Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Owning an Alembic => Fun Stories => Topic started by: alemboid on October 10, 2004, 07:37:56 PM
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Hey friends,
Have you ever noticed that guitar, keyboard, drum players can play any make or model and not be ridiculed for what they use?
More New York bass players are complaining about the reaction they get when they pull out their Ken Smiths, Alembics, Roscoes, Laklands and others. This is as bad as telling someone that they are less ideal for having dark hair or skin, too short, or tall. Do we tell others what they should play? Isn't it about the player's ability and quality of tone?
I feel this is a serious infringement on a very personal matter that other musicians fail to appreciate. Have you ever felt the heat for not playing a vintage Fender (for example)?
Alemboid
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Amen brother! I was out playing in Memphis, TN in the early 70's. I can't recount all the times I caught crap from fellow musicians because I played a Rickenbacker instead of a plank - I mean a Fender. Now, I've got nothing against Fenders, I've owned a bunch and actually enjoyed them, but nobody is going to tell me what the heck brand of instrument to play. I will say this, out here in Portland, OR, my Rickenbacker has been met with enthusiasm, and my Alembics, too! I always thought that musicians were supposed to be more open minded than the Ford vs. Chevy, or tastes-great vs. less-filling crowds!
Happy to be thumping an Alembic in Portland,
Reid
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Hey Reid,
Very interesting. I'm from Seattle, and one thing I noticed is no one questioned what bass I played there, whereas in the northeast, it's a different story. Hmmmmmm.
When I was a horn player, I told my teacher (Bill Mitchell) I wanted to play bass, and he told me the bass to get was a Precision Bass, as it was what bass players are playing. Well, many were then. Yet, it seems that attitude has stuck around in some areas around the country, despite advances made upon Leo Fender's 1950's technology.
Alemboid
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My favorite way to put them in their place:
Gee, the last gig, the drummer had these Rosewood Sonors and all DW hardware . . . and he REALLY knew how to tune them!
Did you roll those sticks before you bought 'em?
You know, you really should think about a Boogie and a PRS . . . is your tuner's batteries going out? Try mine.
That Berklee guy I played with last week . . . oh, you DON'T read music? I haven't seen a DX7 in a long time!
You get the idea.
J o e y
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I have this cheap old Fender P Bass, with really cheap pickups, and i have some several serious basses, but the musicians and crowd seems to like more the fender, they always say that it sound awsome...(i see deaf people, lol)
Does anyone have a similar xperience?
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As both a guitar player and a bass player, you get a far amount of ribbing from both camps. It just depends on what happens to be in-style at the moment. Back in the day, a guitar player had to have a Gibson or a Fender or you were made fun of. In the late '80's/very early '90's it was a Jackson. Now, everyone has a PRS. Bass was no different: J or P?. Rick's got a big shot in the arm of acceptance factor because of Chris Squire. I could go on...you get the point.
Personally, I say screw 'em all, play what you want. As long as your tone fits the music you're playing, who gives a sh*t what you're playing it on? Further, after the initial shock of taking it out of the case wears off, does anybody really care what you're playing once they figure out you REALLY know how to play? Conversely, guys with all the top-shelf equipment that really DON'T know how to play impress you right up until the music starts, LOL!
What's that line from the Ricky Nelson song...you can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself?
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A bit of nostalgia here: I bought a copy of Billy Cobham's Spectrum the other day and noticed that Lee Sklar is credited with playing Fender bass. The only other manufacturer specific credit goes to Jan Hammer for Moog synthesizer.
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Sometimes it can even be fellow bass players that cut our throats. i'm thinking in particular about carol kaye who hasn't anything good to say about any bass that isn't a 4 string jazz. talk about narrow minded, almost every interview I've read lately she's essentially been denouncing 5 and 6 string players just because she doesn't play more than 4.
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In the 70s, I used to belong to the American Federation of Musicians, Dubuque chapter. I remember they had a membership directory for contacting sidemen for pick-up gigs around the area. The listing by instruments section ONLY had upright bass and Fender Bass. (LOL)
I played a Guild Starfire.
Mike
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Stevie Ray ALWAYS introduced Tommy Shannon as being on the Fender Bass, even if he was playing his custom non-Fender, LOL! Old habits die hard.
Hell, I should talk: I had my Alembic Custom Fender-cized with the J activators and an Ash body, LOL! Old habits die hard, LOL!
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This thread and the one about the soundman/$500 bass are hysterical.
Personally Ive never gotten any flack for playing a cheap bass (Harmony/Kay) or an Alembic. Ive only had my Elan for a couple of months, so I could have it coming, LOL....
From my experiences, I've found that the most justified P-bass devotes are upright players with a minimalist philosophy in regards to what should come between the fingers and the ears. I tend to agree with them when it comes to their particular style. I guess anyone else is either brainwashed, jealous, or scared of change
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Thats just it some people are intimidated when you pull out your Rollsroyce,they'd rather see you in your chevy.......#@*%!!,,EM
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kevin.
I made a point of replacing the pickups etc on my 79 precision with rickenbacker pickups including the scratchplate. Sounds much nicer but still nowhere as nice as my epic.
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This topic kind of lends itself to (in my mind) a parallel with the topics of religion and politics.... there are such passionate arguments about it on both sides of the fence.
I actually consider myself fortunate - for not having such the narrow point of view that only one bass brand and/or one bass tone is the acceptable measure of what is THE bass.
I know this cat from highscool (25 years now), and back then his thing was Rickenbackers, a-la-Geddy Lee. He was also a huge Yes fan and the Ricko sound was IT. In the meantime I was into Larry Graham, Stanley Clarke, P-Funk - etc....
Now he is into Marcus Miller - and I am still into the same old thing (with a few added others, including Miller)... at the end of the day.... I appreciate the unique signature tones that different instruments contribute to the musical fabric - however, to me, a different bass tone is not really any different than say a synth bass, a rickenbacker, a fender, or a tobias.... just different colors in the musical palette....
My friend on the other hand thinks that Marcus' Fender tone is THE tone and that all others are a joke - and he'll tell you right to your face. As a matter of fact, he goes significantly out of his way to do everythhing that Marcus does.... which I find quite amusing - there's only one Marcus and though I think Miller is one of the most gifted bass players I have come across - I would not want my sound to be so like his that if anyone heard me they would think I am him - if anything - I would want to have a sound that is so unique and distinct that it can only be associated with me.
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A producer at a studio in NY where I do most of my session work was always amazed at the tone that came out of my Mark King. He often told me of all the other basses that came thru his studio (including Fenders)...he thought that the tone of mine was one of the the best he had heard.
At the end of one session, he asked me to come in the next week to lay some bass tracks for a personal project of his. He just finished complimenting my tone only minutes before, and in the next breath asked me could I bring a Jazz bass in for his session next week.
Well, I stood there in a foggy daze for a few moments, before I could mumble the words, Ok...I'll see what I can do.
Mikey
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A funny story:
Lee Sklar had what he called a producer switch installed on his favorite recording bass, a Yamaha. When the producer gave their usual drivel: I'm looking for more texture, I want it to be more like a Fender, I want the bass part to sound more purple or some other nonsense, Lee would flip this switch, which was nothing but a dummy toggle, and ask how's that?. After this, without exception, the producer would say that the difference was exactly what he was looking for!.
