Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Factory to Customer => Topic started by: Roger Smith (rogertvr) on February 12, 2003, 04:43:23 AM
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We're going to have to think of a better name for it than that - but for the time being I'll stick with Michael Walker's affectionate suggestion to me!
Paul, I've been having an e-mail conversation this morning with Edwin. Neither of us can decide who your question 'Ed??? Wew. Well tel me in the other dep how you got there!' from the other thread is aimed at. I thought it was aimed at Ed, Ed thought it was aimed at me.
So who's the question aimed at? :-)
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Roger: Fwiw, I inferred that Paul's question was aimed at you, asking how you got yourself hooked up with a certain Mr. Edwin van Huik at the Bass Connection in the Netherlands
And actually, I typo'd that moniker, because I really meant to say Cone-headed Dragon Buzzard (Accipitridae Neoconocephalus Draco )
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I ended-up at Edwin's door simply because he's been the most friendly and helpful of the dealers I have spoken to.
It's delighted Senior Management because it means she'll get a short break in Holland and Belgium out of it!
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That's it - Edwin's confirmed his receipt of my deposit for 'Accipitridae Neoconocephalus Draco'.
Let the show commence!
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Brother Roger,
I guess You lead us all to the wood-bank? Or is that already done?
I have an idea for the peghead.
I've seen somewhere here a cone-shaped peghead that was signficantly narrower than standard on the base it was just a litlle bit wider than the neck. Maybe adding to the special look of the dragon. Kind of spear like?
Paul
BTW: wasn't it Gene Simmons of KISS who had an Alembic bass in the shape of an ax? Brother Dino should know.
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Haven't been to the wood bank yet Paul. Not sure when I'm supposed to go there!
I'm not sure about a narrow cone - I really like the proportion of the standard one, it is a feature of Alembics that I have liked for years and is my favourite Alembic machine head shape.
I remember Simmons' axe-shaped bass - didn't know who made it though.
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Simmons' Axe bass was a Kramer, I believe.
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Hi Roger,
is this maybe an idea for the cone of the peghead?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2510912908&category=2384#DESC (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2510912908&category=2384#DESC)
Could match with the body design?
For the wood I think you should just bump into the Woodbank and start nosing in the piles there. It can give you some ideas.
What about burled Redwood?
Michael, you could be right about that bass. But for some reason I have this picture in my mind Gene playing one of those Axe-basses with 3 PU (it was in the time I was young and innocent and not having heard about a dummy-huncancelling PU). Beware, I just have this picture in my mind and I can be very wll mistaken.
CU
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Hi Paul,
Thanks for the link, that's a sweet looking peghead - I might have to speak to Mica about that! It certainly takes the straight edge off the standard cone.
The wood is going to be coco bolo front and back, as per the Signature Deluxe that the instrument is based on.
I've had a look around the wood pile over the last week or so, I've come to the conclusion that there is nothing in there I'm particularly taken with. As it happens, there is a table in my local pub that has just the type of grain that I'm looking for! The closest picture I have seen to what I want is the Coco Bolo wood on Clay Sharp's '95 King Deluxe.
Mica - is there anything in the wood pile that looks similar to that, both for grain and colour?
Cheers,
Rog
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Rog,
Yep ... I have the feel your bass must have something of a spear because the link with the dragon. The standard cone is too mathematical (for what my opinion is worth).
I have this great idea:
grab a camera,
go to the local pub,
chase the drunks from the famous table
take pictures of it (not from the chasin', from the table!!!)
Do this before YOU get drunk and start spilling pints of ale all over it.
Bring the camera home and not the table!
Next day -after the hang-over and explaining your moves to Senior Management (just say: it was Paul's idea, she'll understand and forgive you anything)- send the pictures to Mica or Valentino ;-)
You could also describe your favorite wood in terms as: high/low contrast, parallel/burling lines, reddish/yellowish.
Just a hint.
Paul
1. I quickly checked Clay's bass. I should say: dark-reddish, lightly burled, low contrast. Hopes this help.
Anyway when Mica feels better I'm shure she or Valentino will help you with this!
2. Talking about dragons and Coco-bolo, have you checked this http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/1459.html?1037581699
?
(Message edited by palembic on February 25, 2003)
(Message edited by palembic on February 25, 2003)
(Message edited by palembic on February 25, 2003)
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I have suggested putting the digital camera to use in the pub - that may well happen!
That 'dragonslayer' is lovely - very nice wood, not dissimilar to Clay's MK.
I'm sure Mica will be most helpful when she is back to full health.
Cheers,
Rog
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Hey Roger,
maybe the pub owner will sell you the table? lol...wouldn't be the first Alembic made with woods furnished by the customer...
About 2 months ago I picked the coco bolo for my latest bass, up at Alembic, and rest assured they have (literally, I believe) a TON of coco bolo to choose from. Took me a while to find one I thought was special, but I did.
If you have any pictures you want Alembic to look at, definitely send them to Mica rather than me. I'd just send them over to her if I got any. Plus I'm just a volunteer, she's the real thing.
take care
Valentino
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Hi Valentino,
I don't like the colour of the wood on the table, just the grain ;-) I really ought to get down the pub and photograph the table - any excuse to get to the pub (not that I normally need an excuse).
I'll have to give Mica some clues so that she can have a root around in the wood pile for me and photograph a few for inclusion in the wood bank.
Do I get to choose two pieces - one for the front and one for the back - or will one piece suffice for front and back of the instrument?
Cheers,
Rog
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Rog,
I chose both sides on my signature, and actually opted for a different looking coco bolo for the back. I could have chosen similar looking pieces for both sides if I had wanted. Some of the wood at times is thick enough to make 4 pieces( 2 per side), at least I think I remember Mica telling me that. The examples in the wood gallery are each good for just one side of the bass. I'm sure Mica will be a great help to you in picking the woods.
