Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Factory to Customer => Topic started by: mica on January 26, 2006, 02:58:13 PM
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We received this bass at the very end of last year, and have been thinking of ways to repair it. This is bass 73-30, and it spent some time underwater after a hurricane. It is pretty badly damaged as you would expect.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/24544.jpg)
Most obvious is the body laminations separating:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/24545.jpg)
Kinda funky around the jacks:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/24546.jpg)
Of course the bridge suffered some corrosion:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/24547.jpg)
The plates need some help:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/24548.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/24549.jpg)
Peghead doesn't look bad from the front:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/24550.jpg)
But on the back, the veneers are separating, though not really visible in this picture:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/24551.jpg)
It's really hard to see how the neck shrunk in a picture, but here's a try:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/24552.jpg)
So we've got several ideas on what to do here. I wish it never happened style: 1. replace the neck 2. saw the body apart, smooth gluing surfaces and add an accent laminate to make up the thickness 3. clean up the brass 4. refinish in oil 5. repair electronics I'm pretty sure we have a Maple/Purpleheart neck from 1976 that we could use on this project. We'd have to make a new neck to use the same woods as the original. Hurricane tribute style: 1. smooth the neck for playing 2. glue and clamp peghead joint 3. inject epoxy where the body lams are separating, but leave the separation as part of the history of the bass 4. clean up hardware to useable condition 5. repair electronics At least one person here wants to leave it alone, mount it like a trophy fish and leave it as a decoration. I personally vote for the first option, but you'll have to decide how aggressive you want us to be on the repair, Michael. It won't ever be the same, but we can make it a functioning part of your musical life again.
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My vote would be for the Hurricane tribute, provided it won't affect playability in any severe fashion.
We all carry our scars, right?
Brad
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Sigh ...
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Michael:
I saw you bass today while visiting at Alembic. What a trip! I thought it came through surprisingly well, considering the extended bath. If it were mine, I'd probably go the hurricane tribute route. It sort of reminds me of a number of years ago when I saw an ad for Mesa Boogie that depicted (I believe it was) Mac Davis' amp that survived the MGM Grand fire in Las Vegas, looked like hell, but still worked. Even with all the damage, it is still a very cool looking bass. I love the old ones.
Bill, tgo
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Of course I would like to see it perfect again, but I would hate for it to turn into George Washington's hatchet.
I wish there was some way to resurrect it without replacing the neck. I know, that was an option in the tribute style. I just thought it could be sanded down and then the gaps glued and clamped around the body. I guess that would be tough though! I just was hoping the damage would not be visible. Oh well.
Any more votes on the tribute style? Wish it never happened?
Hindsight being 20/20, I know that this will not happen again! I have been through many hurricanes and have prepared better in the past. Next time ALL of the instruments are coming with us.
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Hey! Just curious, do the electronics still work? I never tested it before I shipped it.
Michael
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My vote is for hurricane tribute style. Otherwise, you've pretty much replaced it with a new bass. Ultimately, if it's possible to saw it apart and do everything listed in the I Wish It Never Happened Style EXCEPT don't do a *new* neck and instead keep the old neck, then that would get my vote. Something of this sort was done on 811952 way back in the day (although they put a whole new body on my neck instead of reusing the unusable original body wood) and it worked out well. Regardless of what you ultimately decide, it's an incredible bass with an incredible history. I can only wish everyone else in your home town had fared so well. Glad you and it are still with us.
John
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Condolences seem to be flowing freely this month. Michael, I hope this was the worst of what you had to face. Good luck with the restoration!
-Bob
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Michael, I think the question has to come down to your intentions for the instrument. If it is a sentimental piece to be more cherished and displayed than played, I would lean toward keeping it as original as possible. If, on the other hand, you're planning on it being a serious player's instrument again, then I would take the advice of the Wickersham family in preserving as much as possible while returning it to top playing condition. I am afraid that would be the replacement neck route.
If it were mine, I'd take the tribute route. If I wanted a playable bass, 70's vintage instruments come available regularly for less than it would likely cost to go the full restoration route.
Just my opinion, follow your heart.
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Michael,
It occurs to me that quite probably it will still be imminently playable if you do nothing more than fix the electronics, squirt some glue under the headstock lams and tweak the neck with some heat. That would make it truly a historical piece. Like Bob said, though, follow your heart. None of us can even remotely second-guess whatever you decide, especially given your well-documented commitment to these early instruments.
