Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Dreaming... for now => Topic started by: Spoilers! on May 26, 2023, 08:23:54 PM
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I've just about reached the point that "a custom build would be nice some day" is giving way to "what would that custom build be?". I'm posting in hopes of getting feedback on some of my initial thoughts.
By way of background, I had 35+ years playing 34" scale and slowly gravitated toward fretless. When I got my first Alembic (an '83 Spoiler) in 2019 I became an instant convert to 32" scale. In 2021 I found a fretless '82 Spoiler and it's been true love ever since. The weight isn't bad (under 9 lbs) and the bass plays effortlessly. I rotate through all of my Alembics and few other favorites, but I'm always coming back to the fretless Spoiler.
So why the thoughts of a custom build? I've been dealing with nerve compression in my left shoulder on and off for years, and when that is happening the fingers on my left hand can get a bit uncooperative. It's much more of a problem on fretless compared to fretted, as my intonation and speed go downhill fast. What I'm hoping to achieve with the custom build is a bass with the same basic feel as my '82 Spoiler, but with less weight on my shoulder and less of a reach out to where the first fret would be.
My Alembic experience so far is limited to Spoilers, a Distillate and an SC Sig. Looking only at how they feel (not sound or appearance), the Spoilers are probably the most optimal for me. I absolutely love the Distillate, but I feel that larger body in my shoulder. The reach out to the first fret on the Distillate is the best out of the three models for me, which I chalk up to the bridge being way back against the end of the body. The SC is a mixed bag - the weight is good, the shorter scale helps with fingering when my shoulder is acting up, but the strap button at the neck heel and the bridge location make the reach seem as long - if not longer than on the Spoilers. It is also the only one that I really notice neck dive on. Ironically, my preferences for appearance go in the exact opposite order: I love the small standard body with a crown headstock, and somewhat prefer the look of the Distillate over the Spoiler.
In terms of the potential custom build, I'm intrigued by the idea of a 3/4 Spoiler with a short scale neck. I haven't had a chance to play one, and I'm not holding my breath that it will happen soon. I have seen photos of one or two, and it looks like the bridge sits way back like the Distillate's. I'm thinking that would give me the optimal reach out to the nut, due to the overall body-plus-neck length and also having the strap button on the upper horn (compared to where it is on a small standard body). It seems like that would also be reasonably likely to avoid neck dive.
Just looking at those aspects for now, I'd love to hear any thoughts or ideas you guys have. Any firsthand perspectives on playing a 3/4 Spoiler would also be very much appreciated!
I should also mention that I'm mostly a fan of the older body styles. I can appreciate the look and functionality of an Essence or a Balance K, but appearance-wise they aren't really my thing. I'm not ruling a modern body style out at this point, but I'll probably only go there after ruling out the old school options.
Thanks,
Ken
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Hopefully I'm not violating any protocol by bumping my own post here, but I'm moving toward a custom build and I'm wondering if anybody has experience with a 3/4 Spoiler body ("R" in the serial number). My goal for the build would be to have a similar feel to my '82 Spoiler fretless, but with less weight and and a shorter reach to the nut.
Obviously with a 3/4 body there would be a weight reduction compared to a regular Spoiler, and the one photo I've seen looked like there would be less of a reach to the nut compared to most other body styles. Has anybody here played one? If so, any thoughts on balance or ergonomics?
Thanks,
Ken
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If you are considering medium scale or longer, I would consider the balance/neck dive equation as an inquiry from what Alembic Inc. has discovered as a result of their extensive collective experience with the variable factors of such a custom build proposal :) .
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Thanks for the suggestion. I'm looking at a short scale (30.75") build. The one short scale Alembic I've tried was a Stanley Clarke Signature, but the strap geometry and balance didn't work for me. I think I need the strap button on the upper horn.
I'm pretty big through the chest and shoulders, so I suspect the SC hangs a bit differently on me than on most folks. My Spoiler sits just about perfectly. I'm just heading in a direction where I'll probably need something lighter and with a shorter reach in the next couple of years.
Ken
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Here’s a photo of a custom signature with a 3/4 body that Alembic made for me 10 years ago. The Signature electronics do have something to be said for and at medium scale it balances nicely with the medium scale neck which is the fastest and most comfortable I’ve ever played. The tummy carve took a little of the weight off and the 3/4 body did the rest. Extremely comfortable to play with little neck dive
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How about a short scale Darling bass? That is smaller than a Spoiler (I think), should balance well with the longer upper horn, and would have a short reach to the nut.