Valentino
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Thanks for that Valentino.
I think, if I have the opportunity, I would like the back to be different to the front. Two lots to choose then! Better find another table that I like in the pub :-)
Cheers,
Rog
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Here's the pictures I emailed you earlier today, Roger:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/3887.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/3888.jpg)
I'll see about the upper "bump" and get you a revision if anything looks promising.
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Thanks Mica!
I've had a little e-mail conversation going on with Mica about the design, but I'm not going to tell any of you what has been said because I don't want to lead the jury!
I am open to comments and suggestions on all aspects of this design - so, let me have them please folks!
Cheers,
Rog
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Amazingly, with a HB pencil and some baking parchment, I have managed to come up with a couple of things of my own (I surprise even myself sometimes!). I've tried to get a common theme underway. The upper part of the body above the end of the neck is virtually idential to Susan's drawing, but it is just a little further back and a little lower (it's got the line by it). Working my way down to the the other end of the body (even though it may look like a straight line, it's meant to be a very shallow curve), the bit that goes under my right arm now has a nice curve on it and is meant to represent the dragon's curly flowing back. I hold Susan fully responsible for this, I have used the Chinese dragon inlay to fuel this fire! The bottom of the bass reflects the trailing edge of the dragon's wing. Finally, the part below the end of the neck follows the same line as the end of Susan's peghead. Obviously this design of mine might need balancing up but this is where I'm heading with this project.
Any comments anyone please?(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/3925.jpg)
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Aha ... work to do!
Part of the body: I basically agree. I will load down the picture and see if I can print it. Maybe I can give you some ideas after that.
As for the peghead, I still like the idea of the spear. That could achieved by making a mix of a standard crown peghead and a (narrow) cone. Maybe it's an idea that also for this thing I make a sketch.
Yeeeeeez ... this is gonna be a busy thread. Brother Roger ... you don't have the faintest clue what you started here.
You're gonna be very sorry (BTW ...how sorry can you get??) LOL
Paul (the bad one)
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Thanks for your input Paul. I believe both Mica and Susan will have input to this.
I'm on holiday as of tomorrow and I'm not back until 11 April. So if anyone wants to contribute to this thread, I will pick-up on my return and I'll go from there.
Catch you all soon folks!
Cheers,
Rog
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Hey Roger, Here's some of the newer sketches from my mom's design book:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4565.jpg)
Susan's idea is to incorporate some additional carving on the inner surfaces of some of the curves. It gives somewhat of a beveled look to the shape. She wants to change the interior of the lower left curve and carving some.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4566.jpg)
A bit of a bevel on the peghead shape to tie it all together. Hope you like the direction. I'll be posting some more Coco Bolo tops on Friday or Monday, can you direct me to a photo the has the character of grain you prefer?
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Pardon me as I 'but' in, but has anyone seen Jim Henson's movie, The Dark Crystal? There's something gracefully wicked brewing here. LOL. The peg head could do double duty in realing in guitar players b4 the extended solos take off.
Very niccccccce....
Mike
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Thanks for posting these for me Mica!
My initial reaction is that it's looking fabulous! I've been trying to get the bottom end of the bass revised in my head but this is just fantastic! There is one thing I don't like though - that is the radius of the curve in the bottom left hand corner. I would like that opened out, it looks too pinched up; if it could mirror the curve/claw effect at the far end of the headstock, I think that would be great!
The whole bevelling idea is inspired - I think that will look absolutely stunning, especially if the different layers of wood and therefore different colours are allowed to show through.
Is there an answer yet Mica to my question regarding knob and switch layout?
I will have a hunt around over the weekend to find some wood that I like the grain on. I might just have to go to the Griffin for a pint or four and photograph that certain table!
To everyone who has commented so far - thank you - please carry on, I welcome your comments both good and bad.
Best,
Roger
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Excactly my mom's observation, the lower left curve needs to be opened some to coordinate with the other curves better.
The knob ans switch layout is somewhat flexible, but it really depends on the exact body design, that has to be addressed first unless you have a specific control configuraton then we should be designing the body around that.
Looking forward to the pub table grain pattern and I'll get in the wood pile and find some candidates along the lines you've expressed above.
This is a very exciting project!
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Hi Mica,
Everyone who has seen this design thinks the left bottom curve is too pinched (but that the rest is stunning) - except for Senior Management who thinks the pinched corner gives the bass an edge ('kick ass' I believe the American saying is). However, she's not designing, paying for or playing it, so I'd like to see a version where the radius of that curve is more open. Then I can compare the two. We're close to a final design here!
That said, I don't want to design the shape of the bass around the switch and knob layout - that is secondary as far as I am concerned. Let's worry about that later.
The Griffin table - I'll see if I can get down there over the weekend and find it without various pints of beer spread all over it! Although that may not be necessary now as I have a serious idea about wood requirements in my head. I will e-mail you off the Club about them Mica.
I'm buzzing!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hey Brother Roger, Moder Mica and Sister Susan,
nice piece of work you are brewing together here. Until now it's one of the most fairy designs I've seen on Alembic the last few years. For some reason it reminds me at fairy-tales, legends, old strange weapons, knights and ...dragons.
So ...bull's eye!
Why does this reminds me to Jethro Thull stuff?? Or the Dune movie???
Mmm...
Keep up the good work ..carry-on. There are only a 853 people looking over your shoulders!
LOL
Paul
PS come on Roger. I know it's hard but really you HAVE to go to the pub saturday!! HA!!!
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Here is my own take on opening up the bottom curve a bit (sans bevels, since I am too lazy...)
I really like the dragon claw headstock, but when I tried to incorporate it into this scale drawing, it seemed absolutely puny compared to the body. Rather than fiddle with it, I made a bigger headstock thats a little more buzzard-esque
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4657.jpg)
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That looks really nice, Michael. I even like the way the grain looks on the headstock.
