Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Owning an Alembic => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: BeenDown139 on November 12, 2022, 09:38:45 AM
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now that i have my hands back and can play a bass and ride a bicycle again, i was working on a song with the ebony SII while looking at the neck on my fretless '95 5-string essence that was hanging nearby. i was struck by how thin the neck profile on the essence appears compared to how the SII feels. i love this fretless but it's like a barometer with the changing seasons. there are times when i'll pick it up to play it and the whole bass will be over a 1/2 step sharp or flat from where i left it the day before because we had a weather front move over the mile high. it's the most temperamental instrument i've ever owned in this regard, even worse than my ric 4001 that used to be my road dog in the early 80's. i'd have sent her on her way long ago but try finding a long-scale, unlined 5-string neck-thru essence (or series) fretless these days. plus when she's dialed in, she sings and plays like no other fretless i've ever owned. kinda like a wayward girlfriend. but i digress...
the other big difference is that the essence has maple pinstripe stringers in the neck, while the MK Deluxe has purpleheart and the SII has purpleheart and ebony stringers. that SII neck is the most rigid neck i've ever seen on a bass and only requires occasional tweaking. the MK Deluxe moves a little, but not to the point where i have to break out the wrenches.
so my question is: is a pinstripe neck less rigid than a neck with stringers? to the point that it would allow such dramatic changes when the humidity changes? i've tried different tension strings on it (from d'addario chrome flats to TI jazz flats) without luck so i'm getting ready to go back to low tension strings on this bass.
any thoughts, enlightenment or even some good, old-fashioned incoherent ramblings on this subject would be appreciated.
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You're also dealing with a nature building material. So who knows if the laminate would have made that particular neck a bit more ridged. Fingerboard thickness and material plays a part as well.
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I'd recommend checking the headstock end.
First, check the keys. With the strings off, find the Phillips screw in the end of the part you turn. This tightens or loosens the amount of friction (how hard/easy it is to turn). With the key off, tighten these just enough to feel slightly stiff but NOT hard to turn. Set all four to the approximate same feeling. Then on the face of the headstock, snug (again, just snug, NOT super tight) the nut around the shaft. You want to take the slack out of the keys, and make sure there's no binding in the nut slots that eventually releases.
I'd also check the nut slots that they are not a bit too small for the strings you're using. And it never hurts to put a little graphite, pencil lead, anything harmless to add a little ease into the slots themselves.
Wood just varies. I've had axes that once set up simply never moved in any appreciable amounts, and I have had some I chased for quite a while. After the once over around the headstock, do your setup, and the next time it feels 'out', measure the difference between what it is and the original setup, and adjust to suit. Sometimes after several go rounds it will stay put.
I can relate an experience I never anticipated. I'd bought a Squier Jazz Bass, and I was chasing it for months, it just kept adjusting itself. I sort of marked it down to new-bass-itis and thought it would level out sooner or later. After several months, I went to re-string and thought 'geez that fingerboard (laurel) looks dry. I got out the F1 Fingerboard Oil . . . . it took two coats and drank it up like a sailor! The third coat finally left enough to wipe off.
After that, it settled right down, and it's been normal ever since. That was a new one on me.
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I would believe the neck recipe and age of the instrument is the key factor. I have to adjust my 90's and later Alembics several times a year. My ebony lam ones less so and my 80's and wide neck w/ deluxe purple heart lams almost never.
As the Wickershams have said on numerous occasions, wood takes a long time to forget it is a tree. Hence all the roasting going on in the industry. I imagine my new build will behave in similar fashion. Best of luck on your baby settling down for you.
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Yes - the Purpleheart is stiffer than the Maple. It's nice to have the little pinstripes for the extra glue joints (read extra strength). And yes, some piece of wood wind up being more finicky. It's a tradeoff as usual - it may be that reactive wood is what sounds so sweet to your ears. If the neck is a thin carve, that will also make it more barometric. My bass is a chunk master in the neck department and I'm not sure I've ever adjusted the truss rod. Then again, I don't strive for exceedingly low action either, so that's another factor.
