Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: edwardofhuncote on July 10, 2015, 01:25:44 PM
-
So, in the spirit of getting the cart waaaay ahead of the mule on the heels of this upcoming custom order, I've been doing some reading on strap locks...
http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=4317.msg51920#msg51920
Right off the top I'll just say I don't care for them, and never needed them before.
That said, being something of a instrument repair hack, I'm quite familiar with the consequences of carelessness, so my nature is to exercise extreme care when hooking up. I never even leave my strap on a bass during set breaks. Heck, I don't even trust guitar stands. That said, sometimes stuff just happens... no matter how careful you are.
Personally, I like these D'Addario buttons:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/strap-buttons-for-fretted-instruments/daddario-planet-waves-metal-guitar-strap-buttons?rNtt=planet%20waves%20strap%20button%20&index=2 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/strap-buttons-for-fretted-instruments/daddario-planet-waves-metal-guitar-strap-buttons?rNtt=planet%20waves%20strap%20button%20&index=2)
I put a set of the brass ones on my Persuader last year, and liked them so well that I bought three more sets for other basses.
Should I be rethinking this? It is going on a custom Alembic after all. Keep in mind, they'll be going on an Anniversary Omega body five-string. (which is a tad smaller than a Standard Omega body)
-
Alembics come standard with Schaller strap locks. I've been using them since the late 70's without any problems. I like the fact that they are U shaped so if by some chance the pin comes out of the hole they will still hold the bass. The nut on the strap portion can get loose but all I do is add a dab of blue loctite when I tighten it and have never had one come apart. Personally I won't play any instrument I own standing up without some type of strap lock system.
If you want to be really sure you could use Stanley Clarke's method. He takes a long screw and a washer to permanently attach the strap to the bass.
Keith
-
I'm totally with Keith on this, especially the U shaped part. I don't trust the little ball bearings on the Dunlop style. I also don't like when manufacturers recess those ones into the body. I did the washer thing here and there, but eventually put Schallers on all my basses.
-
Schaller strap locks for me as well .
I use just a tiny bit of Blue Loctite 242 on the threads for the strap parts. Just a tiny bit . Have a nice rag handy if you need to clean up the strap a bit afterward.
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/t_lkr_blue/overview/Loctite-Threadlocker-Blue-242.htm (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/t_lkr_blue/overview/Loctite-Threadlocker-Blue-242.htm)
I do not advise using the Red Loctite for this application.
Wolf
-
The only issue I've ever had with Schallers is the screw backing out once, but I felt it wobble before it came totally out and now I regularly ensure the screws are in tight.
-
Schaller. On every electric I own or ever had care of. Period.
(Yes, including '53 Les Paul & '59 ES-330-TD).
Peter (who will pass on the vintage-correct sound of headstock hitting floor, thank you very much)
-
I use the Schaller straplpocks on all my basses and guitars. Like Bsee mentions, I think you have to check the screw and the strap fixing regularly as they do work loose over time.
A college lecturers mantra to us during our engineering apprenticeship was, if it moves...... or gets warm........, yaw cn bet yawer bottom dollar it'll wear ewt and bray-eek...... check iiit.
(for the non UK guy's, thats me trying to write in phonetic brummie)
-
Thanks for all the feedback fellas!
Well, clearly I'm in a minority on this one, and you guys surly have the experienced voice. =)
Since I've got plenty of time to ponder options, maybe what I should do is try a set of Schallers on my Persuader for a while this Summer and see if I warm to them.
Thanks All!
-
And you're hilarious Jazzy! Next time you're oh-vahh hee-ahh, I'll teach you some Southwest Virginia Brummie that would baffle even my (ancestral) homefolks in old Huncote.
Brits & Americans - two peoples separated by a common language... indeed. =)
-
I used Stanley's approach, I took my strap locks off, got two wood screws, four 3/4 washers (two for each end) and screwed them right into the bass and I don't ever have to worry about the strap slipping off the holder!!