Roger, I have two questions. Where will the strap locks go? And will there be a problem with balance?
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Here's the unpinching from my mom's notebook:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4669.jpg)
I think everyone's on the same page here.
Looks like you've been busy, Michael. I also hear you are drafting a representation of a neck profile. Roger has you hard at work, or is it volunteer work?
I don't think that balance will be problem, Dave, as basses with the upper body half with mass farther from the bridge tend to balance extremely well (like Explorer/Exploiter styles). In fact, those Spyder basses are among the best balanced ones we make. It looks like they shouldn't, but they do.
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Thanks Mica; that's intersting that the Spyder basses are that well balanced.
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Indeed - the mock up tailpiece is the Dragon Wing tailpiece and it matches the Dragon Wing body.
I'll have my mom email you separately on the quote for the replica bass.
(Message edited by mica on October 29, 2003)
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I think that you should have some type of original tailpiece. Roger, you and everyone else have thought too long and hard to have an original product and I think you shouldn't have a standard bar or bird. Having said that I like the Dragon Wing tailpiece, but I imagine it with a hook on each end like the headstock claw. With the strings and the claws on each end and a curve matching the body, it would look like a claw or foot...appropriate for a dragon.
-David
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I've decided that the proposed tailpiece isn't for me (sorry Mica). I find that when I look at the bass with the proposed one on it, I'm looking at the tailpiece, not at the bass. The bird one blends in and doesn't draw my eye.
Unless any other ideas come to light, I think I'm going to go with what I originally wanted - the bird tailpiece (standard size). I don't like the half moon or bar tailpieces, so they're out.
Mica - did you get chance to think about Roger's Layout III for the controls?
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Well ...to complicate the things a little.
What about a tailpiece in the shape of a crescending moon. I know Alembic has a moon tailpiece but (***sigh***) I mean this ). Not 1 side straight and the other curved but BOTH curved, the shap following more or less the border of the bass, like ...well ...euh ....a crescending moon erreuh ...well this ).
Paul the bad one
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That is the only other idea I've had come into my head as well Paul. Is that possible Mica?
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WOW... its a friggin masterpiece, even without a tailpiece! Personally, I'm leaning towards
1) A larger bird
2) Dragon tailpiece
3) NO tailpiece! strings through the body at very low angle, terminating in custom string ferrules angled in the end of the body (not through to the back, just angled through the top into the end, recessed with a very slight dip so you cant see them from the top...)
It wouldnt be quick-change string changes (you'd have to pull the string through) but still.... Whoaaaaaah! eh? Nudge Nudge!!
Its gonna be a beauty no matter how the hardware shakes out!
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Yet another masterpiece from Roger at THG Knobs!
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6617.jpg)
Please ignore the grey reflections on each knob in the picture, they aren't two-tier.
After much too-ing and fro-ing via e-mail with Roger, this is the design we arrived at for the Dragon's Wing knobs.
They are a flame maple body with a snakewood cap. The gold stripes and dots are 22 carat gold.
These will be winging their way to Mica in the next couple of days.
I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank Roger for his endless patience with my endless questions, and also for creating these little beauties!
Cheers!
Rog
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Your idea of Roger's III layout is possible.
Looking forward to seeing those cool knobs in person.
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Further to our conversation and emails, here's the layout for the controls you requested:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6665.jpg)
Just give me the final yes or no on the layout and we'll get the custom harness wired.
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Sorry Mica, that's not quite correct - but it is close. It just needs the pan and the bridge filter knobs swapping with each other.
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Yep, my guess is that Mica just made a mistake in labelling, because I can't believe she'd allow you to have what's diagrammed here (without a lot of discussion...). I looked at it the first time and it just didn't make sense in terms of usability, but swapping those two makes it clear.
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This time for sure:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6675.jpg)
And it's exactly why these pictures are so darned useful. It's much better to discover now.
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That's the one! Thanks Mica. And yes - it's a lot cheaper for you to do these pictures than an awful lot of wiring that turns out to be wrong too!!!
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To Roger at THG....nice, really really nice work on these knobs.
To Rog: When this is all said and done are you actually going to take this bass out of your house without armed guards???
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Stoney, I think Rog is going to buy some nylon stockings ....to put on his bass LOL
Paul the bad one
shhhh - Yes PTGO I KNOW there must be something between me and nylon stockings
(Message edited by palembic on November 12, 2003)
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Roger and I have decided to let the tailpiece have a break until the final assembly. After the pickups and bridge and knobs are installed, I'll place the candidates in place for photos and then Roger can decide what suits him best.
Got the knobs - they look great!
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(psssst, hey Paul, actually it's better if there is NOTHING between you and your stockings )
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Hey, what's up with the bass????
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Hey Stoney,
all ok mate?
I also asked Roger last week about the Dragon.
Seems that there are no news yet.
I am also so eager to see more of this great
instrument.....
Oliver (Spyderman)
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Hey there Oliver.
All is well, thanks. Have a great New year. Are you giggin' on New Year's Eve? I'm just hanging around with some friends, my wife, Brown Bass, Acme x 10 and my EA iAmP800 (400 watts into 1x10...imagine that)
stoney
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Hi Stoney,
all ok on my side.
No we will have some friends tomorrow here to party into the new year.
BTW do you have Johns The Rock CD?
I just received a copy and I am suprised about this. It is really great. OK, half of the songs are not written by John and the CD sounds very 80ies like, but there is some really great bass playing of John on it......
Oliver (Spyderman)
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Rog's bass is in the setup room now. Mike's making the tailpieces this week for a test fitting (sitting on top of the bass for pics) so we can decide with Roger what the best shape will be.
