Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: shim on December 29, 2006, 03:16:14 AM
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I ordered my dream bass to Alembic. My bass will have the signature electronics, but I cannot decide the type of Pick-up. Valentino wrote he could get the better sound by exchanging AXYs to FatBoy, but, I cannot hear the sound sample of them.
Any other opinion?? or do you have any sound-samples to get a idea about pick-up?
please help me. :D
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I had AXY's in the BigRedBass for several years before venturing out and retrofitting it with FatBoys.
The AXYs are perfectly clear and sound as if they have a relatively flat frequency response. They are very honest in their presentation. They remind me of studio monitors' very equal presentation of material with little coloration.
The FatBoys seem more muscular, a meatier presentation. They impart more punch, all else being equal. Other musicians not prone to saying anything about my tone all suddenly began inquiring what had I done to that bass, it sounds great. I had to agree.
I liked the AXYs, but I'm just crazy about the FatBoys. I would NOT go back to AXYs, and they were very good. I just prefer the FatBoys.
J o e y
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I had AXY's in the BigRedBass for several years before venturing out and retrofitting it with FatBoys.
The AXYs are perfectly clear and sound as if they have a relatively flat frequency response. They are very honest in their presentation. They remind me of studio monitors' very equal presentation of material with little coloration.
The FatBoys seem more muscular, a meatier presentation. They impart more punch, all else being equal. Other musicians not prone to saying anything about my tone all suddenly began inquiring what had I done to that bass, it sounds great. I had to agree.
I liked the AXYs, but I'm just crazy about the FatBoys. I would NOT go back to AXYs, and they were very good. I just prefer the FatBoys.
J o e y
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Joey, do you prefer Fatboys for both pickups, or for only the bridge pickup -as I seem to recall hearing another club member saying they were too much or something to that effect -on/for the neck pickup.
I ask because they've started working on my custom, and I could ask them to put Fatboys in one or both pickups.
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FatBoys were too much for my neck pickup on my medium scale bass with the neck pickup moved closer to the neck. I assume it was from the strings being a bit looser on the shorter scale. With a longer scale, and I believe Shim has his neck pickup moved a bit back towards the bridge, I would think that Valentino's suggestion is the way to go, as are most suggestions made by the fine folks at Alembic.
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I've also commented that I thought a FatBoy was too much for the neck, but Joey prefers using them in both positions. From what I recall reading here, I think there's a pretty even split of opinion, though maybe a slight preference (among those who have tried) for using them in both positions.
The one thing I'm pretty sure of is that if you have a choice, it would be crazy not to put a FatBoy at the bridge.
If I were choosing a pickup for a position halfway between the standard neck and bridge positions, I would certainly try a FatBoy first, and expect to stick with it.
But it's all a matter of taste, as always, and I think you probably have to hear them yourself to make a decision. My suggestion would be to go with one of each, then swap them around. Whatever you choose, worst case is you end up buying one pickup, and it probably won't be a second AXY.
-Bob
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Thax. so Joey suggest the both position Fatboy, and Bob suggest the only neck pick-up FatBoy... right?
Bob~ but, I cannot hear them myself to make a decision, because in Korea most alembics have only AXYs, not FatBoy. I really want to hear them....
I feel the AXYs too clean.
Thanx Joey, the_8_string_king, Bob... :D
Anyother opinion???
-Shim
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I have two short scale basses. One has AXYs and Europa electronics, the other has FatBoys and Signature electronics. Both have the neck pickup pushed closer to the neck. It's like the difference between single coils and humbuckers in terms of tone. The wood recipes are different, so it's not apples to apples, but the FatBoys just sound fat.
I think it's a matter of finding the right pickup height and gain settings. I suspect that if you just swapped a higher-output FatBoy in for an AXY and made no other tweaks, it would be too much. However, a careful rebalance should make it work just fine.
Logically, I would almost want to try the reverse. A FatBoy in the neck position for warm Motown tones and an AXY at the bridge for crisp treble accents. Of course, the treble on an Alembic is so present to begin with that the FatBoy still works great there. Again, it would be critical to match the gains and heights. That would be a challenge with this config since you'd be putting the lower output pickup at the lower output position.
