Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: dan_in_london on April 25, 2006, 02:30:45 AM
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What should I be listening out for to know when to change the batteries?
D
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As the voltage goes down, there will be some distortion that you cannot get rid of.
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And it will happen at a gig, and you'll have no idea why your rig suddenly sounds so strange. You'll turn around and stare at your speakers for a minute or so, and maybe unplug and replug your cable a few times, until it dawns on you that it could be that the battery in your bass might be going bad. For the non-Series basses, it's probably good to change the battery once a year. And always carry a spare fresh battery in your gig bag.
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I suppose that depends how much you play, Dave. I would replace it at least once a year, but more often if I were playing heavily. It's only a few screws to get to the battery, so I would check it periodically, maybe every 2-3 months, until I had a handle on the drain pattern.
Another thought is that the best performance of your electronics will come from a fully charged battery. If you are going into the studio or about to have a critical performance, then put a new battery in.
Remember that the battery drains anytime the cable is plugged in. Most of us know that, but it's always worth mentioning when the topic arises.
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I remember seeing a post around here by someone saying that they always put a brand new battery in their bass before a gig and that they just used the previous battery in whatever household knick knack/toy/remote control/clock needed a 9v. That sounded like a pretty good idea to me. I imagine that it depends on how often you gig though, once a month may be often enough instead of every gig.
Yep, it's always good to mention that everyone should remember to never leave their bass plugged in because it just drains the battery.
When I had my Series bass I always used the DS-5 box so I never ran it off batteries. I did keep a brand new pair of 9v batteries in my case at all times and a little phillips head screwdriver just in case. I never needed it but I was glad that it was there.
-Jim
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Hello!
I just want to know if when i use Series 1 without a Power Suply my sound lost quality or power?
Thank?s
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Ricardo; the main concern about batteries in an S1 is that they don't last very long.
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I don't know if they changed this on the newer instruments, but on the older Series 1's when you play on batteries and plug in through a standard 1/4 inch plug cable, only the neck pickup works.
Bill, tgo
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*point of inquiry*
I believe Series instruments have stereo (TRS) jacks. I remember reading someone played directly into headphones and heard one pickup per ear. IIRC series electronics use more power than the other models, and so tend to drain batteries rather quickly. But not so fast that you couldn't do a show just on battery power.
I'm sure there would be no difference in level or sound quality between external vs battery power, otherwise the Alembic wizards wouldn't still build the battery option in.
My $.02
Mike
(Message edited by dadabass2001 on April 27, 2006)
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Bill and Mike are right; if you use the 1/4 jack, you'll need a stereo cable.
(Message edited by davehouck on April 27, 2006)
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Now here's a thought. If you had a series instrument, ( which I don't have....yet) would it be possible to use use a re-chargeable battery inside the bass and have it charged up via the Series 1 Power supply?
If that were possible then, you 'd always have a fully charged backup power supply inside the bass all times.
Just me thinking out of the box here.... :-)
Jazzyvee
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Jazzy, Dude you're what I call, an Idea Man. If they offer them that way now, they should.
Jazzyvee-Head of Research and Development has a nice ring to it.
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Actually the 1/4 jack on Series instruments either may or may not be wired for stereo. I think it depends on when it was made.
-Jim
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Ricardo's bass is a '77 which, if I remember correctly, should have a stereo jack.
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Well OlieOliver, I would happily accept one Series I or II instrument a year in lieu of salary.....
Thanks lol
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I'm suprised one of the other Series owners didn't respond sooner, but here's the scoop on the Series 1/4 jack.
I don't think there's any question that it's the most complicated output jack on any bass anywhere. Basses that have active electronics and mono out often use the ring contact as a battery switch. When you plug a mono 1/4 plug in there you short together the ring and sleeve (ground) contacts. So, on one of these basses, you wire the battery + to the ring and when the contacts short together you have a power circuit and the battery is turned on.
On the original Series basses tip, ring, and sleeve are used as they normally are for something like stereo headphones. The bass pickup appears on tip, bridge pickup on ring, and ground on sleeve. To switch on power, there's an independent switch on one of the main contacts - when the plug is inserted, the contact is bent slightly and it throws another switch to turn on the power. I believe there's also another switch which is switching between the battery power and the external power as well. I haven't done this in a long time, but I believe if you have both the 5-pin and the 1/4 connections made it will be running off the batteries instead of the external power (e.g., any time something is plugged in on the 1/4, power is coming from the batteries). The wiring on the 1/4 jack looks like a forest.