It also occurs to me that if it were mine I'd really be tempted to play it out every chance I had, in as close of condition to it's present state as possible. A friend of mine has a huge (5/8th's) German upright that survived a couple of world wars, albeit with some significant burn marks. It is the absolute coolest bass I've ever touched, and it has been on fire.
john
(Message edited by 811952 on January 26, 2006)
(Message edited by 811952 on January 26, 2006)
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i vote tribute. to be honest, i love the way the finish on the bridge and tailpiece has changed. the green and gold of the tarnished brass look old and strong.
(Message edited by bigideas on January 26, 2006)
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Oh, I probably would break down and at least change the strings though...
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Definitely Hurricane tribute. Replacing the neck to me makes it an different instrument. I wouldn't do it. So sorry Michael, I love the old ones too.
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flaxs 2 cents....
i would ebony fill the joints in - sand the neck, fix the back
replace the rusty screws and remove just the rust off the bridge at the base- the saddles etc LEAVE
- the bridge and tailpiece esp should stay as is,.,they're PATINATED PIECES- us stain glass guys kill for that color green- i think i might replace the plate in the center, but would leave the back- it has character- makes it looked very aged,
replace the electrronics...
all yours for $29.95.......
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I vote for Hurricane tribute also. I wouldn't care if they took it all apart and put it back together but using all the same pieces as much as possible. It would make a great story and a priceless heirloom.
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You could probably get a million dollars for it on E-Bay right now.
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I hate to ramble, but I just looked at the showcase and saw what this bass looked like to start with:
http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/2435.html?1084807001 (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8494)
Wow.
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Brother Michael
...good to hear from you. If you still have the samenumber: you will have me on the phone one of these days for a homecoming chat (btw: did the alligators in your backyard return too???)
About this bass ...I'd like to share a story with you all.
It will take some time so please sit back and relax if you want to read it. It has NOTHING to do with basses but my point will become clear soon enough (hehehehe ...I DO hope).
This goes back to the period that I was a video producer.
I was asked by the conservator Piet Chielens of the In Flanders Field Museum in Ieper (most Americans, Aussies and Great Commonwealth people will know it as 'Ypres') to make a documentary on how to handle in an appropriate way the demolition or loss of a city.
I was a little puzzled when he asked but he asked me on an evening to his place and over some whiskies he told me A Tale of three ...four ?five ?whatever Cities.
1. The Ypres case:
as you probably know the town of Ieper in the Western part of Flanders (near the French border there) was completely demolished after World War I. No stone was left upon the other and as was said a horseman could oversee the total town from the back of his horse'.
A lot of British gave their lives in that severe part of the this war and their was the strong claim of the British government to leave the town as it was ...in ruins. They asked to build a wall around it and keep it as a symbol for all the casualties fallen there and as an sign of honour for England (there was a young parliament member those days Winston Churchill -who fought the trenches of Ieper- who would liked it thatr way).
The Belgian government couldn't live with such a symbol and they would give the town back to the people who lived there before and wipe the memory out. There was an architect asked to rebuild the town. Alas ...the architect was so full of ideas that he reconstructed a town that never has been in the past. He reconstructed he 'medieval look alike' town that has never been there. Ironically: historical research proved that just a FEW of the original people of Ieper came back to their town. The majority was fled to other towns in Flanders and started a new life during the war to forget what happened. Ieper became populated by adventurers and thos who had lost their live on other places.
The Commonwealth War Grave Commission received pieces of land to organize war graves for the fallen soldies, the county of West Flanders is littered with wargraves and EACH of them is official BRITISH territory. Most known is the War Cemetry of Passendale. Please visit www.inflandersfields.be (http://www.inflandersfields.be)
Today there is only ONE (just 1) trace of a shell impact visible in the town of Ieper, in a monastery wall behind the church. The town is rebuild to a copy of itself that never was or has been.
2. The Oradour-sur-Glane case
Oradour is a small French town near Poitiers.
As a revenge for being attacked by the French resistance, a batallion of SS-Tiger Tanks and SS troups entered the morning of 10 june 1944. All inhabitants were brought together in the church and slaughtered and the Tiger tanks raged through the town shooting and destroying.
After these horrible happenings it seemed that NO ONE would touch the town anymore; nor Germans, nor French, nor resistance, nor Vichy-France, After the war the local authorities would love to start levelling the village and rebuild a new one.
General Charles De Gaulle forbided personally to move one stone in that town. A wall was erected round Oradour and until today you can visit the town as a most macabre testimonial of the horrors of war.
(http://alembic.com/club/messages/631/24563.jpg)
3. The Coventry Case
German air raids in WW II were also aimed at civil objectives: towns, cathedrals etc. The cathedral of Coventry was heavy bombed and demolished for a great part.
