Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: edwardofhuncote on February 19, 2022, 09:50:18 AM
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I'm wondering what the more guitar-oriented folk here think about scale lengths on their instruments. Doesn't have to be an Alembic, but I'm especially interested in the scales of Alembic guitars.
In what ways does the scale length affect your playing?
How much does it matter to you?
Can you switch between different scales without issue?
Can you set up two or more guitars of varying scale lengths so they feel somewhat alike?
Logically, my brain is telling me, Greg, just quit worrying about it and play the stupid guitar, but my hands tell me the shorter of two more common scale lengths feels better. Can't describe it, just feels right. The longer scale is more difficult to play and make it do what I want. It can't be just my imagination. I bet it's easier for someone else though, the other way around.
(Just so we're talking about the same thing, I'm comparing 24.75" to 25.5... of course I realize there are more, say Martin at 24.9" or PRS at 25.0")
*and anyone who wants really meltdown their warpdrive core, go read up on the 24.625" scale. [splutter] If I wasn't afraid Mica would put out a hit on me, I'd spec my guitar for it... jus' beecuz...
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I don't notice much disparity with various scale lengths. I set up my guitars myself and adjust them to feel pretty much the same as possible.
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I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I couldn't tell you scale length on any of my instruments (except the harmonica, kazoo, and nose flute, of course).
I do know that they feel different - but I'm not sure any feel easier. Well, beyond that the 12 has twice the tension, and the resonator is set up for slide, and the classical has nut about a mile wide, and..........
Peter (who will now have to pullout a tape the next time he goes upstairs where they are)
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I find that each instrument affects how you play. Strat like ones inspire me to bite in more and be aggressive . The 24 fret Mockingbird I have plays different than the Les Pauls, and the Pertucci 7 is also different. I find that ebony boards sound better to me than rosewood and I enjoy graphite necks to wood ones. Something else that influences the playing is Sustainer pickups. I have 4 guitars equipped eith them. A Steinberger, Schecter Tele deluxe, Japanese Strat and Kramer Sambora, all graphite necked. Each one behaves differently in how the sustain colors the sound, the strength and harmonic. So how you play to get the desired effects from the unit directs your choices. So 21 , 24 frets, Ebony, rosewood, graphite, trem or hardtail, sustainer or no, Active or passive pups all have nuances that affect my approach to each instrument. That also holds true for the basses as well. But alas no sustainers on the basses. I did hear Peter Steele had them installed on his Washburns.
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I have never considered the scale length of any guitar i have bought, nor could i tell you without checking the scale of any of mine. I just go with how it feels to play. The neck width and profile is more important to me.
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I’m with Jazzy on this one. I have both medium scale and Fender scale Alembics (‘76 Series I MSG, and a Further), as well as several others of each scale. (Strat, Tele, Les Paul, 335). I also played a PRS that had a 25” scale for a few years until I found an Electrum at the guitar show and ... well you all know how it is ... enthusiastically jumped on the Alembic bandwagon and have been aboard ever since. Each guitar is its own entity. Kind of like driving different cars. I notice neck carve and width far more than scale length.
Bill, tgo
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I read the title and thought it would be a question about modes :o
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Interesting, and a bit surprising replies. I would have thought guitar players thought about these things more, but as a bass player, I have to admit, I really don't care what the scale length of the bass is I happen to be playing. My Alembics happen to be 32", but I have no problem with the extremes of 35", or a 30.5", or a 42" upright for that matter. It's just about adjusting my posture for the job. That 34" scale Hyak fretless is a wrestling match with gravity, but worth it.
Hmmm. Neck profiles. I know more about what I don't like. No teeny-tiny slender necks. I tend to like the wider necks. Probably a product of having played Martin guitars with 1-3/4" nut width for years. I tend to gravitate to guitars with larger necks. I like how the LP's taper.
I agree about the guitars all being their own entity... man, they sure are. Every single one is an individual with its own attributes. I had accepted that beforehand, but I'm trying to zero-in on what makes me like this or that about one or the other of them, and one commonality I keep landing on is a weird preference for a shorter scale. Just trying to understand why. I've tried string gauge changes, even mixing string gauges within sets to fine-tweak tension, action adjustments to compensate for it. My guitars all play great, no complaints, and I can make them so if they don't. Seems like no matter what though, this group is easier to play.
