Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: fivestringdan on March 04, 2024, 07:44:53 AM
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Greetings!
I am curious what the club uses for their live stereo bass amplifiers. I have a Wayne Jones stereo preamp. Very well built and sounds great.
Let me know what you have and why you like it.
Thank you!
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I actually don't currently have any such thing (my guitar amp is a Silvertone 1484 Twin Twelve & my bass amp is an Ampeg Rocketbass B-50R), but this is a common question around here, and I stopped lurking and joined 18 years ago just to say the following:
The only power amp I would spend my own money on - and the only one I'd spend your money on if you let me decide - is a Yamaha. In my soundman days I used Crown, Crest, BGW, Traynor, QSC, Peavey, and probably some I'm forgetting; the only one that didn't color the sound, and the only one never crapped out on me mid-gig, is Yamaha. What goes out is exactly what came in (but a lot louder), and they do not quit!
Your turn, Wolf.....
Peter (who is willing to trade the Silvertone - now a hot item, it seems - for a good small Fender.......)
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I think I took your advice a few years ago and found a P3200..lol
I actually don't currently have any such thing (my guitar amp is a Silvertone 1484 Twin Twelve & my bass amp is an Ampeg Rocketbass B-50R), but this is a common question around here, and I stopped lurking and joined 18 years ago just to say the following:
The only power amp I would spend my own money on - and the only one I'd spend your money on if you let me decide - is a Yamaha. In my soundman days I used Crown, Crest, BGW, Traynor, QSC, Peavey, and probably some I'm forgetting; the only one that didn't color the sound, and the only one never crapped out on me mid-gig, is Yamaha. What goes out is exactly what came in (but a lot louder), and they do not quit!
Your turn, Wolf.....
Peter (who is willing to trade the Silvertone - now a hot item, it seems - for a good small Fender.......)
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I think I took your advice a few years ago and found a P3200..lol
I actually don't currently have any such thing (my guitar amp is a Silvertone 1484 Twin Twelve & my bass amp is an Ampeg Rocketbass B-50R), but this is a common question around here, and I stopped lurking and joined 18 years ago just to say the following:
The only power amp I would spend my own money on - and the only one I'd spend your money on if you let me decide - is a Yamaha. In my soundman days I used Crown, Crest, BGW, Traynor, QSC, Peavey, and probably some I'm forgetting; the only one that didn't color the sound, and the only one never crapped out on me mid-gig, is Yamaha. What goes out is exactly what came in (but a lot louder), and they do not quit!
Your turn, Wolf.....
Peter (who is willing to trade the Silvertone - now a hot item, it seems - for a good small Fender.......)
Congratulations! So you're actually set, right?
Peter
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I don't run stereo but do bi-amp. For both my bass rig and PA/monitor system I use QSC PLX series power amps. For my bass rig I use a PLX3002. The PA/monitor system is a mix of PLX 1602, 2402, 2502 and 3602 power amps. All have been reliable for me.
As I think of downsizing and clearing out a lot of my gear if I were to stay with a discreet preamp/power amp arrangement I would probably start looking at Class D stuff for the power amp. In fact the heads I have been considering all have Class D output stages.
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I have two different ones on my rigs. I have a Crown XLS1502 for my bi-amped rig and a 1U SYNQ1K0 stereo power amp on my mono rig. I had some issues with the SYNQ a few years back but after i took it to my service guy, he said it had collected a lot of dust and after he cleaned it out, he could not find anything wrong.
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I do run stereo and I have the Wayne Jones WJBAII (1000wpc). I think it's fantastic!! It was the only single unit I could find that would do true stereo in/out. I used to use a WJBPII (preamp only version) with a two channel amp (or two SWR amplites) and now that I have the WJBAII the WJBPII is up for sale (pm me if you'd like a good price on it!).
The *only* thing I'd like to see differently is matching gain on the two channels. Channel two is setup more for an upright bass and so has ~60db of gain adjustment. I spoke to Wayne last year at NAMM and did suggest that he add a switch to match gain ranges for people like me who are running stereo electric basses. He seemed to get and like the idea but I haven't seen any change on new units yet.
