Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Owning an Alembic => Serial Number / History Requests => Topic started by: Notachemist on October 27, 2024, 08:42:36 AM
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Hello
I am glad to be a new member of the Alembic community. I would like some more information on this instrument:
Serial Number: 07MK13747
What I can figure out is that it's a 07' MK deluxe - everything also seems to allign with that, judging from the information available on http://www.alembic.com/prod/signature.html - the previous owner lost the "spec card", but it seems to be a "sandwich" of "Coco Bolo, Maple, Mahogany, Maple, Coco Bolo"
Thank you in advance
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Hey Subaru2 and welcome to the club.
Serial number lookup can take some time so be patient. But it sounds like you've figured out exactly what you've got already. We love pics in here so please post some if you can. Like this: write a note and go to "Preview", click on "Attachments and other options", click on "Choose File" and find your file. Note the 1000KB size limit which means you may need to reduce the size of your photo. Also, you won't see the attachment in Preview, it will only appear after you Post the note.
Enjoy that bass!
Jimmy J
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Hi Jimmy
Quite exhilarating: The person who introduced me to Alembic, is the first person to respond to my first post!
It's a great honor to have my idol respond to the first thread I made on this website! I hope you are doing well.
I don't have the bass yet (living in Europe, Alembics are quite hard to come by, so it's on its way)
I will try to upload some pictures when it has arrived (due to copyright, I cannot upload pictures from the dealer I bought it from)
Hopefully one day you cross the pond, and I can watch you playing with James Taylor in Denmark.
Kindest regards
Oscar
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Hey Oscar,
Thanks for the kind words. The club of Alembic players is relatively small and I've clearly been a fan of these instruments for a long long time. So it kinda makes sense that you'd find me in here with these like-minded folks.
Will you be changing your screen name for each post? HA! Just teasing.
I found a Reverb listing for your bass, hope you don't mind me sharing it. Some lovely pics and also most of the details you would find in the missing build sheet:
https://reverb.com/item/84786273-alembic-mark-king-deluxe-5-2007-with-red-side-leds (https://reverb.com/item/84786273-alembic-mark-king-deluxe-5-2007-with-red-side-leds)
That looks to be in excellent condition and we hope you love it. Let us know when you get your hands on it.
Cheers,
Jimmy J
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That Omega cut!!!!
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Hey Oscar,
Thanks for the kind words. The club of Alembic players is relatively small and I've clearly been a fan of these instruments for a long long time. So it kinda makes sense that you'd find me in here with these like-minded folks.
Will you be changing your screen name for each post? HA! Just teasing.
I found a Reverb listing for your bass, hope you don't mind me sharing it. Some lovely pics and also most of the details you would find in the missing build sheet:
https://reverb.com/item/84786273-alembic-mark-king-deluxe-5-2007-with-red-side-leds (https://reverb.com/item/84786273-alembic-mark-king-deluxe-5-2007-with-red-side-leds)
That looks to be in excellent condition and we hope you love it. Let us know when you get your hands on it.
Cheers,
Jimmy J
Hi again Jimmy
It has finally arrived, and I must say it's an experience, to say the least. It definitely sounds very different, coming from a bass with "standard" treble and bass control, so I am struggling with how to make sense of all the tonal possibilities it has. I'm feeling quite overwhelmed, to be honest.
One thing I noticed: When sighting down the neck, from the headstock towards the bridge, I notice that the neck looks virtually straight on the treble side, but there is a slight backbow on the bass side (it's tuned B-G) - is that normal for an Alembic? I notice quite a bit of buzz at the 15th fret especially, and the B-string in general feels a bit more prone to buzzing than the E A D and G string, but isn't that due to the increased gauge of the B string? (it's .130)
Edit: I forgot to mention, that when using the string as a straight edge, meaning I fret at the 1st and 24th fret, there is no space on either the B or G string at the 24th fret, which I have been told should indicate a straight neck.
Also: Forgive my ignorance, but it came pre-adjusted, and I haven't touched the truss rod, and it seems to be playing quite nice with a low action and my lighter touch, but how can one make sure that the dual truss rod setup doesn't warp the neck over time? Also, how can one make sure that the truss rods are "equal" in tension?
Kindest regards
Oscar
PS: Silly me! I forgot to change my username this time! :D
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Hey Oscar,
Glad to hear you've got that lovely machine in your hands. I know what you mean, it's quite a leap from a standard electric bass setup but don't be intimidated. It's just a well built tool to help you make music.
Here's an in-depth description of the controls:
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=276.0 (https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=276.0)
And here's a good detailed guide on adjusting the action:
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=311.0 (https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=311.0)
About the controls: I would suggest starting with the Q-boost switches "off", the Q-frequency controls wide open, and start to get an idea of the straight sound of each pickup. Then find a blend of the two pickups that pleases you and use that as a starting point for experimenting with the filters.
You'll find that you can vary the sound a LOT by where your right hand plucks the string, how strongly you play, etc. These basses have an amazing wide response to tone and dynamics.