-
Schallers are my first choice. The one exception is on guitars that have the strap button on the back of the neck. In this position I prefer the Dunlops as the Schallers tend to stick out more, are relatively sharp, and poke me in the tummy as I play. And, of course, I ALWAYS check the buttons and locking part on the strap to make sure everything is tight.
Bill, tgo
-
Interesting, Bill; that's the last place I would go with Dunlop, given their push-to-release design, and neither I nor anyone I roadied for ever had a complaint about pokage. And although I will admit I now have considerably more belly to push on the back with than you do, I went 100% Schaller 100 lbs ago. Besides, that U channel does make me feel all warm & fuzzy.
Peter
-
I've done what Bill has on my SC, although I use the Schallers on all others. Like Bill said, the button on the SC kept poking me. I also use Locktite on the strap parts and the screw into the bass. Since doing so several years ago, I haven't had any issue with looseness, although the parts can still be disassembled when necessary.
Jon
-
Schaller's all the way! For the small handful of my guitars that have a strap button on the back, I go with the rubber washer technique.
-
FWIW, another famous Alembican emailed me privately, they use Dunlop straplocks *without* using the locking mechanism. They're physically larger buttons, making it very difficult to accidentally unhook your strap when used like that. But then so are the ones I currently use.
Of the straplocks I've looked at, I like the Schallers best... very solid *snap* when they engage, and as Keith and Coz pointed out, the U-shaped design would still hold even if the lock failed.
I dunno... I mean, bottom line - however unlikely, it's more hardware to fail, and another fastener to make sure is tight. Plus, as a matter of habit, I never, *ever*, let go of my bass anyway. I can't imagine the Vulcan-like mindset changing even with the added safety of straplocks in place, so there isn't really much to lose by trying them for a while.
As a humorous aside, I was talking to another guitar player about this yesterday, who often (for good-natured sport) questions my thing for finer musical instruments. They were like - Are you serious!? You're actually spending time thinking about what strap buttons to put on a bass!? My reply, Well... yeah, of course I'm serious... why would I not?
This just in folks - we're different. I have to assume that's how we all ended up here.
-
So long as everyone understands that this is true only with the newer style Dunlop straplocks. The vintage style (which they still sell) do not have the larger buttons and would be a disaster waiting to happen without the locking mechanism.
-
Double Post
(Message edited by jalevinemd on July 12, 2015)
-
I've got Schallers on everything. Fender used to sell the Schaller strap buttons as a spare part, as some of their instruments were built with Schallers.
This allows you to have Schallers on everything without requrieing a strap for each instrument.
I did have a Schaller wear out. It had been on the bas for 25+ years.
-
Huh - I hadn't even thought of that bonus fmm... that's a great point - THANKS! I suppose the only catch might be needing a different strap length for different shaped basses so they wear about the same.
I'm ordering a set of gold Schallers later today. Going to give them a try on my Persuader for a while. I really appreciate all the advice fellas!
BTW - fmm, not sure if you ever saw the post, but my bass is the sister to your old Spoiler #5560... just one serial number apart. (mine is #5559)
-
Edward: I did see that, small world.
When I get a new student, I usually buy them a set of straplocks, and install them. The original strp buttons go in a zip lock bag in the bass case (or gig bag).
If they trade that bass off to get a new one, they can replace the original buttoms and keep the strap locks.
-
I've had one of my Schallers go down. It was on my Europa bass the one on the upper horn wore out a flat spot and then the button on the strap got stuck when I pulled it to remove the strap. Other than that I think they are all fine. The oldest is on my 1992 strat ultra and it came as standard.
-
I'm swimming upstream here.
I had the Schallers and ultimately went back to the Dunlops; I got tired of pulling on that 20# spring they use and I was always afraid I'd scratch the axe with that 'horeshoe'-shaped part on the strap. And somehow it seems more intuitive to push the button on the Dunlops than to pull the stem on the Schallers.
Go figure . . . . .
