Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: BeenDown139 on August 12, 2021, 04:27:50 AM
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i may be using my mid-70's series I in battery mode outdoors where i won't have access to line power so i have a few questions operating it without the DS-5:
1) What disconnects the batteries? Turning the pickup selector to the "off" position or does unplugging the 1/4" jack do it? can i leave them in when i'm using the DS-5?
2) I'm assuming the 1/4" jack output is stereo, so do i need a TRS jack for it? this will be going into a mono amp input. so if i'm going to tie the bass output channels together, can i do it directly or do i need to use series resistors? if so what value should i use?
3) does using batteries affect the sound of the bass?
4) can i drive a pair of headphones directly from the output jack?
any enlightenment would be appreciated!
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1.) Unplugging should disconnect power. Switch to stand-by will not.
2.) Rob will remember, but #270 is probably stereo 1/4" out. (see attached pic/schematic/sketch from our buddy Jimmy J. on how to make an adapter... it's in opposite gender, because he was helping me with an old stereo-only power supply with two 1/4" jacks)
3.) No, still sounds like the Voice of God on batteries.
4.) Yes, and it's super-fun. (another trick I learned from Jimmy)
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I would just add to what Gregory said....keep a lot of spare batteries on hand. My Series I basses do not last long on batteries.
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Greg answered your questions well, and as Brian said batteries won’t last too long in a series bass. So, be sure to install new batteries before your gig.
I normally only use the five pin and DS-5 with my series basses, but I believe 270 is stereo at the 1/4” jack. Plug it in with a mono cable and if you only get sound out of the neck pickup then it is stereo output.
Also, Bayou Instrument Cables is a good source for reliable stereo to mono cables:
http://bayoucables.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4
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Butch at Bayou Cables is a fun conversation too.
Can't remember if I ever posted this one or not... here's the cleaned-up and rebadged-with-new-logo DS-? #27 power supply that adapter was made for use with. The adapter summed those two outputs into a mono signal I could input to an F-1X. I keep it in the case and use it with Series bass #77-621 these days. Doesn't make the bass sound different, or me play any better unfortunately... just a cool old box from the early days.
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I have a couple of those older power supplies hanging around. Strictly stereo.
I can get 3 to 4 gigs out of a set of batteries in my Series bass.
I wonder if Bayou Cables would make me a battery pack so I can use my Series basses with a wireless and use my LED's? I know there are instructions on the site here using Altoids boxes. I would appreciate someone else making it for me!
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No power available so no amps? Hmmm. Although sometimes it's just simpler to use a 1/4" cable, like when sitting in on somebody's rig for a jam...
As stated, unplugging the 1/4" cable from the bass is the only way to disconnect the battery (er, unplug the amp side first, duh).
Yes, if the 1/4" jack is stereo you'll need to sum the two channels to keep everything happy. If you have a cable with a stereo plug at one end and split into two mono plugs at the other, and the amp channel has two inputs, there's a good chance you could just plug in both cables to the amp and that would work. I believe there is usually a little summing resistor between two inputs of an amp... (like the bassman schematic shot below). Not true of a DI box's "in" and "through" jacks, those are directly linked.
Weirdly, the value of the summing resistors is not critical. There's probably a minimum, but it seems 20k is commonly mentioned - one for each output and then the mono sum is where they meet. If you're tricky, you can fit these into a right angle 1/4" jack and just use a mono cable. But that takes some finagling and a plug with the space.
Same great tone! Our preamps have the amazing ability to run off anything from +/-9 to +/-18vdc. But only a few hours out of a pair of 9v batteries. Now a couple of car batteries would keep things going for quite a while. :D
The stereo jack on the bass will run headphones but results vary widely because impedance values aren't quite right for many headphone models. Plus you might need to crank the output trimpots... It's not what the bass was designed to do but can be a quick way to check if it is indeed a stereo jack.
Jimmy J
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I can get 3 to 4 gigs out of a set of batteries in my Series bass.
That's my experience with my Starfire with SII electronics. I added battery capability last year and it's been extremely helpful. And still sounds great!
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thanx for the advice everyone!
i figured the summing resistor values weren't too critical as long as they match. i used to keep a fairly good supply of electronic components around but they went by the wayside when i went thru a life change a few years ago.
it used to be a feller could nip over to the neighborhood radio shack or fistell's (any old time denver sparky should fondly recall fistell's with a misty smile. but i digress...) and pick up any odd part that he needed.
nowadays ya can't find a walk-in electronic component store in the denver-metro to save your soul.
but - i still have all my tools for performing electronic surgery and i'm resourceful if nothing else, so i'm gonna try to whip something up this weekend in between my push to get my home winterization projects done before the snow flies. stay tuned...
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Question? Are you only attempting to set up something up that allows you to play for and hear yourself (a la you would only be using your Series bass with headphones e.g. I want to be able to bring my Series I car camping with me and not drive the other campers crazy) or might yousometimes envision playing with others (e.g someone on acoustic guitar or mandolin) who are fully acoustic. Just curious.
