Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Owning an Alembic => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: ajish4 on April 23, 2006, 08:33:34 PM
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Here is my first posting of my new 81 Distillate. I purchased it from a forum member. HERE'S MY PROBLEM. THE VOLUME IS REALLY LOW. ALMOST LIKE IT IS A PASSIVE BASS. It's clean and crisp and all the switches work, just so darn LOW! New battery installed. I found some instructions in the FAQ section, but can anyone show me a picture or some more detailed instructions on how to turn up the volume on the pickups? I'm not too good at this tech stuff! Thanks in Advance! "Internally, you will find 2 small trimpots on the circuit board that control the gain of each pickup. You can set the height of the pickups without regard to output. This means you can set the pickups' height to either where you like the way they sound or for your comfort, then go inside and correct the gains so that your pickup selector switch has the same volume for the neck and bridge pickups". I had a few things done to it to get her more to my taste. Not that she wasn't sweet before, see first picture... I'm a bit OCD so I'm not done yet...I LOVE Walnut and I LOVE to see that grain. The satin finish was worn in places. It just didn't look just the way I wanted. I just had it buffed out by a fantastic luthier here in Fla. Just check out the end result. A little fret work and she plays like new. I've put a lot of $$$$$ into her but she is worth it.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/27447.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/27448.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/27449.jpg)
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The best post, including pictures, is here. (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=222)
Clockwise is louder; it turns through a little more than 3/4 of a circle from min to max, and you should be able to easily feel when it stops. If that doesn't help, tell us more about what you are doing.
Looks beautiful, the buff job was definitely worth it.
-Bob
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Thanks Bob!
Exactly what I was looking for!
I just tweaked the adjustments and turned them FULL to the right. It doesn't seem like they went too far, about a 1/4 turn, would that normally make a big difference?
My amp isn't at home, so I'll have to wait to test it out tomorrow evening at practice.
Thanks again, I really appreciate it! I'll keep you posted!
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The way the back of the bass came out in the pic looks like a gleaming waterfall of blood! Slightly morbid, but it is strikingly beautiful.
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Thanks Adam!
Cool description! I only thought of melting wax! I like your idea better!
I love this bass. I'll get some more pictures taken and get them posted in the showcase soon. I have to get it back to the lutiher. SOMETHING is rattling when I hit the open E. I looked and looked and couldn't find it.
Amazing what a little buffing can do to a finish!
Bob, I was unalbe to make practice the other night so I'll keep you posted. There was some previous soldering work that was done to the electronics so I don't know if that could be a possiblilty. I'll take a pic of the electronics cavity.
Thanks again!
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If there's a grey RF bead inside the cavity, and it doesn't have some padding, the bead may be rattling against the backplate, or some electronics part.
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Adriaan:
Thanks for the suggestion, nothing I can spot in the cavity. Here are some pictures.
Bob, the volume problem still exists... The pots didn't make MUCH of a difference. Anything in these pictures look like an obvious problem?
Thanks again for all the help!
Tony
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/27536.jpg)
(Message edited by davehouck on April 28, 2006)
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Sorry, not much I can add here. You have a new battery (did you actually test it?), and it sounds like you properly turned up the trims all the way (and that they were pretty well up there already).
Just to make sure they're doing what they should, try turning them both all the way down. There should be a very noticeable difference in volume.
It looks like your pickups are at a reasonable height. Is the output from each pickup similar, using one at a time? And is the volume grossly less than your Epic? If so, then perhaps something was changed in this previous soldering, but I'm not the one to help you figure that out.
-Bob
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There may be nothing wrong with it at all. Both of my MK's have a much lower output level than any of my other active basses. In fact they are both about as hot as my passive basses. They sound great, just not as hot. In fact when I play them I plug them in the passive input on my SWR 750. All of my Warwick's I must plug into the active input (-12 db), the 9 or 18 volt.
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Is there a difference between the two pictures?
My eyesight isn't very good; is that electrical tape around the neck pickup lead where it connects to the pc board?
Again, it's hard for me tell what I'm looking at. Are the pickup leads soldered to the pc board?