Maybe it's simply the lack of experience. I'm getting there.
Thanks for the insight fellas... the next experiment is underway.
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I read the title and thought it would be a question about modes :o
Have at it, anybody who wants... not qualified to comment here.
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I prefer the longer scale length necks on 6 strings. Prefer the necks to be on the wide side, too. Easier to play cleanly even with fat fingers.
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I will say that I don't like guitar necks with a sharp edge at the fretboard sides, like Fender did on some in the 1970's. I also am not crazy about the Gibson 'fretless wonders' I have played, as the frets are so low it takes a lot of getting used to. I also had a friend back in the 60's who had a Hagstrom III where the action was able to be set too low for my taste due to the amazing necks they used to have.
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Add me to the list of people that never paid much attention to scale length of my guitars or basses. Either I like the instrument when I try it or I don't. But over time I realized that I do have a preference for long scale instruments and now would not buy another bass or guitar with a shorter scale. I love playing my Strat, Martins, and other guitars with a longer scale and over time have come to feel really uncomfortable with the guitars I own with shorter, what I refer to as Gibson Les Paul, scale length. I have larger hands and the lower registers of short scale guitars and the medium scale basses I have owned feel good to me but the upper registers always feel cramped and uncomfortable. I would not feel comfortable playing a short scale bass, that I am certain of. Over time I have also grown fond of wider necks for both guitar and bass.
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I read the title and thought it would be a question about modes :o
That was my first thought, too.
Peter
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....one commonality I keep landing on is a weird preference for a shorter scale. Just trying to understand why.
The same strings on a shorter scale require lower tension to come to pitch; mayhap that's where your preference comes from.
Peter
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....one commonality I keep landing on is a weird preference for a shorter scale. Just trying to understand why.
The same strings on a shorter scale require lower tension to come to pitch; mayhap that's where your preference comes from.
Peter
True statement, and I kinda' knew that from past acoustic guitar experience, but for some reason I underestimated the effect of this on electrics. I just had one gauge of electric guitar strings in the shop, and a bunch of 'em, so that's what I was using for all the guitars. They felt floppy on the Gibsons, so I switched from 10's to 11's, and then customized a bit further in an experiment. Then the light went on and suddenly it just started feeling right, and so help me I can't make the longer scale guitars act the same way.
And to Stephen's point... maybe that's some of it too. I don't have particularly large hands, and I'm kinda' average build at five-eleven, and a buck-sixty before supper. Could be they simply fit me better. I had a Gibson 'Nick Lucas' Signature one time... beautiful guitar, like an extra-deep body L-00. Maple sides and back, spruce top, style 2 pearl inlay, gold on everything. That thing sounded amazing and played like a dream, but I couldn't reach around it. My ribs hurt and my arm went to sleep trying. Swapped it for something. I forget what now.
If anyone wants to wade out into the deep end, here's where I ended up: https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/24-625-scale-or-24-562-scale.171960/ (https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/24-625-scale-or-24-562-scale.171960/)
And there's plenty more where that came from. I'm just trying to play awhile this afternoon.
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Just had a look on line and found my strat is supposed to be 25.5" alembic guitars are the same, my Eggle Berlin pro is 25" and my Ibanez i am guessing it is 24.75 since it is a copy of the BB King style semi acoustic guitar. The all feel different to play since no two have the same neck profiles but after having them so long I don't need to consider the difference. I just pick up and play and my hands know which guitar it is. But since I've played the strat Ultra the most I guess that would feel the most comfortable.
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I love the sound and snap of Fender length guitar scales, but when I was thirteen years old, I ended up shredding the tip of my left hand ring finger, so it's much more painful to play Strats and the like. Especially when bad weather is coming in. Bass is easier. I love the sound of short scale. Now that I'm so used to it, long scales sound kind of boingy to me.
I have a '56 Gibson ES140T which is a short scale guitar and that's very easy to play. It doesn't help that I have small hands.
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Those are very interesting guitars Edwin... don't see them here much either. I've never played one that I know of, and had only read about them enough to know it's a 3/4-size guitar from my Kalamazoo collection days. (22-3/4" scale) I did have an acoustic in that scale, sold/traded long ago.