I would say that they are two different tools with different tones. I would go for the FatBoys for a vintage tone and the AXYs for a more modern sound or for chording that needs the tighter definition. Just my opinion...
-bob
Oh, and if you go with one of each to consider swapping, make sure they both get made with equal length lead wires so they reach from either position.
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Wow, I got a thanks, and I didn't even contribute anything!
Hey Shim, congratulations on commissioning your custom!
Joey, Tom, Bob, thanks for your input.
I have to say I'm pretty interested at this point -based on what you guys have said (along with previous raves/testimonials)- on getting the FatBoy pickups for my 6-String custom that they've started on.
I'm planning on getting the Balance K Omega body (the only thing that might affect that is concern over whether the reach required to reach the 1st fret would be greater than that of a Europa of the same [34 inch] scale).
I can't remember if Mica said the Balance K comes with AXYs or MXYs, but I'm pretty sure she said the FatBoys fit right in (without the need for further routing).
(If so) I'm interested in getting a FatBoy for the bridge pickup, and the standard (whichever it is) pickup for the neck.
Now my neck pickup should be in the standard position.
But hey, does anyone happen to know the retail $ for a second FatBoy & that of the standard pickup -in case, after getting the bass, I decide that I either want to swap the standard neck pickup for another FatBoy, or to swap the FatBoy for the standard pickup?
And can anyone confirm that FatBoys are readily switchable with the standard pickups on the Balance K?
I'm 99% sure Mica said they were -but I'd like to be 100% sure!
Thanks, gang!
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FatBoys and AXYs are exactly the same size. If you order your bass with AXYs, then you can drop it right in. What you get depends on your base electronics package. I think you get MXY with Set-neck and Essence/Europa/Rogue basses and AXY with Signature basses. Of course, you can order whatever shape you want and I doubt there's much, if any, upcharge to switch pickup shapes.
No idea on the cost...
Were I in your shoes, I would order one AXY and one FatBoy in whichever positions you prefer. Then you can swap them back and forth to check your preferences. This means you will have to only buy one additional pickup in the worst case. On the other hand, if you order two AXYs and prefer FatBoys in both spots, you'll need to order two more...
By the way, reach to the first fret of a Balance K should be the same or shorter as compared to a Europa.
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Yeah, B, that's a great idea: Get one of each and it's NOTHING to swap them back to front. It's gonna take longer to unstring/re-string than to unplug them and switch them. The crazy thing is you only remove the two screws you can see, swap them, put the two screws back, and they're still in EXACTLY the same height!
The BigRedBass is a long scale, standard Omega shape, so my neck pickup is in the traditional spot, next to the truss-rod cutout at the end of the fingerboard. I basically set my heights with the neck pickup about halfway between the top of the body and the bottom of the strings, and the neck pickup halves that height again closer to the strings. My trims are set with a slight rearward bias to add that bridge pickup zing on top of the front pickup beef. I have the 4-way selector, no pan. I originally tried the AXY in front with the FatBoy aft, but the FatBoys are so delicious to me I prefer them in both places.
I would rather have a little too much of something and thin it out rather than having to really boost something that is barely there. I'm finally to the point I want as little tone modification as possible, and I preferred a little thinning to a lot of boosting. My friend Bob likes 1 and 1 on his fretless, which I could see for him. Bob has VERY good ears, not surprising as the rest of him is first-class, too.
J o e y
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Oh, and BTW: Be sure if you order replacement AXYs/FatBoys that you let Mica or Val know WHAT fingerboard width you have.
The BigRedBass is a classic taper five-string. So I told Val to send me a FatBoy 5/6. Guess what? Classic taper fives actually take a FatBoy four ! ! OOOOOPPPPSSS! Once I got the right one, they ARE utterly interchangeable, same size.
J o e y
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Thanx Everyone. :D
Because I cannot hear the differences between AXYs and FatBoy, so your suggestions are so helpful.