Also don't fear the double-truss rods. Just think of it as extra assistance when setting up your action. They don't need to be exactly the same tension. The neck on your bass is a very strong laminated "sandwich" so don't worry about making adjustments. In my own experience, once you get the action feeling good it rarely moves. That can vary between different instruments because they're all made of wood, but the structure is very solid.
Do some tweaking and let us know how it goes. Post questions as they come up.
Enjoy that thing!
Jimmy J
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<Snip>
You'll find that you can vary the sound a LOT by where your right hand plucks the string, how strongly you play, etc. These basses have an amazing wide response to tone and dynamics.
</Snip>
This statement!
Alembic creates a fabulously broad palette of sounds with the electronics package alone.... now add to that the User's Input and man oh man what a horizon of tones/ sounds. :)
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Oscar, With your bass tuned to pitch: capo the 1st fret on the B string while holding down the 15th fret at the same time. While holding down at both of these frets: Slide a thin guitar pick between the top of the 8th fret and the bottom of the string... see if the pick slides in cleanly and just fitting. This is a great starting point for neck relief that is recommended by a few makers. Since you have some back-bow on the B-side you could loosen that rod a 1/4-1/2 turn.
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Hey Oscar,
Glad to hear you've got that lovely machine in your hands. I know what you mean, it's quite a leap from a standard electric bass setup but don't be intimidated. It's just a well built tool to help you make music.
Here's an in-depth description of the controls:
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=276.0 (https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=276.0)
And here's a good detailed guide on adjusting the action:
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=311.0 (https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=311.0)
About the controls: I would suggest starting with the Q-boost switches "off", the Q-frequency controls wide open, and start to get an idea of the straight sound of each pickup. Then find a blend of the two pickups that pleases you and use that as a starting point for experimenting with the filters.
You'll find that you can vary the sound a LOT by where your right hand plucks the string, how strongly you play, etc. These basses have an amazing wide response to tone and dynamics.
Also don't fear the double-truss rods. Just think of it as extra assistance when setting up your action. They don't need to be exactly the same tension. The neck on your bass is a very strong laminated "sandwich" so don't worry about making adjustments. In my own experience, once you get the action feeling good it rarely moves. That can vary between different instruments because they're all made of wood, but the structure is very solid.
Do some tweaking and let us know how it goes. Post questions as they come up.
Enjoy that thing!
Jimmy J
Hi Jimmy
I have been experimenting with your approach, and so far it seems like I'm partial to using both pickups at the point where the pan 'clicks' to indicate it's 50/50. The interesting thing is that, for now at least, I'm playing with gain on max, both Q switches on, and both filters wide open - perhaps with time I will dial back at least one of the filters, but it does seem a little bit 'extreme', so to say, haha! Inspired by you, I'm also using Boomers with the B-string at gauge .130, and I must say they sound really nice, compared to the stainless steel strings I was using on my other bass. I was surprised by how quiet the electronics are - it's very impressive how quiet they are, even without muting the strings with your fretting hand!
In regards to the truss rods: I actually had a well regarded luthier and repairman inspect it, and he did say that there was a slight difference between the treble side and the bass side - the interesting thing is that he told me that the added relief would accommodate for the increased movement of the B string in particular, so in his opinion he would leave it as is. He could adjust it to be even, but with the chance of the entire B-string buzzing. I guess I had this view of both rods really needing to be at the exact same point, and any deviance could cause problems long-term. Like you, he also noted the multi laminated neck and body, so he told me that the chance of the neck getting warped was very low. He told me that older Rickenbackers with double truss rods had each of them working independently, if I recall correctly at least, and that it seemed like Alembics had a (copper?) block at the beginning of the truss rod cavity, leading him to wonder if the entire neck had this block of copper, or if it was only inserted at the beginning - do you know anything about this? :)
It was a long time since he had an Alembic in his hands, but he seemed impressed by it.
Again: Thank you for your time and hospitality - I'm very honored and appreciative.
Kind regards
Oscar
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<Snip>
You'll find that you can vary the sound a LOT by where your right hand plucks the string, how strongly you play, etc. These basses have an amazing wide response to tone and dynamics.
</Snip>
This statement!
Alembic creates a fabulously broad palette of sounds with the electronics package alone.... now add to that the User's Input and man oh man what a horizon of tones/ sounds. :)
I agree - first time I played it through an amp, the B string had the entire room almost shaking, and I normally play with a light touch and not a lot of volume! Now, the quest for adjusting myself to an Alembic AND a 5 string begins! :)
Kind regards
Oscar
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Oscar, With your bass tuned to pitch: capo the 1st fret on the B string while holding down the 15th fret at the same time. While holding down at both of these frets: Slide a thin guitar pick between the top of the 8th fret and the bottom of the string... see if the pick slides in cleanly and just fitting. This is a great starting point for neck relief that is recommended by a few makers. Since you have some back-bow on the B-side you could loosen that rod a 1/4-1/2 turn.