Try that next time! Flip one of your Q-switches and say Oh, this switch makes it sound more like a Fender!
By the way, the producer issue is somewhat true here in LA as well. They are just used to the way Fenders sound in a track. And they do sound good sometimes. But not unique, like an Alembic.
Mike
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Oh, and I can corroborate the story about the instrument being known as the Fender Bass -
I joined the Musician's Union in Detroit in the mid-80's. When I joined, I was given a booklet with all the local's members names in it, categorized by their instrument and sometimes a photo. There were three categories for bassists: Bass Viola (uprights, of course), Electric Bass (which was how I listed myself and showed a lot of young players), and the third category was Fender Bass, which showed consistently only players in their 50's or 60's.
I asked the union about this and they said For so many years, Fender was the only game in town for electric bass, so 'Fender Bass' became the generic term for the instrument (much like Kleenex or Xerox), and the term stuck through the ages. A lot of the old-timers, no matter what kind of bass you have, still refer to the instrument by habit (and quite lovingly, I might add) as a Fender Bass.
No harm, no foul. I think it's a charming throwback.
Mike
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Gee, and I thought that by switching to a darker short scale bass, no one would notice....yea, right.
I went to a jam session a while back and pulled out my Brown Bass. The guy currently playing bass came over on break and asked watcha playin' thar, boy? (Dude, I'm gonna be 50 this year ok???but thanks for the compliment) It's an Alembic (the Brown Bass has no Alembic script...not that he'd be able to read it anyway) Oh,,,,yea an..'Olym..... NEVER-MIND. Hey, mind if I take a look at it? Sure, knock yourself out...(please) OH YEA,....I see yer problem right now...Yer neck is warped...should be straight as an arrow.....just like my COURT!!!!
Guitarist at a gig...Can you make that sound like a Fender....
....Sure, I can even get it to sound like the whole car if you like!
Another guitarist playing a Telecaster......Hey man can you get more a Fender sound outta that?.....Sure, can you?
Oh yea, and one more thing. If you think you get comments when you take your Alembic out, try taking an Ashbory with you next time!!!
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Quote:
Guitarist at a gig...Can you make that sound like a Fender....
....Sure, I can even get it to sound like the whole car if you like!
I Love It!!! I gotta use that next time.
Mikey/
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I'm so glad i live in my insular little world and have never had any of this nonsense. I've been with the same group since '77 (save a 3 year married/out of town stint) and we carry our own sound man. The only problem I've had is zinging the acoustic guitarist with a low D if he gets too close to my rig (serves him right!). My goal is to NOT sound like Fender!
Larry
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I'm pretty sure that it's not just bass players that have this problem.
The other night I went to a blues jam with my Skylark, and upon seeing the Alembic the sound man snided hey man, we play BLUES here. I said, oh damn, this guitar doesn't know how to play BLUES, if I had know that BLUES was going to be played at a BLUES jam, I'd have brought one of my guitars that knows how to play BLUES....
After playing that night, all the sound guy could say was, Man! I didn't know Olympics could play blues like that!
I responded, Amazing what a guitar can learn when it's right next to a Fender Strat!
Go figure.......
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One of the bands I play in went out for an audition a couple of weeks ago. We scored a gig and were offered New Years Eve, also. We play a bunch of old Steely Dan and Traffic, basically a collection of R&B and jazz flavored rock tunes, Classy-rock, if you will. At the end of the evening, one of the hangers-on was heard to say, Your guitar player sure makes a case for the Telecaster not being just for country. I reckon! And what about those other non-trad Tele players, Roy Buchanan and Steve Morse!? It's funny how some instruments become so associated with certain idioms. I used to love Chris Brubeck playing jazz on a Rickenbacker; didn't he know it was a prog-rock bass?
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I've had experiences where what's already been described occurred, and also indifferent responses as well. My guess is some people just like what they're used to, and anything new will be viewed as suspect. The expense of an Alembic (or other high end instrument) precludes most players from acquiring one (unless they're independently wealthy, a very successful professional, or save for years), so most guys/gals buy what they can afford and like and use what they have.
In my case, I own two Alembics, two Gibsons, two Fenders, a Rickenbacker, a Musicman, a Pedulla, and an Ovation Acoustic Bass. Every time I've played my Alembics, the reaction has always been positive. I've also received compliments on my other basses too, so I guess reactions run the gamut. However, where I live now, most other musicians (mostly blues guitarists and drummers) don't want the bass player to stand out - they want him/her in the background, not out front or even in the middle. The electronics and tonal variations possible with an Alembic guarantee that an Alembic owner will be heard (not to mention seen!). It's sometimes frustrating at times that the only people who appreciate my Alembics are other bass players.
For my part, I'll continue to use my Alembics. I'm not a professional musician, and I don't need the money potential gigs might provide to survive. In other words, I don't have to accede to the wishes of other musicians if I choose not to - to each his own and all that. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty flexible when it comes to my sound, and will make changes for the good of the group if that's what's needed. But if the other guys in the band don't like the Alembic sound(s), and I want to use my Alembics, I always have the option of moving on. I don't tell them what to play. They won't tell me either. Besides, there's always another band/musician/group out there looking for a bass player. I've spent too much money on my Alembics to leave them in the case just because someone else's idea of a bass sound is a one-trick pony Fender Precision plugged into an SVT. Besides, as the saying goes, if you can afford a Cadillac, why not drive one?
Anyway, my two cents,
Alan
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Reid, funny thing about the sterotypes you mention. I was listening to a jazz band last night. The bass player had a Fodora which surprised me. Jacksonville is pretty much a Fender or MM town. Because I was paying attention he assumed I was a musician and started a conversation during his break. I mentioned that I played an Alembic which got me an invitation to sit in. The comment was if you play Alembic you must play jazz.
Sam
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I'm with Alan - bring it on!
Rog
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Just so you guys don't think that all guitarists want bass players in the background. I play in a 5 piece band (2 guitars, bass, drums, and a female singer). We play an eclectic mix of originals and covers from the last 40 years of R 'n R with a very apparent nod to the Dead (style, not necessarily songs, though we have been working on Bird Song - big fun). My bass player, with whom I have played in various situations for about 20 years, has always played a Gibson EB through a Traynor. I have long silently wished for him to get an Alembic so that he could be more present in the band sound. He recently found out that he is inheriting some $ and has decided to get a new bass. He's talking about a Rickenbacker, but I made him promise to let me take him up to Alembic and try some out before any purchase is made. If he does decide on the Rick, I'm going to try to at least talk him into an SF-2. I WANT TO HEAR THE BASS IN THE BAND. What would the Dead be without Phil? The Airplane without Jack? The Who without John? (Of course, they were never really the Who to me without Keith and John together). So don't disparage all of us guitar players. Some of us are more interested in the overall sound than who gets the groupies. (Besides, my wife won't let me have any anyway).
By the way: What do you call a guitar player who breaks up with his girlfriend? Homeless.
Bill, the guitar one.