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I've had two Alembics that didn't move, two that moved seasonally, another one I'm waiting to see. That '81 Distillate had a neck of iron; it never moved. I can remember adjusting my Persuader twice, when I switched strings. My Custom still thought its neck was a tree for a couple years, even with three purpleheart laminates in it, required constant adjustment, then slowly she settled down. I have found that Dave's old '77 Series I and the fretless Distillate are happiest in dry months when left in the case with a humidifier box... they are both completely stable for playing, but if left out in a dry environment for more than a couple days, better get the wrench handy. Easier to just put them back to bed. I haven't had the Darling out since Summer... she's cased up with the other guitars I can't play. It'll be interesting to see how the vermilion layer reacts to Virginia Winter. I have a feeling that the '80 Series I (currently in California, on sabbatical) will be as solid as the first Distillate... probably done all the moving it's going to do, and the necks are almost identical.
I have an all-mahogany Gibson that's neck turns into a ski in dry. In 40 years of working on guitars, I've never seen one move that much. Again, the little plastic box with a sponge wins the day.
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Thanks everybody for your input!
BigRedBass, fivestringdan: I checked the headstock and everything appears solid. The fact that all of the strings go outta tune by about the same amount leads me to believe the fingerboard is expanding and contracting way more than the neck material. kinda like a bimetal strip in an old-timey thermal cutout. it is a very healthy, thick (~1/4") strip of ebony. maybe no frets makes it more susceptable to expansion and contraction? i've owned probably 14 alembics over the years, this is the only one that gets this wonky. my last fretless alembic was a '76 long-scale, small body series I. as i recall, the fingerboard ebony was much thinner than my essence, maybe less than 3/16" thick. the truss rod in that bass was kinda hinky, but the fingerboard never got wonky like this one. i miss that bass :-(
mica: i don't know how to measure a neck profile, i don't have a caliper at the house but i laid the neck strings down on a table and got ~1.65" from the top of the fingerboard to the crown of the neck around the 12th position. this neck feels very thin (not that i'm complaining). but i think it has a thicker profile than my 2018 MK deluxe. here's a shot of all 3 together. the SII neck is definitely chunkier (also slightly narrower) than the other two. the stringers are closer to the centerline of the neck. don't know if this makes any difference, but that is one stiff neck! picture attached below.
it's almost time for the bass string elves to make their annual visit to castle BeenDown. it's got d'addario chromes on it now. they sound OK but i really don't like the tension and how far i had to crank the truss rods to get the neck straight. i'm probably gonna wish for set of pyramid flats this year, last years dead B string fiasco notwithstanding. i've been a pretty good boy this year. my P.O. even said so!
<edit> i lemon oil all the fingerboards on a regular basis, don't wanna have a dry fingerboard. besides, nothing like the look and smell of a freshly lemon-oiled alembic ebony fingerboard!
i like low action on this bass, storing it in a controlled environment isn't a good option so i'm just gonna live with it. unless, of course, something better comes along. hasn't happened yet. not holding my breath.
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I use Thomastik Infield flats on all my fretless basses. They also have much lower tension than Chromes. Fretted basses I use Ernie Ball Cobalt flats when desired. They "feel" like they have less tension than Chromes. I can also get the neck dead flat on my Orion 6 fretless with Thomastiks without a lot of cranking the rods. But, they may just be this bass.
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Tim, you might want to try Labella low tension flats. I’ve switched over to them from Pyramids on all my basses. Less tension than Pyramids but they don’t feel loose, and about half the price.
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I've found my fretless Orion to be more sensitive to changes in the weather than my other basses. I attributed it to the fact that to get the mwah I am dealing with a straighter neck and strings closer to the fretboard. As a result of the tighter tolerances it takes less of a swing in humidity to throw everything off.