Hi KR
Thank you for the advice. As per a luthier and repairman who looked it over, I used the wrong word, so I apologize! If I were to make an adjustment, I could introduce some back-bow, but the luthier and repairman advised me to leave it as is, because the current difference in relief on the bass side is only slight, and, as per him, it is accommodating for the added movement of the B-string, and if I, or he, were to make it 1:1, I would instead have the entire string B string buzz against the frets. I think the problem here is that:
A) it's the first time I have an instrument this expensive in my hands, so I'm quite paranoid about any type of deviance
B) it's the first time I play a bass that has dual truss rods, so I have all sorts of worries in my head (if there is anything in there?), a lot of them probably unfounded, but better safe than sorry!
C) I had this worry that any alternating action would warp the neck long-term, and not considering that (and I hope I am correct here) the two truss rods are there for extra stability, to minimize the chance of warpage, and to allow greater flexibility in adjusting the setup to what suits me. In short: There is no right or wrong, as long as the differences aren't very big between both sides.
D) it's a dream for many people to own an Alembic, so I also want to honor that by taking great care of the instrument :)
Sorry for the wall of text to everyone so far! I hope it's okay - else let me know, and I will try to shorten my replies.
Kind regards
Oscar
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*Disregard this post - I made a mistake while trying to edit a post and ended up quoting myself instead!*
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Hey Oscar,
Thanks for the report, we're glad you're enjoying that thing.
That's great if you like the "50/50" spot on the pan pot. I believe you can also use the trim pots in the electronic cavity to further tweak the balance at that spot. But if it's already good then you're already there.
Q-switches in the boost position will give you bonus top-end which can be great for slap-style for example. With the Q-controls wide open it's quite a high frequency you're boosting. If that's too much "sizzle" then click them off - or maybe just one - and hear what that does. With the switches in the off position the Q-frequency controls work like standard low-pass filters or treble roll-offs. With the switch "on" that roll-off frequency gets a boost so as you turn the knob it can almost sound like a wah-wah pedal sweeping through the frequencies.
Some Alembic guys really use those onboard controls creatively and come up with some great sounds. I'm lazy and rarely move any of my controls. I do add a touch of top-end Q-boost to the bridge pickup only. Middle switch setting on my older Series I and just a few degrees of the variable control boost on my Series IIs. But find what you like and go for it!!
Yes, the electronics in these instruments are amazing. Designer Ron Wickersham is an absolute audio wizard so we have him to thank for the BIG TONE.
I don't actually know about the truss rod channels that run through the neck - how they're laid, lined, or whatever. Somebody else in here might chime in and describe them in more detail if you're interested. My understanding of the system is that the truss rods just help the neck stay straight when the strings are trying to pull it forward. They're in there to balance the forces. My 5-strings necks are fairly narrow but I don't think there is a "block" so much as just a "plate" on the adjustable end of the rods - and presumably the same up in the headstock somewhere. And most likely brass plates, not copper, unless that was part of an original custom build (because Alembic can literally do anything).
I think how you set up your action is a really personal thing. Certainly your low B-string can physically move about 100 times farther than your high G-string. But I've never really thought about having the actual neck relief different from one side to the other. Maybe just tilt the bridge a bit to lift the low strings higher, if you know what I mean. Again, my close-spaced necks are narrower than yours but I've always just adjusted the rods in unison and never noticed them doing anything different from one side of the fingerboard to the other. Don't be afraid to try, they're made to be adjustable. The only time mine need attention is when the weather moves the wood, so maybe a couple times a year.
Carry on. Keep us updated!
Jimmy J
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Hey Oscar,
Thanks for the report, we're glad you're enjoying that thing.
That's great if you like the "50/50" spot on the pan pot. I believe you can also use the trim pots in the electronic cavity to further tweak the balance at that spot. But if it's already good then you're already there.
Q-switches in the boost position will give you bonus top-end which can be great for slap-style for example. With the Q-controls wide open it's quite a high frequency you're boosting. If that's too much "sizzle" then click them off - or maybe just one - and hear what that does. With the switches in the off position the Q-frequency controls work like standard low-pass filters or treble roll-offs. With the switch "on" that roll-off frequency gets a boost so as you turn the knob it can almost sound like a wah-wah pedal sweeping through the frequencies.
Some Alembic guys really use those onboard controls creatively and come up with some great sounds. I'm lazy and rarely move any of my controls. I do add a touch of top-end Q-boost to the bridge pickup only. Middle switch setting on my older Series I and just a few degrees of the variable control boost on my Series IIs. But find what you like and go for it!!
Yes, the electronics in these instruments are amazing. Designer Ron Wickersham is an absolute audio wizard so we have him to thank for the BIG TONE.
I don't actually know about the truss rod channels that run through the neck - how they're laid, lined, or whatever. Somebody else in here might chime in and describe them in more detail if you're interested. My understanding of the system is that the truss rods just help the neck stay straight when the strings are trying to pull it forward. They're in there to balance the forces. My 5-strings necks are fairly narrow but I don't think there is a "block" so much as just a "plate" on the adjustable end of the rods - and presumably the same up in the headstock somewhere. And most likely brass plates, not copper, unless that was part of an original custom build (because Alembic can literally do anything).