(Message edited by lbpesq on October 17, 2004)
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Bill (and all),
Didn't mean to imply that I'm painting all guitarists with the same brush - I'm not. You'll note that I prefaced my comments with the phrase where I live now. I lived in the DC area until recently, and most players there that I encountered were more open to different kinds of bass sounds. As I said, where I'm living now, I might as well go back to the '60's when it comes to some of the musicians there. Hey, that's what they're into, and that's fine. However, that doesn't mean I have to abide by it or go along with it. It does mean that I won't get as many opportunities to play with a group, but that's my choice and that's OK. I just can't see playing a Fender Precision just so I can have the privilege of playing I-IV-V patterns all night long. It just isn't for me. I'd rather wait and/or seek out those whose styles and preferences are closer to my own. Avoids a lot of problems later on, I think.
Bill: Tell your bass player that if he's thinking of a Rick, he must get an SF-2. I own a '76 4001, and I can tell you that the SF-2 does wonders for it. For that matter, an SF-2 does wonders for just about everything. If he has any questions about a Rick, SF-2, or Alembic (I own two - a Spyder and a Europa), pass my email along to him and I'll provide some info to him if he so desires.
Regards,
Alan
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Alan, your comments about the Rick and SF-2 are of interest to me. I've still got my old 73 Rick, dings, gouges, bent tuning key and all, and I love that old bird. Problem is, I think it sounds like crap through modern amplification. It sounds brittle in the high end, there's no bottom to speak of and the mids are well, missing! It used to sound mind blowing through Ampeg tube amps, it was everything I could want from a Rick. Clearly what I'd like the SF-2 to do is: smooth the high end considerably, fatten the bottom end, and give it some mid range punch. Is that possible?
Thanks for your comments, especially if it means I get to use the old bird again!
Reid
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Reid,
Get an SF-2 and you won't be sorry. It will give your Rick the sound you're looking for. The bottom will be thick, the mids will be punchy, and the highs crisp without being harsh. I run my SF-2 via an Ampeg SVT-IV Pro with Ampeg BXT series cabinets (4X10 and 1X15), which is biamped. The SF-2 is in stereo mode, and it works well for me. You will find that you will get that great growl and edge that the Rick is known for, but little of the brittleness you speak of. When I plugged mine in for the first time, you would have thought that Chris Squire and Geddy Lee were in the room (not from my playing, but from the tone!). I cannot recommend one more strongly. Get an SF-2 and the old bird will fly (sing?) again.
Regards,
Alan
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About the prejudice thing:
You guys should consider yourselves lucky that you are being judged by people who at least know what a Fender bass is.
My wife for instance liked my Coco-Bolo Alembic better than my Jazz-Bass because it matched the colors of the living room better (seriously).
Sigh!
Cor.
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I play a 20th Anniversary, 66 PBass with the frets pulled out and a 62 Jazz (reissue). As hard as I've tried, I cannot make the Fenders sound like an Alembic, nor can I make the Alembic sound like the Fenders. I need 'em all!
Gale
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Given all the previous experience with other basses, I think we all narrow our tastes for the low end to specific needs over time, depending on the task. It pretty much boils down to personal preference.
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In refernce to dgcarbu, I am fortunate that my particularlar wood construction (81 Series I-ALL KOA) allows me some interesting voyages into the Fender realm. The construction, while not giving the Coco or Ebony Alembic realm, allows me to delve into a lot of other different bass tonality while still keeping the Alembic ethic. I am grateful to have my particular instrument, as, a touch of EQ here and there gives me a crazy range of possibility.
Regards...
Steve
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Hi Steve,
Do you have any more pics of your Series I?
Darrell
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Not yet, Darrell...lost many in a crash. The Showcase SeriesI Alembickoa's 81 is the only one right now. It does, though, attest to the beauty and magic of my bass. About 3 or 4 years ago there was a San Jose bass workshop that was sponsored by Alembic. Ron was there and said to me...I remember that bass. What a feeling!!!
After that, I did a gig in Santa Rosa and had to stop by Alembic to have some corrections made to an older Alembic I had aquired. Ron offerred to come in on Sunday but I said no and stayed until Monday. He fixed the old bass, and plugged my Series I into the house rig. He said again...what a bass.
ALEMBIC ROCKS!!!
Regards...
Steve
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Steve,
I saw your Series I Koa in that nice closeup you have posted. I agree...What a bass.
Hopefully I may be able to see it in person someday.
Darrell
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I was once fired from a band for NOT bringing my fender! 'the ears of some people!!!'.
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I wouldn't regret to be fired by such an ignorant band.
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Eeeek!
To be fired for not bringing your Fender. You are better off without them. Funny, if it was a Union gig, your lawyers would have had a party.
Even though the Alembic sound is tops to me, I just put money down on a soon to be finished Rickenbacker 4003. It has the special finish of 2004, Blue Boy, basically sonic blue.
When I was a kid, I remember going to the local Ford dealer with my parents to pick up their new 1967 Mustang. It was what we know as Sonic Blue, and my mom still drives it. All the memories I have in that car, from trips to school, teen age dates, being pulled over by a cop out of his jurisdiction and being questionably harassed, polishing it to perfection, driving it to gigs...you name it. I guess the Sonic Blue Ricky is some what a tribute to that relationship, and not to mention- it's not an Alembic.
Funny, I have to admit, it may wind up with Alembic Ricky replacement electronics :-), depending on how good it sounds stock.
So, lets call this a case of an Alembite not discriminating against a non Alembic.
If I were to be fired for playing the wrong bass, I would know there and then that it's time to move on to a real band.
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I ran across the following little story and found it fairly amusing. Perhaps the discrimination that some bass players encounter has more profound roots than we imagined.
Tom
* Let There Be Bass *
In the beginning there was a bass. It was a Fender, probably a Precision, but it could have been a Jazz - nobody knows. Anyway, it was very old ... definitely pre-C.B.S.
And God looked down upon it and saw that it was good. He saw that it was very good in fact, and couldn't be improved on at all (though men would later try.) And so He let it be and He created a man to play the bass.
And lo the man looked upon the bass, which was a beautiful 'sunburst', and he loved it. He played upon the open E string and the note rang through the earth and reverberated throughout the firmaments (thus reverb came to be.) And it was good. And God heard that it was good and He smiled at his handiwork.
Then in the course of time, the man came to slap upon the bass. And lo it was funky.
And God heard this funkiness and He said, Go man, go. And it was good.
And more time passed, and, having little else to do, the man came to practice upon the bass. And lo, the man came to have upon him a great set of chops. And he did play faster and faster until the notes rippled like a breeze through the heavens.
And God heard this sound which sounded something like the wind, which He had created earlier. It also sounded something like the movement of furniture, which He hadn't even created yet, and He was not so pleased. And He spoke to the man, saying Don't do that!
Now the man heard the voice of God, but he was so excited about his new ability that he slapped upon the bass a blizzard of funky notes. And the heavens shook with the sound, and the Angels ran about in confusion. (Some of the Angels started to dance, but that's another story.)
And God heard this - how could He miss it - and lo He became Bugged.? And He spoke to the man, and He said, Listen man, if I wanted Jimi Hendrix I would have created the guitar. Stick to the bass parts.