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Bob:
Thanks agian for the help. Yes, the battery was changed and tested for voltage. The volume is EQUAL on both pickups and YES, the volume is GROSSLY less than my Epic. I appreciate the advice.
Olie: I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm amazed the MK's have a low output level. I never would have thought that!
I called Alembic today and spoke to Mica. What a sweetheart! She told me that the Distillate (being made in 1981) was a bit lower than my later model Alembics. She is sending some information and mentioned something about changing TWO RESISTORS. She said that it should be an easy fix and this resistor swap should make a big difference.
I'm telling you, with customer service like that, how could you not want to but another Alembic? I mean, we're talking a 25 year old second, or thind hand bass, and she treated me like I purchased it yesterday! Stunning, just stunning.
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Tony: I know what you mean about Mica. She is great. I spoke to her a few times about upgrading the electronics on my 98 MK to rid it of RF interference. She treated me like I just bought a truck load of basses.
I see you play on your praise team, do ya'll ever do any Kirk Franklin. He has always got the best musicians man. Great stuff to play.
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Dave,
Sorry about the duplicate pictures. My goof! There were TWO DIFFERENT ones I tried to post!
YES, from what I can tell, they pickup is soldered to the pc board.
I'm still waiting for MICA's email. She had mentioned that she will be emailing me something and also sending out the schematic.
Olie,
I had to do some looking over our song list, I don't think we've ever done ANY Kirk Franklin songs. I looked at a list of his songs on the web, and nothing looks familiar. Any suggestions?
It looks like he's done a lot!
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Tony; the pickup leads are not supposed to be soldered to the board. You might want to consider at some point sending the bass to Santa Rosa and having the wiring restored. Of course, if the resistors Mica recommends solve your problems then it's problem not really necessary to send it back.
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Hi Dave,
Here is the other picture I wanted to post.
The bass is at my luthier's at present. I just heard from Mica, she will be sending me some pictures of the wiring cavity should look like from the factory.
She aslo said she would mail me a wiring diagram that my luthier can look over. He is a very experienced luthier and he told me that he wouldn't do anything to the bass that he isn't comfortable doing.
If it needs a complete re-wire, I'll send it into the factory. We're going to take one step at a time.
The RED arrows in the picture show the soldering points of the pick ups. The RED circles are area's of concern. These are the volume pots. It APPEARS that there is one lead (the far right) that looks to be either missing or broken off of each of the pots.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/27606.jpg)
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There are only 2 connections from each of the trim pots, so what you describe is normal.
The pickups originally had connectors on them. Sometime since your bass was made, they were clipped off and soldered onto the terminals. Your repair person can recrimp the ends and slide on a new housing. If they don't have the proper crimping tool, you can send us the pickups and we can recrimp the ends.
Here is what you need to do to increase the gain on your Distillate:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/27642.jpg)
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Sigh,
Well, just an update:
I ALMOST had my baby back in my hands today, until the luthier did ONE FINAL CHECK after she was assembled again and discovered that the P/U selector switch isn't working correctly!
After taking the switch out, he discovered that a 1.8K resistor was blown on the back of the switch! Sigh..........SO, I'll call Mica and see if I can just get the resistor or the complete switch.
The mod was done with adding of the resistors and the luthier said that there is a very noticeable difference in the sound. He said it is a monster sounding bass! And that was with JUST ONE PICKUP WORKING! I can't wait to get her back!
I'll keep you posted and how she tests out when I get her back.
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WHAT other company would go to this trouble for a second-hand bass and the second or third owner to get them up and running?
J o e y
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Hey Joey,
How right you are!
I can safely say that NO OTHER COMPANY would do what Alembic has done for me.
I STILL can't get over (and neither can my luthier) how much help Mica is/was with the advice on how to imporve the output by adding the resistors. THEN, taking the time to send a schematic AND photo's with arrow's as to where the new resistors go!
I spoke to Mica yesterday, and AGAIN she took the time to help me out on the phone advising me what to do next to correct the p/u selector switch!
Mica sold me for life. My next bass will be a new Alembic custom. How could you not want to give something back to a company as unique and helpful as Alembic. It's up to us to support them and let them know that their way of doing business is GREATLY appreciated!