I think how you set up your action is a really personal thing. Certainly your low B-string can physically move about 100 times farther than your high G-string. But I've never really thought about having the actual neck relief different from one side to the other. Maybe just tilt the bridge a bit to lift the low strings higher, if you know what I mean. Again, my close-spaced necks are narrower than yours but I've always just adjusted the rods in unison and never noticed them doing anything different from one side of the fingerboard to the other. Don't be afraid to try, they're made to be adjustable. The only time mine need attention is when the weather moves the wood, so maybe a couple times a year.
Carry on. Keep us updated!
Jimmy J
Hey Jimmy
I find it interesting how, as for now, my tonal preferences keep changing on a daily basis - perhaps I am tweaking filters in my sleep! I noticed how Mica, in the electronics post you linked earlier, sometimes utilized the pan knob as a treble / bass control, which I find really shows how versatile the controls are, once you become more familiar with them. I do still find myself looking for that "classic" treble / bass knob, while playing! I may be wrong, but is the lack of a Q-switch on a Series instrument because of the CVQ knob, which is similar in theory and function, but allows for more precise adjustment, instead of the "on-off" Q-switch on a signature bass?
And I find the attention to detail in craftsmanship really astounding on these instruments, once you actually have them in your hands. One thing is the woodwork and choice of materials (I dont think I have ever seen aircraft fasteners on a bass bridge before) and what you see on the "surface". I always knew Alembics were something special, but small details like having (brass?) inserts, instead of bare wood, in the holes that keep the truss rod cover in place, to minimize the chance of stripping the screw holes (I assume, at least) are also part of the discovery of why these instruments are so special - at least to me.
I found the Owners Manual on this website, and read Mica's suggestion on how to measure the relief with a medium sized pick. Possibly because I am a little bit of a perfectionist (perhaps another reason I was drawn to Alembic?) and perhaps in text I was exaggerating the relief when talking about the truss rods - I took a look at the rods underneath the truss rod cover, and they seem to be nearly identical in distance. I haven't done any adjustments to them.
I took a picture of the rods and uploaded them, if your interested: https://imgur.com/a/WTEjvxN
I compared them with a picture made a while ago on this forum http://alembic.com/club/messages/394/49337.html?1221650444
Kind regards
Oscar
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Oscar,
Yes, the Series II's "Continuously Variable Q" control is simply a pot instead of the Series I's 3-position switch. The switch version was 0db, +6db, +9db. I believe your MK switch is +8db so in-between the Series model choices.
The build quality of Alembic gear is off the charts because from the beginning it was designed for professional touring. Built to be serviceable and to hold up under extreme conditions. In the almost 50 years I've been playing them I've never run into a serious problem.
Don't judge the truss rods by what you can SEE in the cavity. They may even be hand-cut to length and they don't need to be exact, so that may vary. For example, below is a pic of one of my '89 Series IIs. I don't know how much thread is beneath those nuts but it doesn't matter because the system is working fine. The only thing that matters is how tight they are. So get yourself a small open-ended 1/4" wrench and see how they feel.
Do not fear the truss rods. :D
Keep going!
Jimmy J
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Oscar,
Yes, the Series II's "Continuously Variable Q" control is simply a pot instead of the Series I's 3-position switch. The switch version was 0db, +6db, +9db. I believe your MK switch is +8db so in-between the Series model choices.
The build quality of Alembic gear is off the charts because from the beginning it was designed for professional touring. Built to be serviceable and to hold up under extreme conditions. In the almost 50 years I've been playing them I've never run into a serious problem.
Don't judge the truss rods by what you can SEE in the cavity. They may even be hand-cut to length and they don't need to be exact, so that may vary. For example, below is a pic of one of my '89 Series IIs. I don't know how much thread is beneath those nuts but it doesn't matter because the system is working fine. The only thing that matters is how tight they are. So get yourself a small open-ended 1/4" wrench and see how they feel.
Do not fear the truss rods. :D
Keep going!
Jimmy J
Hey Jimmy
We did it: The truss rod was tightened very, very gently after first loosening it a little bit, and it didn't seem to be a problem in regards to feeling tight, and there was a difference almost immediately. I have been reading that it can take some time for the instrument to settle, so I'll check up on it tomorrow. I know it's better to adjust in small increments, so I'm proceeding very slowly. I was fortunate to have someone with feeler gauges help me out, and the treble and bass side were quite close after the small adjustment, but do they have to be (exactly) the same, or is a very small amount of difference within tolerance? Also thinking in terms of how thick the low B is, compared to the thinner G string, and the ease of sliding a measuring tool underneath it.
As was pointed out to me, the instrument is also 17 years old, so I was told the wood has mostly settled by now, making it even more stable. If it stays well and won't need any immediate adjustments, I will take note of your approach, and tighten them the same on both rods. While playing it I'm not noticing anything wildly out of place (it's still a whole new experience playing an Alembic, so that has to factored in, I guess), and I am trying not to turn it into something to obsess over, in a bad way, if you understand. I was actually thinking of getting a torque wrench, but even those instruments have a variance in accuracy, so I might be overthinking this whole ordeal.
We are making progress! :D
Oscar
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Hey Oscar,
Great! Glad to hear you've overcome your fears and done some adjusting. That's why those nuts are there and accessible so don't be afraid.