Joey
-
I'm with you Joey. I prefer the Dunlops for lower profile, and less chance of scratching my finish. I have both on various instruments in my collection, but find the countersunk Dunlop barrel to be the most resistant to allowing the screws to back out. The barrel is fully supported by the wood around it, and thus you eliminate the leverage factor that causes the screws to loosen and tear the wood from the threads.
-
I just got a set of gold Schaller strap locks out of the mailbox... =) Will try to install them later this evening for a trial-run Sunday at a block party gig.
-
Here's what I don't like about Straplocks - the false sense of security. Just because they say lock in the name doesn't mean you don't have to check them. It's nice to add the Locktite as Keith pointed out, but on the instrument end, the wood cells will still suffer from compression over time - they can't avoid it. So it's really important to check at least once a month that the anchor isn't coming loose. Yes, the recessed Dunlops do better, but compression will still happen.
This is true for regular strap pins as well.
-
Installed...
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/211171.jpg)
-
I had a button unscrew on my Jazz Bass years ago when I first started using the Schallers. Although the screw would tightened the hole was slightly oversized from the original screw. I fixed this but also got in the habit of giving the buttons a spin everytime I pick up an instrument. If the button moves I know it needs tightening.
Keith
-
Also, be really careful with the tiny little knob that you pull up on - that can come unscrewed. I have a bad habit of fiddling with things like that while I'm talking, etc., and once while I was standing there with my bass I managed to unscrew that button - it came flying off, the spring went shooting out - fortunately I was holding the bass so it didn't hit the ground! Never did find the spring! It was on my Stanley Clarke bass - like Bill TGO it was always poking me (the one on the back of the body) so I have just left it off...
-
Been trying these out this evening... I'm not 100% sold yet, but they bug me a lot less than they did.
Pros:
I swear it sounds silly, but I think the bass actually wears and balances better with them than with regular buttons.
Let's face it, gold plating is pretty awesome.
They look nice and appropriate to the rest of the instrument.
Cons:
I can't get past the feeling like there's slop in the fasteners connection to the strap pieces.
I totally see what you guys mean about loctite. Definitely needs some kind of stick-um on these threads.
I might actually get used to them... more later.
-
Okay, I'm sold - gold Schaller strap locks it is. I've tried them every way imaginable, and I get it now. I refuse to think of them as a safety net, but they are an added level of caution, albeit a passive one. They look nice too, and maybe I can use this same strap on my custom fretless. (one day!)
Totally unanticipated bonus - I wouldn't have thought the extra 1/4 of offset created by the upper horn straplock would matter, but there is a *definite* difference in the balance of my slightly neck-heavy Persuader. It wears naturally about 10-4 now, versus 9-3 without.
Thanks for the pointers fellas... I love this place! =) I'm off to find some blue loctite.
-
I too have Schallers on everything. My basses are rather heavy, and over time the ring around the top of the button will wear down. Once the ring wears the locking mechanism will stop working.
-
What you can do is drill two 1/4 holes straight through the neck around the 14th fret or so (more or less) and stick two bolts through 'em, slap some nuts on there and crank 'em down until you hear the wood crack (this may take more torque on a Series II because of the extra laminations).
Then drill some more holes and mount a U-bolt off the universal joint of your yard car on either side of the neck and beat the crap out of the endy part of the U so it kinda flops over (placement can be adjusted with a hammer or by dropping the guitar on concrete steps just right) and stick some more bolts or screws in the body somewhere nearby.
Attach a turnbuckle between that there U-bolt and whatever's handy (you can even use the bolts you just stuck through the body, unless those are for decoration) and crank the turnbuckles until your arm gets tired or the screwdriver bends.
Attach your strap to the ... Hey, waitaminnit. Well, I guess you can just use a regular strap button, but me, I'd drive a railroad spike through the headstock and ...