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Here’s a photo of a custom signature with a 3/4 body that Alembic made for me 10 years ago. The Signature electronics do have something to be said for and at medium scale it balances nicely with the medium scale neck which is the fastest and most comfortable I’ve ever played. The tummy carve took a little of the weight off and the 3/4 body did the rest. Extremely comfortable to play with little neck dive
Oh man, that's a gorgeous bass! Is the top superb walnut?
Out of curiosity, how does the bass hang with the offset strap button compared to one centered on the neck? I'm talking about the one down by the heart carve.
Thanks,
Ken
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How about a short scale Darling bass? That is smaller than a Spoiler (I think), should balance well with the longer upper horn, and would have a short reach to the nut.
Thanks for the suggestion Rob. The thought of a Darling has crossed my mind a couple of times. If I remember correctly, the photo or two that I've seen of short scale Darlings checked the box for having the tailpiece way down toward the end of the body. Time to do some more browsing!
For what it's worth, I've also pondered the shape of your custom guitar.
Ken
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Adriaan posted this take on a Darling short(er)-scale bass VI on a different thread.
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_crossroads.html (http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_crossroads.html)
Very adaptable.
I think there are a lot of ways to get where you want to, and still stay with the older patterns. It's just easier with the newer, more ergonomic ones. Mica and Susan know what works and doesn't, and to what degree... how much off-balance you can tolerate, and weight constraints are choices when doing a Custom, but just a couple of a couple hundred.
I went that road, and loved every minute... my Custom fretless 5-string was an amalgamation of the 20th Anniversary Omega pattern and some 1970's curves, with a 3+2 Elan headstock, a combination of old and new. The 20th Anniversary Omega was a compromise - a little bit bigger than a 3/4, a little bit smaller than a Standard Series. Then mine was to be a 5-string... which added just a smidge... but when the template was made, they smoothed out those curves to perfection. The Omega-cut; no two were alike. I sent pictures of about 10, and they nailed it.
Like you, I was an instant convert to medium-scale, from my first Alembic, a Persuader 5-string, so my Custom was built as a fretless companion to it. It balances about the same; both are biased heavy neck, but not to a degree that it's a problem for me. Contrast that with my fretless Hyak, a long-scale on a very small body. That scroll-body thing is uber-cool, but is an absolute bullfight with gravity. There's just but so much you can do with a design like that.
Now, have you thought about electronics yet? Because if you're staying with a fretless, there isn't any better (in my opinion) than East-Meets-West, which adds a rotary bass and treble boost/cut to the classic lowpass filter/Q-switch circuit of your Spoiler. Add the new pan preamp so you can better balance the pickups, put an AXY Fatboy at the bridge, and you're set.
Have fun at that drawing board!
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Hi Ken,
my very first Alembic was a short scale Spoiler with a smaller, 3/4 body. From what I know quite a few of these were made for the Japanese market in the 80s/90s. I bought it second hand in Japan and it was a very beautiful bass. It felt quite a bit more compact than the medium scale Spoiler I later owned.
If I were to order a short scale Alembic today it would probably be a Darling with these "old school carved" horns you can see in the picture attached. I think it really combines old school Alembic with the more modern, ergonomic designs. So beautiful!
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The Darling styling is very, very nice.
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Hi Ken,
my very first Alembic was a short scale Spoiler with a smaller, 3/4 body. From what I know quite a few of these were made for the Japanese market in the 80s/90s. I bought it second hand in Japan and it was a very beautiful bass. It felt quite a bit more compact than the medium scale Spoiler I later owned.
If I were to order a short scale Alembic today it would probably be a Darling with these "old school carved" horns you can see in the picture attached. I think it really combines old school Alembic with the more modern, ergonomic designs. So beautiful!
There is some serious love around here for Darlings! I totally get the appeal. This custom build would be intended to replicate as much of my '82 Spoiler as I can, but with lower weight and an even shorter reach to the nut. If I ever head in the direction of something more modern, a short scale Darling will be near the top of my wish list. Interestingly, the couple that I've been able to find with accurate weights given have been over a pound heavier than either of my Spoilers (which could be chalked up to maple vs. koa for the bodies).