I have logged a lot of playing time with guitars this week, playing only guitars with the 24.75" scale. As usual, I found myself gravitating toward a plain-jane Les Paul Special, a flat mahogany body with two P-90's, finished in what our buddy Joey calls "Robitussin Red". I just love that Craigslist rescue guitar. Ever play one that just has that juice? This one has it. Also had a plug-ugly headstock break. I fixed it up and touched up the cough-syrup hued lacquer and it's become a go-to.
I plan to spend this-coming week and an equal amount of time playing only 25.5" scale guitars. I want to see what happens when I just play the guitar that's there.
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Reminds me of this one.
(https://images.equipboard.com/uploads/source/image/16246/big_bob-marleys-gibson-les-paul.jpg?v=1438207496)
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I've never owned a Les Paul guitar, or any Gibson for that matter. I had the opportunity to a number of times in the past, but something just didn't click for me. They are great sounding guitars for sure. I've been playing my guitars a lot too over the past few weeks after being offered a dep gig with a friend's band who have lost both guitarists.
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I've had strats, teles, les pauls and a 335. Overall I've come to like the 24.75" scale the best so my LPJr. and my 335 are my favourite guitars at the moment, for electrics anyway. My 335 seems to put the neck just where it feels comfortable to play. I love my Martin M36 which is just a bit longer, 25.4", but the way the guitar sits on the strap puts the neck farther out to the left and makes for a harder reach for closed chords in the lower frets.
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I've had strats, teles, les pauls and a 335. Overall I've come to like the 24.75" scale the best so my LPJr. and my 335 are my favourite guitars at the moment, for electrics anyway. My 335 seems to put the neck just where it feels comfortable to play. I love my Martin M36 which is just a bit longer, 25.4", but the way the guitar sits on the strap puts the neck farther out to the left and makes for a harder reach for closed chords in the lower frets.
I've said it before and I'll no doubt say it again - the M body was Martin's best idea since X-bracing!
And I finally got around to measuring mine:
24.5" - 3
25" - 2
25.5" - 1
25.25 - 2
34" - 1
26.75" - 1
24 different scales on 36 strings, from 19.25" to 8.125" - 1
Turns out the 3 I play the most are all 24.5" - and they have radically different profiles. I'd say that lends itself to a conclusion that 24.5" is my scale of choice, especially since they are also widely divergent beasts overall; 6-string 000-size, 12-string dread (yeah - a short-scale, 14-fret D; who'da thunk it?), and a 6-string semi-hollow.
Peter
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Don't quote me on this, because my product knowledge is waaaay behind. And things change quickly.
C.F. Martin & Co. in their classic style of confusing everyone who isn't a total guitar nerd, [raises hand, sheepishly] offers two nearly identical guitars; M-body, and 0000. The key difference being scale length. M (Coz' likes the Style 36, and I agree, quite a sweet axe) comes with the same long scale as a D, 25.4". The 0000 comes with the shorter scale, 24.9".
Same thing happened with the long-scale but small body OM (Orchestra Model) and 000 back in 1933. (yeah, this has been going on for a while) Somebody decided hey, this 14 frets clear of the body is a cool idea, might even catch on... but... how 'bout a shorter scale like our 00 guitars? Nah, that's just crazy talk... nobody wants that! For a short time, they made two identical guitars stamped with different models though. (they're worth a fortune now)
Now they are both a standard. That extra half-inch of string-pull seems to make a difference whether we are aware of it or not. I kinda' wish I didn't know. Me and my OM-18 are having a spat over it. Some days... I wish it was a 000. But we got a history together.
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M (Coz' likes the Style 36, and I agree, quite a sweet axe)
For the record - I am also quite taken with the M-21-SE, M-30-JK, M-38, M-3-GM, & M-42-DB.* My dream-and-always-be-a-dream custom Martin would start with an M-45 (which, of course, they have never made).
*For inquiring minds, the last 2 letters stand for Steve Earle, Jorma Kaukonen, George Martin (no kin), and David Bromberg, respectively. Bromberg invented the size; the M body is copied from an old Martin F-7 archtop he had converted to a flattop.
Peter
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[sigh]
Well, after a good deal of experimentation, practice, over-thinking, casting about, and having finally cycled through another dose of whatever that magic juice they shoot into my spine every so often, I have arrived at the following conclusion;
Regardless of the scale on a particular guitar, you either love it, or you learn to, or you just live with it as-is. Whatever you can't do isn't the guitar's fault.
