Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Dreaming... for now => Topic started by: marco555 on September 24, 2010, 12:22:10 PM
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OK Forum...Time to hear from the group..sold the Status, still have the 77 series 1, going to begin by building with anniv. electronics but leave room for S1/S2 electronics .CORE first..Mahogany? Vermillion? Solid? Chambered? I'm thinking of a modified Rogue body (no neck choice Yet)I want warmth, but solid low end bite. What's the diff? Any other suggestions?
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There is a good discussion of body woods here (http://www.alembic.com/info/wood_body.html).
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Whatever you do, make sure you get at least one Ebony neck laminate. It's the single biggest thing you can do to awesome-fy your tone.
If you're planning on getting Anniversary electronics and later upgrading to Series, make certain you specify that you want your bass to include the prep for future Series upgrade option.
I recommend getting continuous wood plates as an option -they look great and take off weight. However, if you do get these and/or get LEDs, you need to think about coordinating the plan with the Series prep.
The Series prep includes Alembic drilling out (in advance) the cavities you'll need for your eventual upgrade to Series, and applying the silver shielding paint, and adding the dummy pickup and the 5pin jack.
It's recommended that you make it clear that you want to be able to upgrade to Series in the future as this requires a slightly thicker body to accommodate the electronics.
If you opt for a Rogue body, you'll also likely need the Pregnant Rogue body variant -again to accommodate the future Series electronic... so again it would be important to make this clean before and/or when you order.
I give a hearty recommendation to the Balance K body shape.
But make sure you get an Ebony neck laminate; even one will do the trick. If you haven't heard about it, ask around, and everyone who has one will back me up on this.
One last thing: if you get LEDs, you might be able to have them and your power run through the 5pin jack, in which case you could avoid a battery cavity for LEDs and save a little money by not having that and not needing a continuous wood plate for the cavity (assuming you get that option). But this would mean you couldn't use them when playing wireless (if you do or want to be able to).
Just a few things to consider as you order your custom.
Oh, Coco Bolo looks and sounds great, too!
What scale length are you getting? Shorter is better unless you're getting a B string, in which case you shouldn't go shorter than a 33 or 32 inch scale.
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But make sure you get an Ebony neck laminate; even one will do the trick. If you haven't heard about it, ask around, and everyone who has one will back me up on this.
That totally depends on the sound you're going for. I like the ebony lam in my Rogue 5 but didn't get one when I ordered my custom Essence (still under construction). The ebony really dominates the tone. If that's what you're going for that's great. If not you may find yourself owning a very expensive mistake.
What scale length are you getting? Shorter is better...
That's totally up to the player. I don't care for short scale basses. 35 is my preference. Again different strokes for different folks. I do agree that 34+ is best for a low B string. I've found that some manufacturers have great low B strings at 34 scale while others sound bad for ease of discussion.
When I ordered my first custom I read the entire section of this site. Then started searching on various things I had questions about. You can educate yourself and get a really good idea about what you want. Then ask more direct questions based on what you personally believe you want in a custom.
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I have begun phase 1....the quotation phase! We have the following: 1)34 scale 4 string 2)my anniv. elec.3)P bass size neck w/ebony lam.set neck 4)Walnut core 4)Modified rogue body for series elec.
I'm going with a set neck for a more percussive sound. The ebony lam will make the fundamental pop. Susan feels the Walnut core should do a better job on accentuating the mids better. I still have not decided on keeping or selling the 77 S1. Has anyone ever tried making the string spacing wider by changing the bridge width?
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Has anyone ever tried making the string spacing wider by changing the bridge width?
I would imagine there is not much if any additional space between the G string and the end of the frets. My guess is that if you were to widen the string spacing at the bridge, you would have problems with the E and G strings being too close to the end of the frets.
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I like the specs you've posted; should make for a very cool bass.