I'm glad to hear you say your 3/4 Spoiler felt more compact, as I think that's in line with what I'm hoping to achieve. Was the balance similar between your 3/4 short scale and your medium scale? Does anything stand out in your memory as being significantly different between them (other than the more compact feel)?
Thanks,
Ken
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I don’t know about the experiences of others but my 3/4 Signature medium scale custom (top and back are crotch walnut) hangs at about 1:30 to 2:00. I can hang it a lot lower and in a more traditional position than my short scale SC body basses. With those, it’s a much higher position with the body tucked under the right arm. Totally different than my Signature. I don’t have any experience with a Darling body but while it is a short scale, the body shape would suggest to me that it would balance differently than an SC.
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Adriaan posted this take on a Darling short(er)-scale bass VI on a different thread.
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_crossroads.html (http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_crossroads.html)
Very adaptable.
I think there are a lot of ways to get where you want to, and still stay with the older patterns. It's just easier with the newer, more ergonomic ones. Mica and Susan know what works and doesn't, and to what degree... how much off-balance you can tolerate, and weight constraints are choices when doing a Custom, but just a couple of a couple hundred.
I went that road, and loved every minute... my Custom fretless 5-string was an amalgamation of the 20th Anniversary Omega pattern and some 1970's curves, with a 3+2 Elan headstock, a combination of old and new. The 20th Anniversary Omega was a compromise - a little bit bigger than a 3/4, a little bit smaller than a Standard Series. Then mine was to be a 5-string... which added just a smidge... but when the template was made, they smoothed out those curves to perfection. The Omega-cut; no two were alike. I sent pictures of about 10, and they nailed it.
Like you, I was an instant convert to medium-scale, from my first Alembic, a Persuader 5-string, so my Custom was built as a fretless companion to it. It balances about the same; both are biased heavy neck, but not to a degree that it's a problem for me. Contrast that with my fretless Hyak, a long-scale on a very small body. That scroll-body thing is uber-cool, but is an absolute bullfight with gravity. There's just but so much you can do with a design like that.
Now, have you thought about electronics yet? Because if you're staying with a fretless, there isn't any better (in my opinion) than East-Meets-West, which adds a rotary bass and treble boost/cut to the classic lowpass filter/Q-switch circuit of your Spoiler. Add the new pan preamp so you can better balance the pickups, put an AXY Fatboy at the bridge, and you're set.
Have fun at that drawing board!
Hi Greg,
Thanks for the detailed descriptions and the eye candy!
I've been thinking a lot about balance. I touched on some of that in my original post, but since then I've actually come to a different opinion on my SC Signature. I had set it up as a tenor a couple of months ago, and decided a couple of weeks ago to throw the previous set of Optima flats back on just to run through some songs and remember how that short scale neck felt. I set it up as close to my fretless Spoiler as I could get (1.5 mm at the 12th fret with just a hint of relief, compared to 1.5 mm and dead straight for the Spoiler). I also ditched the padded leather strap I've been using for one with a fleece backing and swapped the strap locks for standard buttons, and the neck heaviness became totally manageable. It may sound odd, but I think the strap buttons did have something to do with the improvement.
Anyway, that confirmed for me that even the shorter distance between strap buttons on the small standard body will work in terms of balance with the right strap. Unless I'm really missing something, that the longer distance with a 3/4 Spoiler body should give an even better balance.
I haven't settled on anything yet in terms of electronics. For a little while I was toying with the idea of single AXY Persuader setup, with an added Q switch. That was mostly to shave a tiny amount of weight, but I know that realistically I should be looking at something more versatile - although I must admit that while my Persuader basically does one thing, it does it exceptionally well.
I love the bass boost switch on my Distillate, so I also thought about Rogue/Europa electronics for a while. The bass switch is rarely off when I play the Distillate, but I think the reason I rely on it so much is that it brings me close to the warmth of the Spoilers' neck pickup location and the koa bodies.
Right now I'm leaning toward either Special or Anniversary electronics. I have really liked the extra definition I get from dialing in the SC's bridge pickup. For what it's worth, on all of my Alembics I set the filters about 25% of the way open and almost always have the Q switches on. I play about 99% finger style and like to have a strong fundamental. Regardless of the controls, one thing that's definitely in the plan is having the neck pickup right up by the neck to bring out the low end, like on the earliest Spoilers.
