Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Dreaming... for now => Topic started by: Triassic_Ash on November 02, 2022, 11:51:45 AM
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Hello there,
I've recently decided to bite the proverbial bullet and order an Alembic bass. I'v decided on a signature electronics 34" scale 5 string bass. My question is in regards to body shape. I love the standard omega cut, however, I am aware of the balance and ergonomic issues of these bass. My question is to anyone who owns a 34" 5 string standard Alembic, how severe are the balance and reach issues for you?
P.S. Susan and Mica at Alembic have heavily suggested the Balance K body, and don't get me wrong it's a great body shape. I'm just not as into it as the standard, however, at the end of the day I am willing to sacrifice looks for playability if the difference is drastic enough.
For what it's worth I am 6'1" with long arms and wear my bass higher up on my torso lower chest.
Thanks Everyone
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This is my Signature custom. I went with the heart omega but the standard omega would also work well with this body shape. More importantly, I decided to go with a medium scale and 3/4 body along with a tummy cut. I have a couple of Series I standard points and this body (and neck) is far easier to play. Plus, I have no problem at all with neck drop and tend to wear my instrument physically high on my body as you do.
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Thank you, and that is a beautiful bass. I hear neck dive is more of an issue with the 5+ string instruments though.
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I have a Custom 5-string with a variation of Anniversary Omega body, it's 32" scale, and most players would consider it neck-heavy. A 34" scale Omega-cut would definitely be more off-balance.
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=22859.0
I would take Mica & Susan's advice, and go for the Bal-K... you'll thank them later. (and that's coming from a vintage Alembic freak... ask Mica.)
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Thank you so much for your input.
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Hi Ashton... I have two five-strings, a 1978 Series I with a 32" scale, small body, fan headstock, and no omega cut (as seen in my avatar) and a 34" scale Balance K Series II with a crown headstock and Omega cut that was made six years ago. There are a number of ergonomic issues with the small body bass. It is definitely neck-heavy and the body also has a forward lean. To combat both I have to kind of lock the body of the bass to my body using my forearm when playing it. I have owned this bass since around 1984 and didn't play it for years because of the narrow neck, ergonomics and the fact that I prefer long scale basses due to having large hands. The Balance K Series bass balances perfectly and is much more enjoyable to play. I wanted a second Alembic for a long time but never felt comfortable with the old body styles. To me the Balance K body maintains a lot of the lines and vibe of the "standard" body shape of the 70s while bringing it into the present design wise and ergonomically.
You need to be comfortable with the looks of the bass you are buying, it is an expensive investment, but you also need to feel comfortable playing it. One thing though, I am not sure I have seen many Alembic players who wear their bass up high and since I do not it is hard to tell if the Balance K shape would be comfortable worn up high. Maybe someone else will chime in. You don't mention where you live in the USA but there may be a member nearby who would let you try their Balance K bass before you order. You are right about the five-string necks being heavier than the fours, Mica has mentioned that the majority of the weight of any Alembic bass is in the neck, something to think about when choosing a body shape and scale length. Good luck with your decision... looking forward to seeing what you end up with.
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The Balance K is the new classic shape. The old classsic shape is great, but if you go beyond 4 strings, the ergonomics will probably challenge you. The good tthing is it doesn't matter for the build quality.
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Ashton, Stephen speaks the truth. You have entered an anomaly of an on-line community. The members here exhibit genuine camaraderie and are always willing to help out. Let us know what major city you live near and see if anyone has a K near you.
I am an absolute sucker for any omega cut (heart, stinger, standard). My understanding is that a wide strap helps a lot with neck dive.
Good luck and welcome to the camp! And as Chalie says, “keep it low and stay outta treble”.
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Susan and Mica are making a great suggestion. I have a Balance K heart Omega and love it (32" scale). If you want to spend a little more I would suggest checking out the Bird of Prey shape in a 32" scale. I love mine and it has been my main fretted bass for years. Coming from a very well balanced Carl Thompson, it was an easy transition. The horn reaches all the way up to 12th fret on a 32" scale. With a wide strap and ultralight tuners I think you would be pleased. Best wishes on whatever you choose.
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On the other hand, I have a 34 six string Europa with a cone headstock and have no problems with neck drop though it’s a challenge to play given the neck width.
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Or a 32” Dragon Wing body shape, that would be cool :)
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Thank you all so much for the input. I had a feeling it was going to be hubris to go against the designers of these instruments, but I felt like it was worth my while to hear from Alembic players. Balanced K it is! Now I need some tips on how to cut down on weight ;) Should I make another post for that?