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Dave,
thanks for the help. i have not yet received the quote, but I think it will be an eye opening experience. I tried to work the quote generator, but mine would be without electronics. Perhaps you wouldn't mind sending me some info off line to my other e mail to help me guide my way?
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Just a tiny note. I wasn't totally sure about string spacing, since I never measured mine on my Spector, so I had the luxury of taking her up to the Mothership and Mica measured everything for me and constructed my Sig Dlx neck accordingly.
The only thing I had to adjust to -- and hadn't even thought of -- was that the angle of the fret bevels is different than what I was previously accustomed to and I found I was fretting out much more readily on the G string when I bent the string down towards the floor. I don't think I've ever seen a reference to that phenomenon in the forum, before, so maybe it's just me (and my lousy technique!). Of course, a year later I've made the subconscious adjustment but it kinda freaked me out at first....
Anyway, good luck on your bass. So far it sounds like it's gonna be killer!
-Sam
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I'm hearing many varied opinions on set neck vs. neck through. Is there more attack to be derived from the wood used, or the way it's assembled? If I went with an ebony neck lam in a set neck or neck through, which is the stronger determining factor? Perhaps it's in the hands of the player.
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I think the basic idea is that in a neck-through the string vibration is, to a large extent, isolated in the neck, since both the fret where the note is fingered and the bridge, i.e. both ends of the plucked string, are attached to the neck. Thus in a neck-through the woods that primarily affect the tone are the neck woods. The body woods still play a role, depending to a large extent what kind of woods they are, but the neck woods primarily shape the tone.
In a set neck, one end of the plucked string is set in the neck while the other end is set in the body. Thus the body woods play a much more important role. In a set neck, since the vibration isn't isolated to and being fed back through the neck, there is a loss of sustain. And in a set neck the frequency range isn't as even since there is a bump caused by the break between the neck and the body. This gives set neck instruments a more pronounced mid to low-mid tone.
Neither is necessarily better than the other since it depends on what the player wants.
Personally, I prefer a neck-through for the more balanced frequency response and better sustain.
For your ebony neck lam, it will have a much stronger effect in a neck-through than in a set neck.
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Marc, check out this thread (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=3019); it does a much better job of discussing the differences between neck through and set neck than I did. Plus, Mica has a post in there too.
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What about a neckthrough with the top lam bookmatched to center? Would that affect the tone more than not being bookmatched to center?
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My guess is that it would be a small difference; and again, it would depend on the wood. Some top woods are pretty much just for visual appeal, while others clearly affect the tone.
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Yeah, I was thinking a really tight flame maple, or CocoBolo......
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I haven't really noticed any big difference in tone between neck throughs with bookmatched to center top or regular bookmatched tops.
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Too much access to knowledge can be a dangerous undertaking. this is approaching the be careful what you wish for stage. OK then, I cannot think of an Alembic artist who is known for his/her playing that has a set neck. Am I wrong? If I'm not, then why is this? I'm seeing such a high percentage of custom basses as neck throughs, with not many distinguishing set neck customs. It can all be aesthetics? Perhaps they last better over time as a neck through construction?
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neck through is a matter of preference or a way to cut down on expenses. just because an artist doesn't use a seet neck doesn't mean they aren't good, or that only neck through basses are good, just look at the number of bolt on neck basses that companies make/artists use
~Taylor
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Here is something I found a good while back which may give you and idea. They are Ken Smith basses and not alembic so there should be differences due the the differing construction between Alembic and Ken Smith basses, but it serves as a general example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0quJTuSVmP0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0quJTuSVmP0)
Jazzyvee
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Here is something I found a good while back which may give you and idea. It's a comparison between Ken Smith basses and since we can't do this test with two alembic basses this serves as a general example of the differences between neck thru and bolt on bass sounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0quJTuSVmP0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0quJTuSVmP0)
Jazzyvee
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Interesting... I MUCH prefer the tone of the bolt-on. However, the woods are not the same in the 2 basses (so I'm not sure how much that is playing in my preference).