So.... your suggestion is... AXYs for Neck pick-up, and FatBoy for Bridge Pick-up??
PS : Because I'm poor at English, so Frankly speaking, I might not be able to understand whole of your words;;;; I worry about it.
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And, I want to get the sound like Jimmy Johnson. To get this sound, which one is good for me??
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By the way, thanks to all you guys, Shim for raising this topic and bringing it to the forefront of my attention, and Joey, Tom and the Bobs for their comments.
Bassed on your feedback, I'm going to tell Mica I'd like to get the Fatboy for the Bridge pickup, and see if this costs extra. If it doesn't, I'll go for it, and ask that the wires are long enough to allow swapping.
It sounds like I can't go wrong with it. But -this is probably a really stupid question- ... I really want this bass to have a FLAMING Coco Bolo sound... the Fatboy couldn't... I dunno, make it sound less... Coco-Boloier... could it? That's probably a dumb question, but if any of you FatBoy lovers can answer it, I'd appreciate it!
Thanks again you guys! You done educated me good! And I think it just might have a significant effect on my finished sound... which, if so, would be no small thing!
Time for my behind to go to sleep! Night, y'all!
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Hate to ask a stupid question, but can anyone tell me what the center pickup / plate / whatever it is on the Series II electronics is? I refer to the thing between the two normal pickups.
Thanks!
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Jim,
The center pickup/plate on the Series is a Dummy Pickup. The Series pickups are single-coil, and Alembic uses the Center Plate for humcancelling purposes without changing the tone of the Single coils.
GO BUCKS!!!! The 'Ho
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Eight, I've played Will Gunn's Cocobolo Fantasy COTM (c-t-c coco, ebony laminates) with its FatBoy 5/6's . . . sure didn't sound like mahogany or myrtle to me ! !
BTW, Will has this fabulous axe, unplayed and with a new warranty at a hell of a savings (www.willgunnguitars.com (http://www.willgunnguitars.com)). Will is of course the only stocking, exclusively ALEMBIC dealer. Check it out, it's gonna make somebody one hell of a buy.
J o e y
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Joey, great ad!
If I am reading it correctly, you're saying that you've played the unplayed bass that Will has for sale? Impressive, red one.
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B, for the life of me, I can't understand how Will got that one and left it alone . . . it's not mint, it's brand new. But Will goes back with ALEMBIC to the 70s and has been through the stage of a Series 2, stereo'd out to two amps, one for each pickup. He's having a very simple four-string made for himself to go back to his R + B roots. I can't think of a better guy to order a new one from. Knows them encyclopedically, and the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet.
I can't believe he moved back to Iowa, I was gonna have a good friend and a stock of ALEMBICs four miles from my home . . . so if that's an ad, OK. But it IS going to make somebody a hell of an axe at a great savings.
J o e y
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No doubt, I just got a kick out of playing the unplayed instrument. Sounded like something out of Spinal Tap. I did the five string thing for most of ten years and I am back to fours for the past two or three. Part back to the roots, part wish to focus on improving playing skill rather than using the crutch of extra notes readily available under the fingers.
But, since I think neither one of us has any more to say on the topic of AXY vs FatBoy at the moment, maybe we should just take the rest of the day off.
Happy 2007!!!!
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Have to agree with you on the idea of sticking with 4 strings!!
It DOES improve playing styles
Just my $0.02 for the new year
Take care
G
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I came to five-strings in the mid-80's after they became available from regular manufacturers.
I never was comfortable on a four string as I'd begin a certain run in first position and invariably have to finish it up the neck way too often. With the five I can play a two-octave run across the fingerboard in the space of a few frets. I just see the fingerboard in a lot more linear fashion on a five. I would not go back to a four, don't even own one, wouldn't know what to do with one.
I think it's down to the player: I know guys that kill on a four, and I know guys that kill on a six or seven. By the same token we all know people that can't find their butt with both hands and a flashlight regardless of WHAT they're playing. I wish I could say sticking with a (your choice here) improves your playing, but I just can't. I look at learning on my chosen instrument to be no harder because of an extra string than I would to say it's easier if I had one less string. I double on keys, maybe that's it: I never think a 61-keys synth is somehow limited as it's not an 88-key piano. They're just different and good in their own ways.