And just as I go to click "post", the light flickers on over my head. East-Meets-West is like a Distillate, Rogue or Europa, except that you can dial in as much cut or boost as you want instead of a single preset value - correct? I could see that working very nicely.
I figured that I'll mull over the electronics a bit more after I've sorted out the body shape and the body/neck wood recipe.
Ken
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I don’t know about the experiences of others but my 3/4 Signature medium scale custom (top and back are crotch walnut) hangs at about 1:30 to 2:00. I can hang it a lot lower and in a more traditional position than my short scale SC body basses. With those, it’s a much higher position with the body tucked under the right arm. Totally different than my Signature. I don’t have any experience with a Darling body but while it is a short scale, the body shape would suggest to me that it would balance differently than an SC.
Since I switched out the strap buttons I've been using the same strap for the SC as I use for the Spoiler. I have it set for the shortest possible length (it's a center pad with adjustable tails from the front and back). The SC sits up very high just like you described. I guess the Spoiler is a couple of inches lower overall due to having the strap button on the upper horn, but it also hangs about 2:00 or 2:30.
Just for fun I grabbed an old G&L SB-1 off the wall and put a capo at the second fret to get a 30.75" scale. This bass has a body that's noticeably narrower than something like a P or J, but with a similar upper horn length. It also has the bridge right at the end of the body like I'm planning on the custom. That geometry created a whole different balance and feel. I imagine that's about how a short scale Essence would be. Distinctly not like the Spoiler, but probably something I would grow to love over time.
Ken
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Hi Ken,
"Does anything stand out in your memory as being significantly different between them (other than the more compact feel)?"
It has been over ten years since I owned this bass so its a faint memory. Sonically I would say there wasnt a huge difference though the short scale "behaves" a little differently than the medium scale, at least in my experience. Id say the best scenario would be to try out a short scale alembic before committing to a custom order. Personally I prefer the feel of medium or long scale and necks with more substance. But I have long arms and big hands. The 3/4 Soiler felt almost too small for me. But then again look at Stanley Clarke ;-) Its all very personal.
*** ups just saw that you do have a SC Short Scale? Sorry still quite early here and i didnt read through everything ;-) Well then you know the difference first hand. In regards to balance I think its all about how long the upper horn is, how far the bridge extents into the body and location of strap locks. I would always prefer a bass with a longer upper horn. Less reach, less "neck dive", and the ability to balance the bass anywhere between 1 and 3 oclock. The 3/4 Spoiler was easier to handle on the strap playing standing up than the regular size Spoiler.
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I don’t know about the experiences of others but my 3/4 Signature medium scale custom (top and back are crotch walnut) hangs at about 1:30 to 2:00. I can hang it a lot lower and in a more traditional position than my short scale SC body basses. With those, it’s a much higher position with the body tucked where to buy phenq (https://www.outlookindia.com/outlook-spotlight/phenq-where-to-buy-get-original-and-best-price-huge-saving--news-300837) under the right arm. Totally different than my Signature. I don’t have any experience with a Darling body but while it is a short scale, the body shape would suggest to me that it would balance differently than an SC.
Since I switched out the strap buttons I've been using the same strap for the SC as I use for the Spoiler. I have it set for the shortest possible length (it's a center pad with adjustable tails from the front and back). The SC sits up very high just like you described. I guess the Spoiler is a couple of inches lower overall due to having the strap button on the upper horn, but it also hangs about 2:00 or 2:30.
Just for fun I grabbed an old G&L SB-1 off the wall and put a capo at the second fret to get a 30.75" scale. This bass has a body that's noticeably narrower than something like a P or J, but with a similar upper horn length. It also has the bridge right at the end of the body like I'm planning on the custom. That geometry created a whole different balance and feel. I imagine that's about how a short scale Essence would be. Distinctly not like the Spoiler, but probably something I would grow to love over time.
Ken
Good to know about your SC. It would be great if you share some pictures of it.
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Two months later, and I'm continuing to inch closer to a custom build. No major breakthroughs on body style in that time, but the discussion today about 75-150 gave me a big nudge on materials. Here are a couple of quotes from a 2004 thread on 75-150, which Poor Nigel estimated to weigh about 7.5 pounds:
Hey Tom. The neck is a reversed walnut with maple laminates.
