Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Owning an Alembic => Fun Stories => Topic started by: kilowatt on March 20, 2005, 08:55:50 AM
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I am curios of how SF-2 users are running their systems. I use mine in the effects loop of my F-1X and am looping from channel A to channel B and back to the pre-amp. I would like to see how everyone else is setting up and what filter, frequency, dampening ratio and gain settings are being used. This is an amazing tool, but can be a little frustrating if you are not accustomed to the controls. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Pete
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Hi Pete, I'm currently running the SF-2 in the effects loop of my amp, but I have also walked the stereo path (preamp setting > two amps). Make no mistake, the SF-2 is the ultimate tweaking tool, and you just have to discover it yourself. The settings in the manual are a nice starting point. But to start from scratch just use one channel, set the damping ratio on 7 to 10 and vary the filter setting per filter type. That way you can slowly but surely get to know the SF-2, and you'll be able to get the sound you're hearing in your head pretty soon.
Good luck,
Wilfred
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Here are my SF-2 settings. When you plug your input into channel A and your output is from channel B, you have, essentially, a 3 channel mixer. The three channels are parallel and are combined at the output.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/17351.jpg)
The knob to the left, the input gain, is, in this configuaration, the master volume; and I leave it maxed.
The first filter I have set for low pass. I pretty much always leave the frequency setting where it is in the pic and the damping ratio all the way down. I adjust the filter gain depending on the room I'm in and the cabs I'm using. A typical adjustment might be from 4 to 5. These setting give me a nice broad and even low end.
The second filter I have set for high pass. Again, I pretty much always leave the frequency setting where it is in the pic and the damping ratio at 1.5. And again, I adjust the filter gain depending on the room and cabs. A typical adjustment here might be from 7 to 6. These settings give me a broad and even high end.
The direct gain knob is the third channel and is the dry signal. I also adjust this setting depending on the room and cabs. A typical adjustment here might be from 6 to 7 and is often made in conjunction with an opposite adjustment to the high pass filter gain. For instance, going from 6 to 6.5 on the direct gain and at the same time from 7 to 6.5 on the high pass filter can make a big difference in the sound. Adding more direct gain and backing off the gains on the low pass and high pass channels will of course give me more mid range punch.
These settings work with all my Alembics. Note however, that my sound has very little in the way of growl or low-mid punch; it is very clean with clear low end and a lot of broad high end. I would imagine that my sound is not what most players are after.
Don't let yourself become frustrated. It can take a long time to get used to the SF-2; but learning how to use it can be fun. It took me a while to get to the settings that I use; but fortunatley for me, I enjoy practicing.
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Thanks Wilfred and Dave, your advice came in very handy. Once you have a solid point to start from, doing small amounts of tweaking to hit the right personal sound is not all that difficult. Again, I thank you for your help. Pete
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Can an SF-2 be used through an on board effects loop on a guitar?
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In the absence of a F2-B, I'm just wondering if I can use the SF-2 sort of as if it was an F2-B? By that I mean plug my two DS-5 outs into individual channel of the SF-2 then get a single combined output into my F1-x in the signal path. That way I can eq each channel separately using the filter then fine tune with the F1-x?
Is this possible or even a good idea?
Yes, I do have two F1-x's but two in a rack with the rest of my stuff is a PIA to carry. So i use the 2nd F1-x in a 3U rack with just the DS-5 when I travel light to gigs and that works well.
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Can an SF-2 be used through an on board effects loop on a guitar?
Sure, why not? :-) That's actually a cool idea, you can bring in and out the EQ as a preset at the flip of an onboard switch.
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In the absence of a F2-B, I'm just wondering if I can use the SF-2 sort of as if it was an F2-B? By that I mean plug my two DS-5 outs into individual channel of the SF-2 then get a single combined output into my F1-x in the signal path. That way I can eq each channel separately using the filter then fine tune with the F1-x?
