Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Community => Gatherings => Topic started by: Woolimwoo on December 19, 2021, 07:31:23 AM
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I recently bought and custom painted 2003 alembic excel in black. Everything is perfect, except one thing. Its fretboard material is pau ferro! I like tone and color of ebony fretboard's sound, so I think of changing fretboard material for pau ferro to ebony. Do you guys have any oppinion or experience it?
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Well hello Woolimwoo!
Congrats on your new (to you) Alembic and welcome to the club! I imagine you could swap the fretboard, but it may not be the most economical solution. I wouldn’t let anyone other than Alembic perform such invasive surgery on any of my Alembics and, I strongly suspect, it wouldn’t be cheap and it would take a long time. You might want to consider looking for another Alembic with a fretboard you like and then selling this one. It will cost you significantly less in the long run, and you’ll always have an Alembic in your hands throughout the process, as opposed to being without your bass for several months.
Bill, the guitar one
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Hey Woolimwoo,
Welcome to the forum and congrats on your new axe. We like pics in here so post some if you get the chance.
Regarding the fingerboard, anything is possible if you're willing to spend the time and money. But from what I understand about different fingerboard woods (which admittedly isn't much), pau ferro is somewhere between rosewood and ebony in hardness, feel, and probably sound. It may make more difference on a fretless bass, but I'm not sure switching to ebony would make THAT much difference to the sound or feel, especially if it's a fretted instrument. The biggest change would be how it looks so if that's what's bugging you, then yeah.
Other more knowledgeable folks in here may have more to say on the subject.
Jimmy J
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Welcome and congrats!
As others have mentioned, pau ferro may provide a little more natural growl for fretless basses, and is a beautiful wood too! Here is a link to the Alembic woods page with some comments on differences between ebony and pau ferro….
http://www.alembic.com/info/wood_fingerboards.html
Enjoy your new bass!! :)
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I have 2 custom basses with Pau Ferro boards. They both sound pretty good. I believe there is a stain that some builders use for striped ebony boards they want to darken. Here is a conversation on the web:
------ There is a process called 'ebonizing' wood using vinegar and rusty nails, but it doesn't go piano black like most people want. Some use India ink or Fiebings Leather dye but those don't go as dark as Minwax 'true black' stain, which is darker than their 'ebony' stain. I've tried all the above and the True Black has been the best performer. Carefully put it on (after using something to remove the oil you just added), in theory the binding should be ok but best to go slow. Go slow around the fret dots too. Instead of a rag, try a Q-tip to apply with more control. Always test in a small area where it doesn't matter first.----------
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I was thinking along the lines of KR that dyeing the finger board with an alcohol based dye might be a better option. It should be straight forward to check out by buying a piece of Pau Ferro from a wood supply house and testing different stains/dyes. Keep in mind some stains/dyes might raise the grain and need a light sanding so doing the actual finger board might be best left to a competent luthier.
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Woolimwoo, congrats on your new Alembic! Sounds like an interesting bass, would love to see pictures. It sounds like an interesting bass to me - I know we can get obsessed about every detail of how our instruments look, but if it were me I'd live with it for a while. I like Bill's idea of looking for another one that matches your desires, plus you might lose money if you modify it.
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Alembics all have a sacrificial veneer under the fingerboard to make fingerboard replacement less difficult/hazardous. Still not a cheap process, however.
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Alembics all have a sacrificial veneer under the fingerboard to make fingerboard replacement less difficult/hazardous. Still not a cheap process, however.
The sacrificial veneer is no longer standard issue, unfortunately.
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Alembics all have a sacrificial veneer under the fingerboard to make fingerboard replacement less difficult/hazardous. Still not a cheap process, however.
The sacrificial veneer is no longer standard issue, unfortunately.
My bass is made in 2003, and how can I figure out that it has a sacrificial veneer?
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Hey Woolimwoo,
Welcome to the forum and congrats on your new axe. We like pics in here so post some if you get the chance.
Regarding the fingerboard, anything is possible if you're willing to spend the time and money. But from what I understand about different fingerboard woods (which admittedly isn't much), pau ferro is somewhere between rosewood and ebony in hardness, feel, and probably sound. It may make more difference on a fretless bass, but I'm not sure switching to ebony would make THAT much difference to the sound or feel, especially if it's a fretted instrument. The biggest change would be how it looks so if that's what's bugging you, then yeah.
Other more knowledgeable folks in here may have more to say on the subject.
Jimmy J
how can I upload image?
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I think a "sacrificial veneer" looks like this. A thin layer of different wood between the fingerboard and neck.