P.S. I am located in the San Diego area for all those asking
Best,
Ash
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Not hubris at all. Susan and Mica understand that folks don't have an opportunity to try out a lot of body styles before making a purchase and that a lot of money is on the line. The last thing they want is for a customer to be unhappy with an instrument. That being said they have both been at this for many years and have seen what work and doesn't work so it is good idea to listen to their advice.
For balance I would say the Balance K body or the Europa/Orion body styles. I primarily play short scale small body basses and a 4 string fretless Orion. I also own a 5 string fretted Orion though it doesn't see much playing time. As has been stated the small body does not balance the same as longer upper horn double cutaway bodies do. They naturally sit closer to 3 o'clock than 1 o'clock. I play them up higher and use a wider leather strap to keep the bass closer to 1 o'clock and find it quite comfortable. The Orion basses naturally sit at the 1 o'clock position so I play then a bit lower on my body (though still higher than most players). In any event I think you will like the Balance K body.
As to weight the biggest factor will be wood selections. For the most part the neck woods will have the biggest effect on how the bass sounds. The body woods and to a lesser degree top/back woods will also affect the tone. Even something like the Western Flame Maple in my Series 1 sounds slightly different than the Eastern Maple used in the more common maple/purple heart neck recipe with my neck being a bit more subdued on the highs. Heavier woods like ebony will bring out the fundamental more but add weight. Mahogany will provide a warmer more rounded tone and weigh less. The Wood Samples page has pictures and if you click on the section headers you will be taken to a page that describes the characteristics of the various woods and their combinations. If you have questions the experts Susan and Mica can always provide more detail or ask away here as many of us have more than Alembic and wood combination.
The Wood Samples page can be found here: http://www.alembic.com/info/woodsamples.html (http://www.alembic.com/info/woodsamples.html)
Edit: Fix typos.
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Agree wood choice is a good way to shave off weight also getting continuous wood backplates instead of brass.
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Thanks guys for all the words of wisdom and support. I have a meeting with my dealer Will Gunn Tuesday and I'm gonna discuss wood options to bring the weight down. I understand that the majority of the weight is in the neck, and I know that maple is a heavier wood, but I'm not in love with mahogany. Do you guys have any suggestions for wood combos that include maple that will shed some weight? Currently I just have my suggested build with the standard 7 piece maple purpleheart 5 string neck. Would a strip of vermilion lighten the neck by any chance?
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Thanks guys for all the words of wisdom and support. I have a meeting with my dealer Will Gunn Tuesday and I'm gonna discuss wood options to bring the weight down. I understand that the majority of the weight is in the neck, and I know that maple is a heavier wood, but I'm not in love with mahogany. Do you guys have any suggestions for wood combos that include maple that will shed some weight? Currently I just have my suggested build with the standard 7 piece maple purpleheart 5 string neck. Would a strip of vermilion lighten the neck by any chance?
Pretty sure vermillion is also a heavy wood. Choice of neck wood is going to affect the way the bass sounds not just influence the weight. Either Will or Susan and Mica could advise you about tonal response from different neck wood combinations.
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I'm not sure how much weight you are going to save based on wood choice. If you are looking for weight reduction, have you considered a chambered body?
Bill, tgo
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I had a 34" Spoiler Five in a Series-shaped body with Crown headstock. We're about the same size (I wear a 44 long sportcoat), and believe me, playing down at the nut was a reach, even for me.
If you look at most Alembics, the bridge is not always against the bottom rim of the body, particularly on Series shaped instruments, so this pushes the neck 'out' of the body further than most basses. The great news is playing right up to the 24th fret, certainly above the 12th fret, is effortless, as it's just out in midair relative to most axes. The not-so-good news is this pushed the center of gravity down the neck, and with the short wings on that shape, it will tend to be neck forward. Not just awful like some Thunderbirds, but you will learn to keep your left forearm across the top rim. Can't repeal geometry.
You can't deal with a better man than Will Gunn. Encyclopedic in his Alembic knowledge, and as honest as the day is long, EXACTLY the kind of guy you want to deal with when spending big money. Bought two of them from him. The Best.
All basses are compromises somewhere. You just have to decide what you can and can't live with. For me, the upper access reach was magic, and I learned to keep an arm on the body. Done deal. On the other hand, the various Balance shapes bring the ergonomics into the current days. You decide.