And the man heard the voice of God, and he knew not to mess with it. But now he had upon him a passion for playing fast and high. The man took the frets off of the bass which God had created. And the man did slide his fingers upon the fretless fingerboard and play melodies high upon the neck. And, in his excitement, the man did forget the commandment of the Lord, and he played a frenzy of high melodies and blindingly fast licks. And the heavens rocked with the assault and the earth shook, rattled and rolled.
Now God's wrath was great. And His voice was thunder as He spoke to the man.
And He said, O.K. for you, pal. You have not heeded My word. Lo, I shall create a soprano saxophone and it shall play higher than you can even think of.
And from out of the chaos I shall bring forth the drums. And they shall play so many notes thine head shall ache, and I shall make you to always stand next to the drummer.
You think you're loud? I shall create a stack of Marshall guitar amps to make thine ears bleed. And I shall send down upon the earth other instruments, and lo, they shall all be able to play higher and faster than the bass.
And for all the days of man, your curse shall be this; that all the other musicians shall look to you, the bass player, for the low notes. And if you play too high or fast all the other musicians shall say Wow but really they shall hate it. And they shall tell you you're ready for your solo career, and find other bass players for their bands. And for all your days if you want to play your fancy licks you shall have to sneak them in like a thief in the night.
And if you finally do get to play a solo, everyone shall leave the bandstand and go to the bar for a drink.
And it was so.
(Message edited by tom_z on February 12, 2005)
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Yeeeeeeeeeeehooooooooo...
WHAT A STORY ...
congrats Tom.
Paul the bad one
and than they tell that I tell stories ....huh ...now THIS is what I call a story!
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very funny, all though that's a pretty true story!
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And then the Devil created MIDI....
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Yes, funny indeed!
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Isn't that from Tony Levins web page? I believe I saw it there once. Just about says it all, doesn't it?
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Discrimination - it's not just for bassists, anymore!
Anybody here that wants some laughs, and has some time to spare, should click the following link. Get yourself a cup of coffee, put your appointments on hold, and be prepared to laugh yourself silly at the plethora of musician jokes. Nobody is spared! Now, on to the laughter...
http://www.ducksdeluxe.com/jokes.html (http://www.ducksdeluxe.com/jokes.html)
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Those are some hilarious jokes man!!!
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That story is genius!
(Oh and Alemboid; nothing wrong with Ricks, they're my other favourite basses;I alternate between the 2 depending what I'm doing. And the Blueboys look way cool. Not as cool as a Sonic Blue 67 Mustang though....*sigh*...)
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Hey Bigbadbill,
I also bought a dicontinued color Stingray 5. Kind of a pearlesent golden orange. I need to stop buying and start playing more!
Alemboid
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I had a funny experience with a band leader after an audition for a corporate gig.......
To start with, I was subbing for a good friend who couldnt make the gig (basically as a favor to him) and throughout the audition the band leader seemed to be staring strangely at my Exploiter. After running through charts of nearly the entire show. he said, I think you will work out fine, but you'll definitely need to bring a normal looking bass to the gig. I kindly told him where he could shove his gig and quietly walked out. Needless to say, I didnt get that gig but I have worked with that same band leader a few times since then WITH my Exploiter.
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Gale,
It just can not happen,sorry...
You are looking at a bolt on, verses a neck through and the construction is all different... Not to mention the electronics...
Be happy with what you got and seek another bass to fill your desires....
I grew up on a 66 jazz bass and later(1972) installed bartolini Hi A pickups.... (Bass was stolen.. If someone reads this post and knows the were abouts of my bass... PLEASE!!! kindly look into having it returned to me!!!... No questions asked!)...
(Message edited by 90k6259 on May 17, 2005)
(Message edited by 90k6259 on May 17, 2005)
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(Message edited by 90k6259 on May 17, 2005)
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I think the best part about playing bass is the lack of conservatism that bass players have. There are so many choices and they are all viable. It's not like guitar players who only play Fenders or Gibsons which are a dime a dozen. There is a place for Fenders, Musicmans, Alembics, Pedullas, F Basses, Laklands, Warwicks etc etc etc and they are all good options. As far as somebody telling someone to get a 'more normal' looking instrument for the gig, well that person is just plain ignorant and somebody should call the Darwin Police to take them away.
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I agree with you jetbass79. I've also had a few run ins with sound engineers who complain about having to record anything other than a Jazz or Precision bass to the mix. Some people in the biz are traditional thinkers to a seriously limiting fault.
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You mean others discriminate against Alembics? Pshaw! I've NEVER had anyone complain about my use of an Alembic.
They did ask me what the hell I was playing and why would I wanna use an Olympic anyway when Sam's Ass and Garbage Center are loaded with cheap, afordable Fender's that are far superior to my no name bass, LOL!
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Hey man, the trick to those large companies is finding that one guy who has a clue about what they are talking about when it comes to bass stuff. There's always one and you need to find him but if you're a boutique customer what the hell are you doing in a Sam Ash or Guitar Center? They don't have what you need anyway. And you can't talk to most of those people about really nice stuff anyway so why bother...
The reason those places don't have expensive bass stuff is simply because bass guitar sales is less than 1/5 of annual guitar sales so those companies are going to stock what they can sell quickly. I know this because I work for one of those big companies, at least for another 11 days. I'm bailing out of that burning airplane before my parachute goes up in flames...
Guitar Center used to sell Alembics and Tobias and other expensive brands but the company decided to go public and do two things that would make shareholders happy: expand exponentially (which will be their undoing) and therefore sell what would move quickly. Let's not forget that a GC employee a long time ago in a land far far away was involved with the development of the Spoiler bass.
Let's also not forget that because bass sales are less than 1/5 of all annual guitar sales that ignorance about bass gear runs rampant because there are 8 million guitar players to every bass player. If guitar players and singers only knew that bass players and drummers spend their lives making them look really good (or really bad), they might be more humble about things.
Most humans on this planet are ignorant to Alembic's existent because 1) most people are not inclined to spend the kind of money on something like that 2) they are not students of bass guitar. They do not have a concept of the history of the bass guitar and take it for granted because this type of behavior is warranted in a society which does not value history. Anyone considering a boutique instrument should look at Alembic first. That would be the logical, educated move. A third reason for this ignorance is because most Americans do not have that great of an imagination. They are perfectly content with something if their peers are content with it.
I had a customer at work tell me his 500 Watt Eden was what he thought was top of the line. Hello, have you heard of Accugroove? Or Aguilar? No of course not, and that's because you haven't the imagination to know what's really out there. I really hate when people think their stuff is top of the line and then you say yeah, you could pay $15K for a bass and $10K for a bass amp setup in a heartbeat. People often need to be put into perspective, only as a salesperson I can't always be so blunt.
Back to my point about being a student of the bass. My 1966 Precision and 1974 Precision are never going to leave my posession under any circumstances because they are after all, examples of the Industry Standard and they have their own vibe about them. I know where they came from. Same with my Japanese '75 reissue Jazz Bass that is my prize souvenir from Tokyo, Japan because you can't get them in the USA new anymore. It's got the perfect Jazz sound. I chose the Alembic as my 10th anniversary of playing gift to myself because I wanted something that was like me: totally unique. I also wanted the genuine article in a boutique instrument. Alembic invented the boutique bass guitar and established its market, just as Clarence Leo Fender invented the bass guitar itself and established the bass guitar market. The choice was obvious.
