Alembic Guitars Club

Alembic products => Owning an Alembic => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: rjbassman on February 19, 2009, 01:45:05 PM

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: rjbassman on February 19, 2009, 01:45:05 PM

Although the packaging clearly says CX-3/45LB I was concerned that they would be too short for my 35 Rogue. Imagine my surprise when they turned out TOO LONG! The body of the B is actually wraping the pegs, notice the deflection. The other strings tune nicely and stay in tune but the low B is hard to tune and tempermental. Is anyone else having Rogue problems or did I get stuck with counterfeit strings?
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/61489.jpg)

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: rjbassman on February 19, 2009, 01:48:09 PM

Another view down the neck
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/61492.jpg)

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: rjbassman on February 19, 2009, 01:58:59 PM

What are the silk color codes?
The following link shows a Rogue with mismatched lengths and a different color silk.
http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/61054.html?1234321099 (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8575)

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: keith_h on February 19, 2009, 04:42:54 PM

The color of the wrapping is correct for Alembic strings. I think you just need to trim more off the end before winding them on the post.  
 
Keith

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: David Houck on February 19, 2009, 11:35:07 PM

I agree with Keith that it appears you are using too many wraps around the post on all of your strings.  What I've read in the past indicates that three full wraps is sufficient.  I would try reducing to three wraps to see if that helps.

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: adriaan on February 20, 2009, 02:17:24 AM

Totally agree with the point about the 3 wraps.
 
Hold the string by its far end and let it dangle. Wait until it stops untwisting. Now anchor the string in the tail piece, and lead it over the nut and past the proper tuner, until it reaches the next tuner on a 2+2 peghead (about 5 cm, or 2). Whatever you do, make sure you don't twist the string: this can make it go dead.
 
At that point, you bend the string, then move another 0.5 cm (1/4) further up the string, and cut off the excess length. Now hook the end of the string into the hole that runs down the shaft. Lead the string towards the top of the peghead, then firmly bend the string to start wrapping around the post. Tune it up while holding the string in place, until it holds by itself. Make sure you check that the ball end is sitting snug in the tail piece. I usually end up with 3 to 4 windings on the tuner.
 
The B string may need a little more than 2 - start with 2.5, as you can always cut off the last bit, and repeat the process from there.
 
Even on the E string, sometimes you can get a slight bend between the nut and the tuner, but I've never seen it as pronounced as on your B string - obviously this is what you get from having your last wrap sitting on top of the first few wraps.

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: rjbassman on February 20, 2009, 08:10:55 AM

Actually gents, my question is more about the location of the silk-to-Final String Diameter(FSD) interface. It's clear that I'm already violating the FSD bend radius on the B string, that's why is shows so much deflection toward the middle of the neck before getting pulled back into line by the nut. The following pics from the gallery show what I believe is a more typical location for the FSD/silk transition.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/61519.jpg)

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: rjbassman on February 20, 2009, 08:21:40 AM

and this one (clearly non-alembic strings but you can see the transition) Did I get stuck with a 36 set? If my Rogue was a std 34 I would have snapped the B & G cores trying to get them wrapped around the diameter of the peg. the previous link showed a Rogue with 2 different FSD transitions and while he might enjoy silk on his nuts (B & E strings), it probably isn't doing anything for his tone.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/61523.jpg)

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: adriaan on February 20, 2009, 08:42:34 AM

Huh? You seem to be thinking in distance from the wrong end of the string ...
 
The FSD transitions on a given bass will be in roughly the same spot, whether you have 3 windings around the peg or 10. This is because the distance covered by the string from the tail piece to the tuner is the same no matter what number of wraps you have around the peg.

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: rjbassman on February 20, 2009, 08:56:44 AM

Spot on adriaan! unless you know of a way to adust the string length at the tailpiece .
 
Based on experience and the pics above (and the link), the FSD transition (sorry for having to makeup jargon) should be midway between nut and closest peg.
 
Which brings me back the original question: Did I screw up buying Alembic CX-3/45LB strings for my 35 Rogue?  
 
I wasn't aware that they even made a 36 set and I'm expecting my B to break any day from having the core over-bent/kinked.

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: mica on February 20, 2009, 08:58:44 AM

Are you quite certain the bass is a 35 scale? Please check the scale length by measuring from the nut to the 12th fret then doubling.
 
Email me with the details of where/when you purchased the strings.

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: olieoliver on February 20, 2009, 09:08:43 AM

I agree woth the other guys. Too many wraps. The B string is resting on the wraps below it forcing it outward away from the peg. I would imagine the resulting bend in the string between the nut a tuning peg is what's causing the tuning problems.  
 
OO

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: rjbassman on February 20, 2009, 09:34:54 AM

Does anyone know the minimum bending radius on a .128 hexcore string?  
 
I'm guessing it's 6 diameters (much bigger than my tuning peg).
 
To close the subject of wraps, I deliberately over wrapped the B on the assumption that fewer wraps = tighter bending radius.  
 
After all, that's why they bother to build strings with a skinny silk-wrapped end.

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: adriaan on February 20, 2009, 09:45:57 AM

Hm, check the base of the peg: the radius is probably even larger there than where it's now sitting on top of the first wrap.
 
You might run into problems with the outer wire of the string getting caught between the first wrap and the second.

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: rjbassman on February 23, 2009, 07:45:28 AM

fyi: the silk wrap starts 38 1/4 from the tailpiece (subtract about 1/8 and you'll have the eyelet-to-silk dimension).
 
Anyone else care to share their string dimensions?

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: rjbassman on April 16, 2009, 07:12:53 AM

Apparently Alembic strings don't fit Aussie Rogues either, saw this B-string-core-wrapper/core-snapper on ebay.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/63784.jpg)

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: FC Bass on April 16, 2009, 07:41:13 AM

I have a 130 string (long scale) tuned A on my 32 inch Spoiler, no problems at all...  Just put the strings on in the right way and you'll be fine ;-)  Pics:  
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/63792.jpg)
 
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/63793.jpg)
  (Message edited by fc_spoiler on April 16, 2009)

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: paulman on April 16, 2009, 08:42:40 AM

That last headstock looks a little high to me.

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: lbpesq on April 16, 2009, 09:06:17 AM

Of course I like it!  Bill, tgo  
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/63799.jpg)
 
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/63800.jpg)

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: FC Bass on April 16, 2009, 09:30:32 AM

I love those, too bad my budget is too tight for that kind of options...
 
I'm gonna get some coffee now :-)

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: rjbassman on April 24, 2009, 01:07:43 PM

Coffee?? Are you sure?
I hear it's can be rather addictive...
 
I can just hear lbpesq at the airport now:  
I need to use the can, will you carry my guitar through Security? I'll catch up with you at the gate

Title: Alembic strings don't fit my Rogue
Post by: adriaan on April 27, 2009, 12:24:00 AM

rjbassman - if you had visited the Netherlands sometime since the 1970s, you would have known that there are three types of coffeeshop around here, one of which is the type that Flip is referring to. You can tell the types of coffeeshop apart from the outside, by smell alone. In Amsterdam, just follow tourists over the age of 18 - they're bound to drop in (or out, if you like).