I know lots of 'former' five or six string guys that are back on a Jazz and loving it. And if that's where their musical journey takes them, I couldn't be happier. But for me and my own trip, I got better, faster, on a five, as it just suited me better.
It's very easy to be hammered into playing 'what you're supposed to play' by friends and peers. Witness the endless 'where's the Fender?' stories. I get the occasional, 'Hey, you gotta take one string off that thing!' when I show up: Nobody EVER says it AFTER I play. Because, really, aside from the occasional low root C or D, if you don't see the axe and I'm fitting in perfectly in the charts, HOW would you know?
J o e y
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I was going to answer, but I remembered this was the AXY vs. FatBoy thread, not the four vs. five thread...
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Mark said, the Fatboy couldn't... I dunno, make it sound less... Coco-Boloier... could it?.
I think it's a good question; I don't know the answer but I think it's a good question.
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That's a question for someone who has done a pickup swap. My cocobolo-topped SC was ordered with FatBoys and never had an AXY in it. As such, I can't say what a change would do to the tone. It does sound very full as is, though, so I don't particularly want to change it around. I can't imagine the native woody character of the tone changing with a different pickup, though. I suspect the AXY might just be a little thinner and crisper.
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maybe i can add 2 cents
wolf originally had 2 axy's
i swapped out for as fat boy at the bridge
what i immediately noticed was more mid range warmth on the fat boy
while it is a matter of choice, i yield to my in house guru val who thinks fat boys at the neck are too much. i have also found that slightly adjusting the pu height on the axy neck can greatly affect the sound with minor adjustments
my height on both wolf and scooter are
neck axy- slightly up on low end and a bit higher on the g string
my fat boy is high on the low string and down a bit on the g
i like a warm g string but not overly bright
which is one of the reasons i switched over to d'darrio chromes along with their higher tension than the TI flats- chrome g strings are really full sounding
naturally where you are playing the string comes into play- i find the sweet full low sounds are right about where my neck ends, most balanced sound over the neck pu and best light sound bout a .750 in front on the fat boy
best part is now playing with scooters controls
hope this helped
flax
(Message edited by flaxattack on January 03, 2007)
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anyone have an AXY they'd sell me?
(Message edited by bumhucker on January 05, 2007)
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bumhucker e mail sent I'm up for a trade
an AXY for a FatBoY
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Reviving a zombie thread...
One of my Alembics is a Mark King Signature Deluxe 5. When I first got it (used), I swapped out the 2 stock AXYs for 2 Fat Boys. Lately, I've been thinking that, as compared to my Series basses, the sound was a bit too thick in the low mids, and not as punchy or clear as I'm used to hearing from my Alembics. So, I swapped out the Fat Boy in the neck for the stock AXY, adjusted the trim pots to precisely balance the out out of each pickup - and there it was! All of the clarity and depth of tone I am used to hearing! So, put me down as another Alembician who thinks that an AXY in the neck position and and Fat Boy in the bridge is the way to go. For my tastes, the Fat Boy in the neck is just too much - but I love it for the bridge pickup. YMMV, of course
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Reviving a zombie thread...
One of my Alembics is a Mark King Signature Deluxe 5. When I first got it (used), I swapped out the 2 stock AXYs for 2 Fat Boys. Lately, I've been thinking that, as compared to my Series basses, the sound was a bit too thick in the low mids, and not as punchy or clear as I'm used to hearing from my Alembics. So, I swapped out the Fat Boy in the neck for the stock AXY, adjusted the trim pots to precisely balance the out out of each pickup - and there it was! All of the clarity and depth of tone I am used to hearing! So, put me down as another Alembician who thinks that an AXY in the neck position and and Fat Boy in the bridge is the way to go. For my tastes, the Fat Boy in the neck is just too much - but I love it for the bridge pickup. YMMV, of course
This was highly recommended on my Custom fretless. The only direct comparison available is my older Distillate, and it's remarkable to me how much alike they are, but you're absolutely right, that FatBoy definitely has more attitude... it's a perfect mate for the bridge position, but would probably be overkill for the neck.