<snip>
Hi Mike. Walnut beauty? The body is Koa with a birch core. The neck is walnut, and it is a beauty.
The Walnut neck and Koa laminates are probably the biggest contributors to
light weight, at least compared to other Alembics. The Walnut looks like
California Claro walnut, not the more dense Black Walnut to me, but you
really can't tell just from looking (unless you're looking at a
sample under magnification).
The thinness of the neck will also be a factor in the weight reduction. Some
of those old fingerboards are really thin! But I guess it works--this one's
close to 30 years old.
I've unexpectedly ended up with a short scale Series I with a small standard body (#80-1711 - thanks again Rob!). That has me rethinking electronics options, but I am pretty much down to a body decision between small standard or 3/4 Spoiler. I've been switching between 80-1711 and my fretless Spoiler (full size) at band practices. I love them both, so the body style might ultimately come down to a coin toss. 80-1711 has me rethinking neck profiles, as I'm really settling in to the 1 5/8" comfort taper compared to the 1 3/4" nuts on my Spoilers.
Here's how the build is shaping up so far:
- Neck recipe: Short scale (30.75"), "reversed" 5-piece (walnut with maple laminates), TBD classic vs. comfort taper
- Body: TBD small standard vs. 3/4 Spoiler, core possibly birch or similar density wood, top/back wood TBD
- Electronics: TBD, but leaning toward Series I or Anniversary with Series prep. Neck pickup up close to the fingerboard.
- Fingerboard: Fretless ebony
- Headstock: Beveled edges, probably crown shape.
I'm posting this now mostly just to avoid losing track of the info on 75-150, but I'd welcome any feedback or suggestions!
Ken
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Keep in mind that if you are going the Series route as far as electronics, your bass is going to be a good deal heavier hanging off your shoulders than a non-series bass. As the owner of both series and non-series basses, I would say that unless you plan on playing in stereo mode most of the time including during live performances, you can get pretty much any tone out of a non-series Alembic than you can out of a series bass if you are running the former through an Alembic Superfilter (SF-1). So if weight is a real issue for you, keep in mind that series electronics and the shere size of a bass that fits them will make a difference in weight.
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Brian, I don't think the Series electronics package is what adds the weight. But maybe fitting it actually requires a larger body? Or brass plates instead of some other material? I'm not sure. Yes, it includes a second 9V battery, but that also means more wood has been routed out so I wonder what weighs more?
I would think the biggest factor effecting weight would be the combination of woods you choose. Once Ken starts talking details with Mica she can sort him out on all these details. Have you long list of questions ready!
I for one am an advocate for the Series electronics package but that's only because I've been stuck on it for over 40 years. HA!! It does come with certain complications - the external power supply being the most obvious. But it is IMO still the most amazing onboard preamp system ever devised.
Jimmy J
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I can hear a difference between the Activator pickups themselves and the Series pickups. To my ears the Seiries pickups have a rounder, slightly deeper and more open sound. That said I have never heard a bad sounding Alembic pickup or electronics package, any choice will be sonically top-notch.
Interested to see your final decisions on a build. My somewhat useless opinion would be to skip a Signature package with Series prep. Mainly because you would have to send the bass back for the conversion and the time it would take. There is currently a wait for conversions and Series upgrades no telling if it will abate in the future. If you go with Series electronics you will have the full attention of the shop during your build, once it is finished you can just play it as long as you want without looking back. Signature or Series are both excellent choices, we are lucky to have so many amazing choices available to choose from.
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Thank you all for the feedback!
I remember reading somewhere (I believe it was a post by Mica) that on a Series II the electronics alone weigh about two pounds. I'm not sure how much of an increase that is over any of the non-Series options, but I will definitely need to factor that in. I was seriously thinking early on about doing a fretless, 3/4 version of my Persuader. That single AXY gets me to a very happy place tone-wise, even without a Q switch. There's no way to go lighter than that on back and shoulder, but I'm afraid I'd end up regretting the extra bit of shaping a second pickup brings. I figure I'll wait until all of the other build details are settling into place and then come to a decision on the electronics.