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If you would like to proceed to this month's featured custom, there is something you might just be interested in seeing...
http://www.alembic.com/info/featured_custom.html (http://www.alembic.com/info/featured_custom.html)
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Com'on people ...there is nothing to see here anymore. Dino ...late again ...close the door behind you when you leave, we go to the Featured Custom department, Brother Roger is paying cigars and a beer!!!
Paul the bad one
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Sorry Paul,
I was sleeping off a rough weekend of work. Better late than never though.
Roger, all I can say is Oh My. This is truely a work of art. The elves at Alembic succeeded once again to bring your dreams to reality. That really is a gift!!!!
Chimay and cigars all around!!!!
Oops, forgot to close the door.....
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Rough weekend eeeeh ...
C'mon brother Paul the fake 1.
Tell me all about it!
Don't bother the others they all went to see that Rog-guitar-dragon-thing!
Paul the bad one
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Roger,
I just saw your bass on Superbass. Are you selling it or has another one been made? It's still a great looking bass. I just wish I could afford it. Dreaming...
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Dreamer,
You missed this thread: Dragon Wing II (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=2838)
They made THREE dragon wings, Rog got the deluxe custom one with the dragon FB inlay, Superbass Steve Frank got the mid-spec one, and Bass Central got the budget one (Spider Ollie bought it). You'll notice I used quote marks because there is no such thing as a substandard or low-budget Alembic, just varying degreees of expensive, more expensive, and unbelievably expensive.
Cheers
Kevin
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Update on Dragon Wings
The UK distributor just picked up Dragon # IV, a Deluxe Quilted Maple front and back. I hear he sold it while it was under construction. The new owner also has Spyders in his collection as well.
Beaver at Bass Central has reordered a Dragon for store stock, look for it maybe by the end of September.
-susan
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Looks like the Dragon Wing design is going to be a big hit!!! I see a limited edition run in the future....
Oxnac (a la Carson's Carnac)
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He sees a limited edition in the future...
Ed McMannhollis
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I forgot about the British one with the maple top...any chance of getting you guys to post some pix of the thing?
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Seems these Dragons are breeding ;-)
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Maybe so, but yours will be tough to top, Mate!
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I'm sure someone will at some point!
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Hmmmmm...I wonder what one of these babies would look like as a scaled down 6-string guitar? LOL!
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Pretty smart I would have thought!
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Click below to see the Quilt Maple version:
/topurl{http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/9431.html?1096409250 (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8647), click here}
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We're getting there folks! I thought the original drafts of this instrument were stunning, but it's gone well beyond that now!
Firstly, I would like to thank everyone at Alembic for making this happen, and for their endless patience with my continual questions!
Secondly, I'd like to thank Michael for going to the time and trouble to do what he has done with the design in that picture of his! Senior Management has just seen all of these drawings. Now her jaw is currently dragging along the floor and she's making funny coo-ing noises and yabbering on about how beautiful it is!!!!!!
There are two things I would like to do now please, Mica.
1). The part of the curve that sits under the player's right arm (that is above the bridge in Michael's drawing) - can that be shallowed out please so that it's not as tall? It still has a slight step in it that I'd like to remove (i.e. so that that curve is similar to the picture I posted on 22 March) that I've only just noticed.
2). Any chance the whole instrument can be shown please (as Michael has done) in a drawing with Susan's Dragon Claw headstock (as posted on 01 May) attached to the end of the neck? I'd like to have the opportunity to possibly review the headstock in relation to the body of the instrument please. Michael's headstock is a right vicious affair - getting some stress out there were you Michael? ;-)
To answer Dave's question - I had anticipated that the straplocks would go in the end of the bump above the neck (sorry - I don't know what the proper names are for these parts of the instrument) and in the second curve from the top at the rear of the instrument, probably pointing down towards the floor somewhat. Mica has probably got a completely different idea to this - I'm looking for a 2:30 playing position, so whatever accomodates that will be fine by me!
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Here's the drawing you and my mom talked about this morning:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4860.jpg)
You can discuss any fine details tomorrow. Drop her an email with comments and a good time for her to reach you by phone to finalize the design.
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The people who have seen this today have been stunned by it. Comments like 'That is gorgeous', 'awesome', 'yes, that is very nicely balanced - no harsh parts at all', 'priceless'. Senior management thinks 'it's lovely'.
My own reaction to seeing this drawing? Astonishment! Susan has modified the curve above the bridge pick-up just as I had in mind, and modified the access to the body-end of the neck so that I'll be able to reach the bottom frets more easily.
I don't think I've got too much more to say on the subject at the moment. I'll contact both Mica and Susan via e-mail a little later today but I think that e-mail is going to say 'Build it please'.
I'm grinning ear to ear!
Cheers,
Rog
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We're all sharing that grin man!!! Bass history in the make!!!
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Wow! thats going to be MAGNIFICENT!!!
Quick, to the bat-cave!
(er... the wood-bank!)
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Upon your approval, Mike has proceeded with the templates and fabricated this sample body. The front of the body in this image used a 1/8" roundover along the bottom edge and a 1/4" around the rest. The bevels are shaped by hand:
[img">http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4944.jpg[/img]
After studying the look, we decided it needed a bit more, and we proceeded to a 1/2" all around roundover:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4945.jpg)
The backside which uses a 3/4" roundover all around for comfort.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4946.jpg)
Detail of the lower edge:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4947.jpg)
The sample body is fashioned from scrap woods (note the top isn't bookmatched). The Signature Deluxe model usually comes with an 1/8" accent laminate, while this sample uses 2 veneers like a Europa. I'm not too sure what you meant by "coffee table" when referring to the recent Coco Bolo additions to the Wood bank. I thought the
Title: Re: Rog's 'Conehead Dragon Buzzard'
Post by: rogertvr on June 10, 2003, 04:41:27 AM
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Look at those curves!! I can close my eyes and feel those under my fingers...
One thing I'd like to point out Mica is that my order was for a deluxe purpleheart neck. Has that been ignored for this sample body or has it been overlooked altogether? It doesn't matter for the sample obviously, however it does matter for the finished instrument!