Is this possible or even a good idea?
Yes, I do have two F1-x's but two in a rack with the rest of my stuff is a PIA to carry. So i use the 2nd F1-x in a 3U rack with just the DS-5 when I travel light to gigs and that works well.
It's sort of doable. What it's missing is the ability to blend the channels. There's no internal mixing stage in the stereo mode. However, you could probably hook up a small external mixer to combine the outputs of both channels.
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In the absence of a F2-B, I'm just wondering if I can use the SF-2 sort of as if it was an F2-B? By that I mean plug my two DS-5 outs into individual channel of the SF-2 then get a single combined output into my F1-x in the signal path. That way I can eq each channel separately using the filter then fine tune with the F1-x?
Is this possible or even a good idea?
Yes, I do have two F1-x's but two in a rack with the rest of my stuff is a PIA to carry. So i use the 2nd F1-x in a 3U rack with just the DS-5 when I travel light to gigs and that works well.
It's sort of doable. What it's missing is the ability to blend the channels. There's no internal mixing stage in the stereo mode. However, you could probably hook up a small external mixer to combine the outputs of both channels.
Wouldn't the blend be accomplished by the amount of gain on the neck & bridge pickups?
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In the absence of a F2-B, I'm just wondering if I can use the SF-2 sort of as if it was an F2-B? By that I mean plug my two DS-5 outs into individual channel of the SF-2 then get a single combined output into my F1-x in the signal path. That way I can eq each channel separately using the filter then fine tune with the F1-x?
Is this possible or even a good idea?
Yes, I do have two F1-x's but two in a rack with the rest of my stuff is a PIA to carry. So i use the 2nd F1-x in a 3U rack with just the DS-5 when I travel light to gigs and that works well.
It's sort of doable. What it's missing is the ability to blend the channels. There's no internal mixing stage in the stereo mode. However, you could probably hook up a small external mixer to combine the outputs of both channels.
Wouldn't the blend be accomplished by the amount of gain on the neck & bridge pickups?
Not as a single output. In stereo mode, the SF-2 is completely, discretely stereo. The blend could easily be accomplished as you say, but only by combining the signal after the SF-2. However, you could also run the whole thing mono and that would take care of that.
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I have a F-2B & SF-2 & run a psuedo stereo setup with each pickup into a seperate channel on the F-2B then combined output of the F-2B into Channel A on the SF-2 in mono mode & out of Channel B into my power amp. I have my direct box in between the F-2B & SF-2 so I use the SF-2 to EQ my stage sound just for me without affecting the FOH mix. I use my pickup gains to acheive the blend I want between bass & treble. With this setup I can have seperate EQ for each pickup with the F-2B & adjust the overall tone I'm hearing on stage with the SF-2. This setup only requires one speaker cabinet but give me the benefit of seperate channels for each pickup. It's not as good as true stereo but much more portable & more than adequate to get an amazing tone with my Series II.
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I have a F-2B & SF-2 & run a psuedo stereo setup with each pickup into a seperate channel on the F-2B then combined output of the F-2B into Channel A on the SF-2 in mono mode & out of Channel B into my power amp. I have my direct box in between the F-2B & SF-2 so I use the SF-2 to EQ my stage sound just for me without affecting the FOH mix. I use my pickup gains to acheive the blend I want between bass & treble. With this setup I can have seperate EQ for each pickup with the F-2B & adjust the overall tone I'm hearing on stage with the SF-2. This setup only requires one speaker cabinet but give me the benefit of seperate channels for each pickup. It's not as good as true stereo but much more portable & more than adequate to get an amazing tone with my Series II.
Are you still using ears? I have my bass going to my ears and FOH in stereo and often to the stage amp in mono, since it doesn't really need to be in stereo on stage. OTOH, it's fun when it is!
