Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Owning an Alembic => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: tomhug on May 19, 2014, 09:44:00 AM
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I am trying to standardize on one type of strap-lock system. Since I have more basses with the Dunlop Dual Design, those win. (Nothing wrong with the Schallers, just needed to pick one type so all my straps are compatible with all my basses).
Has anyone here done this upgrade? I've done this on some of my other basses but wanted to touch base here to see if there are any Alembic-specific concerns.
I'll be updating a 77 Series I and a 1993 Essence 6.
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I had the Schaller strap locks on my Elan, but was using a leather strap that was too thick for the supplied hardware, could NOT get the nut to screw far enough down to get a secure fit. Plus the Schallers were a bit fussy for me in terms of attaching and releasing the strap, so I thought, 'I'll get some Dunlops'.
Well, it was too thick for them as well. But I was tired of hassling with the Schallers, got another strap and changed them out.
Nothing to it really. The screws into the body were roughly the same size. So I got some toothpicks and broke off the pointed ends so the length was just a bit shorter than the depth of the hole. Coated them in a dab of Gorilla glue (or Elmer's or any wood glue will work) and pushed them into the hole with another toothpick. Left it about 30 minutes to set up, and carefully screwed the Dunlop screw and strap button into the hole.
For me they're easier than the Schallers. Now what am I going to do with that other strap . . .
J o e y
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You could always trim the hole in the strap where you are trying to inset the strap lock. With more room, the problem of the Schaller screw disappears not being able to catch and tighten.
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I decided that I would standardize my strap-lock system to Schaller .
In any such wood screw oriented scenario I would make sure that the screw is very securely fastened. You can use a sliver of wood or even a toothpick and wood glue and insert the sliver or toothpick's with a drop of wood glue into the hole and make sure that you feel a bit of resistance while driving in the screw with a manual screw driver. I would caution you to not use a screw gun so that you can really have a feel to the tightness of the completed conversion. As in all such work an un-rushed clear minded methodology is conducive to a job well done. A safe padded and protective worktable clear free from debris , screws and tools and
and anything but padding will insure that you will have no undesired marks and scratches on the instrument. Have a clean soft rag handy for excess glue clean up with a tiny little bit of water if you have a little cleanup from too much glue and be mindfull of the finish type (synthetic or oil).
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Joey,
I had the same problem with some Italia Straps, which are otherwise very nice straps - just really thick.
The solution: use a small C-clamp and a couple of washers (or coins) to compress the leather. This temporary compression allowed me enough play to attach the Dunlop strap inserts.
HTH,
Tom
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Has anyone here done this upgrade?
Sorry, but that's a downgrade; I've never seen a Schaller-equiped instrument hit the floor and cannot imagine a scenario where they could, but have I have seen several with Dunlops go boom. Not fun.
Peter
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Hi Peter,
I probably should have just said modification.
My experience and that of most of the people I've discussed it with has been the reverse. The Shallers tend to work themselves loose if you don't use loc-tite, and sometimes even if you do.
I think both designs have strong and weak points, and conversely that both could be made to work quite well. In my case it's simply a situation where the only basses I have with Schallers are my Alembics. I've had good luck with the Dunlop Dual Design on my other instruments so far. I will say that I always try to pull the locking peg out once engaged with the Dunlops, and they haven't failed in many years (so far) for me.
But if the numbers had worked out differently, I might be swapping the Dunlops for Schallers...
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Thanks, Tom. It's a Levy's green leather strap that matches my Elan perfectly, and I hated having to not use it. I couldn't see any way for me to trim the leather (this of course intimates that someone who knows what they're doing could probably do that . . .), so maybe the squash method (preferable for me as it's reversible!) may right things. Thanks again.
J o e y
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Joey,
I've used a similar method with the clamps to smash down the leather to a point where attaching the strap lock is possible. I've used a couple coins (I used dimes) stacked on either side of the hole and then tightened down the c-clamps as hard as I could. 48 hours later and that leather is pretty well compressed and it makes attaching the straplock (w/ loctite) possible.
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I use Schallers. I regularly check the tightness of both the strap and instrument components.
That being said, I have had a Schaller fail. After 27 years, the strap part had worn enough that it would no longer reliably keep its grip.
No big deal, I just replaced the part.
Also, I know that I used to be able to purchase the instrument part from Fender (several in a package, they were standard equipment on some instruments and thus available as a spare part) so that I could have strap locks on all instruments without needed a separate strap for each. I don't know if Fender still carries these, and I don't know if Dunlop has the same option.
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I have several guitars and straps with Schallers (and a couple with the Dunlops). I ALWAYS check that everything is tight EVERY time I strap on a guitar. No matter how well the strap lock is designed, it will fail if it has come loose.
Bill, tgo
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This is what happened to a bass when a warwick strap lock failed and the bass dropped from waist height.
http://imgur.com/a/hZVeU (http://imgur.com/a/hZVeU)
I have a mixture of strap locks on my guitars and basses and from time to time they do need re-tightening. Most of the wear I've seen on them happens on the bit that is fixed to the bass and Ive had to change those on a few instruments over the years. I recall only one having a problem where the spring loaded locking mechanism became jammed.
Fitting them to thick leather is a challenge and if the manufacturers gave us a few more millimetres of thread length on the fixing it would be fine
Jazzyvee
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Ouch ! _____
Jazzyvee , I agree with your last sentence above !
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That being said, I have had a Schaller fail. After 27 years, the strap part had worn enough that it would no longer reliably keep its grip.
But even then, the instrument was held up by U-channel, wasn't it? If a Dunlop fails, there's no back up (and you can't bump a Schaller loose like you can a Dunlop, either).
Peter (whose statements on these matters always assume that you keep it all tight; nothing works if you don't do your part)
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Schaller should come up with a strap attachment with a two-sided thingy, rather than the one-sided thingy that is held down to the strap by a nut.
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The one complaint I have with my Schallers is that I can't use them with a strap pin mounted on the back at the base of the neck because the top of the lock stabs me. The Dunlops are much preferred for this particular application.
Bill, tgo
(Message edited by Lbpesq on May 22, 2014)
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My Sheraton is the only one I have with that button placement; I have have never felt the Schaller poking me (may have something to do with the angle my belly puts it at. But wait, no, the same was true 100 pounds ago).
Peter
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Cozmic: you are correct. I should have said the part was worn out, it wasn't really a failure.
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(Hmmm... I forgot to finish posting this yesterday so here goes)
Tom - as long as the anchor screw is secure you'll be fine. Just as Joey and Wolf suggest using a sliver or toothpick with glue will make the wood screw have a nice surface to grip into.
And yes, any strap or locking system should be checked every time an instrument is worn. Just the compression of the wood cells under the pressure from the wood screw and strap pin will cause the instrument end to loosen. No biggie unless you let it go a while and it strips or worse... fails! Likewise on the strap end (yes, loctite is your friend there!).
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Thanks Mica, Mission Accomplished:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/192385.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/192386.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/192387.jpg)
The newer screws were just a bit longer, and a tiny bit wider, than the originals, so they should hold fine with no need for wood scraps or glue.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/192388.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/192389.jpg)
I forget how old this bass actually is. (I mean, I know its age but I don't think of it as 'old") I was reminded when I needed to find a flat-head screwdriver to loosen the Schaller Pegs that were on there. I *think* I put the Schallers on long ago... 1986 ?