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A twist: Alembic Appreciation.
I play bass for one of the two celebration bands at church.
One of the guitarits for my band is a former bass player from the Bay Area, Oooo, that's a nice bass. Can I play it?
The other guitarist upon first sight from forty feet away, Hey, is that an Alembic? Pronounced correctly, to boot.
As it happens, the other band is anchored by a '76 Series 1. The soundman owns a custom 5 string Alembic.
What are the chances? I think that's too cool.
(I'm afraid we're reaching critical mass....)
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Okay, Mike, where's this Alembic church??
I'm over at First Baptist Carrollton with my Series II.....
Along the lines of your guitarist recognition: When I first started visiting First Carrollton, the orchestra director and his wife took us out to dinner. From the front door of our house, you could see my 20th Anniversary in the living room. I promise, the first words out of his mouth were, That's not an Alembic is it? He's a percussionist for crying out loud! That pretty well sealed our joining the orchestra, of course.
C-Ya..............wayne
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Hey, Wayne
Fellowship Bible Church North, that's in Plano. Musically it's like a KLTY hit-parade.
I like your story, makes you feel at home when it happens.
Mike
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I just read this (http://fodera.com/artists/wooten/book/bassexc.htm target=_blank) on the Fodera site. It describes how Victor Wooten ended up switching from an Alembic to Fodera.
I'm sure many of you may already know this but some may not.
As an aside, I ordered by first Alembic about two weeks ago. The hard part is trying not to think about it for the next few months. :-)
Regards,
Troy
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Hi Troy, welcome to the group; and congrats on your order! Neat story; I should probably order that book.
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Troy, welcome to the club. That's an interesting story. Here's a sixteen year old who's not really in a position to argue with the old veteran.
Obviously, he likes his Foderas but it sounds like he liked the Alembic too.
Rich
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It's interesting that Victor Wooten was more impressed with the feel of the Fodera than the sound of the instrument. It's almost like the sound didn't actually matter in that case. Vinnie must have been on to something since he's still in business...
Troy, congrats on your first order...I couldn't get it out of my head...I kept saying Europa... to myself out loud (referring to the electronics in my bass) for months...
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That's really interesting about Vic Wooten switching (or being forced to switch!) from Alembics to Foderas. In a funny way, I'm kinda glad he switched: has anybody here seen his live show lately? His party piece involves throwing his bass across the stage (yes, one of his Foderas!) and then dragging it back across the stage into his hands by the cable . . . yikes! It's bad enough with a Fodera, but I really couldn't bear to see that done to an Alembic.
K.
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Hi why does he do that?.It reminds me of when I was at a clinic in London about 15 years ago, John Entwistle was there.There was a question put to him from the audience about the the worst thing that had happened at a gig.His answer was when his roadie handed him an Alembic bass for the last song of the set instead of an old precision or something.He spent all of the last song trying to attract the roadies attention but couldn't,come the end of the song with the audience going mad he had no choice but to close his eyes and smash it up.Can you imagine that !.I know he had loads of money and could easily afford another but he was an avid collector wasn't he he cared for his instruments.
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One of the members of our group posted about how he had met Victor after a show. Victor told him that the Fodera was a much smaller bass than the Series I, and therefore was more comfortable for him to play.
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I could see weight being an issue with a Series I...especially if you are playing for 3 or 4 hours...you'd need a truss rod adjustment for your back after that...
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I just wanted to add: I have a 1969 Fender Telecaster (American of course) bass that I have owned since 1981 and it truly has its own unique voice. I also have a 1984 American Fender Precison and a 2005 American Fender Jazz. Alembics are King, but there are certainly some Fenders in the Royalty line (at least in my book).
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The electonics alone out of a Series instrument weigh a good pound and a half or two lb. Most of the Alembic electronics are pretty substantial, too. Add to that any kind of heavy wood (particularly if the body is solid) and you definitely have a heavier instrument than many mahogany J basses.
Just goes to illustrate the old adage: Don't go pointin' that Alembic at somebody, 'less yer plannin' to use it.
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I guess it's all about what you want from your instrument. I own a number of basses and I love them all, for different reasons. My Alembic MK is up there with them all, but the other night I was depping in a straight ahead rock band and my 70's Stingray was just ideal for the gig; one growling sound that fitted perfectly and looked the part for that band. The Alembic gets all the studio outing's and some gigs, but the others are fun and have their niche.
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I find the same discrimination with motorcycles too. I ride a 2002 Triumph Bonneville, and I usually get the attitude from the Harley riders about Well it's not a Harley... it's too small..... After a good dusting of their ass, they usually change their tune.
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Hi Christov, please don't be too hard on those Harley riders,many are on their first bike and have never been on a Triumph. I own an Electra Glide and a Sportster and have my sights set on an 05 black and white,T100 Bonneville. I get the same poo while on my 883,Chick bike,when you gonna get a real Harley? (YAWN!) I think most of it is good natured, as anyone who has been around motorcycles for a while knows the performance history of Triumph. Those informed individuals know it would be foolish to mess with a Bonneville unless they have had some serious motor work. Those that don't, well after the beating, they can take solice in the fact they probably have more chrome on their engine than you. BTW, I think one of the coolest bikes ever made was the 1968 T120 Bonneville. Like women and basses, love em all.
Stay Low, Gary
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Hey Guys,
This is a BASS discrimination thread, NOT a BIKE discrimination thread! LOL! J/K. I used to get that a lot on my old non-American (sic) bike, especially from the Harley guys. Now that I've been on a Harley for the last almost 7 years, I still get razzed by some of the Harley guys! You know: Yuppie Scum, Yuppie Biker, RUB, RUBBIE Biker, American Express Biker, yada, yada.
It's all good. As a biker for the past 20yrs, a Lifetime AMA member for almost as long, a Harley devotee, and now a NJS licensed RiderCoach (motorcyle instructor), I don't care WHAT you ride, I just care THAT you ride! LOL!
Cheers,
Kevin
BTW, take my word for it, anybody that buys a Harley to race around is on the WRONG bike, LOL!
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A couple funny storys:
I was going to play with a band as a favor to a friend. So I show up and get out my bass and the first thing the guitarist says is
guitarist- Oh man thats an odd looking Fender
me- umm its an alembic not a fender
guitarist- oh...oh wow are those emgs in there?
me- ummm no...
guitarist- oh man you should put emgs in that thing it would sound great
me- I think I really prefer these.
It was kind of awkward after that.
The second time I was at guitar center with a friend just messing around playing a cheap cort bass for kicks and the head salesmen comes up to me and attempts to sell it to me, it went something like this:
Salesman- pretty nice bass huh?
me- It's ok I guess
salesman- (describing all the details about the bass and I was very obviously not interested at all) So you think thats the one?
me- No I already have the one.
salesman I bet we can find you a better one what kind of bass do you play
me- An alembic.
salesman- Oh..Is that like a knockoff of another company or something?
me- The cheapest bass they sell is 4 grand and is handmade out of the finest woods available.