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Hey Edwin, my previous description was for my band setup. I am no longer in that band & just playing for my church now. I use the in ears for church with no amp or SF-2. We have Roland M-48 individual monitor mixers for each person in the band & it has individual channel EQ, reverb & limiter so I can get a studio quality mix with my in ears without any outboard gear.
You said you are running in stereo with you in ears? Does it sound weird having the bass pickup in one ear & the treble pickup in the other? Or did you mean stereo in the sense that you have different instruments in each ear?
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Stereo in the sense that I have a stereo mix going to my ears and that the bass has two channels, one for each pickup, but I rarely pan them all the way wide. No real reason to do that, but eq'ing them separately, etc., is very helpful to a nice clear sound.
Typically I have the drums panned drummer's perspective, lead guitar and bass in the center, and rhythm guitar and keys following the layout on stage, however that turns out to be.
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It makes sense to pan the instruments according to where they are on stage. I would do it that way too if I was still in the band. We can do panning at church too but I haven't tried it. We have 2 bass players so I try not to make too many changes when I play.
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It makes sense to pan the instruments according to where they are on stage. I would do it that way too if I was still in the band. We can do panning at church too but I haven't tried it. We have 2 bass players so I try not to make too many changes when I play.
2 bass players at once? I love doing that!
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No, we alternate services so we try to leave the settings alone for each other.
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I am curios of how SF-2 users are running their systems. I use mine in the effects loop of my F-1X and am looping from channel A to channel B and back to the pre-amp. I would like to see how everyone else is setting up and what filter, frequency, dampening ratio and gain settings are being used. This is an amazing tool, but can be a little frustrating if you are not accustomed to the controls. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Pete
Rather than start a whole new thread,... I thought I'd just bump this old one with a question or ten. ;D I don't have the manual (yet) and the download-able one here at the Club isn't available right now.
For now, (I think) I want to use the SF-2 in the effects loop of my F-1X as currently connected to my power-amp rig... how can I safely connect it this way?
Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using the mono/stereo selector on the back panel in this mode?
Any other advice appreciated. I kinda' know where I need to get with this thing, but I'm not nearly smart enough to understand it... ::)
*pictures would be great! :)
**an explanation of "looping from Channel A to Channel B, and back to the preamp" is really what I'm trying to do. (at least I think it is)
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Gregory, if you send me you email address (mine is in my profile) I will email you a pdf of the manual.
Bill, tgo
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Thanks Bill, ping sent. ;)
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Email with attached manual sent. Enjoy!
Bill, tgo
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I've got some serious reading to do to understand all the filtering modes, but these two diagrams are exactly what I needed to get connected. Thanks so much Bill. :D
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I use mine as the first diagram "Used as a preamp" and so far I have only used it for reggae as I really only need to get the real bottom end controlled and everything else happens from the bass.
I have another one in my large rack which is patched through the f1-x send and return and that I feel works best for when I need the sound of the F1-x more and use the SF-2 as a sweetener.
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I've only used it in the most elementary way so far Jazzy, in mono, patched in the effects loop of my F-1X, but already I can see what the fuss is about! I'm in the very early learning phases of what this box can do... trying out some of the suggested settings has been most educational.
Right now, (and for quite some time now) I have had my F-1X set up in bi-amp mode, using the 'Low-Pass' and 'High-Pass' outputs, sending lower frequencies to Ch. 1 of the power-amp, and those above the crossover point on the sweep to Ch. 2. This has worked very well for me.
My next experiment here, may be to take the 'Full Range' output of the F-1X to the SF-2, jumping through Ch. A and Ch. B, switched to stereo, and send the output to the power-amp, as shown in the diagram above. My power-amp has pre-programmed crossover setpoints, I'll have to switch to...
