Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: lbpesq on January 20, 2023, 01:57:21 PM
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I thought this might be appreciated around here. A physicist's explanation of "swing" in jazz. Very interesting read.
Bill, tgo
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/01/18/1139783203/what-makes-songs-swing-physicists-unravel-jazz-mystery
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Very cool, Bill! I purchased the Nicholas Payton album with tunes he played in the article’s video. Thanks for posting! :)
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Thanks for sharing! I can see why someone would want to analyze specific aspects of a performance to try and figure out something that was always intuitive to a lot of musicians. The results aren't terribly surprising but the analysis was interesting.
The advent of recording to click-tracks or re-recording parts until they are "perfectly in time" and the ability to move the timing of notes slightly to align everything exactly using digital technology has had, IMO, some really negative effects on music. If musicians play like a metronome it sounds incredibly stiff and boring. Mastering a instrument should include being able to play in time but also learning to play WITH time to create a feel or atmosphere. It is awful as a bass player to play with a drummer who doesn't know how to swing and bring life and personality into the music. One thing the Grateful Dead learned as a band early on was the ability to set a tempo and feel, internalize it, and then let each member decide where the one is during a jam, the only way you can pull this off is if your inner clock keeps track of time without being a slave to it. Of course jazz musicians have been able to do this for quite a while. Hearing what their music developed into it isn't surprising that the Dead listened to a lot of Coltrane together when they were getting started.
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The fact that this retired physicist / amateur saxophonist would chose to "publish" these findings makes me giggle. So "feel" has to do with "timing"? Whadaya know!! I do NOT look forward to hearing the AI jazz soloists which are certainly coming soon. Oy!
Jimmy J
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Thanks for sharing! I can see why someone would want to analyze specific aspects of a performance to try and figure out something that was always intuitive to a lot of musicians. The results aren't terribly surprising but the analysis was interesting.
Stephen, that’s what scientists do, they are compulsively curious data geeks and can’t help it (I know, I’m one of them). :)
Jimmy, I work with AI, I’ll try to add a little feel to it if I venture that way :)
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The following line from the article seems perplexing:
“Fittingly, physicists now think they've got an answer to the secret of swing — and it all has to do with subtle nuances in the timing of soloists.”
It appears that the lab coats are saying that, “It ain’t got that swing, if there’s no soloing.”
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Stephen, I like your other comments too. I think Kreutzman referred to this as “the continuous one” :
From your post above: “ One thing the Grateful Dead learned as a band early on was the ability to set a tempo and feel, internalize it, and then let each member decide where the one is during a jam, the only way you can pull this off is if your inner clock keeps track of time without being a slave to it.”
And, “ Mastering a instrument should include being able to play in time but also learning to play WITH time to create a feel or atmosphere.”. Oh Yes! :)
I also like the comparisons of the Dead’s 72-73 spacey sections of Playin’ in the Band and The Other One with the stuff Miles was doing in the early-mid 70s (i.e., Live at the Fillmore, Bitches Brew, On The Corner, Big Fun…).
“feel your way, feel your way like the day before…”
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The following line from the article seems perplexing:
“Fittingly, physicists now think they've got an answer to the secret of swing — and it all has to do with subtle nuances in the timing of soloists.”
It appears that the lab coats are saying that, “It ain’t got that swing, if there’s no soloing.”
I think this fits in with what Stephen was describing as everyone is really soloing their part at the same time and adding these nuances, consciously or subconsciously, as they meld with each other into what Bootsy might refer to as “The One”…
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In explaining the Dead to a newby, I’ve often described Dead music as a jazz approach using rock ‘n roll tools.
Bill, tgo
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Theo Geisel? So Dr. Suess was a physicist, too? ::)
Allow to see if I can summarize - by quoting Michael Paré as Eddie Wilson in that cinematic classic Eddie And The Cruisers II, "Don't step on the beat - kick it."
Peter (who is shocked that he has now publicly admitted to seeing that turkey)
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I’m yearning for the day when I can play with a big band horn section that’s only 30 milliseconds behind the beat. Hallelujah!