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Hi Tmoney; My reference is only to Alembic products. We can start with Jaco and go everywhere outside of the Alembic circle. While there may be a cost factor due to the wood question, there is a lot of labor involved. My second point/question refers to the longevity and durability of the products.
Jazzyvee; your link is awesome, it's even noticeable through cheap desktop speakers.
To me,it points out the sonic differences that can be had with construction, and the emphasis that it places on tone.
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Interesting capos he's got there - WTF?
Peter
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That's probably just to mute the sustain a bit. The strings are lively and he probably needs to mute it down. You can do it with your right hand, but that takes more technique.
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Marc; an Alembic set neck will be of the highest quality, so whether it will last better over time is not an issue. Until the mid 90's, Alembic only made neck-throughs; so one reason more 'Alembic artists' play neck-throughs is that when they started playing Alembics, neck-throughs were the only choice. But probably the main reason is that the even frequency response of the neck-through is part of the 'Alembic sound' in the same way that low pass filters are. As a generalization, if you're a musician for whom money is no object and you want that Alembic sound, you'll order a neck-through. On the other hand if you're a musician who's looking for a particular sound they hear in their head, then if the set neck gives them that sound, they order a set neck. When you look through the Factory to Customer section, you'll see a few very nice customs that have set necks; for instance Jeff's beautiful bass Scarlet (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=7679) is a set neck. Additionally, there have been some custom builds where the owners were after the ultimate Alembicized Jazz bass; so since Jazz basses are not neck throughs, they order set necks; set necks give you more of that Jazz bass sound.
Alembic started building set neck instruments because it gave folks a less expensive way to get in to owning Alembic instruments; the construction process is not as expensive as neck throughs. But they are still of the highest quality. Our fellow club member Rami has a number of set neck Excels because he loves the tone those instruments have; however, he also has a number of neck-through Alembics as well, because he loves that tone too.
Lots to think about! Have fun with it.
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Trip Wamsley is an amazing player and uses both his Orion fretless and Epic models as well as his 8 string Rogue (a unique featured custom named Ocean Blue).
Mike
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and Flea (of red hot chili pepper fame) used an epic on almost all of 'One hot minute'.
graeme
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Wow Graeme, didn't know that, thanks for that info
~Taylor
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Ok, guys- this might help. In the following video, I'm playing old Thunderstick, my affectionate name for my Custom Epic 6 with 5 (yes, 5!) Ebony laminates a mahogany core, and a flame maple top.
Video 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JLQrk2NhZM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JLQrk2NhZM)
The 2nd video is me playing my recently acquired Series II 6 with 5 purpleheart lams, an 11 piece walnut/maple/mahogany body(thanks again, kungfusheriff!!!)
Video 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PCkO1Nf3CQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PCkO1Nf3CQ)
Sorry, I really wanted it to be the same song, but I wasn't able to find my copy of Five Ton Mary with me playing the new bass that was just me & my drummer (we now have a guitar player and I wanted it to be as fair a comparison as possible- even playing ground, and all that). But still, you'll really get the idea- the 1st was professionally recorded with 4 or 5 high end video cameras and multiple angles, while the 2nd was a single shot/angle camera of typical store bought quality. The 2nd video is amazingly clear and crisp picture and audio-wise, so I think it's a pretty fair comparison.
You guys be the judge. But Marc, you'll understand what I mean, when I called that Epic Thunderstick. You really need to go with at least one ebony lam, no matter what you do, but I'd encourage 3 lams, whether you're getting all 3 ebony or all 3 purpleheart, or a combo of each. There's magic in those extra laminates, coupled with the S1, S2 (especially S2) electronics. I'd venture to say that you should go with at least a 3-5 piece body- all this stuff does make a difference- trust me, I've played S1 & S2, and the clarity of tone of a S2 is simply unmatched. You know, because you heard it in person at Uncle Mike's a few weeks back!
Peace;)
Hope This Helps!
Frank