Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: glocke on March 27, 2022, 01:32:30 PM
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I know of an F1X for sale locally and believe I could get it for a good price. Its in great condition.
Here's the catch, while I've always WANTED an F1x (really always wanted an F2B but I don't think I'll ever find one) I think Im passed the stage where I'd actually use it. Currently Im using a Mesa TT800 and am pleased with that..it sounds great, and is lightweight.
Really torn on this...I also own 3 or 4 other boutique heads (Demeter and Broughton) that I just use in the living room setup or might bring out to a studio jam session...
talk me into or out of this thing.
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Gregory, I love mine and use it with a power amp in a rack case unless I need to go light with a small cab and small head, which I have as a backup. If you can get one for a good price, you can try it out to see what you think. I would think that you could sell it pretty easily if you find that you won’t use it. That’s my two cents. :)
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Gregory, I love mine and use it with a power amp in a rack case unless I need to go light with a small cab and small head, which I have as a backup. If you can get one for a good price, you can try it out to see what you think. I would think that you could sell it pretty easily if you find that you won’t use it. That’s my two cents. :)
yeah, thats sort of what I was thinking. I have the Demeter power amp here..Mini800D I think it is, but from everything I've read, the F2B is really the one I'd want, that said my understand is that the tonal differences between the two are minimal.
I also have a Demter VTB201s here that hasn't been used in ages but sounds great. Will I notice a huge difference between that and the F1x?
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I haven’t used the vtb201s, so I can’t make the comparison.
I have a F-1X and F-2B and I don’t see a whole lot of tonal difference between them, I can EQ the same tone from either one.
For comparison, I have just two set ups that I use: power amp with F-1X or F-2B (sometimes I’ll add an SF-2), or a Walter Woods amp for small and light, and I find that those cover my needs.
It sounds like you already have a lot of amps/preamps, so maybe think about whether you really need another, or are your needs covered with what you already have. Tough choice since Alembic stuff is so great, but something to consider.
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Have you ever heard anyone say they regretted getting an F-1X?
If it’s reasonably priced, you can always sell it without loss. :D
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F2-B's are hard to find. I think it sounds like that itch needs to be scratched. If you didn't take to it i really doubt you would have problems selling it on as they are pretty rare on the used market.
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I've had 2 F1X's and 2 SF2's. The tones were wonderful with a PLX 3200 and Epifani Cabs. I sold them when I realized that my amazing Riggs were not being mixed faithfully by the engineers in the clubs in New York and New Jersey. Out front the eq of a P bass would reach the audience.
That said, I would recommend them to anyone who is after a versitile and pure sound. The perfect tone to our instruments.As others have said you have nothing to lose.
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I've had 2 F1X's and 2 SF2's. The tones were wonderful with a PLX 3200 and Epifani Cabs. I sold them when I realized that my amazing Riggs were not being mixed faithfully by the engineers in the clubs in New York and New Jersey. Out front the eq of a P bass would reach the audience.
That doesn't sound like a reason to sell the F1-X, it sounds like a reason to hire a better soundman.
Peter (who has _always_ run the bass through a channel with the EQ flat - unless it _was_ a P-Bass......)
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I prefer the F2B and it's always in my signal chain for recording bass. You can also tweak with it a lot by trying out various 12AX7 and other tubes (12AT7, etc).
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I thought the consensus was that tube rolling with the F2-B yielded negligible changes? I think someone posted sound clips here a while back.
I have owned two different F2-Bs. I really like them and would never sell the one I have but if I was buying an Alembic preamp to gig with I would probably go with the F1X. Reasons are the built in D.I., effects loop and to a lesser extent bass boost, all missing from the F2-B. In order to use the F2-B in stereo mode on a gig I would need a stereo D.I. and I have yet to find using my SF-2 with the F2-B to work as well as patching it into an effects loop. Naturally your mileage will vary depending on what you want to use the preamp for and of course they are both excellent preamps.
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Of course there is always the option of two F1Xs paired with an SF-2. IMHO this is the best set-up. Given what I haul, the addition of a 2nd F1X is negligible as far as weight is concerned. I know a while back someone here did a direct comparison of the F1X and F2-B and suggested that the latter had a somewhat "warmer" tone but the differences were subtle.
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Tube rolling does make tone changes, just use interesting tubes! Especially vintage ones. Some do not fit in the casing though.
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If it's a really clean example for a good price, buy it. They do nothing but appreciate, and if you can ste . . . ., oops, I meant buy it at a good deal, you'll own it for free. Do your homework first for what the market is for them price-wise.
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I've got a hookup on an F2B and will probably go that route.
Its really not clear to me though how I'd use this live..I know a DI box will be involved, but where in my signal chain would it go. I use an effects board so that complicates things a little bit I guess.
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I've got a hookup on an F2B and will probably go that route.
Its really not clear to me though how I'd use this live..I know a DI box will be involved, but where in my signal chain would it go. I use an effects board so that complicates things a little bit I guess.
Speaking as a soundman, I'd put the DI just before the power amp, so as to get same signal to my board that your amp is getting (and I'd run your channel EQ flat).
Peter
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It depends on what you want to send to FOH.
The few times I got to use mine live and wanted to send a post-EQ signal, I used all 3 outputs. A to one power amp, B to another, and M (the mono) to the DI. RonW confirmed to me that the only downside is that once you plug into the M output, there is some minor crosstalk between the other two. Any that occurred, was not noticeable to me.
If the FOH wanted pre-EQ signal, I ran the auxiliary DS-5R outputs to a Radial JDI (merged inputs to mono out).
Of all the pre-amps I've tried, it still stands alone as the best tone. ;-)
C-Ya..............wayne
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I've got a hookup on an F2B and will probably go that route.