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/211851.jpg)
(I came upon that pic years ago and every time I look at it, I laugh and try to put myself inside the mind of the lunkhead who did that. The turnbuckles just SLAY me! Can you imagine what it must have sounded like, crankin' those babies right into the wood? Okay, a little more! HmmmPH! Almost there! [crack!] Yup!)
(Message edited by Ed_zeppelin on August 10, 2015)
-
Actually . . . . I'm surprised no one has commented on the difference in tone with the Dunlops vs. the Schallers.
Joey
-
But remember, you can't fairly compare the tone of nickel Dunlops to gold Schallers.......
Peter (who can, if required, sniff cork with the best of them)
(Well, not really - check out the Vintage Les Pauls subforum at mylespaul.com some time to find true masters of sniffery.)
-
That's pretty bad Ed Zep... I think the worst that ever came through my shop was an Englehardt bass with a couple pieces of angle iron securing the neck to what was left of the block. (I probably have seen worse - that's just the first one that comes to mind) It's never occurred to me to snap a picture, but I do have a pretty diverse collection of hardware I've pulled out of upright basses over the years... there's some real head-scratchers in that drawer.
Joey & Peter, I just figured Alembic had already pre-engineered the tonal difference between the various platings, and simply applied whatever was needed. Besides that, we all know it's really about how long the mounting screws are. =)
All jokes aside, I really am liking the Schallers... I don't trust them any more or less, but I will concede they are an upgrade to what I had.
-
Take a look at this 350-year-old Venetian Violone (double bass) The description and pics are just astonishing, especially when you consider all the wars (and bassists) this thing survived, in a very watery environment.
http://www.contrabass.co.uk/2790.htm (http://www.contrabass.co.uk/2790.htm)
There's a pic of the bass before restoration and if you click it, it opens a slide show of the innards. Fascinating stuff. Can you imagine lugging that thing around on carriages and gondolas?
By the way, note three and a half centuries of fingerboard wear. It looks like nobody played above the second position until recently.
-
Thanks for that^^^... Now that's what I call a total rebuild! And I was not aware they ever used pearwood for ribs!
Reminds me, if I ever get my shop cleaned out, (pfft... don't hold your breath) I have an old unattributed double bass to rebuild. It's a mess right now, but when it was playable, it was absolutely deafening. I'm strongly considering a five-string conversion, just because the neck is massively HUGE 2-1/4 wide at the nut. Ordinarily you wouldn't alter an antique like this, but this one is so poorly preserved and already been altered from it's original(?) 3-string configuration, that it has little value. Although since it was a gift from a mentor from many years ago, it has enormous sentimental value to me.
Oh well, another one for my Shop thread. =)
-
Hanging out with other members of the violin family, in a dusty corner of my music room.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/211912.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/211913.jpg)
-
I use Schaller everything, wherever possible. There, I said it.
Twenty years ago the band I was in was invited to tour the UK on a self-financed (I.e. cheap) 42 date tour of England, Scotland and Ireland.
Lugging the Anvil flight case with my long-scale series1 in it (it fit in the back of a London cab with four people, no prob) was turning my right hand into something out of a Vincent Price movie.
Reasoning that I needed to sling that sucker over my shoulder or get used to playing bass by using my right hand as a club (the Lemmy technique), I took the Schaller straplocks off my guitar and went into an unbelievably filthy junk shop in Glasgow:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/211918.jpg)
.. And with the help of a surly, incomprehensible proprietor, I drilled a couple of holes in the road case and bolted strap buttons on over 2-inch washers (apparently left over from the Crimean War) inside and out, to distribute the weight.
I attached the straplocks on a seatbelt hacked from a car out back (with more washers, of course) paid him what I assume was an exorbitant amount of their money, judging from the fact that it was the only time I saw him smile, and effected my egress.
It worked a treat, as they say (I think). I finished the tour with a pronounced 45-degree starboard list to my spine from lugging that monstrosity around on my shoulder, but at least my right hand didn't become some kind of crab claw thing on the end of my arm.