This is why older Alembics only play the neck pickup when you are plugged in with a regular guitar cord. Perhaps Ron was trying to do a favor for future Series buyers - when you try it out in the store, you can tell the salesman Hey, you want $2000 for a bass with only one working pickup? and end up getting it cheap. :-)
This was OK up through the 80's. I suspect around that time, wireless units were becoming very popular and they're enough of a pain that you don't want to have to modify the transmitter plug. I built a little adapter, duplicating the innards of the power supply box and it worked fine, if only for short periods of time. I don't know that a lot of people really needed true independent pickup outputs anyway (two SVTs are at least twice as stupid as one), so by the end of the eighties, I think Alembic started wiring the 1/4 jack to have both outputs on the tip and all was happy with guitar cords and transmitters. You still get independent outputs on the 5-pin connector anyway. I'm kind of surprised that they didn't add a few more internal switches in the jack so that it would put mono out on a mono cord and switch to independent outputs with a stereo cable.
Back when all this stuff was originally designed, the only rechargeable batteries were NiCads. These are the ones that suffer from memory so you really need to charge them fully, then discharge them fully and repeat or you rapidly lose battery life. Nowadays there are NiMH and lithium secondary batteries that don't have memory problems but require a power monitoring chip in the battery pack to charge properly. I guess it could be done, but would be expensive.
Battery life is *very* short on the Series, as the onboard electronics were designed for sound rather than to save power. Your typical EMG-equipped instrument can easily get more than 1000 hours from a single alkaline 9V. With my Series, I think you're doing really well if you get 40 hrs of playing time on two batteries.
The voltage coming out of the DS5 box is higher than 18V (I can't remember the value off the top of my head, but 30V sounds familiar). When you're on external power, I think you'll probably get better headroom and dynamic range, but may not notice the difference. Strangely enough, I find that the output level is usually higher with the batteries than the external power.
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Maybe we need a quote of the week. I nominate Mr. Fung for the following:
...two SVTs are at least twice as stupid as one...
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Hello, I?m a new owner of Alembic?s and i don?t have much knowledge on its electronics.
Ok, we dont loose quality and power of the sound with batteries, i?m understood this.
Someone said that in S1 77? the stereo sound only leaves the bridge pick up and that is truth, when plugged in the 5 pin.
What i have to do to get a stereo sound by the booth pick-up?s when i play with 5Pin plugged?
Thank?s!
And sorry if i don?t understand some tip write up.
Now my question is: Could I in my S1 77? get a stereo sound
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Ricardo;
Stereo, in this instance, means separate signals for the neck pickup and the bridge pickup.
If you plug a stereo cable into the 1/4 jack, you will get a stereo signal out.
If the other end of your stereo cable has two 1/4 mono connectors, and if you plug one of those into one channel of your amp and the other one into the second channel of your amp, then the one channel will have the neck pickup signal and the other channel will have the bridge pickup signal.
If you use the 5-pin connector and cable, the cable will send the stereo signal to the DS-5. The DS-5 has two separate outputs; one is labled bass and the other is labled treble. You can send the neck pickup signal from the bass output to one channel of your amp and the bridge pickup signal from the treble output to the other channel of your amp.
Thus, you can get a stereo signal from either the 1/4 jack or the 5-pin connector.
There is no need to use both the 1/4 and the 5-pin connectors at the same time to get a stereo signal out to your amp. You only need to use one.
So, run the 5-pin cable from your bass to the DS-5. Then connect a 1/4 cable from the bass output of the DS-5 to one channel of your amp, and run a 1/4 cable from the treble output of the DS-5 to the other channel of your amp.
Stereo!!
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Thank?s again Dave!!
It?s so easy!!
Now i can get stereo sound from my S1.
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Aprec?e!
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Batteries . . . has any one matched this experience:
Thought I'd be real hardcore and get the LITHIUM 9v's (longer life) instead of the regular copper tops, what have you. For the $10(!) apiece I spent, it was cheaper to buy regular alklaline 9v's as the Lithiums didn't last any longer.
DF, what was the genesis of the separate routing of each pickup? Of course it's the ultimate setup, amping each pickup and its different tone apiece, but I wonder how many people ever really did this on a permanent basis? It was obviously a very deliberate consideration as the F2B was built to support it.