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There were some companies making stereo bass amps. Eden WT1205, Warwick LWA. Anyone have luck with something like that?
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I run a WJBA 2800 into a pair of Bergantino HG10's (one for each channel) and it's pretty darn great. But it is huge and heavy.
Trickfish had a stereo head at NAMM that got a lot of press but specs are fleeting - looking forward to understanding it better when it's on their website with full specs- will likely pick one up if it would be a good match with a Series instrument?
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I just had my Yamaha P2200, which I have owned for over 40 years, gone through by my electronics tech. Very little to bring it right back into spec, and sounds great. Bass rig has a QSC PLX3402, which has been bullet proof. I have a few of the new Mesa Subway heads, and a pair of the single 15's, and they are very impressive, and extremely light.
Pete
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Another Yamaha guy here…though the Phil Jones BP 800 at 800w/400w and 5 lbs. is looking more interesting the older I get.
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Bass rig has a QSC PLX3402, which has been bullet proof.
Pete
I find that interesting; in experience, only Traynor broke down with greater regularity than QSC. I mean, both were less reliable for me than Peavey, for Pete's sake.
Peter
Peter
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This one is easy. Two amps and two cabs…one on each side of the drummer. Whatever your back (or your roadie) can carry. Kick in your stereo chorus and stereo delay…heaven!
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Peter, In the 15+ or so years I've owned QSC power amps I haven't had a failure. That includes full day use outside in the North Carolina summer and sitting on top of my bass rig cabinets.
There was a time before I owned QSC amps that they had a reputation for having board mounted capacitor leads break due to vibration. The field fix for this was to run a hot glue bead over all of the caps so they supported each other. In fact I recall a talk with one of their technicians who recommended this for amps used in high vibration environments. However QSC wasn't alone in this regard.
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Peter, In the 15+ or so years I've owned QSC power amps I haven't had a failure. That includes full day use outside in the North Carolina summer and sitting on top of my bass rig cabinets.
Good.
There was a time before I owned QSC amps that they had a reputation for having board mounted capacitor leads break due to vibration.
My experience with them was late '70s-mid '80s.
The field fix for this was to run a hot glue bead over all of the caps so they supported each other. In fact I recall a talk with one of their technicians who recommended this for amps used in high vibration environments.
Well, if that works, I wish someone had told me!
However QSC wasn't alone in this regard.
No, indeed; as I said, only Yamaha never broke. But QSC was 2nd from the bottom on the reliability list for me.
Peter
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Phil Jones make a two channel combo. Anyone have experience with that company?
https://www.pjbworld.com/cms/index.php/product_suitcase_compact_bg-400/
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My only experience with Phil Jones was with their Micro 7 which is suppose to share the preamp with their Session 77 combo and from the looks their newer BE-17. I bought the M-7 for when my wife and I are traveling and as something I could use with folks playing acoustic guitars. I ended up returning it. I could not get a balanced tone without a lot of distortion at anything above conversation levels. That experience has put me off their smaller amps. If I were in the market I would consider one of their 4 speaker or larger combos but would have to spend some time with it before making a permanent decision.
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The best I ever sounded was through a component rig with one of the 80's Yamaha P2200 amps; I forget the model #, but the big one with the VU meters.
These things were BUILT. We did a house system install in a club that later burned down. We retrieved the rack with 4 Yamaha power amps, and three of them went on to live long (albeit always with a slight smoke smell even after all the cleaning we could do), productive lives afterwards. In those days, all the likely suspects (Crown, Crest, QSC, etc.) were all players, but none were built as well as the P-Series Yamahas though they could be very good, and none of them were as anvil-reliable in all cases.
I would not hesitate to buy any of their current offerings, IF I could walk away from lightweight Class D rigs and could go back to hauling Big Iron.
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I agree the Yamaha power amps sound fantastic. I use a Yamaha X8 and I like it as well.
I was think about a smaller rig for stereo as well. I have two Marshall Dynamic Bass System 7200 that i use as a stereo rig as well. Talk about monstrous! I saw that Phil Jones use to make a D-600 two channel amp. Maybe find one used see how it sounds.