(http://alembic.com/club/messages/631/24564.jpg)
The British government decided to build a new cathedral but ?functionally interweave the ruins of the old cathedral in the highly modern one that was to be build. Old is cherished in new, memories kept by moving on to something new but ?with respect to the the functionality of the place: a house of God and forgiveness. Please see here http://www.know-britain.com/churches/coventry_cathedral_1.html (http://www.know-britain.com/churches/coventry_cathedral_1.html)
I will stop here.
My friend Piet told me that evening also about the fourth city Hiroshima where just the ?Dome? left completely intact after the first atom bomb. And about a fifth city Rotterdam where the government decided to build a completely new city ready for the future. Until today Rotterdam is one of the most modern cities in the Netherlands. I can talk about Dresden in Germany and the firestorms after the bombing etc ?
You my brothers and sisters can talk about the horror-story on 9/11 in New York.
We have difficulties to live with memories and make things work.
Brother Michael ?sorry for this looooooooooooo-oong typical Paul the bad one story. I felt like writing and sharing this morning.
I leave it to your and Mica?s wisdom. Please remember one thing: the instrument is made to play upon. I know there are a lot of modern techniques but this bass will have a story to tell musically and just by being an object.
With the skills of the Elfs at Alembic ?it will turn out the right way ?I just know that.
Paul the bad one
(Message edited by palembic on January 27, 2006)
(Message edited by palembic on January 27, 2006)
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Micheal.
I'd go for the Hurricane tribute - Just get the bass back to playing condition but leaving it with its battle scars.
graeme
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Paul; nice post! Thanks!
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My feeling is for the tribute style too. That is why I was comparing it to George Washington's hatchet. You know, the one he chopped down the cherry tree with. It is still in great condition, but over the years the handle has been replaced twice, and the blade has been replaced too.
I am going to call the elves soon so we can talk it over.
Michael
(Message edited by dela217 on January 27, 2006)
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Brother Paul, that was a splendid and most appropriate post.
Michael, best of luck with your decisions regarding this wonderful instrument.
I'll follow this thread with great interest.
=) Tom
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Tom said quote:I'll follow this thread with great interest. And so will I. The before and after contrast is stark!
Michael, was this instrument insured? If so, does it look like the carrier will pay for repairs?
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I thought the cherry tree was a myth - this bass really did suffer, but the comparison is valid.
It's really hard to tell from the pictures, but the neck's stability is worrisome. I attempted to show the condition, but it's just at a difficult angle to capture the damage. In some places, there is close to a 1/8 difference in height between the Maple and Walnut laminates - it's extreme.
Perhaps we could approach the project in stages, first more cleaning with oil, doing some restorative work on the body, and repairing the existing neck and hoping for the best. Only considering replacement if it actually fails in service. We can always repair it more in the future.
Thanks for all your thoughts on this project. It's a labor of love, we were moved to assist in its restoration to help our old friend who lost so much.
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I think leaving it to sit and dry out for a year before doing anything to it wouldn't be a bad idea. As the woods reach a point of moisture-content stability, I would guess that they would somewhat shrink and return to their pre-bath size and fit.
John
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I'm sorry about the loss. I noticed white deposits like I would expect to see from salt water. If it is then I would suggest a conservator be contacted to discuss leaching the salts out of the wood (such as soaking in distilled water?). If salts have leached into the wood they will continue to leach out and/or eat at the wood whenever it exposed to moisture. I'm by no means knowledgeable in this area but have read about similar situations.
Keith
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I've already told Michael over the phone, but I figured the rest of you would be intrigued by the fact that the electronics do work, somewhat. The bridge pickup is not working and there's consistent hum when you dial it in on the selector switch, but the neck pickup sounds great!
Valentino
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Thanks Val!
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Alembic: Takes a licking and keeps on ticking! Where is John Cameron Swayze when you need him?
Bill, tgo
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He's strapped to the front of a boat somewhere.. ;)
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My friend had to repair Lucille for BB a few years back. In a storm she got at the bottom of a trailor that was flipped over and filled with water. Bad bad condition. She was fixed and is in playing order. Just thought yall would like the story, cause it seemed pertinant.
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I think this will turn out to become one of those urban legends! A bass spends weeks underwater, comes out, is plugged in, and really works! Only an Alembic!
I would try to leave the bass as original as possible. Keep the scars.
The only thing I might add is that you should definitely take the advice of the people in the know here. I believe that with a combination of your personal ideas, and the expertise that Alembic has, that you will have an instrument that is amazing! Different from the original in some respects, but amazing, none the less!
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I cant wait to see the final product on this one the finish reminds me of my finish being that it has worn off over the years.