Salesman- (he eyed me very oddly at this point, im guessing thinking i was full of shit) o...k...
As a sidenote next time I came into guitar center I brought my bass in to try out different cords and showed it to the salesman. He was mildly impressed:-)
sean
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Hi Sean, welcome aboard. I had the opposite type of experience down here in the south part of the state. Run through Flint quite often on the way to Rogers City.
Ever been to Huber Breese Music in Clinton Township? It's a big store in our area, does not sell Alembic. Sells everything else under the sun, and is always jammed. Regularly does battle with GC.
I picked up a beautiful Series II last year, thanks Bill. It was set up for flat-wounds and I was changing over to round. I brought her up to Huber's for a set up as I was reluctant to touch her for her initial set up.
Their set up guy has a table near the front door and he has been there and done that. When he opened the case on my Alembic he started acting like a kid on Christmas morning. He was yelling, and I mean YELLING! at everyone in the store to come look at this bass. Even drummers, sorry guys, came running. I found it kind of embarrassing as I'm a hang in the back of the room type guy. I was amazed that this store full of weary musicians stood on their heads over an Alembic. About 50% actually knew what an Alembic is, a great instrument, the others just thought she was great looking.
Did I mention, thanks Bill!
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You know I can't count the times people have looked at my Alembic and asked me if it was some other brand that they had seen with pretty wood. My wife still calls it an Olympic. Then there was the time some guy knew it was an Alembic and felt compelled to razz me if I was gonna play Stanley Clark stuff. After a particularly tight R&B set doing nothing fancy but just playing bass, he changed his tune. The Alembic is a special instrument. You can play anything on it. And it always sounds special. That said, a Precision bass is also a special instrument. Especially one that is set up right and sounds like a Precision. I think the bottom line is ... most people dont have a clue what brand or type of instrument we play. They just know what they hear. What we as bass players know about which instruments inspire us to be better players filters to our audience as a good performance. Which is something they can appreciate. You can get things out of an Alembic you can't out of a Precision. And that is true in the opposite direction as well. I am just thankful that people like the folks at Alembic and for that matter any other folks who make quality instruments care enough about their products to make my life that much more enriched.
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I play bass for one of the two celebration bands at church.
[...]
(I'm afraid we're reaching critical mass....)
Pun intended?
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GGunn,
Took a minute to catch the pun. Ah, no, that's completely unintentional. Although, if we were a Catholic church...
Mike
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To all my biker/musician constituents above, it?s not the ride or the axe; it's what?s inside that makes it worth while.
I ride a Harley. I don't ride to show off, race or pickup chicks. I wave at any and all bikes I pass.
Like wise with my Alembic, I don't play to show off, play speed riff's or pickup chicks. I tap my foot to any tune that grooves.
Life ain't a contest, it's an adventure. Enjoy it, don't destroy it.
PS. I also have a 1966 Bonneville, and a couple of old Fenders, (72 Telecaster and 76 Jazz basses). Still use both but not as often as the others.
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I've been going to several jams at local clubs for the last several weeks as I'm looking to get heard and get back into a gig. I always take the BigRedBass with its newly installed FatBoy horsepower, pass out some business cards, and generally have a great time. Already starting to get some calls, so it's been good all the way around.
Invariably I'm following some poor schnook with a Fender or Fender clone. Followed a cat with a NY Sadowsky the other night, NICE axe IF you're into that sort of thing (I'm sure as hell not!). Sometimes I'm following a good player, sometimes not.
The great thing is that the reverse of all my previous experiences ALWAYS happens (Olympic? You don't have a Fender? We all know the drill . . .)! When there's no time to ask all those idiotic questions and you move straight to HEARING an ALEMBIC, believe me, it's the musical equivalent (for those other guys) of bringing a knife to a gun fight!! They take one look at all of that red-tinted quilt and hear the FatBoys speak with that solid authority, it just OVER, right now. Whether it's a situation with good PA and everyone riding their volumes and listening, or just that usual muck of a roar, this thing cuts through ALL of it like a laser.
Through any and all of the amps that have been there.
I've never had SO many positive comments about ANY axe I ever owned. My motto is 'Own the Stage'. When His Large Redness steps up, game over. I may change his name from the BigRedBass to Dirty Harry!
J o e y
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I've been reading Blair Jackson's excellent new book: Grateful Dead Gear. (I'll post a review when I'm done.) Anyway, I came across a passage that I had to post in this thread. It is a quote from Keith Olson, the British producer of Fleetwood Mac and Rumours. In 1977 Olson produced the Dead's Terrapin Station album. Many deadheads, (including moi), found the album to be substantially overproduced and schmaltzy with the addition by Olson, (and unbeknownst to the Dead), of a full orchestra and choir! Anyway, in discussing the recording of this album, Olson states, regarding Phil Lesh:
He had this really weird bass that I think was one of the first Alembics .... It basically sounded like somebody took a washboard with a broom handle and put one piece of rope on it. But he was really into it: 'It's low impedance.' I said, 'it sounds like crap - got a Fender?' He didn't like that. But I dealt with it.
Blair Jackson then comments: In the end, many Deadheads agree that the Terrapin Station bass sound is actually better than on many other Dead studio albums.
Phil didn't do that with a Fender!
Bill, tgo
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Olson sounds like a schmuck to me!
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Harleys, Fenders... American Classics. CRAP
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Given my own preference for Alembics: Whatever works...
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Hey Guys,
I just experienced a bit of 'Reverse Discrimination.'
I just recently finished doing a video shoot with one of the bands I work with @ EKO Productions (some of you East Coast guys might be familiar with the place).
Now, I've done quite a few videos there with various bands, but this last time I noticed that I didn't get quite as many close-ups as usual. In past videos, I seemed to be featured often, and my bass was super-imposed over the vocalist in many instances. While I did get a few this last time, it didn't seem to be half as many as usual. So jokingly, I asked one of the cameramen: What happened this time? He said: Well, while the bass you're using now (my Tobias) is quite nice, in the past when you was using that Alembic, I just couldn't take my lens off of it.
When I thought about it, I realized the first question he asked he when I pulled out my Tobias was: Where's the Alembic?
Man, I gotta get my dollars together and get my next Alembic quick.
Mikey/
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Here in Philadelphia many bassists use Fenders. any high end bass tha comes out is suspect. many players in this town go for a very very basic tone.
Most of the negativity I have encountered comes from bringing an extended range instrument to a gig. I think this stems mainly from bassists not fulfilling the the bass function job and simply overplaying on their extended range instruments instead of playing what the job calls for.
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Hey godoze
Nice to hear from another Alembic player from Philadelphia. Thats where I'm at. Do you play out around here? I'll come hear how that bass sounds. Saw your post about your rig and I must join the Pauls in saying wheres the pictures?
Willie
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Willie,
Yes, My trio plays around quite a bit but most of my high profile gigs come from the belly dancer i play solo with.
I think I have heard of your band.