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Hey Tony, glad to hear that your bass is working great. She is beautiful.
What did Mica tell you about the pickup selector? My Distillate pickup selector is not working either. Well it goes from off to on, but there is no difference between any of the other positions!
Thanks
Al
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Hi AL,
Mica said they have the pickup selector IN STOCK for $65.00. The best part, NO SOLDERING required! It is PRE-WIRED so all you have to do is plug in the connector and you're ready to go!
Glad to hear from another Distillate owner. There doesn't seem to be too many of us out here!
Tony
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It's prewired - but only on the switch end. You still need to solder the wires on the board. But it does save the most tedious work on the small terminals, and we do all the nice shrink tubing as well.
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Thanks Mica for clearing that up! I obviously misunderstood what you had said.
I'm still waiting for my luthier to let me know what he wants me to do as far as the switch. He's going to try to make the repair. If he can't manage to get it to work, I'll have to order one myself.
THANK YOU again for all the help!
(Message edited by ajish4 on June 05, 2006)
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Al; are both pickups working?
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Hey Tony, it does look like us Distillate owners are a small group. I think that is another reason why I love mine!
If I remember correctly when I took out the electronics for the upgrade, the pickup selector wires did not need to be soldered back in. I think they were attached by sliding a little plastic thing on (similar to the pickup hook ups).. I will check and let you know.
Dave, I think both pickups are working, I have not had the time to unhook each pick up and and test. I think because I do not use her that much, it is not so much of a priority besides at this point, she sounds great anyway. I will try do some tesing and let you know..
Thanks
Al
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Hey AL,
Yeah, it appears that there are only a few of us!
I sure hope you get the situation with the switch corrected soon.
I did have to order the switch after all. I called Alembic today and it is being shipped directly to the luthier. If all goes well, I'll have her back late NEXT WEEK!
When it's complete, I'll take some fresh pictures for the showcase section!
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OK, so I am totally embarassed.
Last night I plugged in the Distillate and opened up the cavity and unplugged one pickup... I can hear.
Plugged it in again and did the same for the other pickup.... Nothing. No Sound. So it appears that all this time I have been playing using one pickup. Unfortunately I did not have a chance to change the pickup connectors to ensure I do not have a dead pickup, but I will do that this weekend and then if I get sound out of the other pickup, I will call Mica or Val and order a new pickup selector switch.
In the mean time words truely cannot describe what an idiot I feel like! On the plus side I cannot wait to hear how the bass really should sound like.
dumbass!
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Don't be too hard on yourself Albert (is that pronounced dumb-BASS or Red Forman's nick name for Eric) sometimes we all overlook the simple solutions. I'm glad that you've found the problem. You might even look at the plug to make sure the female connector isn't being pushed back in the plug by the male pin. This happened to me on my Burl Mk when I put the electx's back after a RF upgrade.
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Hi Olie, I refer to Eric Forman's nick name... what a great show!
Anyway, I will look at the plug too. thanks for that insight.
Al
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YEP, I love that show. Spent my entire teens in the seventies. We didn't have the circle though, ours was the Camaro. The best years of my life, right up until 79 when I got married at the ripe old age of 17 (just kidding dear). LOL
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OK, So now I know what the problem is.... a loose wire! I will start a new issue for Mica to help me.
S#!T
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So Tony, give us an update on the bass. Did adding the two resistor add enough gain? I got my loose wire soldered and now the pickup selector works, but I am also suffering low gain (which I did not before).
How does the bass sound? Do you get very low rumbly distorted sounds out of the E and A strings? Curious.
I am considering selling the bass. It is not my main bass, but going through all this work, does not feel worth while at this point.
Al
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Spliffy, the E and A should definitely not sound rumbly and distorted! A Distillate should sound perfect, no distortion, unless you're overdriving the amp with too much volume. Definitely, don't sell it, find out what's wrong. Fresh battery, add the ferrite bead, etc. - talk to the factory. If you fix it I guarantee you won't sell it unless it's to fund a bigger, better Alembic.
EffClef
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Thanks EffClef. I have the ferrite bead and new battery. I will talk with the guys at Alembic. Somehow this bass is become high maintenance and it is frustrating me (I do get frustrated quite easily).