I sent the URL of this thread to a few friends for them to look at and I've been mobbed with phone calls for the last half an hour. It would seem that people are now in two camps:-
1). The original bunch who thought that it was a great idea and still do,
2). The other original bunch who thought I was barking mad who now think it's a great idea!
A few years ago we had a coffee table at home and one of those samples of coco bolo (not the unusual dark top) reminded me of that coffee table (which I hated with a passion). Mica - could I please trouble you to overlay the outline of this Dragon's Wing over the unusual dark top (I was thinking digitally rather than for real) so that I can have a look at it? I think I can see where you're coming from with that piece of wood, so I'd like the opportunity to consider it. Did you have front or back in mind when you said that piece of wood would look really nice with this design?
I think the 1/8 standard Signature accent laminate will work extremely well with this shape! I like the bevels and the curves as shown on this sample. I think you were right about the sample first time - it needed more but the second one, to my mind, is very right.
I'm also trying to imagine the Chinese Dragon inlaid down the fretboard. Even seeing this sample, I can't imagine how incredible the beauty of this instrument is going to be when it's complete.
I'm stunned (in the best possible way of course)!
Cheers,
Rog
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I've just read another thread about Roger and the THG custom knobs. Mica - I might consider a set of these for the Dragon's Wing. I assume we can discuss this a little further down the line? Or do I need to progress it now?
Thanks,
Rog
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Okay, so where does the bidding start for the scrap wood sample prototype???
Rog, this bass is going to be absolutely amazing. It's a wonderful thing that Mica has this club up so that we can all share in this creative process. Thanks!!!
C-Ya...........wayne
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The sample was fashioned from scrap woods, it's not meant to be a preview of anything other than the overall shape in 3D. I checked your order sheet, and it includes a 7-piece Deluxe Purpleheart and Maple neck, and that will of course be used on your actual bass.
3120 isn't long enough to yield a top and back for your design (it is rather large compared to some other shapes we make. We'll have some more bookmatches up later in the week, and perhaps we'll find a good mate for 3120 or something else that will be appropriate. As for a digital overlay, that's actually not a small amount of work to make it anything close to accurate. Let's find a good canidate for the top and back before we think about doing something like that.
I think that if we decide by the time the bass enters spray that we won't be waiting for the knobs at the end. It's a good idea for you to look at Roger's website and get an idea for shapes and designs. Do you want the knobs to stand out or be more subtle?
Wayne, it might make a nice clock or something, I'm afraid the neck ends about 3 inches past the top edge of the picture, so it sure won't sound very good.
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That's just sad.....it never even had a chance at life.... :-(
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LOL @ Wayne!! Don't be sad Wayne - get Mica to make a clock out of it for you!!
I understand about the digital overlay Mica. I'm more than happy to wait until some more bookmatches are available for perusal before putting you to the trouble of a digital overlay. I thought it might be five minutes work for you, but it's not by the sounds of it!!
Knobs - I had a quick look at Roger's website earlier today. I can't decide whether I want them to stand out or be more subdued. How long before it enters spray Mica? I think I would like to choose the wood before deciding on the knobs. Also, I'd like the answer to the question I posed ages ago about knob position if possible, now that the body shape is finalised. That question is - do the knobs have to form a square or can they follow the bottom line of the body up in a curvey line of four, with the two Q switches above the knobs?. The answer to this question and the pros and cons of either knob arrangement will help me decide what I want to do regarding knob shape/colour etc.
Cheers,
Rog
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...
Paul the bad-and-now-speechless-one
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Peghead samples:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4972.jpg)
Brace yourself Wayne, this too was salvaged from the scrap pile. Here's the whole shebang:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4971.jpg)
Enjoy! (Message edited by mica on June 11, 2003)
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Poor Wayne...that's going to make some clock Wayne!!!!!!
Mica, a question for you please...are the two bottom curves on the peghead bevelled off, and if so, by how much? It's a little difficult to see in the picture.
Also Mica, I've contacted Roger about some knobs, just to run some ideas past him really more than anything else. I'll let everyone know what is said when he replies to me.
Thanks,
Roger
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P.S. Forgot to say - it looks stunning!!!!!
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How does a neck that close to complete get relegated to the scrap pile?
Or have you just stacked various pieces together making it appear to be complete?
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Unfortunately Wayne, it looks like your clock will be missing the Chinese Dragon fretboard inlay ;-)
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Here's a picutre with the contrast changed and a marking to illustrate the peghead:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/4974.jpg)
The form is very similar to the previous line art from May 1.
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Thanks Mica. I think I would like to exaggerate the largest of the two bevels a little more and the smallest of the two bevels just a touch more. They look a little weak and indistinct to me at the moment. Is that possible please or does changing it commit me to the latter of the two designs?
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Magnificent!!! (I can't think of a better word)
It now seems to have subtlely morphed into exactly what nature intended. IMHO this bass has Featured Custom written all over it...
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Featured Custom - now, that would about make my life I think, never mind my day!
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Definitely yes - it's so unusual, so outstanding, it just has to be the Featured Custom as soon as it's finished! :-)
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Just a small side point... Featured Custom is not supposed to be a competition. I happen to agree that this one is sufficiently unique that it would provide a great example of the kinds of things Alembic can do, and my guess is it most likely will show up there eventually.
But at the same time, you could just as well go to the Alembic Store page, pick out a standard model on which they'd used some special wood or perhaps thrown in a small electronics upgrade, and justifiably feature it.
And I recall a conversation last fall with Mica (Susan may have also been there, I forget), in which one of the considerations was that it might be nice to feature something with fall colors around Thanksgiving (aka Autumn's Delight), and perhaps a hint of green around Christmas (Flight of Fancy)... so the selection of the winner may be a bit more subjective or obscure than you might imagine.