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Paul TBO, underneath that alias I suspect you may actually be more good than the rest of us combined...
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Nono ...i am bad ...really bad ...bad bad bad bad bad bad ...oh am I bad
P
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No he's not, he just likes to say that.
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I guess that settles that....
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Bah - I came here looking for an update and all I get is off topic drivel!!!
Seriously, though, any progress on this one yet? I think this may be the most intriguing construction job in the works.
-Bob
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This is on hold a for little while I do some more research about wood conservation and restoration. I've got a couple of books to sift through first, then we'll have enough information to decide how to proceed.
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Hi Mica, I've got an idea, so run!
How about an Alembic Relic series? This Hurricane Alembic could be the model for a new line of basses. It appears this same crazy idea is working elseware in the bass world. Mike would have an instant collectors item, if indeed he does not already.
Okay, I'll be quiet now.
Mike, a darn shame what happened to the old girl as she was a beauty. Now she is a living legend, good luck!
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As a person who really appreciates a well-made bass, nothing makes me more crazy than the whole Relic concept. Why in the world would someone take a nice new bass and beat the hell out of it? Even weirder to me is the idea that someone would actually pay more for a bass that has been abused at the factory!
On the other hand, the whole concept behind the restoration of Michael's bass is so cool I can't even talk about it! What a wonderful vibe and story that bass will have when it's done. Tiumph of the human spirit, and all of that...
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Steve - That is EXACTLY how I feel. Even more so than musical instruments, I don't care for distressed furniture. Antiques that have not been refinished are one thing, but to take a new piece and make it look old is beyond me.
Michael
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The best is when they do it with blue jeans and charge 80 bucks a pair. All the rage here in NYC.
I really hope this bass pulls through.
-Jack
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I've just been watching a BBC programme about hermann Leonard and his attempts to rebuild his collection of 10,000 or so prints of Jazz musicians. Aside from Leonards obvious losses, the programme spent alot of time dwelling on the after effects of katrina and how, even now nothing is being done by the government. I was especially moved by the plight of residents of the lower 9th district Which appears to have been the worst hit. Outside of the states, we've pretty much forgotten about the problems in New Orleans. For instance, we're not told that that the national guard have had to be brought back to control the escalating violence.
I found it amazing that the residents of New Orleans felt it absolutely neccessary to go ahead with mardi Gras this year despite the obvious difficulties. This programme has highlighted the problems in New orleans to me more than any news item.
Which, in a roundabout kind of way, brings me to wonder what has happened to Micheal's series 1?
Graeme
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Graeme - It really is still a mess here. But it is definately getting better. There are houses in my neighborhood that had to be torn down because of structural damage. I am still not in my home and it is coming up on a year since the storm! You are right. What is called the Lower 9th ward was the worst hit. But there are other areas with just as much devestation. It is strange that some areas did not get ANY flood water, but just a couple of blocks away, the water was up to the second story. I guess you guys can tell, I have had my fill of Katrina. Since the day I came back to this area, I have been working to rebuild. Both my house, and where I work. Hopefully we will be blessed in the future and not have another natural disaster.
On the bright side is that all of my neighbors have become much closer. It is though we are unified, all helping each other. Before the storm, I had dificulty hanging a picture. Now I am a carpenter, electrician, plumber, and brick layer! I have to admit that it has been quite a learning expierence.
Everyone here felt that Mardi Gras was neccessary and important. It HAD to go on. I was thrilled to be a part of it. I had the opportunity to play bass in the Krewe of Endymion. What a rush!!!
The national guard was called in early on because the city was lawless. People looting, and killing each other for gasoline. Pity. For a while though we were back on our feet with no help, but the crime got out of control. There were many murders every night. As soon as people started fixing up their houses, the stealing started. Folks were stealing wiring and copper pipes out of houses just to sell it by the pound! It got REAL bad. I am glad the Nationl Guard was called back. They really make a difference around here. I go out of my way to let them know how much they are appreciated here.
I am very lucky.
Michael
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Bro Michael, I am with you and supporting on a distance. The National Geographic did an astonishing and breathtaking articl eonthe Katrina visit in New Orleans.
I was really wooried knowing you -and other friends- were in that mess!
Keep the good faith!
Paul TBO
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One of the few positive things for me about Katrina was that a little while back, Michael and I had the oportunity to have a little post-hurricane Alembic show-and-tell. We got to take a little breather from re-building and shared some of our instruments. Michael is such an expert. I have to say I learn something new about Alembic every time I talk to him. It is too bad neither of us had a camera that day. It was very nice to meet him in person as well as his lovely family. By the way Michael I do have a bass I would like to show you. I am out of town at the moment but I'll call you when I get there.