Its really not clear to me though how I'd use this live..I know a DI box will be involved, but where in my signal chain would it go. I use an effects board so that complicates things a little bit I guess.
Speaking as a soundman, I'd put the DI just before the power amp, so as to get same signal to my board that your amp is getting (and I'd run your channel EQ flat).
Peter
When I run sound if I can only have one signal I want the opposite and to get my signal pre EQ so I have the full spectrum to work with. There are multiple reasons for this. First is if the bass player has mud then all I have to work with is mud but it won't be the bass player blamed for that situation instead it will be me. There is also the case of what sounds good on stage might might not sound good once the bass is sitting in the mix out front. The last one off the top of my head is going post EQ means every time the bass player changes settings on their amp I will have to compensate. That isn't too bad if they make a small adjustment here or there but you have your tweakers who will spend the whole night trying to find their tone and screwing up the rest of the mix.
My recommendation is if you can't get both a pre and post EQ is to go pre EQ between your effects and F2B input.
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Good discussion. And I should recuse myself because I prefer the straight-up full-spectrum DI tone of my basses, both for live FOH and recording. In fact, for a bass amp I prefer a full range monitor. So take anything I add here with a grain of that salt...
I think guitar (and bass) amp tone controls were always meant to be used to compensate for the inefficiencies of guitar and bass speakers. If I want to get more high and low end out of my little 12" EVM Thiele cabinets (which legally only deliver 80-7kHz) I need to gas the bass and treble controls on my Walter Woods amp. If I sent that "post EQ" signal to the clubs PA, which has a much wider and flatter frequency response, it's going to be a pretty nasty tone.
I have the feeling that if you guys with these great preamps and filters were to go out in front of the PA and set your tone controls based on what you hear out there, it might be quite different from the settings you use for your onstage amp. And it would probably change for every different room and PA where you tried that.
Just my spin...
Jimmy J
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Good discussion. And I should recuse myself because I prefer the straight-up full-spectrum DI tone of my basses, both for live FOH and recording. In fact, for a bass amp I prefer a full range monitor. So take anything I add here with a grain of that salt...
I think guitar (and bass) amp tone controls were always meant to be used to compensate for the inefficiencies of guitar and bass speakers. If I want to get more high and low end out of my little 12" EVM Thiele cabinets (which legally only deliver 80-7kHz) I need to gas the bass and treble controls on my Walter Woods amp. If I sent that "post EQ" signal to the clubs PA, which has a much wider and flatter frequency response, it's going to be a pretty nasty tone.
I have the feeling that if you guys with these great preamps and filters were to go out in front of the PA and set your tone controls based on what you hear out there, it might be quite different from the settings you use for your onstage amp. And it would probably change for every different room and PA where you tried that.
Just my spin...
Jimmy J
One band I worked for, the bassist ran a tri-amped rack system; DI right off the instrument, no effects. They got a new drummer, who had a pair of single-18" scoops - which, of course, we stuck into the PA. The first night with that set-up, said bassist stepped out onto the dance floor: Did a speakers>me>speakers triple take, kicked a chair in front of the stack, and finished the set sitting there (and smiling - big). At the break he came over & kissed me (we're both straight), and only used one amp & a wedge as his rig for the rest of my time with that band.
He also hired me for 2 other bands.
Peter
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I guess in my case it’s a little different in that more recently I tend to play (at least did pre-COVID) small jazz rooms with no PA and my amp and cab are my sound, so being able to adjust things with a nice preamp or filter helps.
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Rob,
Of course when playing a smaller room where you ARE the entire bass sound then you need to tweak it to have an inspirational tone. I even cheat at the Baked Potato (legal capacity 60 people) and run through the PA at a level that almost matches my onstage amp. Just part of my weirdness...
And like Peter's story, there was a moment in my early time with JT that I had a killer rig made up of two Meyer Sound UPA-1A two-way speakers and a USW-1 double 15" sub controlled by a Bagend ELF-1, tri-amped stereo, no other preamps or EQ just line level out of the Series bass pickups. And it was a GLORIOUS sound. But I soon realized I was making the crew drag around and set up all that gear and I was literally the only one in the room who could hear it. Thank goodness in-ear monitors came along. (I'm pretty sure the crew would agree.)
Jimmy J
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Interesting Jimmy, I just looked them up and those weigh in at 67lbs and 205lbs with case. John Prock has been encouraging me to get Meyer powered cabs for my bass rig ever since I got my Series II bass. However, when i contacted the dealer in the UK, the rig he suggested was pretty close to the list price of a series bass. Added to that I'd never get them in my car, and like you say, i'd most likely be the only person in the venue hearing them. I'm happy with my barefaced cabs. :-)
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John showed me his Meyer rig when I was in Monterey recently. Sounded amazing, as expected, and relatively light/compact for Meyer gear. He has a small portable lift to get it into his vehicle, pretty sure the rig stays on the base of the lift when in use. If I remember correctly it would cost about $22-23,000. Seems like overkill now that there are better choices for bass gear available but no denying that it would be a lot of fun to gig with.
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I have to say, Jimmy, that my story differs from yours slightly, in that I was not working for JT; that was a bar band, and not the most successful I worked with by far (heck, not even the most successful one I worked with for that bassist); the rooms we were playing*, I assure you everyone heard his rig! But it gave him the best sound he could get from a rig, while I (and the 4-way, based-on-18s PA) gave him what he was trying for.........
*A fun aside: That band once played a bowling league banquet in the former home of Alvah C. Roebuck; yes, as in "Sears &...". The tables were set up in his bedroom & the band was in his dressing room. Yeah, a whole bowling league, at banquet tables in his bedroom!
[size=78%]Peter[/size]