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spliffy -
If you're experiencing low output level AND distortion on the low notes/strings at the same time, then the problem is probably a bad power connection on the EQ board or a short which might be anywhere on the board.
The mods that you've had done are very tricky compared to wiring up an ol' Strat, where half the art the tech has to have is to get a bunch of wires to stay in a big blob of solder on the back of a pot. To do the resistor addition or reattach the wire, they needed to do very precise and localized soldering, because the slightest solder bridge or whisker of a wire can lead to the kind of problems that you're seeing. You need a big soldering iron to effectively heat a 1/4 plug or make that big solder blob liquid, but to work on that PC board, you'll need a tiny pinpoint soldering tip and a very steady hand, otherwise you might damage the surrounding joints.
I'm not trying to disparage your tech (he's a trooper to even go in there without helmet and safety harness), but there are probably 100 connections here that are outside the realm of what a normal guitar tech would ever see.
The ferrite won't make any difference (it will only get rid of high frequency noise), but a new battery might help.
It seems to me that perhaps you should consider sending your Distillate on a trip to the mother ship, where everything can be taken care of fully and in one shot. If that's not workable, perhaps you might ask Mica if there's somebody local who's got more experience debugging this problem. Diagnosing a cascade of problems (which might be the result of mistreatment before you got the bass) is considerably harder than fixing a single isolated problem.
David Fung
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Thanks David, that is great advise and greatly appreciated. I am not sure what to do... I think I will sleep on it for a few days.
Al
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Hey Spliffy,
Sorry to say, I STILL DON'T HAVE IT BACK YET!
There was a mixup with the pickup selector switch. It SHOULD arrive on MONDAY at the luthiers shop. The waiting is the hardest part.
I wish I had an update for you!
On another note, you COULD just send in JUST the electronics to Alembic. Someone had mentioned it here on the forum, I never would have thought of that! This way, the problem gets fixed, and you don't have to worry about subjecting the bass to the hazards of the US POST OFFICE!
I PROMISE to let you know how it all shakes out when I get the 'ol girl back into the house!
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What can I say? After two full months, SHE'S HOME! Man, she just FEELS SO DAMN GOOD!
Before I go ANY further, I just wanted to say THANK YOU to Mica for ALL the help & patience during the re-birth. Adding the resistors made her like a NEW BASS! OH, the SWEET VOLUME, and the SOUND; IT RINGS LIKE A BELL!!! SO NICE & LOUD! What a difference!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well worth the wait!
Thanks to you too Mary, for the patience while I was ordering the parts needed to bring my baby back to its former glory. Sorry to be such a pain in the butt while ordering all those little pieces. ONLY one more to go! The brass back plate!
TWO months of waiting, testing, repairing, adding, removing, replacing, buffing, waxing, re-wiring, soldering, sigh......she is home...
I don't know how to put this...but, OH MAN, she kicks @ss!
And, last but NOT least, everyone here of the forum. From the forumate who sold her to me at a great price, to all of you who helped with directions, advice, and guidance.
Sorry to make this short, but I'm off to play my sweetheart!
THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!
Tony
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Congrats!
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'Play that funky music White Boy!'
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COOL!
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Hey Dave,
Is there s way to SAVE the picture MICA posted with the directions on how to do the upgrade to the Distillate? She put some time & effort into doing the research and getting the MOD instructions posted.
I'd say that it INCREASED the volume on my bass by about 40%. A very nice gain for so little money invested into the resistors!
Thanks again everyone, a project well worth the effort!
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Which picture?
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Moder Dave,
About halfway up this thread, the picture with the yellow and green arrows and color-keyed text on the right side.
Mike
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On IE, you can right-click on the picture. Then select Save Picture As... from the pop-up menu. This will open a file-save dialog box.
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Hi Dave,
Dadabass is correct. The picture with the yellow & green arrows. They are the instructions for increasing the output.
Two simple resistors, and what a HECK of an increase too! Just gigged with it for the first time tonight...Amazing....I'm sure in the future someone may have the same situation. I just thought it would be great for the archives.
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Done.
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Thank's Dave,
Very kind of you!