If memory serves, Joey had two FatBoys on his Big Red Spoiler, and liked it.
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I have two Signature Basses, a Custom with a FatBoy in the Bridge position (highly recommended by Mica) and an SC Standard that has two AXYs. If my Custom is any gauge, one FatBoy will do the trick. It provides a "fuller" sound without being overbearing. Although similar in construction, the Standard with the two AXYs sounds a little thin to me.
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I indeed had two Fatboys in the BRB, replacing both AXY's, on the premise I did not want to 'mix and match', made more sense for me to have the same thing both places. For my ears, I was right. As always, your results may vary . . . . . . There was nothing wrong with the AXY's, but I preferred the FatBoys. I liken the difference that the AXY's were like exceptional studio monitors, very honest in their presentation, but they sounded like that in that it seemed a 'flat' response. FatBoys sounded like really good high-end stereo speakers, a few dips and humps put in by someone that knew where to put them, and I just liked that better. Not a night+day difference, subtle really, but enough of a tweak on Alembic's sound that I just liked them better.
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Reviving an old thread. because at last after having a set of new pickups from Mica I have got round to installing both into my SC Signature deluxe.
In the bridge I have a fatboy and the neck i have an axy with the pickup set closer to the pickup cavity inside the casing.
I've done a bit of playing this evening and not really sure what I think.
For certain the neck pickup on it's own is a little heavier on the bottom end and warmer in tone which is generally how I prefer my sound to be. It is also seems to be less crisp with the filter fully open and Q on or off, but still a sound i like.
The Fatboy in the bridge...... hmm my thoughts are that it still seems less hifi sounding and does not have the sweetness in the sound compared to the AXY that it replaces.
I haven't yet adjusted pickup height as i wanted to try to do a like for like comparison first.
Once i have played if for a while I may try putting the fatboy in the neck and put the original axy in the bridge and try that for a while.
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I find AXY/MXY pickups to be thinner and crisper sounding than Fatboys, but both have that nice classic Alembic sound.
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I've had this discussion a few times with Joey, who first turned me onto the FatBoys. And therefore my opinion is somewhat biased by what transpired after that initial discussion. AXY pickups are somewhat like very good studio monitors... think; high-end Genelecs or something. Fatboys are more akin to a really big stage rig. Still clean, but more of the good parts. Too much for some folks. They are just accepting sooo much more information. I love 'em... they aren't for everybody, but give me two anyday, neck and bridge, I'll do the rest.
But wait, there's more...
Personally, I could hear differences in AXY pickups from different eras. That '81 Distillate I had... it had the glossy finished plain ones, and they were a totally different voice than the ones that came in the '85 fretless, which had the classic shell with ALEMBIC branding pressed in. (not gold embossed yet). Recognizing that there were some other factors in play; placement, wood, setup, even stuff that I couldn't think of, I got a gleam in my eye and swapped them out one time. What I heard from each pickup mostly followed it to the other bass. It was a better education for what pickup placement and wood did that the pickups, themselves. All things being equal, they were darn close, but those older ones still sounder warmer, even when in the newer bass, with more modern placement closer to the bridge.
Later on, a tangentially related set of circumstances left me with a homeless set of FatBoys. (I had them in an '80 Series I, if you're curious... and they were uh-MAZING) After that bass got shipped home for new Series pickups, I put the surrogate FatBoys in the '85 fretless, and WOW, was it a different thing. I kept them in there until I sold that bass last Fall, ultimately reinstalling its originals. (those Fatboy pickups now live in RV's Alembicized Starfire)
My Custom fretless 5-string has a FatBoy at the bridge, and a standard AXY in the neck slot. The vintage routing shoved those things all the way to each extreme, so the neck pickup is plenty warm, but I can still hear the difference between them. That bridge pickup is audibly glowing red-pink. You can solo it out, push the lows, roll off the filter to about 30%, and... there is nothing on this Earth that sounds like it. Boost the Q at your own risk. Weirdly, it sounds more like my PJ activator-equipped Persuader 5-string than either of the AXY-equipped Distillates. Maybe from all that maple and purpleheart.