With that being said, you darn-tootin' oughta' know what your preference is, and why. It does matter, it's just that other things matter more.
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Don't quote me on this, because my product knowledge is waaaay behind. And things change quickly.
C.F. Martin & Co. in their classic style of confusing everyone who isn't a total guitar nerd, [raises hand, sheepishly] offers two nearly identical guitars; M-body, and 0000. The key difference being scale length. M (Coz' likes the Style 36, and I agree, quite a sweet axe) comes with the same long scale as a D, 25.4". The 0000 comes with the shorter scale, 24.9".
Same thing happened with the long-scale but small body OM (Orchestra Model) and 000 back in 1933. (yeah, this has been going on for a while) Somebody decided hey, this 14 frets clear of the body is a cool idea, might even catch on... but... how 'bout a shorter scale like our 00 guitars? Nah, that's just crazy talk... nobody wants that! For a short time, they made two identical guitars stamped with different models though. (they're worth a fortune now)
Now they are both a standard. That extra half-inch of string-pull seems to make a difference whether we are aware of it or not. I kinda' wish I didn't know. Me and my OM-18 are having a spat over it. Some days... I wish it was a 000. But we got a history together.
I'm sorry, Greg - I slid right by this one in Feb. Now, OMs are, indeed, long scale, while the same body with a short scale is a 000 (but not always; there have been long 000s before; indeed, there were times in the '30s when you could buy a LS OM, a LS 000, or a SS 000 at the same time - but not for long & not many of them), but that doesn't seem to hold with their big brothers; Martin introed the size as the long-scale M-36 & M-38 - but after a while changed the nomenclature on all with that body to 0000 - still long scale. There have been Custom Shop SS versions (ordered by Gruhn, etc.) called 0000, but many - indeed, I do believe most - 0000s are LS. I disremember if I've ever seen a SS M; I don't think so. But 0000s can definitely go either way, and I think there are many more LS than SS 0000s.
Peter
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See, I warned you not to quote me. I long since quit trying to keep up with Martin specs on guitars I don't have. My one and only experience with an M-body was a Style 38 that belonged to the guitar teacher at Fret Mill Music a loooong time ago. He swore by it. Then he got into harp guitars. And steampunk. Not sure what he's doing now.
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I would love to get into harp guitars; they are the epitome of cool. Alas, I can;t even really get the hang of six strings, so it is an impossible dream.
As to steampunk, well - check these out: https://www.tonycochranguitars.com/guitars-for-sale.html
Mr. Cochran is also a cartoonist; does _Agnes_.
Peter
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As far as scale is concerned, fretboard radius also factors into the feel of a guitar. I once had a killer Washburn A-20 neck through with an almost flat fretboard that felt kinda funny, but sold it. It would have been great for slide too.
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Here he is;
Yeah, that can't be easy.
As far as scale is concerned, fretboard radius also factors into the feel of a guitar. I once had a killer Washburn A-20 neck through with an almost flat fretboard that felt kinda funny, but sold it. It would have been great for slide too.
Absolutely true. And I think it's a lot of why I don't seem to get along well with Fender guitars. Something about that fingerboard radius bugs me, especially when combined with the neck profile. I like wider, and flatter. Fenders, at least most that I have experienced, are narrower, rounder, and more arched. (it's a compound radius ain't it? I know I oughta' know...)
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Starting with their first guitars in 1948 or '49 (I have seen sources that claim each as the introduction of the original Esquires) Fender used a 7.25" radius. In the '80s they went to 9.5", which remains their standard. 9.5" remains their most common radius, used on about 66% of their current instruments, followed by 7.25"(over 30%), though a dozen or so models are 12", and one sub-species of Tele is at 15.75". There are about 36 sub-models with compound radii; these vary between 7.25"-12", 9.5"-14", and 12'-16".
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I started on a '66 Tele, so 7.25" on a medium-shallow C profile just feels like home to me - but shorter-scale things like Gibsons & Epiphones, oddly enough, the flatter 'board the better, and I want a shallow D.
Of course, all that is electrics; even though I am mostly an acoustic player, I have no known preference betwixt the common 16", 14", & 12", but do prefer a little more of a handful.
Peter