I'm realizing now that the thicker body needed for a Series bass might give a very different feeling than my Spoilers and Persuader. I definitely notice the difference in thickness between my 80-1711 and my SC. I believe the SC is even a hair thicker than the Spoilers. I wonder if Anniversary electronics can fit in the thinner Spoiler body.
As I think more about the reversed five-piece neck with walnut and maple, I'm starting to picture a cross between a Spoiler and a Brown Bass. Depending on how the weight would work out, a 3/4 Spoiler with the reversed neck and some combination of walnut and myrtle for the body or maybe walnut and birch. I could be happy either way if it minimizes weight.
Ken
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Are you perhaps thinking of something like the Inside-Out Brown Bass wood recipe? Very tasty.
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Are you perhaps thinking of something like the Inside-Out Brown Bass wood recipe? Very tasty.
Yes, that is what I'm thinking. The references I've checked point to Claro walnut and myrtle having about the same density. I might have a tough choice deciding which to put on the top.
Ken
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So I've thought about this a lot more and finally decided it was time to reach out to Alembic. Mica gave me quite a bit to think about regarding what's best for my sonic preferences , how we can realistically minimize weight, and how we can minimize stress on my left shoulder while I'm playing.
Minimizing stress on my shoulder should be pretty simple. Part is limiting the weight, which I'll mention next. The other part will be minimizing how far out and up I need to reach my left hand as I'm playing. I've been rotating between my different Alembics for band practices and gigs and getting (unflattering) photos when I'm just focused on playing the music. When I have the 32" scale Spoiler at the best height and angle, my left elbow is right against my ribs it I'm at about fret #7 or higher and not too far out when I finger lower notes. A short scale neck would bring the low notes in even closer. That's as relaxed as I'm going to be able to get my shoulder, so a Spoiler body style it will be. That also works for me aesthetically. The newer designs like Essences and Darlings are beautiful, but Spoilers are more my speed.
There are gong to be a lot of decisions to make on minimizing weight. First will be taking the body down to the old 3/4 Spoiler template. That won't take the dimensions down quite as small as an Essence, but it won't be vastly different. I love the look, and I'm good with that weight trade-off to stick with the Spoiler style. Mica suggested mahogany as the primary neck laminates, instead of the walnut "reversed" neck. That's based on weight as well as my sonic preferences. The other laminates are still to be decided, but she has me listening to some recordings and thinking about adding an ebony stringer. The pros would be getting the tone down deep where I prefer it, and maximizing sustain. The cons would be cost and a slight increase in weight. I was thinking about a sustain block even though it would add weight; Mica mentioned the possibility of doing it in aluminum or even a dense wood. That will probably just be a future decision on which material to use. I've never had a bass with LEDs, so I won't miss them. Losing the LED battery's weight will offset adding the sustain block. We'll shoot for a neck profile similar to my '82 Spoilers with some wood removed at the neck heel, and shed an ounce or two there. Lightweight tuners will round things out.
I had asked about the possibility of a relatively thin, solid koa body like my Spoilers if I could source the lumber locally. In the interest of weight reduction we're leaning toward a sandwich body with hollow wings instead. The options are still wide open on choice of woods, but a koa/koa/koa sandwich is at the top of the list.
Electronics are totally up in the air at this point. When I mentioned that early on I had been thinking about a single AXY like my Persuader, Mica gave some very positive thoughts about the simplicity and tone of a single pickup design. I'm just not sure whether I would miss being able to add a little bit of bridge pickup in like I do with my Series 1. So maybe a single AXY with Q switch, maybe Anniversary, who know at this point. Another Series 1 isn't entirely off the table, as Mica says that can now work with any body thickness and won't add appreciable weight.
Here's the recap. Bold font is a definite:
- Short scale (30.75")
- Custom neck laminations (likely mahogany with birch or maple)
- Fretless ebony board
- 3/4 Spoiler body shape
- Hopefully body thickness similar to early production koa Spoilers, or as thin as they can get it
- Beveled head stock
- Head stock shape (probably small crown, like on a Darling)
- Body wood or sandwich TBD (possibly koa/koa/koa)
- Hollow body wings for weight relief
- Electronics TBD (possibly single AXY or Anniversary)
- Probably no LEDs (to save battery weight, plus I've never used them before anyway)
- Sustain block (possibly aluminum or hardwood to reduce weight compared to brass)
- Wood/brass tailpiece (to reduce weight compared to solid brass)
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated! Anybody have experience out there I could learn from?