I always have this theory that somewhere in the desert there's a pile of those 'RickOSound' splitters that used to come with 4000-series basses. . . .
J o e y
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Joey; I've recently started sending my neck pickup to channel one of my F-2B and the bridge pickup to channel two for the purpose of being able to get more individual EQ adjustment for the pickups. I'm still experimenting and haven't reached any conclusions yet.
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playbootsy - There's actually a bunch of different ways that you can wire up and hear both pickups.
1) Use the 5-pin cable and get neck, bridge or both (mono) out from the DS-5 external power supply box.
2) Use a stereo Y-cable in the 1/4 jack which will give you neck pickup on one plug and bridge pickup on the other.
3) Build an adapter to get mono out. I did this so I could use my bass with wireless. It's a 10 cable with a stereo plug on one end and a mono jack on the other. Inside the adapter, you need two small resistors so you can sum the individual outputs. I don't remember the values, but this is what's happening inside the DS-5 mono output. I just leave this little adapter in my case.
4) Do the mono conversion inside your bass. It's just 2 resistors (less than $1.00 of parts) on the output jack.
I actually find that summing to mono is more useful for me. I've never run dual amps (remember, two SVTs are...). If you separately amplify the two pickups, then when you flip the pickup selector or adjust the pickup volumes you will shift the amp balance as well. With mono output, things generally work the way you expect, based on every other bass in the world, and if you want stereo output, you can still get it a the 5-pin jack.
David Fung
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Joey -
I'd be curious too about why Alembic brought everything out individually. I suspect that the first time around, they probably just had the 5-pin output for external power, then added the 1/4 jack later for people who forgot their DS-5. Ron had a recording studio before he started Alembic and I suspect he was probably following the smart engineer's rule which was that it's easier to put two signals together when you want to than to take them apart when you mixed them before!
There are some effects that sound better when you don't process all the signal, so I guess you could use this to sort of mix live. I don't really use effects much so I can't really speak to that.
I guess this stuff was all just getting us mentally prepared for some future Series III bass where Ron unveils the ultimate piezo pickup hiding inside the sustain block. I think he must be teasing us (very slowly over the course of 30 years). As many of you may know, Ron is one of the co-inventors of the PZM microphone sold for many years by Crown. It's a piezo technology utilized unlike any other microphone in the world so it has less coloration and less limitation from high volume levels too. Without 30+ years of mental prepartion an onboard bass version would probably fry our collective cortex. I think I'm almost ready though!
David Fung
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When I had my Series bass I always ran it mono live (no dual SVTs for me); but when I was in the recording studio I ALWAYS ran stereo into two direct boxes and then into two mixing channels. This allowed me to really tweak the bass exactly how I wanted it in the mix since I had each pickup recorded to a different track. Top that off with then being able to have your bass pickups individually panned in the final mix and you've just reached audio engineering nirvana.
-Jim
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I never knew the Crown PZMs were piezos. All the ones I have seen are small condenser elements bounced off a boundary plate (hence, the name Pressure Zone Microphone). I am a little surprised as piezo elements usually make terrible mics.
I have experimented with running my bass in stereo. I used to do it all the time, with each pickup getting its own F2B channel, but then my rig changed. Ultimately, I really like stereo. Of course, you could also do it like Bootsy, with 5 pickups, each with it's own output, chain of effects and amplification!
Edwin
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Whoops! You're right Edwin, PZM mics are condensers. I hadn't thought about this for many years, but I did remember that Crown referred to the microphones as elements and the mistake stemmed from there. Piezos need to be physically distorted to generate a signal which is relatively easy to do with physical compression and hard for a microphone that's picking signals up in the air, even with a diaphram attached.
Sorry about that!
David Fung
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at what voltage will the effects of weak battery be noticeable?
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The battery in my Exploiter gave up the ghost during sound check Saturday night. Good timing for once! I swapped it out before starting the show and found I had marked the date on the old battery- June 15, 2005. I use this bass probably 8-10 times a month and got almost a year out of the battery...
JP
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OK...a little late, but here goes...
I have a Rogue, an Excel, and a Series II. For the Rogue and Excel, I switch the battery everytime I lemon oil the fretboard (every 6 months) I run the series with the DS5-R, but tune with the 1/4-inch. Now, my 1/4-inch was made with a mono-stereo switch, so I can play it through headphones, or with a standard guitar cord. I didn't specifically request it, it just came that way. FWIW, I have yet to change my Series' battery after 2 months of tuning...