How did I post this pic? Start a note and click the "Preview" button. Then click the "+" sign next to "Attachments and other options". Then "choose file" under "Attach". Find your pic (needs to be less than 1Mb). Sadly, the attached file(s) won't show in your preview until you click "Post", but then you can edit your post after the fact if you don't like how it came out.
Jimmy J
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https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/supplies/finishing-supplies/colors-and-tints-and-stains/black-fingerboard-stain/
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I think a "sacrificial veneer" looks like this. A thin layer of different wood between the fingerboard and neck.
How did I post this pic? Start a note and click the "Preview" button. Then click the "+" sign next to "Attachments and other options". Then "choose file" under "Attach". Find your pic (needs to be less than 1Mb). Sadly, the attached file(s) won't show in your preview until you click "Post", but then you can edit your post after the fact if you don't like how it came out.
:-[
Jimmy J
here is my bass with dyed fretboard. Unfortuneately, I cant check out its veneer because its neck has painted black just like as its body
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That's a great looking bass! Do you like how it plays and sounds? Tell me again what it is that's bothering you about it.
Jimmy J
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Now that we have seen the bass and it already has a dyed fingerboard I think that perhaps Woolimwoo was actually asking about changing out the pau ferro fingerboard for ebony because he likes tonal color and sound of ebony better.
I have one of the early G. Gould GGi5 basses and it has a pau ferro fretboard. The neck is wood reinforced internally with graphite, not the graphite neck he makes now. I generally prefer an ebony fretboard but the pau ferro feels nice and sounds good. The color compliments the cocobolo body and headstock which is probably why it was chosen.
Nice looking bass Woolimwoo! Hope you can find a way to make it work for you 100%.
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That's a great looking bass! Do you like how it plays and sounds? Tell me again what it is that's bothering you about it.
Jimmy J
I want to change its pau ferro fretboard to ebony. And I want to figure out it has "sacrificial veneer", which make it easier to change fretboard. But its neck is painted in black, so I can't see It has sacrificial veneer. Is there any other way to figure out it?
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That's a great looking bass! Do you like how it plays and sounds? Tell me again what it is that's bothering you about it.
Jimmy J
[/quote
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Now that we have seen the bass and it already has a dyed fingerboard I think that perhaps Woolimwoo was actually asking about changing out the pau ferro fingerboard for ebony because he likes tonal color and sound of ebony better.
I have one of the early G. Gould GGi5 basses and it has a pau ferro fretboard. The neck is wood reinforced internally with graphite, not the graphite neck he makes now. I generally prefer an ebony fretboard but the pau ferro feels nice and sounds good. The color compliments the cocobolo body and headstock which is probably why it was chosen.
Nice looking bass Woolimwoo! Hope you can find a way to make it work for you 100%.
Thanks!
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Mica should be able to chime in to tell us if they were still using sacrificial veneers in 2003. Two of my basses were built in the early 2000's and neither have a sacrificial veneer so I doubt yours will have one.
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That's a great looking bass! Do you like how it plays and sounds? Tell me again what it is that's bothering you about it.
Jimmy J
I want to change its pau ferro fretboard to ebony. And I want to figure out it has "sacrificial veneer", which make it easier to change fretboard. But its neck is painted in black, so I can't see It has sacrificial veneer. Is there any other way to figure out it?
Well, again, and I could certainly be wrong, I think that changing that fretted fingerboard from pau ferro to ebony for "tone" would be a costly and time consuming exercise which would result in a very subtle change in the sound of the bass. I would tend to agree with Bill's suggestion that if you MUST have ebony you might want to keep an eye out for a different bass and trade around.
But I'm not trying to stop you! Anything is possible, especially with Alembic. The "Mica" that Keith is referring to is the daughter of the company founders and she knows all the answers. Watch for her to post in this thread and you'll get some good guidance.
Meanwhile, I hope you've been playing that bass for hours on end!
Jimmy J
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If your fingerboard is Pau Ferro it wasn't dyed here - we never dye the fingerboards.
I don't believe the sacrificial veneer was in use in 2003, but it may have been. There isn't a master roster of these events, so we have rely on memory for that. It should be quite obvious, even against a natural Pau Ferro. If everything was dyed later it may not be easy to find.
We should check the serial number to see what materials the build record has. Do you know if the bass was black from our shop?
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If your fingerboard is Pau Ferro it wasn't dyed here - we never dye the fingerboards.
I don't believe the sacrificial veneer was in use in 2003, but it may have been. There isn't a master roster of these events, so we have rely on memory for that. It should be quite obvious, even against a natural Pau Ferro. If everything was dyed later it may not be easy to find.
We should check the serial number to see what materials the build record has. Do you know if the bass was black from our shop?
I painted bass and dyed fretboard at G-cat guitar, korea. Its serial number is 03X13026. Is it possible to send my bass to Alembic and change fretboard?