It's a lot to think about, but I get it. And I have yet to plug an Alembic bass into it... so far, two Gibsons and a Guild! ;D
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This is a pretty happy place. For me at least... probably not so much for the neighbors and woodland creatures around here. ::)
*The test subject this morning was a Gibson Q-80, (a weirdo Nashville 'floor-sweep' model marked "Custom Shop", from '86-'87, like a mahogany Victory bass, crossed with a Grabber, and an Explorer) totally passive, everything wide open, strung with flats. This bass is kinda' ho-hum, until now!
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"This bass is kinda' ho-hum, until now!"
That's a great description of what the SF-2 can do for a non-Alembic instrument!
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:D
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Starfire + SF-2 = Big Smile :)
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Starfire + SF-2 = Big Smile :)
Indeed it does, Rob. ;D
I quickly realized though, that I needed to conduct the initial learning experience with something less complex than the Guild. I moved from the Gibsons to the Starfire, and tried soloing each pickup and dialing in a tone I liked, then bringing in them up together. It's really kinda' overwhelming to think about if you're not careful...
I have now made the correlation between the controls on each of the SF-2 channels and the controls on a Series bass... once that happened, it became a lot easier to understand what I was doing. Still not sure if I quite get my head around the differences/advantages of selecting high pass, band pass, or low pass filter mode. I'm just taking the advice of the suggested settings in the manual, and adjusting to taste. All in good time I guess... ::)
So now that I've figured out how to make adjustments toward sounds I like, here's my question for today: How can I bypass the SF-2 so that I can hear the unfiltered signal? (keep in mind, it's patched in the effects loop of my F-1X) I'd like to see how far off of zero I'm getting, as I make adjustments. Is there a way to do this?
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Filters are pretty easy to understand with just a bit of experience with them. I am certain your understand the filters in your Series 1, so using that as a reference point should make this digestible.
Low Pass: The lows pass through. The Q or resonance accentuates the cutoff frequency which is the point at which the filter is cutting off the highs.
High Pass: basically the opposite of a low pass filter. Here is a trick, a high pass filter can actually make your low end bigger and bassier. Remove just a bit of low end and use the Q to accentuate the frequency you want, say 40hz. It also gives your amps more headroom because they don’t have to produce sub bass that is unusable.
Band pass is basically like having a low pass and high pass filter effecting your input. I would have to look at the controls to give specifics but some time you can control the width of the frequency band that passes through the filter (what you hear). I am sure you can adjust the what frequencies are at the center of the high pass filter (thus adjusting all frequencies that pass through).
Notch filters remove specific frequencies (like an inverted bandpass). Good for giving other instruments room in a mix.
Peaks filter basically just emphasize specific frequencies. Good for cutting through the mix or owning specific frequency ranges. I like to use these on bass\kick drums but is definitely handy for bass.
There are other types like all pass, no pass and specifics like how many poles and DBs the cutoff cuts out, etc. But the above info, should conceptually provide some building blocks in what I hope is kind of layman’s terms. With the SF2 you get to combine filter types so that has is really cool and definitely is a lot to learn/experiment with.
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Here are some SF-2 settings I'm liking for the Starfire. I set it like this with both pickups enabled, both volumes on full, both tone pots on full, baritone (suck) switch disengaged, then I have some local adjustments at the point-of-use.
Note that I have adjusted the F-1X crossover setpoint upward a bit to play with it. Ordinarily I would have this crossed over around 100-125 Hz. Just an experiment. ;)
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I've been thinking about how to answer my own question from the other day, about how to bypass the SF-2. This isn't exactly how I want to do it, but someone tell me if I'm thinking the right way or 180° off...
If I select high-pass of Ch A, and set the filter to the lowest extreme of 45 Hz, then select low-pass for Ch B and set the filter to the highest setting of 6 KHz, would that not effectively be passing everything through? Also in this scenario, I leave the Dampening Ratios all the way down and the Gains even with each other. It definitely sounds 'dry'. Just not sure what I'm doing is really getting me anything useful... it takes too long to get readjusted from zero.
*here, like this:
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That sounds right.
You could also drop both the filter gains to 0 and make a couple adjustments on the direct gains for a dry signal.