As far as headphones go, the Phil Jones headphones I have are great for bass. In fact they are designed for bass. I do drive them with a PJB Bighead Pro HA2 that is powered off a rechargeable battery but the thing is small 3 x 5 x 1 and weighs like 1/2 lb.
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I have an extra stereo to mono cable, fairly new and hardly used. I’ll send it to you.
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Question? Are you only attempting to set up something up that allows you to play for and hear yourself a la you would only be using you Series bass with headphones
the most likely scenario is:
series I -> |-> korg px4b in loop mode -> headphones -> me
music player -> |
while on my patio, preferably well baked while learning a difficult passage. if i'm feeling obnoxious, then it would be:
series I -> Phil Jones Double 4 -> anyone within earshot
I have an extra stereo to mono cable, fairly new and hardly used. I’ll send it to you.
did i mention that you are a gentleman and a scholar, sir?
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Hmmm. I gotta' learn to stay outta' these discussions. Now I am re-thinking something I had asked Mica about doing on my bass currently in the shop. I had thought about having the 1/4" stereo jack converted to mono, like #621's. Now I am wondering about either leaving it stereo or possibly having them add a switch. I actually could use that jack in a stereo application once in a while, but not if we change it. I don't know how much trouble that is to do what I'm asking... seems like I remember BB's come with a switchable jack.
95% of the time, I'm going to be using the 5-pin and it won't matter. I can imagine a scenario where a 1/4" cable and batteries is easier and faster, and a mono signal is necessary. I can also imagine using my headphones in a stereo practice mode, or the stereo chorus.
Hmmm. I'll have to ask sometime.
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I keep a stereo TRS to mono TS cable in my case at all times ---just in case of an issue finding an open AC outlet for my DS-5. My TRS to TS is a Belden 9271 blue cable with a large right angle TRS Neutrik jack with the resistors inside it and a mono TS for the amp end. I tend to use this cable a lot just for ease.
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Gregory,
You know Mica and the team can literally do anything that you think of. But in all the years I've played these bases I've never had an occasion to run stereo out of the 1/4" jack. For stereo operations I would always have either an IN-2 or a DS-5 power supply involved.
I've used the 1/4" jack many times for tuning, like backstage before I get to my 5-pin cable. And very occasionally to plug into somebody else's rig to play a song or two. But I've converted all of my basses to mono at the 1/4" output for those occasions and so I could use any guitar cable.
The only time I ever plugged in headphones directly was years ago while working in a particularly noisy (rf) studio. This was before Ron came up with the custom circuit tuning to reduce noise. I plugged in a set of phone so I could walk around the building and find the quietest spot and direction that I needed to point the pickups. I ended up playing in the lounge. HA! My point is, since it's bass p/u in one ear and bridge p/u in the other, I find the sound a bit disconcerting. I would rather practice without an amp than use headphones in that way. Or, better yet, get one of those little play-along rigs with a mono 1/4" input and a mini-stereo input so you can play along with albums...
Just my spin,
Jimmy J
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Jimmy, Ron told me the headphone output was designed for the player to be able to tune backstage before heading out.
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Hey, how about that? But tune to what? I plug it into a tuner so I'm not really using it to drive headphones. And since it's only or short moments my batteries last quite a while. :)
Jimmy J
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Or, you could just eliminate the 1/4” jack all together :)
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As usual, solid and practical advice Jimmy J.
Yeah... my idle mind becomes the devil's playground sometimes riding around in the service truck. I start thinking about how much I'd rather be playing bass! The bass at issue here is an older Series I currently in the shop getting the RF upgrades, and while there on the bench, the Q-switches are being replaced by CVQ's. (already had a Master Volume) I had asked also for them
to change the 1/4" jack from stereo to mono, like my other Series bass.
Good to get some real-life perspective.
*Rob... you ain't right man! ;D
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I have a set of high impedance AKG 240 Monitor that are easily driven by the stereo jack.
Here's what Ron emailed me.
Hi Keith,
Originally we wired the jacks for stereo output, for high impedance
headphones like the old Sennheiser open air type, for tuning up in the
dressing room.
Ron
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Keith,
That's very cool. This is one of those equipment things where no matter what purpose the feature was originally designed for, there will be somebody who finds another way to use it. Didn't Phil Lesh once "play" his instrument's filters by putting the pickups near a tv camera and using the Q knob to create a melody out of the RF? That's some creative thinkin' right there. The fact that Alembic builds in the battery system in the first place is brilliant. How you use it is up to you.
Rob, that's just crazy talk!
Jimmy J
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Hey, how about that? But tune to what? I plug it into a tuner so I'm not really using it to drive headphones. And since it's only or short moments my batteries last quite a while. :)
Jimmy J
IIRC, back in the 1970’s few of us were plugging into tuners. I believe I was still using a tuning fork. I remember that shortly after I moved to California in 1973 (48 years ago, yesterday) the first amp I acquired was an old Vox Essex bass amp. I loved that it had a little switch in back that, when turned on, would provide a “G” tone out of the amp. I thought it a big step up from the fork at the time!