All I'm suggesting is that while enthusiasm and excitement is great, it would perhaps be a mistake (for any of us) to open the door to even the slightest potential for disappointment - feeling that your bass is somehow less worthy, or your love for it any less - if it didn't happen to get featured. They're all pretty amazing instruments, and only so many months in a year.
(On the plus side, of course, it does save you the trouble of posting pictures yourself...).
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...
PTBO-and still more speechless
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Hi Mica,
Any news on where we are at with this little project please?
Thanks,
Rog
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little
HA!
Paul the bad one
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Hi Roger,
Here's the update you've been waiting for:
We've completed the templates for the body and peghead. The neck is in the press. I had been waiting for the ideal piece of wood for this project. This is not so easy a task for this size and shape of body. I believe I have the ideal piece that you will like. I actually have two boards for you to choose from. Mica is out of the office today but when she returns tomorrow, she'll take pictures and post them for your viewing pleasure. They have aspects of the wood that Michael pictured on his mockup May 9th post. The front and back can be made from the same board. Once you make your wood decision, you may have your bass in time for All Hallow's Eve!
From: DRAGONS R US ( Susan)
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Uh.
Ah.
Um.
Oh.
Ahhh.
OH!
WOW!
I just ran across this thread, and I must say that I just don't have words to describe how unbelievably cool I think this design is!
It's definately got Alembic lines (but of course!), and it's also reminiscent of a Spyder in the way it looks like it will balance.
Dragon's Wing...I really like that too.
Knobs...I don't think it needs knobs, I think it needs claws...or teeth. Or maybe scales. Hrmm, scales. I wonder what a dragon's scale would look like...something rumbling in D minor perhaps?
My only question would be: Where would the other 4 tuners go if I ordered an 8-string version of the Roger's Dragon Mk I Series II
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Hi Susan,
Thanks for the update! I'll look for the wood once Mica has had a chance to take photos of it and I'll let you know. As it would seem that both you and I are singing from the same hymn sheet with this little project, I suspect that one (or both) of the pieces of wood that you have in mind will be fine.
Scrub has raised an interesting point - what would happen with 5 and 6 string versions of the Dragon's Wing too? I suspect that you might be selling a few more of these over the coming years. Do I get a percentage of the profits? ;-)
You may have noticed that I've been asking questions about control knobs in Randy's thread (sorry Randy - didn't mean to try and hijack it).
Originally I had this idea about a radically different layout for the knobs and switches. I think I'm going to bin that and stick with the grouping as standard on the Mark King model (although I haven't fully made-up my mind yet). I like the idea of having all of the controls close to each other. I'm going to be contacting Roger at THG again very shortly, so that I can progress a set of knobs for this instrument.
Regarding the actual controls themselves (as also detailed in Randy's thread), I am assuming that I get a master volume, a pan, two filters and two Q switches? That's what I would like anyway. Actual layout of the controls we can discuss in due course.
Looking forward to seeing that lovely wood!
Cheers,
Rog
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Hi Roger,
Now that Mica has posted the wood in the Wood Bank section, I need to tell you which is my favorite for this project.
Susan's Picks
#1 is 3123 Mask
#2 is 3124 Ebb & Flow
These two pieces lend themselves to the unusual body shape of the Dragons Wing. After all it doesn't matter how beautiful the piece of wood is if in order to make the instrument the nicest part becomes waste material ( don't cry Wayne)
Susan
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Hi Susan,
I like the look of 3123 Mask - strangely enough, I chose that one in the first place when I saw them on Friday for the first time.
I think maybe we should experiment with the orientation with the wood and see how it looks. I really like the way it has colour change and different shapes and grains in it.
You could always make a couple of clocks out of the waste material - one for Wayne and one for me!
Thanks for everything so far!
Rog
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Roger-
Unfortunately there is not much we can do in the way of orientation of the wood. This body shape Dragon Wing as in the Exploiter body requires such a wide piece of lumber that the options become limited as to what choice of wood can be used as well as how it can be laid out. We will use our best judgement to take advantage of the woods most interesting grain patterns in respect to the body shape.
So at this point I have the neck in the press and would like to get onto the business of constructing the body next week. Just trust that it will be awesome.
Susan
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Thanks for your reply Susan.
I was just looking at all potential options - if they're not possible, I'm quite happy to be lead by what you say and I trust you implicitly!
Cheers,
Rog
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Here's the result of the judgement:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6037.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6038.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6039.jpg)
None of the additional carving details are added at this point (the "bevels" of the body or peghead), but I think you tell this is really shaping up nicely.
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i'm proboly never going to even se this bass in person... but i bet i'm anticipating it as much as anyone else. this looks like its going to be great. congrats roger, its a winner!!!
~adam
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Roger,
I start to get jealous...
Many greetings from two friends,
Spyder 4 and Spyder 8
Oliver Baumann
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Wow!! Thanks for posting the pics Mica, I am especially pleased with the way that the grain in the wood fits with the shape of the body.
I'm somewhat stunned to be honest and lost for words!!
Thanks for everyone's kind sentiments so far :-)
Rog
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...
Paul the bad one
(these posts are easy ...I can stay speechless LOL)
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Now the Dragon Wing has enough spray to start in on the inlay. Here's some pictures with finish:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6307.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6308.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6309.jpg)
I'll take lots of nice pictures of the inlay process.
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The first part of the inlay to decide is the placement of the inlaid logo. This logo was prepared for another bass and is used for placement only:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6311.jpg)
Position 1
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6312.jpg)
Position 2
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6313.jpg)
Position 3 Do you have a preference, Roger, or shall we decide the orientation?
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I've been off work today (unwell) and won't be in tomorrow either (can't see this clearing up overnight). So I just thought I'd check in here on my way to bed - it's STUNNING, there is no other word for it! Thanks so much for the pics, Mica!!!!!!!!