Ken (TEO)
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Wade, on your Epic, you'll start noticing the tell-tale distortion at about 7V.
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Not sure about the electronic setup of PZM mics - Edwin is spot on about the physics - but as far as piezo-like mics go there is such a thing as the electret microphone. You find these in mucho cheapo recording equipment like the infamous ghetto blaster, but the concept has been taken to dizzying hights by the likes of Bruel & Kjaer (or whatever their name is these days).
From Wikipedia:
Though electret mics were once considered low-cost and low quality, the best ones can now rival capacitor mics in every respect apart from low noise and can even have the long-term stability and ultra-flat response needed for a measuring microphone. Unlike other condenser microphones they require no polarising voltage, but normally contain an integrated preamplifier which does require power (often incorrectly called polarizing power or bias). This preamp is frequently phantom powered in sound reinforcement and studio applications. While few electret microphones rival the best DC-polarized units in terms of noise level, this is not due to any inherent limitation of the electret. Rather, mass production techniques needed to produce electrets cheaply don't lend themselves to the precision needed to produce the highest quality microphones. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone#Electret_capacitor_microphones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microphone#Electret_capacitor_microphones))
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When my Series 1 got rip offed back in 79, the batteries were dead in my bass and the power supply was in the back of my rack, and back in 79 batteries were not to common in bass, so no matter what the thiefs did they couldn't get my bass to work , so they had to take to a music store to get it fixed before the could sell it, the store owner knew it was my bass and told the scumbags he could fix it and have it ready the next day, they left and he called me, I floored my Porsche and drove 125 MPH to the music store, when I got there I ID my bass and locked the case, when the guy came back the next day to pick it up he was met by the Police and hand cuffed.
the moral to this story is;
DEAD BATTERIES GOT MY BASS BACK
David T (TLO}
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I understand your concern,but you endangered the lives of your fellow citizens,and I am sure the store owner was on your side at that point. Speed Kills!
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Wait a minute...
Wade,
Were you ever in a band called Mt. Pilot?
Charles
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Yes I was.
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Cool!
I used to play with the Earthtones back in '92-'93, and later with Acoustic Workshop. I used to see y'all at Rivalry's on Cherry St. Man, you guys ROCKED! I think we played some shows together there, too. I still see Frank every now and then. Glad to see you're still playing!
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Yes I remember you... Didn't we try to form a Blues Brothers tribute band briefly? I added you to my friends on myspace
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Sorry for the hijack!
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The Great American Blues Machine!
I'll do the same. See you there!
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Wade, you are so right, but I was young and didn't know any better, I do now, and I don't drive like that anymore, but at the time, the only person I wanted to endanger was the guy with my bass.but he got hisand I got my bass back
David T
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I was just messing with you.. I would have done the same thing. I found out my Les Paul was stolen and I was 9 hours away. Talk about felling helpless. Its serial was 172596 for the record. Thats been 18 years ago.
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And at that gig when it happens you will stare at the rig, Yell at your bass tech, and then Pull a Pete Townshend and smash all of Kieth Moons Drums!
It just happened to me last night, My new Alembic Mark King crystal clear beautiful sound, then bammo. Distortion, Fuzztone. Replaced the Battery, all better!
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I use Epic 5 string basses and a 1976 Fender Precision 4 string. I have seen posts on various websites which suggest changing batteries anywhere from once a month to once per year. I have played everything from small clubs to large outdoor venues. I have played anywhere from 1-3 gigs per month to more than 20 per month. My general rule is whenever I change strings it's a good time to change batteries. Some people like a sound which is not punchy but has a lot of low end and rumble. If you fit into this category I suggest using nickel strings and changing batteries every six months. If you are like me and like a punchy sound with a bit of low rumble such as Marcus Miller has, use Stainless Steel Strings and change your battery every 3 months. You can get 9 volt Duracell batteries at Sam's Club or BJ's Wholesale for less than $10 for a 6 pack. Great price especially if you use a wireless such as I do or effects. That's how I buy them.
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David, you should be ashamed you only hit 125mph to save an Alembic Series Bass.
Especially in a Porsche!
That story did my heart good. Hats off to the shop owner.
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Gary
It was a 914 Porsche, that's all she would do!!
the one I drive now is faster, but not with me in it
David T