I could see real use for a two button bypass footswitch,
that'd be fairly easy to do too.
(My first thought was Phil bombs ;) )
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...drop both the filter gains to 0 and make a couple adjustments on the direct gains for a dry signal.
...I could see real use for a two button bypass footswitch,
that'd be fairly easy to do too.
(My first thought was Phil bombs ;) )
:o That may have just set off an a-ha moment, Bro. Elwood. Okay, lemme think about that a while, and try it this evening with Filter Gains at 0.
I can see a bypass button being of benefit right now, maybe only because I don't know yet how to get the most from this wonderful thing. I'm getting there quickly though. The manual advises that you "think backwards" which ironically always came a little bit naturally to me!
I just spent a couple hours building/modifying a set of casterboards to get my speakers up off the floor in an effort to not only de-couple them, but make them easier to move out of the corner of my practice room.
Bombs. Yessir. I can bring 'em now. What few neighbors I have are wondering what the ham-sandwich is going on over here. ::)
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You could also drop both the filter gains to 0 and make a couple adjustments on the direct gains for a dry signal.
That’s exactly what I do. That said, I almost never take the SF-2 out my chain, and when I do it’s to quickly hear my tone without it for reference purposes.
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Here are my current settings when using the SF-2 as a pre-amp. At the moment I'm only using this setup for reggae gigs. I tend to make small adjustments if the sound is too boomy in the room or i'm set up on a hollow boxy stage. For this genre I tend to base my sound on the neck pickup which again usually has it's filter fully closed and no Q. The bridge pickup is usually on fully open but I only bring in a smidgen of that pickup using the pan pot in order to keep the clarity if I want to change the tone for a different style of reggae bass line I then close the filter down to between half way and closed and move the pan a bit more towards the centre to bring in the bridge pickup. that seems to work for me. I'm really happy using the SF-2 as a preamp now. I do think i'd find it harder for non reggae genres. In that case I would prefer to use the SF-2 in the send and return loop of an F1-x so I can add just as much as I need, which usually isn't much.
The picture shows the setting I used for my gig this past Saturday night when I was not playing through the PA. My cab is a nice clean honest sounding Barefaced Big Twin II.
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Been spending some time getting more proficient with the SF-2 controls... I'm now able to dial-in what I want fairly quickly from zero, using music chosen completely at random. Just pick something from the pile and try to figure out how to make the bass sound 'right'. I actually missed having it at a gig last weekend... that can't be good!
I've mostly been using it with the Starfire basses. It's completely turned me around on one of them that has the old 70's Westerly pickups. I always felt that they were kinda' muddy sounding, but they really come to life when fed through this rig. And the Bisonics on my old '67 are positively vicious sounding. I've put a couple passive Gibsons to the test too, and even a couple piezo-equipped Turners. Rounds, flats, picks, fingers, all these different combinations to try.
I've yet to plug any Alembic bass into it though. I'm saving that for graduation day... I still have a lot to learn.
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I tried an SF-2 as a pre-amp with my guitar today.... man did it sound incredible. I was at a friend's rehearsal studio trying out a new barefaced guitar cab and tried the guitar through the F1-x, then patched in the SF-2 in the send and then tried it on it's own and it sounds fantastic. I was doing everything clean, no effects even my guitar playing band members were impressed by the sound. I used my Alembic powered 84 strat and as it happens my mate's strat is an 84 USA strat so it was good to hear the comparison. He does have a treble boost in his which sounds really good and they both sounded great through my alembic preamps.
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In Greg’s pictures above, the F-1X volume is all the way to 0. Wouldn’t that setting result in no signal going to the SF-2 or the power amp?
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For speaker safety, I always, always, ALWAYS, park gain or input volume at 0. ;) Note there is no cable plugged into the F-1X yet... once there is, I would then increase to something between 7-8.
(But you are 100% correct)