They're still there. The seatbelt is hanging on my studio wall, handy for self defense if nothing else (I ain't picking that damn road case up again, ever) but I know if I had to, those Schallers would hold up just dandy.
-
My new to me alembic has the recessed dunlop straplocks and also they are fitted to locations not standard for short scales. I was wondering if there is an adaptor to plug in that will allow me to use schallers instead. But i think it would be better to drill and install some schallers.
-
May I suggest that you try a Gruv Gear DuoStrap and install Dunlop's? I use several DuoStraps with both Schaller and Dunlips, depending on the bass. I don't like putting new holes in my basses. Just a thought. The DuoStrap gives you plenty of adjustment possibilities.
-
May I suggest that you try a Gruv Gear DuoStrap and install Dunlop's? I use several DuoStraps with both Schaller and Dunlips, depending on the bass. I don't like putting new holes in my basses. Just a thought. The DuoStrap gives you plenty of adjustment possibilities.
-
DuoStraps in DoublePost
-
I dont like that idea really but the original holes are plugged so its only reopening an old wound. :-)
-
There is a sort of reasoning as to why and where I placed the buttons on Jazzy's series 1.
As you can see, one of the previous owners to me tried a number of button placements and broke a screw off in the neck. I wanted to remove it and the only way I felt I could was to use a recessed button which would give me room to remove the broken screw. I placed the recessed button on the headstock side for better balancing. I used schallers for some years back in the early 80's and then changed to dunlops as I dont like the pressure applied to the wood by the extra leverage of schallers causing the hole to widen over time.
I know the dunlop copies dont hold well but as far as dunlops , I have never had a set fail me over 40 or 50 guitars and basses. I know what you schaller guys mean though as I did feel comfortable knowing the button is cupped in.
By the way Jazzyvee ,just so you know, the little inlay dot of pearl where the original back button goes is just pressed in by hand, I think that original hole is still unfilled.
-
Ok. Is the original hole position for the neck just plugged also or was there a screw previously broken off in there too?
-
>>> one of the previous owners to me tried a number of button placements and broke a screw off in the neck.
-
I'm thinking of adding more to Roymus's great job on refinishing the bass by getting some new hat knobs and possibly a bridge rehab kit also. I also want to change the pointy knob on the pickup selector switch to a round one as i want to turn it round so the selection are the same way round as my other series basses. If i just turn the pointy switch round i will more likely catch my fingers on slap tunes. Not sure if Alembic still have round ones as spares but I will contact Mica sometime this week and find out what's available. But if anyone has a spare one I can take it off your hands. :-)
-
If the knob is the same as what I had ordered on my Series 1 it is pretty common so you shouldn't have any problem ordering one from Alembic. I've been thinking about doing the same for my Brown Bass.
Keith
-
There was only one screw broken off in that bass and I am pretty sure it was right next to the recessed dunlop. the other hole/s are just dowelled and filled.
By the way I had also laquered the tailpiece and other brass bits, maybe not the bridge though.
-
I have Schallers on all of my basses except one, which has the Dunlop locks (a Nordstrand Nj6, which, I might add, is currently for sale). To me, the Schallers are the superior choice. That said, given my Alembic sixes are on the heavy side, the strap button tends to wear over time so they no longer lock. You'll know when it starts to happen, and it's best to replace the button sooner rather than later to avoid an accident. I've also had to have my primary six drilled and doweled several times over the last 25 years as the wood doesn't hold even the longest screws forever if you use the ax frequently.
-
Schaller always in all instruments. For me are the strongest ones, just take care as mica and others said to readjust once a month or so.
-
I'm glad to have the Schallers on my Alembics. While I do love the look of the recessed Dunlops on my Fodera, and the Dunlops that have a usable strap button in case the strap pin breaks are great (Warwick), I've loved Schallers since I put a set on my Stingray in 1980. Never had a problem, even when one of the springs broke. The U channel was sufficiently supportive to get me through the rest of the night. Much cheaper than replacing the headstock.