How you set up your action is a personal thing so people may have different approaches. It is all only about how it feels to you when you play. Set it up to best suit your playing style, it feels comfortable, and you can get what you want out of the instrument. This is NOT an exact science so when you talk about feeler gauges and torque wrenches you are (in my opinion) getting a little too far into the deep end. ;) It's just about how YOU like the action to be.
"Settling in" can happen a bit so see how it feels in coming days. It's also wise to retune the bass after making adjustments because it can affect the opposing force of the string tension.
Changes in weather have the biggest effect on mine but even my different basses move in different ways so it's a bit organic. And for me, I see the double-truss rods as working like a single force against the pull of the strings. So I adjust them with roughly the same amount of torque or tightness - but just by feel. My fingerboards are narrower than yours but I've never been aware of one side having more relief than the other as a result of the double-rod setup. Maybe that's possible, but I don't know.
The relief (gap to the frets) across the fingerboard is completely up to you but doesn't need to be the same from one side to another. Because your low B-string is likely to move quite a bit farther than your high G. I make up for that variation by tilting the bridge so it's higher on the low-string side.
Carry on! Don't forget to sit and play that thing for many hours at a time.
Jimmy J
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Hey Oscar,
Great! Glad to hear you've overcome your fears and done some adjusting. That's why those nuts are there and accessible so don't be afraid.
How you set up your action is a personal thing so people may have different approaches. It is all only about how it feels to you when you play. Set it up to best suit your playing style, it feels comfortable, and you can get what you want out of the instrument. This is NOT an exact science so when you talk about feeler gauges and torque wrenches you are (in my opinion) getting a little too far into the deep end. ;) It's just about how YOU like the action to be.
"Settling in" can happen a bit so see how it feels in coming days. It's also wise to retune the bass after making adjustments because it can affect the opposing force of the string tension.
Changes in weather have the biggest effect on mine but even my different basses move in different ways so it's a bit organic. And for me, I see the double-truss rods as working like a single force against the pull of the strings. So I adjust them with roughly the same amount of torque or tightness - but just by feel. My fingerboards are narrower than yours but I've never been aware of one side having more relief than the other as a result of the double-rod setup. Maybe that's possible, but I don't know.
The relief (gap to the frets) across the fingerboard is completely up to you but doesn't need to be the same from one side to another. Because your low B-string is likely to move quite a bit farther than your high G. I make up for that variation by tilting the bridge so it's higher on the low-string side.
Carry on! Don't forget to sit and play that thing for many hours at a time.
Jimmy J
Hey Jimmy
Yes - thank you very much for helping me in overcoming my fear of the dual truss rods :) - it is, after all, the first time I have seen an instrument with this setup.
Yeah that's a great way of articulating what I was trying to express! I sometimes have a tendency to approach it as a very exact science, and sometimes forget that there are so many variables that have an effect on how an instrument plays and feels over time. As you said, it IS a well made tool to help us play the music we like and also hopefully inspire us, which ultimately is the end goal (in my opinion at least). After all, they are handmade by talented humans, and not engineered to miniscule specifications by a machine from beginning to end. Thankfully the instruments are very adjustable, and Alembic's are very well made instruments, so we have the opportunity to find out what works out the best for us, by experimenting.
Now that you mention that you have a more narrow fingerboard, I'm curious to know how narrow it is, if you don't mind sharing. As you said earlier, Alembic can customize an instrument to great lengths, so I'm curious to know what you like the most - after all, it is a bit of a journey to travel across the Atlantic Ocean to visit the Alembic factory, so I am just thankful that I have the opportunity to play an instrument this nice.
Back to turning the filter knobs!
Oscar
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Hey Oscar,
Glad you're enjoying your setup journey. It is great that they're so well built and still adjustable to suit an individual's tastes.
I don't mean to highjack your thread but since you asked; my first 5-string was made in 1976 and I think it may have been built on a 4-string neck. I found the close string spacing worked well for me so all 5 of my Alembics were similarly built. My 3-fretted basses all have a nut that is about 1-7/8" (48mm) from edge to edge. Fingerboard at the 12th fret is around 2-1/8" (54mm) wide and at the 24th fret about 2-1/4" (58mm). My two fretless basses have graphite necks and so they have slightly different proportions. A smaller nut at around 1-5/8" (42mm), same 12th fret 2-1/8" (54mm) and wider at the 24th 2-3/8" (60mm). The end result is that most people feel the string spacing is a bit tight for the right hand. But that's what I'm used to and I still like it. Anything else I play feels way too big. :D
You can see how one might get very specific about a custom build. And Alembic can basically do whatever you can dream up. It's an amazing shop.
Carry on now. Keep twiddling and then do more noodling. (Hope that doesn't translate wrong.)
Jimmy J
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Hey Oscar,
Glad you're enjoying your setup journey. It is great that they're so well built and still adjustable to suit an individual's tastes.