Question for you Mica - on the first picture of the bass you've posted, in the bottom left hand corner of the body there appears to be a red mark - what's that?
Position 1 for the logo please!
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Hey Rog,
this one will become a classic!
Really jelous man!
Take care
Oliver
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...
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Roger,
I'm not sure why that spot in the picture came out so red; there is no spot on the bass itself, i just doublechecked; the third picture is more indicative of what the bass looks like. I think the lighting in the hall Mica took the picture in might have something to do with it.
The bass looks amazing in person, however good, pictures simply don't do it justice. Now it's down to the inlays, and then...it can fly home.
Valentino
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I think the spot you're referring to is a reflection of me and my camera.
Will give James the instructions on the logo placement and he'll get that finished in a day or two.
Hope you're feeling better soon.
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Roger,
I was at the Alembic factory on Friday, and Valentino showed me your bass...needless to say it was breathtaking in person! He heald it up like he wanted me to take it, but I was afraid that would be when fate would strike me and make me drop it :-0
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Thanks for the info folks! I'm not feeling any better but I thought I'd drop in here and cheer myself up :-)
Ken - you should have taken the opportunity to hold it - you'll probably never get the chance again.
Every time I look at those pictures I see something else in the wood grain that just adds to the character - it's phenomenal!
As Roger at THG is building knobs for it, when will they be required by?
Cheers!
Rog
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Rog,
I think you are not able to sleep well at night
(wet dreams? :-) )
I hope that I will see the Dragon one day in reality during our european Alembic meeting.
Take care
Oliver
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There's a good chance of you seeing it Oliver!
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We won't need the knobs for at least a month, we're just getting started on the fingerboard inlay.
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That's great Mica, thanks for letting me know!
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Rog,
That bass is lookin' SWEEEEET!
Regards,
Stoney
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Got your email today about control layout. Here's the mock up Dragon Wing with the standard control layout:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6374.jpg)
I think I understood from your email that you want to change the pan and volume positions:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6375.jpg)
Is my understanding correct? Also, how do you like the proposed tailpiece shape?
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I reread your email, now I think this is what you were askign about:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6377.jpg)
I'll check with my dad to see if there is adequate room to put a filter where the pan control usually is.
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Phew - you have been busy whilst I've been in the pub, Mica!
Roger's Layout II is what I was trying to describe. However, can you tell me if Roger's Layout and / or Roger's Layout II is possible please Mica? Then I will choose which layout I would like - I can see the benefits of all three. At least if I have a choice, then I can have a think - when do I need to make up my mind by?
Tailpiece - let me have a think about please. I'll let you know tomorrow.
Cheers,
Rog
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I can't make up my mind about the suggested tailpiece shape. Would it be possible Mica for you to take a picture of the DW with a brass bird tailpiece in situ please, so that I have something to compare the suggested one against?
Thanks!
Rog
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Maybe the old moustache tailpiece???
(Message edited by palembic on October 23, 2003)
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Roger, will this bass fit in your TVR with the top up, what kind of case will you get for the Buzzard, Hard shell or Anvil.
David T
PS; I still want to go for a ride in your car
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Nah, no way this will fit in the TVR. I'm not sure it'll fit in my other car either!!!!!
I believe Mica is sorting the case out - I've paid for one already through the dealer I ordered it through - don't know what it is though.
Next time you're in the area, I'll gladly take you out as long as it's dry. The TVR is a massive handful to drive quickly in the wet and snow and ice are a strict no-no!!!!!
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thanks Roger, someday I will take you up on that offer, your Buzzard will be the best looking and sounding buzzard in the world !!!!
David T
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Here's the photos you requested:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6463.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6464.jpg)
Note the first tailpiece is a mockup made from MDF while the second is an actual tailpiece made in brass.
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Can I just clarify please Mica that the top picture is the proposed shape (in MDF) and the bottom one is an actual brass bird tailpiece?
Thanks!
Rog
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You are correct, Roger. The top tailpiece is a mock up of the new proposed shape, the bottom picture is an actual bird tailpiece as is found on the Signature model.
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To my eye, the bird tailpiece looks a little lost on that bass. I like the mock-up, mostly. Ideally, I'd like the two front edges to curve in a little more - is that possible?
What was the verdict from your dad regarding being able to move the knobs round in the electronics cavity?
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I've got another question for you Mica - the proposed bridge shape - is it symmetrical? Or is the top part of it longer than the bottom?
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Not really possible to curve the edge facing the bridge in anymore, the strings need some brass to retain against. It's a little hard to see in the photo, but the E string slot comes as close as is comfortable to the edge. Look at the electronics layout photos, you can see the string slots a little better there.
It's absolutely not symmetrical, the bass side of the tailpiece is longer to follow the shape of the body.
As far as layout II it will work, but will require 1 hour additional labor to rewire the Q switch for the neck pickup so far away from the control.
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Thanks again for your reply, Mica.
Controls - I'll have a think about it and I'll post a reply here, probably tomorrow. Your suggestion (Roger Layout) I hadn't previously considered and it's got me thinking about my own proposed layout.
Tailpiece - I like symmetry. That's fine coming from me with the design of this bass isn't it? However, I think that as the bridge, the pick-ups, the stripes thru the neck and the knobs are all (or will be) uniform shapes, that the tailpiece should be uniform too. Which brings me to my next question...
Is it possible to have a slightly scaled up version of the bird tailpiece? Or....a symmetrical version of the proposed tailpiece?
Thanks!
Rog
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The bottom contour of the bass isn't bi-laterally symmetrical, so the Dragon tailpiece (the proposed shape) will not look nice if it is completely symmetrical.
A larger handmade bird tailpiece is certainly possible. Will be two hours of shop time for Mike to make for you.
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I'll have to put some thought into this tailpiece. Does anyone else have any comments? I'd welcome some additional input into this if anyone has got anything to say.