Bill, tgo
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“Rob... you ain't right man! ”
“Rob, that’s just crazy talk!”
Greg, Jimmy, I blame poor_nigel (and Mica and Kris)…but I actually like it, you don’t have to worry about batteries at all! :)
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I never use the batteries in my Series basses so I took them out...
One thing to keep in mind before converting a Series stereo jack to mono is that you can run the five-pin cable and the 1/4" jack simultaneously. With a mono 1/4" jack you lose the ability to run two separate stereo feeds each to their own amp and speakers. Not sure how many people ever took advantage of this feature but imagine it would be fun to try.
My limited memory tells me that the first portable digital tuners I was aware of came out in 1978 or 1979. I still have the first one I bought, small rectangular gray Korg chromatic tuner. It seemed small at the time, subsequent models were smaller but what a game changer. I remember seeing a picture of Jerry Garcia using the same one onstage in 1979.
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Having never tried it before, I just plugged a pair of headphones directly into my ‘76 Series I guitar. Nada! No sound, nothing! I’ve had it modified at the Mothership to convert the 1/4” to mono. Does that disable the headphone capability? (And yes, there are good batteries in the guitar).
Bill, tgo
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Bill tgo,
You should be able to get some sound (in one ear only) but it depends on the phones, how hot you run your preamp trimpots, pickup and master volume levels, etc. If you are able to drive an amp from that 1/4” out, then it should work.
Jimmy J
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It works with my Further, but not on my Series.
Bill, tgo
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Funniest thing, that bass that Rob posted... that doesn't take batteries anymore... 1681... is just three numbers away from 1684, the one I sent home for the RF upgrades and Series II tweaks. Thomas, may he Rest in Peace, had exquisite taste in fine Alembic basses. That's the second one I've referred to today. Quite a vision he had for that one.
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I’ve converted all of my Series 1/4” jacks to mono as well. I rarely run the basses in stereo, but if I do the amount of extra gear necessary to do it makes a carrying a DS-5 seem like a trifle.
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with the kind assistance of mr. rv_bass i was able to complete this project over the weekend in between a push to complete some more home winterization before the snow flies here in the mile high.
this is how we woodshed on a sunday morning at la casa BeenDown:
● '76 series I in battery mode.
● stereo to mono 1/4" cable.
● early 90's korg pandora PX4B in training/loop mode hooked up to music player and series I. what a war-horse this little box is. i've learned literally 100's of songs using this little device. it's probably responsible for the carpal tunnel surgery that i had to have on my right hand a coupla years ago. i'll probably have them throw this in my coffin with me for my final dirt nap.
● washtub foot rest.
● favorite folding chair with extra padding for my tired old bones.
● sony headphones.
● sunday morning buzz.
i tried the cable going into the mighty PJB double 4 and it sounds awesome as well. life is good!
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Lookin’ Good! :)
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An excellent battery-powered outdoor setup you've got there. And a fine way to spend many hours. :)
Jimmy J
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Hey, how about that? But tune to what? I plug it into a tuner so I'm not really using it to drive headphones. And since it's only or short moments my batteries last quite a while. :)
Jimmy J
There was a time I recall using something called a tuning fork.
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Excellent Woodshed. 8)
I still use an old A tuning fork in my upright bass shop, Keith. ;)
(I get the strangest looks from folks who have never seen one used before...)
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Hey, how about that? But tune to what? I plug it into a tuner so I'm not really using it to drive headphones. And since it's only or short moments my batteries last quite a while. :)
Jimmy J
There was a time I recall using something called a tuning fork.
Or a note played on a piano :)
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There was a time I recall using something called a tuning fork.
i carried around an A440 tuning fork most of my early years in my fender bass case. got pretty good at hitting it on my knee with my right hand, plucking the A string and holding it over a pickup while i wrestled with the A string tuner with my left before it faded out and i had to hit it again. and again.
the first real band i was in used a conn st-11 strobotuner. btw you can also hook one of those up to a microphone which makes it very useful for hypnotizing stoned band-mates while singing old sea chanteys into it.
ahhh....the old days.
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Finally. I've been trying to remember where this thread was all day. I couldn't even figure out what keywords to search for in my own username. Tried 20 combinations of stereo/mono/jack/switch/etc. They say a blind squirrel finds an acorn sometimes... here it was.
I think I'd like to leave the 1/4" jack on #80-1684 stereo, or switchably so. Like a little mini-switch below the jack. 8)
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I'm trying to find his username, I think it is OJDORSON, he makes a converter cord that goes from
the 1/4" Series 1 stereo jack and converts it to my Shure wireless system input.
Unfortunately I'm at work now, but I'll come back later with photos and OJ's username here.