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I can’t really say that much about the smaller PJB suitcase type of models but my big rig consists of my Yamaha power amp, SF-1 and a pair of F1-X preamps when I want to go the stereo route. Those are played through an 8 x 5 cab ( which I use alone for smaller gigs that are acoustic other than me) and 16 x 5 plus the other cab for all electric. I’ve had lots of compliments on my sound being “clean” and able to nicely cut through the electric guitar and drums (and one negative comment that my sound was too clean and I needed to produce a more “DD & D” sound (the drunk commenter defined it as “down, dirty and distorted”
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The best I ever sounded was through a component rig with one of the 80's Yamaha P2200 amps; I forget the model #, but the big one with the VU meters.
Well, I have been racking what's left of my aged brain for hours, and cannot call up the models (help me out, Wolf?); I do seem to recollect that we used 3 different models in that line: A 2-space unit for highs, a couple of 3-space ones for high- and low-mids, and a big honkin' one for lows.
These things were BUILT. We did a house system install in a club that later burned down. We retrieved the rack with 4 Yamaha power amps, and three of them went on to live long (albeit always with a slight smoke smell even after all the cleaning we could do), productive lives afterwards.
Yeah - now that's the reliability I'm talking about! I'm just shocked that one died.
Peter
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I wanted to try some of their larger cabinets. I'm very happy with my Bag End cabs atm but would hurt to check something else out.
I can’t really say that much about the smaller PJB suitcase type of models but my big rig consists of my Yamaha power amp, SF-1 and a pair of F1-X preamps when I want to go the stereo route. Those are played through an 8 x 5 cab ( which I use alone for smaller gigs that are acoustic other than me) and 16 x 5 plus the other cab for all electric. I’ve had lots of compliments on my sound being “clean” and able to nicely cut through the electric guitar and drums (and one negative comment that my sound was too clean and I needed to produce a more “DD & D” sound (the drunk commenter defined it as “down, dirty and distorted”
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I purchased the cabs from a member in Chicago so they were used. Shortly after they arrived I noticed distortion in one of the cabs and traced it to a specific speaker that looked and sounded blown. Called PJB and talked with some really nice people there about the problem and not only did I have a replacement speaker at my doorstep 3 days later (at no cost to me) but installation instructions so detailed a 8 year old could have done the work and some free PJB schwag. I know a lot of people who just don’t buy the PJB premise that an array of many 5 inch speakers moves as much air as a few large ones, but if clean sound and letting your Alembic sound shine through is what you want along with getting plenty of low end the larger cabs are worth a try.
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been lurking on this thread. it's a prototypical sloppy march winter day here in the mile high, i'm as little bored, between dog walks and getting baked so here we go...
I know a lot of people who just don’t buy the PJB premise that an array of many 5 inch speakers moves as much air as a few large ones, but if clean sound and letting your Alembic sound shine through is what you want along with getting plenty of low end the larger cabs are worth a try.
i've been in the stereo camp for years. these days my stereo basses consist of a 4-string fretless anneversery and a 5-string fretted series II. i've never gotten a good solid bottom out of my neck pickup channel with anything smaller than a 15", especially with the 5-string. my road 15" cab weighs 38 lbs. including the integrated 250 watt amp. a fair trade-off imho.
i use a PJB 2x4 for the bridge pickup channel in my home setup. the definition and impulse response is definitely a cut above the 2x10 speaker i use for my road cab imho. i can get away with it in stereo mode because the bridge channel doesen't really pass any fundamentals, it's all overtones, fret rattle and string noise as far as i can tell.
ymmv and all that rot.
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I will side with Beendown here. I have been told that (for instance) eight 5" speakers make a 40" air column, thus more than one 18". Not so; eight 5" speakers make eight 5" air columns. Bass needs a large air column to be right; at least a 15", 18" even better (I have no experience with 21" speakers, but smile at the very thought....).
Smaller speakers are fine for bi-, tri-, or quad-amping, but you need some meat down low.