Thanks!
Rog
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Mica - another control layout question for you. Would it be possible to amend Roger's Layout to form Roger's Layout III? What I had in mind is swapping the pan and neck filter with each other, and then swapping the volume and bridge filter with each other. Q switches stay as is.
Can you let me know if this is possible please?
Thanks!
Rog
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I think the bird tailpiece looks much too civilized on this monster. There probably isn't enough space for the Spyder tailpieces, right? Perhaps the bar, or a variation on the half-moon? It needs to look sharp, like the asymmetrical one but then more pointy.
(Message edited by adriaan on October 29, 2003)
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Rog,
may I put in another suggestion?
Adriaan spoke about the Spyder tailpieces
and I also think, that these are too long for
the Dragon. But John had on his original Spyders shorter ones, which are approx. half the length of the long ones on the Spyders.
Think about this, if you want I can email you some pics. I think that these shorter single tails would look great on your dragon.
Oliver
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Ok, since you asked . Of course this is a matter of individual taste and each person's view is as valid as another's; and it is yours that is the deciding factor. I agree with Roger on the symetry of the tailpiece with the bridge and pickups. And I agree with Mica that the proposed Dragon shape would not work if it is symetrical with the bridge; and I think the reason is its size and proximity to the curved edge of the body. Because of its size and winged shape, it is necessarily closer to the edge and the relationship between its contour and the contour of the body becomes more apparent. At first I agreed with Roger's observation that the bird tailpiece looked lost on the bass, dwarfed. However, now I'm thinking that if the bridge and pickups were in place in the picture, the bird would not seem dwarfed at all but would appear right at home next to the bridge. I'm also wondering if perhaps the bar tailpiece might be a good choice for this application since it would nail down the symetry with the bridge and be substantial enough not to be dwarfed.
Dave
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Yes please to the pics Oliver, if you could.
To everyone else - my brain is now working overtime, please keep the views and observations coming!
Rog
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Rog, here they come:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6494.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6495.jpg)
As shown the tails on Johns basses (except the V-head and the V-bass) are significantly shorter than on the Spyders). What do you think\? Oliver
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This one goes way over the top, but there's no harm in fantasizing -
Think of a dragon's claw clasping the bottom end of the neck-through. Now morph that claw to the hand in the Alembic logo. See if you can fit in more of the logo, perhaps as an appendix. Or have it melt like Dali's watches.
Now back to work.
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One of what Adriaan's been smoking please ;-)
Thanks for the pictures Oliver. I like the short tailpiece in the left hand picture. Perhaps Mica could tell us all if there is room for that on the Dragon's Wing?
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Hi Rog,
you?re welcome. I also like this.
I think it would look great.
Maybe Mica can tell if this would work; I don?t
know why they changed the design from short to long back then.
Maybe they could do different ones following the curve? Two longer in the outer position and two shorter in the inner position?
Man this is really making sense.
I feel like it would be my own bass project....
Oliver
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Sorry, double posted.
Oliver
(Message edited by senmen on October 29, 2003)
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Well, I live in the right country for what you suppose I'm smoking. But I don't smoke. Anything. At all. Convinced? No, you're not. But I don't. - Well, I hope that has cleared the air (waves his arms like a madman, grins like a bassplayer).
It's just that no one seems to have thought much about a fitting tailpiece for the Dragon Wing before the instrument was nearly complete!
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I like Olivers idea of two different lengths. Of course, the technicalities of this idea lie with Mica.
Adriaan - I believe you! You also seem to have a point about the tailpiece - I was set on a bird tailpiece until I saw it on the picture Mica posted, and now it doesn't look right...obviously someone at Alembic has been thinking about this too to have decided to create an MDF mock-up tailpiece.
This is all very interesting!!
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Rog,
can you phone me up?
0049-211-41854413
Oliver
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Oliver's idea is BRILLIANT.
If you want it a little less symmetrical, you could also have the longer ones on the E and A strings, and the shorter ones on the D and G.
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For what its worth, I also really like Oliver's idea; short and long. Perhaps they could be positioned in a slightly staggered fashion to echo the trailing edge of the claw. Also like the wooden mock-up from Mica's post of 10/27. So many things to think about, but at least these are pleasant conundrums ;-)
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Here's another hair-brained thought...expanding on Oliver's idea, could the ends be tapered to look like a dragon's talons?
I also like Adriaan's suggestion of a modified, half-moon tailpiece.
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I like the dragon talon idea. You could merge the Entiwistle tailpiece and the dragon idea by doing that. Maybe make little dragon talons on the end with wood they have lying around. Of course its not my money or effort building this.
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Here's some pictures that may clear a few things up:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6506.jpg)
1.54 inches available space.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6507.jpg)
1.43 inches available space
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/6508.jpg)
crammed to the block route, the hanging Spyder tailpiece. I don't think we can make an individual tailpiece with two anchor screws (required) in this small available space. Not that we don't usually like the tailpiece smashed right against the bridgeblock so the practical space available is about a 1/4 inch less. The bottom center scallop is so near to symmetrical that a symmetrical tailpiece that stays close to the edge will probably look crooked. With just over a tenth of an inch difference between the two sides, I'm afraid that staggered length tailpieces will look more like a mistake. My vote is for the Dragon Wing tailpiece. I think it's the least distracting of any of the choices so far since it echoes the shape of the body and doesn't look like something just stuck on it. But that's just my opinion. The finished tailpiece will have the slope like the bird (when viewed from the edge), the mock up is for footprint only.
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You can always trust Mica for a scientific, balanced view of things! :-)
By the Dragon's Wing tailpiece Mica, are you referring to the MDF mock-up?
(Message edited by rogertvr on October 29, 2003)
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P.S. Mica
That picture Oliver has published of one of John's basses - how much would that cost to build?