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You get to play solo with a belly dancer COOOOOOl
Where & when that would be interesting, hearing an Alembic live & getting to see a belly dancer at the same time. I dont remember metioning the name of my band but I've played with several, ever hear of Strange Kreek Whats the name of your trio
Willie
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I looked at your profile and saw the band name...
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Godoze - I agree 100% on overplaying - nobody wants to hear slapping, tapping and harmonics on Proud Mary.
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dnburgess
Did you ever hear Victor Wooten play Norwegian Wood or Amazing Grace? He does some things there that are definitely different than the original studio versions. Obviously you can overplay a song and turn it into #@%^, but sometimes its nice to hear someone take a song and play it a whole new way as long as they do it Justice.
So godoze, when are you playing around Philly again
Willie
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I played in Doylestown Saturday night... A duo with an accordion player. Hemingway sounded very good with the accordion. I cannot wait to install the filter and Q.
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Something else that comes to mind from personal experience is that most engineers have an easy time mixing the Fender tone in recordings while many have difficulty trying to incorporate a high fidelity bass. They are just not sure how to deal with a basses tone that is not meat and potatoes.
I have experienced this with my Smith basses on several occasions.
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The last recording I did, the engineer was pleased to see an Alembic (he is old school San Francisco 70's stock).He ran me from a Countryman DI to a Summit tube pre and got a huge sound right out of the box. Much more satisfying than all that Guitar/Vocal interference you hear on recordings today! Yes, it IS all about me.
Larry
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Just by experience...
Many engineers like the Fender bass because they have been EQ'ing them for so long they kind of know what to do to get a sound, whereas with Alembics, there is such a robust tonal signal that they are easy to work with.
As far as Ken Smith basses, I think they are beautiful and have a unique tone- which is rare when you think of how many other basses sound so much alike (not to include boutique basses, which tend to have unique audio signals, add to this the basic and unique tonal qualities of the P bass, J bass, Ricky basses and Stingrays). Funny thing is I have heard others comment about having to work to get a sound in the mix on Ken Smith basses. Why? I don't know. I found a freaky K. Smith that I am totally in love with. It's a BSR7EG- yes 7 string! I don't need 7 strings, but the bass is so beautiful, that I can't get it out of my mind!
Don't worry, my intention, should I find the dollars, is to use that bass a platform for solo performance, perhaps accompanied by hand percussion. Just imagine the reaction you'd get for pulling out a 7 string!!!! Talk about discrimination!
Tonally, they seem to have a strong midrange presence. maybe that is what troubles engineers, who knows.
Again, who's to say what is right when they see what we are pulling out of our cases?
Alemboid
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I guess the right ones are either the people that hired us or ouselves...
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I have been playing bass for over 25 + years, my first bass was a copy of a Fender Jazz, and others were Ibanez Musician, Destroyer II, Washburn B-40 EQ, Kramer Ferrington II, Yamaha RBX 5, RBX 765a, Peavey TL-6, they all have been retired/sold as my tastes changed over the years, now I use Alembic, Conklin, Fodera, Pedulla, Tobias (pre Gibson), Hamer, Zeta, Guild Ashbory, Michael Kelly, still have a fretted and fretless Ibanez Musician basses (till my new Alembic comes!! ) then they will be retired and a Ibanez Studio 8 string , as well a a Fender P I got used someone put in EMG's and a Kahler whammybar. No one has ever complained about my bass sound, the only comment was from an studio engineer who thought the Washburn sounded like a Rick ! and when people see my Conklin 7 string, they ask what make it is ans LOOK at the size of the neck..How do you play that ? All my basses were a very personal choice, purchased for what I could afford, the way they look, sound and play, not for brand name, or who uses one, I like unique looking instruments ( I still have one of those Roland GR-77B bass synths ;o)........ bottom line is now days with how far bass building and electronics have come, 5 different people can pick up the same bass, play through the same amp and all sound completely different, it doesn't matter how many strings are on your bass or what brand it is, I bring up to 5 instruments to a gig and switch for different songs, fretted,fretless, but I play for what the song requires.....original or cover, Dream Theater to Jimi Hendrix, stage or studio.
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Well, I got the opposite experience. Once I brought my Alembic on rehersal together with a '78 Jazz. Played a bit on Orion and then switched to Fender. After a couple of songs the guitarist said:
This Fender looks nice, but could you switch back to that Alembic, please?
Jure
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Cool! I'd hire that guitarist in a snap! :~)
He was really listening. No doubt, as we bassists play what the song calls for, we blend in well, and glue the whole band together. Note for note, a bass with consistant tone and presence(Alembic) is really appreciated by those who care. Unfortunately for some of us, what we are seen with seems to be more important than how we sound.
I bet you those image conscious (sorry) jerks that grump when they see something other than a Fender like bass would go nuts if they were told that they should play something other than what they bring to the gig. What would their reaction be if after an audition, they found out they didn't get the gig because they had the wrong guitar, drum sticks, sax, etc.?
Some of us are lucky in that you can play what you play, and that is cool enough!
I have a dream, that some day a man will be judged, not by the kind of bass he plays, but by the way he plays. -Borrowed and altered from a famous civil rights speaker.
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About the Fender vs. non-Fender oriented crowd:
I was working with a big-band a while ago, always playing my 70's Telecaster Bass. When I first brought my Alembic to a rehearsal, a trumpet player asked New bass? What kind is it? I replied Alembic.
Olympic? Never heard of it. Cool, though.
Another guy notices my bass, walks over and says the same thing: New axe? What kind?
Alembic.
Olympic? Never seen one. Nice.
Band leader shows up. New instrument? What is it?
Alembic!
Olympic? Looks cool.
Chick singer arrives. New bass? Nice! What kind is it?
...Olympic.
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I just read the posts on this thread. Very interesting. The comments a while back about Can you make it sound like a Fender? reminded me of an article in Bass Player a few years ago. It was written by David Hungate, most recently (I guess) a top Nashville session player. The article was about session-ese. It said what the artist/producer/guitarist/whoever said to the bassist (and a translation into English) and the bassist's response (and translation). One was
Singer to bassist: Can you play something more like so-n-so would play?
Translation: We really wanted so-n-so for this session.
Bassist to singer: Can you sing more like George Jones?
Translation: Kiss my ass.
Rich
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I had a gig two months ago in a less than ideal acoustic environment. The soundman and me were tweaking the bass sound while I was playing my beloved MK. The soundman had quite some experience but he didn't know much of bass brands. After some minutes of tweaking the sound was ok but not breathtaking. I told the soundman ok, but let me also try my MM Sterling. He knewed Musicman and said oh yeah, I love Musicman for their clear sound. Let's go !. It was only 30secs of playing when he told me Forget the Sterling, it's nowhere near your other I-dont-know-what bass.
Last year another soundman I was gigging with asked me when I was doing soundcheck with my MK Nice bass, but can you make it sounding like a PB ?. I said Sure I could, but I don't want to go that low in quality. Translates to: see last post ;-)
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After my last post I really started thinking about the different bass makers. I am not exactly a Fender fan. I have never owned one. But I don't think anyone can deny Fender's place in music history. Before the Fender we had to play uprights or tubas. Can you imagine trying to match volume with a big band with an upright. I own one and it is hard to play loud for long. It is exhausting. Granted I don't practice it much but I can imagine how those gigging bassists felt when the Fender came along.