Thanks!
Ken
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Brian, I don't think the Series electronics package is what adds the weight. But maybe fitting it actually requires a larger body? Or brass plates instead of some other material? I'm not sure. Yes, it includes a second 9V battery, but that also means more wood has been routed out so I wonder what weighs more?
Hi Jimmy,
Mica told me that a Series One package no longer requires a thicker body or adds significant weight. I think she said it can go into any production body style now.
When we talked LEDs, she mentioned the battery weighing slightly more than most wood.
She also suggested that I ask about your experience with alternate materials for sustain blocks. I would love to hear any thoughts you have on that.
Ken
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Hey Ken,
We're all excited to be following your build here and hope you can get it underway soon. You need to be playing this thing!
My first 5-string way WAY back in 1976 had an issue with not quite being able to move the bridge saddle far enough down to properly intonate the B-string. Even though that string didn't have a very useable sound up high on the neck... My dad was a bass player but also a piano technician and had a great shop in our basement. We decided we'd try to make a new bridge block and relocate the bridge mounting screws to get a bit more travel out of the saddles. He didn't have any big chunks of brass laying around but did have a large block of aluminum so that's what we used.
I loved the sound of that bass (sadly lost in 1987) so my 3 current Series fretted basses were all built to the same specs, including aluminum blocks.
The thing is - I'm sorry to say I can't describe the difference between using brass or aluminum. I can't remember how, or even if, it noticeably changed the sound of the bass. Sorry about that, not much help in your decision making. :o
The last thing I want to say is - it's thrilling to put together a built-to-order Alembic and to realize they can literally do anything you can dream up. Mica continues to give you great advice all along your journey but it's time to get that thing into production!! C'mon now! We want to hear you play it!
Jimmy J
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Hi Jimmy,
Thank you for the info and also for the nudge forward. I actually do have a gear sell-off happening to fund the custom, and that is hopefully going to be a done deal within the next couple of days. Then I will be nailing down the order with a dealer in the next week or two and onward to a hopefully not-too-long wait with the Mothership.
I am sweating out details, but just because I want this to be the bass that I "ride off into the sunset". I know that however this turns out will be an amazing instrument. I'm a "measure twice, cut once" kind of guy I guess. Or maybe "measure twice, then twice more, then cut" would be more accurate.
Anyway, thanks again for all of the feedback. Without no dealerships within 500 miles to check out Alembics in person, it's been very helpful getting insight and ideas from the forum. Now I think I'm down to just figuring out the electronics, and the rest will be pure aesthetics.
Ken
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The dreaming is over and the waiting has begun.
Hopefully this will end up being about the lightest an Alembic can be. The neck will be five piece with mahogany and walnut laminates. The body will be a redwood/mahogany/redwood sandwich with hollow construction and the lightest mahogany they can source. It'll have the small Spoiler body and a small crown headstock.
I ended up going with signature electronics, with a Fatboy in the bridge position and the neck AXY moved up close to the fingerboard (like on my '82/'83 Spoilers). Q switches will be upgraded to three-ways.
I decided to go with LEDs since they were part of the monthly special. Might as well. To avoid the battery weight I'm adding a five-pin connector as the only way to power the LEDs. That gets rid of four batteries, and the wood that would have been around the battery compartment goes away. Using the DS-5 also makes dying batteries a non-issue.
The one thing I wasn't able to get was blackened hardware. That's off the menu due to supplier issues. Oh well, the brass hardware doesn't look bad on any of my other Alembics...
Thanks again guys for all of the input along the way. Hopefully I can get a factory-to-customer thread going in case anybody is interested in the build.
Ken
Ken
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Congratulations on getting it going! The wood choices and extra hollow construction should have a nice sound. The light weight will be nice and woods should be beautiful as well :)
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Most excellent choices!
Have you considered plated hardware instead of blackened? Nickel and ruthenium would be on the low-key side of things.