Peter (who will admit to being a cranky old fart, but wants to feel the bass)
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I just got a PJ 2x7 cab with a smaller driver for the highs. I have it set up with a Genz Benz 1x12 and together they sound great. I would really like to hear the larger PJ stuff and there are some very large cabs local. I've only run one amp through it so far and need to get some others to test out but beendown's description is close..lol More fiddling for sure and I need to find a room to listen other than a slab floor like me house.
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I will say that the PJ box is how I like to hear highs. I haven't compared it to my Bag End 15 cab with the horn but I'm liking the PJ so far.
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guess i didn't address the neck channel. last summer i was putting together a new stage rig so i experimented with this setup to figure out what i really need for each. i'm sure there's some body of knowledge out there about this so i've probably re-invented the wheel.
with the SII especially, the sonic spectra from each pickup seems to have no middle ground. i.e. i only get fundamental out of the neck, very little high frequency content except for transients like from popping the strings. the bridge is just the opposite. even using the neck channel to amplify the bridge pickup yields very little bottom end. so i used that to my advantage. i don't need an especially high-quality/full range cab for the neck cabinet. it's just gotta be able to handle me pounding on the B string without coming outta the basket. the brand i picked for this purpose is relatively cheep, lightweight and pumps out the grunt.
the bridge speaker doesn't have to handle low frequencies at high volumes, so a small, quick responding driver can deliver the squank without getting blown out by low frequencies.
pretty sure i've heard about guys using a guit@r amp for the bridge channel in their stereo bass rigs. makes sense to me, that's essentially what the PJB is in my rig even though it's called a bass amp.
this won't work as well with a mono bass btw imho. i use the same rig driven in parallel with my mono basses but they don't come close to the clarity and definition i get from the stereo basses. same with using the stereo basses in mono mode. stereo is the shizzle.
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I had not considered that. I have a peavey classic 50 that's a screamer. I bet it would sound great used as the bridge pickup amp.
guess i didn't address the neck channel. last summer i was putting together a new stage rig so i experimented with this setup to figure out what i really need for each. i'm sure there's some body of knowledge out there about this so i've probably re-invented the wheel.
with the SII especially, the sonic spectra from each pickup seems to have no middle ground. i.e. i only get fundamental out of the neck, very little high frequency content except for transients like from popping the strings. the bridge is just the opposite. even using the neck channel to amplify the bridge pickup yields very little bottom end. so i used that to my advantage. i don't need an especially high-quality/full range cab for the neck cabinet. it's just gotta be able to handle me pounding on the B string without coming outta the basket. the brand i picked for this purpose is relatively cheep, lightweight and pumps out the grunt.
the bridge speaker doesn't have to handle low frequencies at high volumes, so a small, quick responding driver can deliver the squank without getting blown out by low frequencies.
pretty sure i've heard about guys using a guit@r amp for the bridge channel in their stereo bass rigs. makes sense to me, that's essentially what the PJB is in my rig even though it's called a bass amp.
this won't work as well with a mono bass btw imho. i use the same rig driven in parallel with my mono basses but they don't come close to the clarity and definition i get from the stereo basses. same with using the stereo basses in mono mode. stereo is the shizzle.
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I had not considered that. I have a peavey classic 50 that's a screamer. I bet it would sound great used as the bridge pickup amp.
I am reminded of Cipollina explaining the reasoning behind his rather mind-blowing rig, which was, for each pick-up on his SG, a Standel bass amp for lows; for highs one got a Fender Twin Reverb and one got a Dual Showman head driving 6 Wurlitzer horns: "I like the rapid punch of solid-state for the bottom, and the rodent-gnawing distortion of the tubes on top."
Peter
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When multiple small drivers feels and sounds satisfying, but somehow inadequate...
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/despacio
I read about this system the other day in a great article about the Wall of Sound posted on a website that has since shut down. The people that designed this were not Deadheads but acknowledge that the lineage of the technology they used and the audio design concepts started with the Dead. Peter will be happy that it includes 2x 21" subwoofers. The wattage of the Macintosh power amps used eclipses what was used for the Wall of Sound.
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If this system were to migrate to US clubs, the first thing I would do is pile a bunch of my investment funds into companies that manufacture hearing aids.