I don't mean to highjack your thread but since you asked; my first 5-string was made in 1976 and I think it may have been built on a 4-string neck. I found the close string spacing worked well for me so all 5 of my Alembics were similarly built. My 3-fretted basses all have a nut that is about 1-7/8" (48mm) from edge to edge. Fingerboard at the 12th fret is around 2-1/8" (54mm) wide and at the 24th fret about 2-1/4" (58mm). My two fretless basses have graphite necks and so they have slightly different proportions. A smaller nut at around 1-5/8" (42mm), same 12th fret 2-1/8" (54mm) and wider at the 24th 2-3/8" (60mm). The end result is that most people feel the string spacing is a bit tight for the right hand. But that's what I'm used to and I still like it. Anything else I play feels way too big. :D
You can see how one might get very specific about a custom build. And Alembic can basically do whatever you can dream up. It's an amazing shop.
Carry on now. Keep twiddling and then do more noodling. (Hope that doesn't translate wrong.)
Jimmy J
Hey Jimmy
Interesting that your 5-string was built on a 4 string neck. I can imagine that does make for a quite tight string spacing, but also allows for very controlled and economical right hand technique. Just like Gary Willis called his ramp a "slap stopper" I guess your string spacing functions in a similar way, haha. Does your neck also affect how the string tension feels? They feel a bit tight to me, but I read somewhere on this site that Alembics can feel a bit tighter than other brands, but why this is the case, aside from the properties of strings, I am not sure of. I noticed that the (tailpiece?) on your bridge looks a lot different than on a MK - was that also something you ordered specifically to allow for it to harmonize with your neck? It must feel a lot more wide to play a "standard" 5 string neck, if you are used to those dimensions - I also felt the same way, coming from a 4 string to this. Again, it would probably also be a quite costly affair if you suddenly decided that a different neck width felt better, haha!! :D
Speaking of bridges: Since you mentioned that you raised the bass side slightly more than the treble side, I noticed that the bridge on this MK is as low as can go on the treble side, and with more height on the bass side. The action at the 12th fret is just around 2.0 mm on the low B, and around the same for the treble side - the nut also looks slightly slanted towards the treble side, but I haven't measured it (yet! - just kidding). Does that mean this bridge doesn't allow for much lower than 2.0 mm action, or am I misunderstanding something? Like you said, action is a personal preference, but I haven't seen a bridge like this before.
Back to twiddling and noodling (with time, hopefully more noodling than twiddling - hope that also doesn't translate wrong)
Oscar
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Hey again Oscar,
I never confirmed that my original 5 was on a 4-string neck but the dimensions seem to indicate that was the case. And I believe Alembic's experiment with graphite necks were all built around the same mold so 4- or 5-string. My fretless 5s might be quite rare in that case.
That's right, I never got into slap-style playing. Not necessarily because of my string spacing but at some point I decided to leave that to the experts. I never got pick-playing together either. I might just be lazy! :o
The string tension "feel" is one of those things I've never quite understood. Maybe one of the luthiers here can explain further. It obviously varies based on scale length, string gauges, and the material the strings are made of. Even the same gauges and materials but built by different manufacturers can feel different. But I'm pretty sure bearing angle (if that's the correct term) over the nut and bridge, plus the length of string beyond the nut and bridge also affect the feel. That's all a mystery to me.
My tailpiece design is slightly odd and partially an accident relating to my 1976 5-string. I've always enjoyed fresh strings so my request was for a "quick-change" tailpiece. I knew I was going to stick with ghs Boomers so the idea was to design the tailpiece around that specific ball-end. Alembic came up with the idea of steel pins mounted into a brass plate which the ball-ends could easily be slipped over.
But a further issue we had related to "fan" headstock on that bass (see pic below - not mine but borrowed from another thread). It had 3-tuners on the low-string side and 2 on the high-string side which meant the space between the nut and the tuning peg was shortest on my lowest string. Nobody sold 5-string sets at that time so I started with the largest E-string I could find, a .120. The problem was, the winding on that string was so long it barely tapered before reaching the tuning peg. And that large winding was not going to be happy wrapping around the small Schaller peg.
So the clever answer was to extend the end of the string as far as possible beyond the bridge allowing the upper end to start tapering just as it passed the nut. Second pic below is the wacky result - although ironically in that pic I was not using the "extended" pin.
When I had the replacement basses made I requested headstocks with 2-tuners on the low-string side and 3 on the high-string side to help alleviate this issue with the B-string. But I really enjoyed the "quick-change" idea of sliding the ghs ball-ends onto pins so that's how we got to the current design (pic 3).
Bridge; yes, it's not abnormal for the high-string side to be set very low. (And a 2mm action sounds nice and low!). Again, all parameters may change if you ever try different string gauges or even brands. Truss rod and bridge height adjustments work hand in hand so you should always be able to get to where you need to by coordinating those adjustments. However, if for example you ever ran into a situation where you couldn't lower the bridge far enough then you could look into deepening the slots of the bridge saddles. Not a major operation but hopefully you won't need to go that far.
Sorry for the long-winded reply.
Jimmy J
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Hey again Oscar,
I never confirmed that my original 5 was on a 4-string neck but the dimensions seem to indicate that was the case. And I believe Alembic's experiment with graphite necks were all built around the same mold so 4- or 5-string. My fretless 5s might be quite rare in that case.