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I'm waiting to see what the actual top and back pieces we've identified will look like. I've never been a fan of redwood overall, since most of the examples I've seen had fairly wide and curved grain patterns and I really prefer straight, tight grain. Will and Mica both made persuasive cases for redwood being the best option for light weight, and Mica was able to locate these bookmatched sets as a potential top and back:
This is reclaimed redwood salvaged from old growth logs. Based on the vendor's description, I think this is probably "sinker redwood" from trees cut in the 1800s that ended up at the bottom of rivers for over a century. I'm crossing my fingers that up close the grain will be similar to this "sinker redwood" top:
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I'd like to post a photo of the Series II that inspired the neck recipe, but it looks like I can't save one from Instagram.
By the way, after browsing through a LOT of photos I ended up really liking the look of redwood burl. If I ever go for a fretted twin for this bass, it's likely going to have a burl top.
Ken
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Most excellent choices!
Have you considered plated hardware instead of blackened? Nickel and ruthenium would be on the low-key side of things.
Great point! I was thinking of ruthenium as an alternative to black. I can't remember now whether it was cost or availability that dissuaded me. I guess if black becomes an option again in the future, I could always send the bass back for an upgrade!
One thing we are doing is using a black nut and washer for the 1/4" jack so that all of the controls are black. The jacks aren't available with a black barrel, but with the black nut and washer the bright metal barrel shouldn't be too obvious.
I did go with a compound ebony/brass tailpiece like they put on Brown Basses, and I will probably end up ordering an ebony sustain block to shave a bit more weight and tie the colors together.
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I guess you could always side mounting the jack to keep the bright metal off the front of the bass completely and recessed maybe?
Being no expert on woods i'm surprised redwood is considered a lightweight option. That's based on the fact i have a series bass with a burl redwood top and back and one with a maple top and back, both with ebony in the neck and the redwood feels the heaviest.
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Hi Jazzy,
Redwood is a softwood, but so is the maple from the western US (where quilting and wide flame is most common). I haven't played an Alembic with any maple but I do own a couple of Rickenbackers and early G&Ls that are primarily maple. They are all on the lightweight end of the spectrum. Is the maple in your Series bass flamed, quilted or birds eye?
Side mounting the 1/4" jack was my first choice for exactly those reasons, but it would have added some weight due to (a) needing a thicker body, and (b) the the jack itself being a different part that is significantly heavier.
With the Signature electronics, five-pin jack and a three-way LED switch, the controls are going to resemble a Series I layout but without the hum canceller. Space might get tight on the small body, so Mica is going to run the layout by me before any drilling starts.
Speaking of the body, I meant to post this picture a couple of messages back. It's a comparison Mica drew overlaying the Essence, Spoiler and 3/4 Spoiler body templates. Just in case it's helpful to anybody else's custom ideas...
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Exciting to see another Custom fretless come together. Had mine out on a gig last weekend... never disappoints. For that matter, neither does the fretted Persuader 5 that inspired it.
Enjoy the ride. :)
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Hi Spoilers, my maple is quilted.
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I think you’re going to love the 3/4 body. I did the same 3/4 sizing to my custom signature deluxe and not only do I like the weight savings but along with the neck it makes that bass so easy to play compared to the standardpoint full-bodied basses I have.
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This is reclaimed redwood salvaged from old growth logs. Based on the vendor's description, I think this is probably "sinker redwood" from trees cut in the 1800s that ended up at the bottom of rivers for over a century. I'm crossing my fingers that up close the grain will be similar to this "sinker redwood" top:
Ken
I love old wood! Last month I bought a Wilkinson P bass with an alder body (150 years old) and a maple neck with a rosewood fingerboard (both over 100 years old). It has such a great feel. As an aside, it was made alongside a bass for Peter Cetera who wanted something to bring on the road because his '65 P was too precious. It wasn't too long before he considered the Wilkinson too valuable. I just gig everything.
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I dropped by this thread whilst researching Koa on the forum. Did this dream materialise into a bass?
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No sightings yet. I did let Mica know I'd be glad to do a Factory to Customer thread when the time comes, so if she isn't too swamped hopefully we'll get to see early glimpses of how the non-figured redwood looks sometime soon.
Thanks for asking!
Ken
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Update: Mica let me know that we're looking at birth date sometime this summer. The waiting is tough, but on the plus side I was able to score a fretted 3/4 Spoiler from '87 that was for sale in Japan last year. Playing it removed all doubt about my choice of that body style for the custom. It also gave time for the Crest to come out. At Mica's suggestion, we're probably going to incorporate some parts of the Crest's wood recipe to pull the weight down a little bit more.
Ken