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Thank you so much for that last post Michael.I'm sorry you and others are in that mess too but thanks for being a window into what seems to be another world.Like a science fiction tale.I just wish everybody Godspeed in getting they're lives back in order in New Orleans.Plus I hope 73-30 get's back to you soon.
To you and Jorge I say,Chin up.
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Apparently there is a new Spike Lee documentary about Katrina on HBO. Unfortunately I don't get HBO, but my guess is that for those who do, it will be well worth watching.
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If suggestions for what to do with the bass are still being taken, then I'd like to suggest that it be made to look new again, but have some sort of inlay to commemorate(sp?) this event.
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Like little MOP hurricane shape inlays?
(Message edited by ajish4 on August 21, 2006)
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I was actually just thinking that, or possibly something a bit more complex like a body inlay. It's up to the owner though.
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I'd like to see some progress photos.
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It's been mangled by something named after Saint Catherine, so a wheel might be an appropriate image -
(http://alembic.com/club/messages/631/30803.jpg)
Found here: http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/stc01001.htm (http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/stc01001.htm)
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I like both those inlay ideas! But, I am leaving it in Alembic's hands. When I talked to Mica last, I told her to do whatever they think is best to bring it back to life.
From what I saw of that bass after the flood, I really thought I was just going to throw it away. I had real doubts about it ever being playable again. When I first talked with Mica about this projest, she told me Send us your worst one. I feel that this one was the worst damaged of the bunch. If it can be salvaged at all, I will be thrilled.
Michael
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This is like pimp my ride! Well...except you have to pay for it...
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Just read through this wonderful set of posts. Michael, I hope things are improving for you all down there.
Any news on the progress so far?
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How's this coming along?
Peter
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I have not heard any news. I will have to call Mica and check on things.
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just to keep this on the radar. anything to report?
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any progress on this one Mike?(http://club.alembic.com/Images/631/79895.jpg)
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Curiosity bump.
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I remember seeing that bass when I was in the planning stages of my bass. I am extremely interested in the restoration of that beautiful and rare Alembic shorty.
It just goes to show just how strong and well build Alembics are, and being that some of the wood selections are from hurricane areas, that's in it self, is an agreement with nature's fury.
With so many inspirational, and beautiful stories of New Orleans; and its many tragedies, this bass is a wonderful example of symbolic musical quality, from the birth place of Jazz.
I also remember touching this bass, and sadly remembering the people who lost their whole way of life. Yes, this bass is special to me too and it represent something still standing, and still strong as the great people of New Orleans.
Peace and Love,
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on June 28, 2010)
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How did this story end, or is it still ongoing.?
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I saw the bass in the workshop last september.It still needed a whole lot of love to bring it back to life.
Graeme
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My recollection is that in addition to a whole lot of love, there is a whole lot of research and testing involved as well.
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Any further word on this one?
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I was just looking at this bass with Keith today when he picked up his Starfire. Still salt oozing out of the endgrain, but it's slowed enough that I'm just about confident enough to start taking the sucker apart.
It was crusting up every month with salt. My adviser on the project suggested waiting until it took 6 months to crust. We're about at that point. Will be nice to get this bass going strong again!
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Aaaannnd another bump.
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It's been a crust fest, I think all the increased humidity from rain we had this winter has been bursting out. But I haven't checked the level in about 2-3 months, so I'll look at it tomorrow.
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Wow! Talk about the tenacity of the folks at Alembic.
Kudos to you for persisting.
I cannot even begin to fathom the true value of this instrument
- much more than dollars can express.
This is a living piece of humanity
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I just think it's the coolest that they're going to fix it. I love a good basket-case story anyway. :)
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The more humidity it can see the better. Once it gets back to Michael it will see real humidity all summer long and a good portion of the rest of the year too.
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So, it's not too bad, only scraped about 1/8" of salt off the inside of the upper horns. I'm going to watch it more closely now, as it seems we might be close enough to get to work on it very soon. The fog is crazy this week!
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I'd like to see a pic of that before it gets scraped off.
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This is an epic. I check in regularly to see just how this will work out. If you ever get it back, Michael, I'll make a special trip to NOLA to meet you, and the bass!
R.
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So, any progress on this one?
Peter
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How's the resurrection coming...ready to move that boulder?
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Yearly check in. Any chance this one is getting dry?
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Very good timing on your query given that Ida is supposed to slam in to the New Orleans area later today. For those in the area, we hope you evacuated and our thoughts and prayers are with you for your personal safety as well as that of your instruments. Let's not provide the good people at Alembic with the need to create additional restoration miracles.