That's right, I never got into slap-style playing. Not necessarily because of my string spacing but at some point I decided to leave that to the experts. I never got pick-playing together either. I might just be lazy! :o
The string tension "feel" is one of those things I've never quite understood. Maybe one of the luthiers here can explain further. It obviously varies based on scale length, string gauges, and the material the strings are made of. Even the same gauges and materials but built by different manufacturers can feel different. But I'm pretty sure bearing angle (if that's the correct term) over the nut and bridge, plus the length of string beyond the nut and bridge also affect the feel. That's all a mystery to me.
My tailpiece design is slightly odd and partially an accident relating to my 1976 5-string. I've always enjoyed fresh strings so my request was for a "quick-change" tailpiece. I knew I was going to stick with ghs Boomers so the idea was to design the tailpiece around that specific ball-end. Alembic came up with the idea of steel pins mounted into a brass plate which the ball-ends could easily be slipped over.
But a further issue we had related to "fan" headstock on that bass (see pic below - not mine but borrowed from another thread). It had 3-tuners on the low-string side and 2 on the high-string side which meant the space between the nut and the tuning peg was shortest on my lowest string. Nobody sold 5-string sets at that time so I started with the largest E-string I could find, a .120. The problem was, the winding on that string was so long it barely tapered before reaching the tuning peg. And that large winding was not going to be happy wrapping around the small Schaller peg.
So the clever answer was to extend the end of the string as far as possible beyond the bridge allowing the upper end to start tapering just as it passed the nut. Second pic below is the wacky result - although ironically in that pic I was not using the "extended" pin.
When I had the replacement basses made I requested headstocks with 2-tuners on the low-string side and 3 on the high-string side to help alleviate this issue with the B-string. But I really enjoyed the "quick-change" idea of sliding the ghs ball-ends onto pins so that's how we got to the current design (pic 3).
Bridge; yes, it's not abnormal for the high-string side to be set very low. (And a 2mm action sounds nice and low!). Again, all parameters may change if you ever try different string gauges or even brands. Truss rod and bridge height adjustments work hand in hand so you should always be able to get to where you need to by coordinating those adjustments. However, if for example you ever ran into a situation where you couldn't lower the bridge far enough then you could look into deepening the slots of the bridge saddles. Not a major operation but hopefully you won't need to go that far.
Sorry for the long-winded reply.
Jimmy J
Hey Jimmy
First of all - please don't apologize for the elaborate reply - it was (and is) a very interesting and insightful read.
Second of all - I apologize for the delay.
The way that you and Alembic were able to come up with a solution to the 5 string dillemma is as much of an interesting read, as it also is an entertaining read, if that makes sense. I honestly thought the 2-3 string split on the headstock, was a way to distribute the string tension across the neck and bridge, but I guess, that in a way, your initial struggles with tapering and string length, paved the way for us to be able to enjoy the modern reiteration of the 5-string electric bass, so thank you for that :). In my opinion, the latest reiteration of your tailpiece is the most aesthetically pleasing one, and I am usually a function over form-kind-of-person, but I also find it interesting to know if the design of the tailpiece allows for you to feel very small changes in the way your preferred strings have evolved over the years? If they even have, and if that makes sense. and also: With experience, does it still, to this day, make a big difference in the speed when changing your strings? :D (sorry, I just had to ask that question.)
As you said earlier, Alembic can build almost anything a bass player can imagine (which I feel you have demonstrated with your reply!) so I am curious to know what inspired you to start playing a 5-string bass - I hope my questions don't bother you (and please, do not worry about the course of the thread, or the length of your replies, at all!)
Sorry in advance, for MY reply.
Oscar
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Oscar,
Well OK then I'll keep going. :D I've got a 20-year-long thread of my own in here if you want to read the entire novel:
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8041.0 (https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8041.0)
And here's a forum trick; if you spend some bit time stepping through and selecting threads, the next time you log in you can click on "show unread posts since last visit" near your name in the upper left of the page and see only what's new.
Back to your questions... I think the traditional "fan" headstock and then the later "cone" shape were designed to make the string pull straight over the nut. I mean as you look at it straight on the string doesn't turn left or right but runs straight from the nut to the tuning post (see that "fan" shape pic above). It doesn't matter whether you have a 2/3, a 3/2, or even a Fender style with all tuners in a row because the tension remains the same.
Amazingly, ghs has been winding these questionably named "Boomers" on the same machines and with the same formula for all these years. The company has been passed down to younger management who have kept it going and the product has been very reliable.
Here's a quick and boring description of my string change routine:
I remove one string and set the tuning machine's empty slot in the direction of the neck. I pop the new string's ball end onto the tailpiece pin, pull it tight, wrap the upper part around the tuning post ONCE, bend it downward into the slot, and bend it outward after the slot. Then I pop the ball end off the pin and give the string a twist in the direction of the outer winding (that's just one of my weird things). Pop it back on and bring it up to pitch. Move to the next string. Once I've done all five I'll press the strings into each bend - pressing down on both sides the bridge, same over the nut, same at the tuning peg. Then I'll grab the middle of each string and pull it back and forth like I'm trying to shoot arrows with a bow. I bring it all up to pitch and it's ready to go - and stays in tune from that point on.