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. As a result of the tighter tolerances it takes less of a swing in humidity to throw everything off.
well, there is that factor. the fretted basses have a relatively wide tolerence zone - i can feel that the action's gotten a little flaky but it's still pretty playable and i'm not giving a recital on it at this particular time so maybe it'll drift back into spec or i'll jack with it later or yadda yadda yadda.
with the fretless it's a very fine line between mwahhhh and THONK! i'm not schooled much in instrument building but my guess is other fretless stringed instruments probably do the same thing. which is probably while their owners treat 'em like they're babies. or small yappy dogs who can't go out in the cold.
while i like my fretted bass strings to put up a fight, my left hand is tired of fighting the high tension strings on this fretless. i really like TI jazz flats on this bass, but i think i'm gonna roll with the pyramid gold flats this time, see what happens.
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while i like my fretted bass strings to put up a fight, my left hand is tired of fighting the high tension strings on this fretless. i really like TI jazz flats on this bass, but i think i'm gonna roll with the pyramid gold flats this time, see what happens.
I would love to hear what you think of the Pyramid flats vs the TI flats.
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I would love to hear what you think of the Pyramid flats vs the TI flats.
fwiw killing a coupla birds with this stone. i'm still re-habbing my right hand from trigger finger surgery. it's a lot rougher this time around for some reason so i'm doing a lot of stretching and limiting my playing to about 45 minutes a day while i get to the point where my playing is pain free and i'm not missing notes. not there yet. i'm waiting for my new string order to arrive. so this morning i put on a fresh buzz, went for a soak and a stretch (btw stretching in a hot tub comes highly recommended from the old geezer. gonna do again after this post), got dressed and worked the fretless out for a while.
this is what it sounds like with the d'addarios on it. they're pretty beat from a summer of abuse at the hands of the old guy. i like my fretless strings a little more bendy than these as i like to bend notes with my left hand. i'm doing an exercise going across the fingerboard, getting the right hand to dance from B to G and back again without stumbling. pan biased a little toward the bridge PU.
after the string change and setup, i'll do this exercise again. maybe see some improvement. or not.
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The bass sounds fantastic to me, so does your playing. Sounds like your are recovering well from surgery. Thank you for posting the video.
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thank you sir, you're way too kind. pretty obvious i'm still struggling when i push it. if i dial it back a little i do a lot better. right fingers are kinda sore from that little stunt. arrrgh!
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here we are freshly strung with pyramid gold flats, set up and our fingerboard thouroughly lemon-oiled. limiting my playing to 45 minutes a day, 15 minutes on each bass, lots of stretching and range-of-motion work in-between.
pretty much the same exercise as before. got the fridge humming away in the kitchen for added effect. otherwise it's straight from the bass to the amps, tablet in selfie mode and let her rip, 'tater chip. feels like less tension than the chromes, definitely more than the TIs. got the neck tweaked up and the action settled right in. i like the way the D and G sing with these. so we'll hang out for a while. work out our issues.
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The D and G do sound great! Nice balance of mwah and sustain.
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B-string okay this time?
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Thank you for posting both videos! Both sets of strings sound good. That's a tough choice.
Wish you continued physical healing.
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it's been a little slow around here, i gotta take a coupla days off from my summer construction projects before they kill me plus it's raining again today in the mile high, so the opportunity came up to close the circle on this one.
the band crapped out, so i restrung the mighty essence with TI flats a coupla days ago. of course, that required a complete re-setup. i couldn't believe how tight the truss rods were cranked down for those pryamids. still gotta set the intonation and dial it in but i think the crux of the biscuit here is that TI flats are the only strings i'm ever using again on this bass. they give this instrument the best feel, tension and sound that pleases my taste, so there ya have it. ymmv, imho, etc. & so forth
haven't played this bass in a while while me and the A-bass bond. they're both set up with the same strings. this bass has that freeway-width fingerboard and string spacing. it almost feels klunky after playing the A-bass. it doesn't have near the punch and depth of the A-bass. but the A-bass doesn't have a B-string. so it's a stalemate.
a little improv finger warm-up that goes up and down and across and back. kinda like my lifestyle these days...
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Was a tad concerned at the title… thanks for having clothes on!
Nice even response across all the strings.