However they do it Alembic really lands it with people like us. It's a little bit nutty taking things quite this far for generating a dadgum magnetic field... but... if you get it, then you just do, and you can't un-get it. The pickups are just the beginning... then the signal gets routed through some other pretty cool stuff nobody else can do like they do. Yeah, they do sound a bit different, and depending on how dialed-in you are, you'll get a preference for one or the other, or a combination.
I kinda' learned to celebrate/enjoy the difference.
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I guess I am in the minority, but i get my sound from my Amps & Speakers, fingers and pick, combo'ed with AXY's.. They are a full range pickup. If you are playing on a big stage the AXY will deliver. That pickup is the most flexible next to a series bass (dragging a multi pin cable) not realistic in this day and age.
If your going through some serious sound reinforcement (L- Acoustics full-range PA's), your stage volume/Monitor (or what you have on stage) those AXY pickups shine.
If you are playing in your bedroom or lower volume gigs then probably go fatboy. Good pickups both. Milage may vary.
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Don't get me wrong i am completely happy with the sound of AXY/MXY's but since I have other options I want to try them for size before deciding if I want to offload them.
My strategy when I was playing a lot of guitar was, if I wanted a different sound from a guitar, i would buy a new one that already had the sound I wanted rather than buy pickups etc that were unpredictable as once you install them you can't return them just because you don't like the sound unless they are faulty. (well in the UK anyway).
However that strategy is a bit expensive to do with alembics :-).
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My preference for the AXY/Fatboy combination goes back to my decades as a Rickenbacker freak. I realized that the sound I heard as “me,” was a clean neck/bass pickup and a not-so-clean, maybe even distorted bridge/treble pickup. I had two Excels, an Elan and a Mark King Deluxe with the AXY/Fatboy setup. Pure sonic bliss. :)
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My preference for the AXY/Fatboy combination goes back to my decades as a Rickenbacker freak. I realized that the sound I heard as “me,” was a clean neck/bass pickup and a not-so-clean, maybe even distorted bridge/treble pickup. I had two Excels, an Elan and a Mark King Deluxe with the AXY/Fatboy setup. Pure sonic bliss. :)
Which pickup is where (neck/bridge)?
You guys are making me want to try a Fatboy in the bridge position, but I'm afraid I might lose the "Stanley tone" that I like to use sometimes. Also not sure I'd like the way it would look since my bass has the old smooth top pickups with no logo.
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In Rickenbacker-land I was used to thinking of the pickups as neck and bridge. In Alembic-land it was bass and treble. I installed Fatboys by the bridge. Sorry for any confusion. :)
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I think it also depends on how you EQ it and what speaker cab you run it through.
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In Rickenbacker-land I was used to thinking of the pickups as neck and bridge. In Alembic-land it was bass and treble. I installed Fatboys by the bridge. Sorry for any confusion. :)
Funny you should say that because Ric control knobs are labeled bass volume/ bass tone, and treble volume/ treble tone. ;D Thanks for clarifying!
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Well what a difference a rig makes. I tried the bass out this afternoon with the Fatboy bridge and offfset on the neck in my main gigging rig with barefaced speakers and alembic preamps and it sounds great, yes a little less sweet than the standard axy's. Love the bottom end of the neck pickup and the fatboy seems to be more responsive to the filter movements than the standard axy, not as sweet but not harsh like it sounded in my practice amp. With both pickups set to the same internal trim pot setting and volume on the bass, the fatboy is the more dominant. I do love that nasally sound from it when the filter is towards closed and within in the last 1/4 of the range and the q is on. it has a series bass kind of characteristic. i will keep them on the bass now for a while to get used to the sound. 👍🏾😁🎵🎶🎸🤓🔊