It's still a relatively quick operation and it wouldn't be that much slower with a traditional tailpiece. It's not like a Strat or anything. But this still works for me and let's just say I've had a lot of practice over the years.
Again, probably all covered in my mile-long thread but ... my dad was an upright player in the Minnesota Orchestra when I was a kid. Many of the orchestra basses had low-C "extensions" which are mechanically keyed "fingers" which extend the low-E string down to C. We were trying to figure out how to do that on an electric bass but finding an extra long E-string and trying to add moving mechanics which wouldn't be heard through the amp seemed unworkable. Some orchestra players - particularly in Europe at that time - had begun playing 5-string basses so that's what got us pointed in this direction. I'm pretty sure Alembic had already made some multi-string basses by the mid-70's but most had upper strings. Even Fender made a five in the '60's but hilariously it had a high-string and a shorter fingerboard so no extra notes were available. ???
There you have it. Now you know everything!
Thanks,
Jimmy J
-
Oscar,
Well OK then I'll keep going. :D I've got a 20-year-long thread of my own in here if you want to read the entire novel:
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8041.0 (https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8041.0)
And here's a forum trick; if you spend some bit time stepping through and selecting threads, the next time you log in you can click on "show unread posts since last visit" near your name in the upper left of the page and see only what's new.
Back to your questions... I think the traditional "fan" headstock and then the later "cone" shape were designed to make the string pull straight over the nut. I mean as you look at it straight on the string doesn't turn left or right but runs straight from the nut to the tuning post (see that "fan" shape pic above). It doesn't matter whether you have a 2/3, a 3/2, or even a Fender style with all tuners in a row because the tension remains the same.
Amazingly, ghs has been winding these questionably named "Boomers" on the same machines and with the same formula for all these years. The company has been passed down to younger management who have kept it going and the product has been very reliable.
Here's a quick and boring description of my string change routine:
I remove one string and set the tuning machine's empty slot in the direction of the neck. I pop the new string's ball end onto the tailpiece pin, pull it tight, wrap the upper part around the tuning post ONCE, bend it downward into the slot, and bend it outward after the slot. Then I pop the ball end off the pin and give the string a twist in the direction of the outer winding (that's just one of my weird things). Pop it back on and bring it up to pitch. Move to the next string. Once I've done all five I'll press the strings into each bend - pressing down on both sides the bridge, same over the nut, same at the tuning peg. Then I'll grab the middle of each string and pull it back and forth like I'm trying to shoot arrows with a bow. I bring it all up to pitch and it's ready to go - and stays in tune from that point on.
It's still a relatively quick operation and it wouldn't be that much slower with a traditional tailpiece. It's not like a Strat or anything. But this still works for me and let's just say I've had a lot of practice over the years.
Again, probably all covered in my mile-long thread but ... my dad was an upright player in the Minnesota Orchestra when I was a kid. Many of the orchestra basses had low-C "extensions" which are mechanically keyed "fingers" which extend the low-E string down to C. We were trying to figure out how to do that on an electric bass but finding an extra long E-string and trying to add moving mechanics which wouldn't be heard through the amp seemed unworkable. Some orchestra players - particularly in Europe at that time - had begun playing 5-string basses so that's what got us pointed in this direction. I'm pretty sure Alembic had already made some multi-string basses by the mid-70's but most had upper strings. Even Fender made a five in the '60's but hilariously it had a high-string and a shorter fingerboard so no extra notes were available. ???
There you have it. Now you know everything!
Thanks,
Jimmy J
Hey Jimmy
Thanks for the tip - so far I have manually navigated to this thread, but it's a great way of also seeing what's going on.
I didn't know about the thread that you linked, but it didn't take long for me to find almost all of the questions I have asked you thus far, answered at some point... Sorry for that, haha :o. I did read a few very interesting stories about your time with Allan Holdsworth (an artist whose music AND playing, I greatly appreciate, and who continues to inspire me, but also sometimes frighten me - meant in the most appreciate way, of course!)
I recall reading on this forum, a saying that goes something along the lines of: "In the beginning, you don't play an Alembic - it plays you!", And I must say that, although I have gotten a bit more used to it by now, it sometimes still makes sure to let me know "who's in charge", for now. I can imagine how these instruments, long term, really force you to pay attention to your technique, but also reward you diligently. But then again, playing an Alembic through an Audio Interface kind of is throwing yourself straight into the deep, when your used to a J-style bass! It's impressive how the same settings and the same instrument, can sound quite different on different days - I don't think I have ever seen this on another instrument, but I don't mind it at all - it adds some "spice" to playing an Alembic, which around these parts, is already a bit of an exotic (meant in a good way) thing. For now, the pan knob is tilted slightly to the bridge pickup, and I'm letting the filters stay wide open with both Q-switches enabled. Tomorrow or in a few days, they will probably have changed :D - and I haven't even begun to look at the trim pots!
I will add, that I listened to you, and I have made sure so far, to sit down and play that thing for hours on end!
Oscar