The way I've heard the story, Fender was the only one around at that time, thus the name Fender bass.
Then move ahead to Motown, etc. Many of those songs were recorded with Fenders. It is reasonable that it has many devotees. Carol Kaye made quite a career during that time. An earlier post stated that engineers like the Fender because they know the instrument and can get the sound they want quickly. Time is money in studios.
Just because it was the only one around in the really early days doesn't mean that we have to stick with it now. We have better. Why not take advantage of advancements that have come along? Why use a slide rule rather than a calculator just because by God, that's all we had in the old days and it's still good enough for me. Better technology and people like Ron W. have given us the opportunity to play better instruments.
However, that doesn't mean that Fenders are necessarily crap. I guess a lot of people like the sound. That's okay with me. I don't think they are the best but if someone likes it, okay.
Again, I've never owned one. I have owned maybe a dozen basses. Most of them had a pretty good sound. I didn't try to use any one of them for all types of music.
I am very pleased with my Epic. It has, by far, the best sound of any bass I've had. As far as I know Alembic makes the best. But, please, let's not think that Alembic is the only instrument maker out there and ours are the only opinions that should count.
It really does not bother me that not very many people have heard of Alembic or even Olympic for that matter. After all, the serial numbers are only up to 14,000 or 15,000. If they don't think they like the sound because they don't recognize the logo, it's their loss. There are plenty of professional musicians, engineers, and producers who know what Alembic stands for. Alembic has nothing to prove.
Respectfully,
Rich
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Rich-
I played a maple-boarded '71 Jazz for a couple years. It had a fabulous tone that was hard for most boutique basses to match, but it didn't have the versatility. If all someone is looking for is a flatwound all-bottom sound, then there are a lot of basses that can provide that. One thing is for sure, every Alembic I have played has been much more responsive to playing nuances than most of the basses of yesteryear. It puts a lot of tonal control in the hands of the player, both via technique and via the settings of the filters and other controls. That means a good player can sound better and a mediocre or poor player can sound that much worse.
I always wonder when I see one of these posts why it should be up to the engineer to decide what the bass should sound like? I don't do pro recording gigs and rarely play with a soundman, but I have done sound for some sizable acts. I have always tried to give them what they want, not force them to sound the way I want. Can some of you session-regulars splain this one for me?
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in my main band i play my Alembic, Chapman Stick, and my passive/fretless Fender Jazz with flats.
very different sounds between the two but it really gives me a full tonal pallate to choose from.
i used to play a fretted jazz as well but when i brought the Alembic to practice the first time EVERYONE in the band (including the SINGER!!!) was amazed and said that the Alembic is the bass for the band.
with the Stick, the fretless, and the Alembic i have many unique sounds and none of them can be replaced.
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Lazy narrow minded soundmen are the ones that whine when something other than a Fender is used in sessions. Overall, the reaction is good when I use my Sadowsky in the studio, but I can't remember ever plugging in my Alembics and not getting a Wow! What kind of bass is that? or Cool, we got a sound (moments after plugging in).
The whole Vintage is cool market is still going wild. So, to be in, playing a 70's or earlier Fender gives you cool points in some occasions, regardless of your ability, again, in some cases.
A friend of mine plays a Sadowsky on a late night show here in New York. What's kind of funny is he has several Sadowskys, but only one really delivers the sound that the audio tech really likes, and for that matter, is noticeably better sounding than his others. Nothing against Sadowsky, but Alembics seem to be a bit more consistant, even though the woods can alter the tone. Like Susan says- a lot of bassists record with Alembics and play the stage with the in bass or their endorsement piece.
There is more to life than Alembics, but in life, it's hard to beat an Alembic!
Alemboid
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Alemboid
It sounds like you might be friends with Will Lee, is that who you are referring to?
Willie
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Wow after posting that I realized our names sound alike, Will Lee or Willie, probably more so than our basses sound
Willie
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Alemboid,
Assuming you're talking about Will, have you seen or maybe even played THE BEATLE BASS?
It's kind of a surprise that only one of his Sadowskys sounds that good. I'm sure he's one of their best (at least most visible) customers. They're just right across the bridge from Manhattan, so they're not inconvenient for him.
Rich
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Yes, I am referring to Will Lee. Willie, you could pass for him, at least in the pronounciation! lol!
I first met Will when Roger Sadowsky, asked me to tech/liason for him. At the time we were at 1600 Broadway, a 5 minute walk from the Ed Sullivan Theater. I've seen the Beatle bass, and it finds its way up on stage occasionally.
Will has a few Sadowskys that float around: his sunburst standard 4 that sounds terrific (by the way, it has 1978 Fender Jazz pickups in it), a black standard 4 (that is used as a spare), a 24 fret 5 that is always on stage, his new P Bass with jazz pickups in Warwick Thumb Bass positioning (personally, not as nice sounding as his sunburst 4) a lake placid blue vintage 4, a sunburst vintage 4, a sunburst vintage 5, and several Yamahas, Musicmans, Hofner, Peavey, Carvin, Ricky etc.
Don't get me wrong, the other basses don't sound bad, it's just that his main bass is his main bass because it really sounds so good. The same way Marcus Miller's 77 Jazz sounds so good. Did every 1977 Fender Jazz come out sounding like Marcus' bass?
Will's main around town gigging bass is a custom Yamaha 4 with Jazz pickups. Funny, Ibanez built a Verdine White signature model, but Verdine always played his Yamaha TRB-4p. These guys could play anything, and they choose what they choose.
Marcus Miller is Sadowsky's first spotlighted bassist, as Roger did the mods on the 77 Jazz. Will I'd say is the next, as his exposure on the Letterman Show showcases the Sadowsky.
Will doesn't make it over to the new Brooklyn factory much at all, and since I left Sadowsky, a friend named Mike is taking great care of Will.
I see Will and his wife here and there, and occasionaly go to check out local acts. He is a true professional and a monster player. He's been at it in New York since 1972, and ripening well at 53.
He vows to always play the bass for the gig. So he'll show up with whatever is appropriate- Fender like, or not.
Alemboid
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Thanks, Alemboid. It is always interesting to hear about what these guys are actually playing and how the basses are set up.
I read a while back that Will has played the Beatle bass on The Late Show. Did he leave it as a lefty and learn to play left. I suppose he could have it set up as a righty in such a way that it could be changed back with no permanent changes. How cool to play the Beatle bass on the stage where Paul first played it in the US.
Rich
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Great thread!
Like some of the earlier posters (Godoze and Willie), I live near Philadelphia, and play there frequently. There is absolutely a bias against multi-string basses, particularly six strings...six will get you fired is what my bass buddies and I often say.
There's no doubt that engineers and many band leaders prefer Fenders, and I am convinced it's because they are a known commodity. Every engineer with a couple of months on the job knows how to get a tone from a P-bass or a J-bass, whereas with other basses, including Alembics, they might have to work a bit. That said, whenever I have had a project leader bitch about my Alembic and I have been able to convince him or her to let me give it a try, they have always been happy with my tone.