Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: jazzyvee on March 11, 2021, 06:14:08 AM
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I found link to a guitar equipment auction on basschat and decided to have a look. Registered this morning and there were some alembic bits and bobs and I fortunately managed to get an IN-2, a bridge minus the tone block and a box of alembic goodies, tools, a couple of sets of series pickups with humcancellors, pots and a series bass card. I hope everything is complete and in working order although the series card does not show a chip in the socket. The pickups will most likely go into my 1980 Series I shorty as I think the existing ones may be slightly microphonic though they still sound great. I may also change the pots as when I first had the bass it was causing a squealing noise but that has since stopped after GeePee's dad took a look at it. But if the are the right ones then it may be worth doing.
As it happens the In-2 is an american voltage unit so if that can't be changed to 240V UK rectified at a sensible price it will be up for resale if anyone is interested. Apparently the serial number is #14 not that it tells me anything that it's probably really vintage.
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BINGO - that's an instant win for your little short-scale Series! Very Nice. :)
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Geez, what a haul! Was the Entwistle's spares kit or something? Amazing.
Jazzy, because of the vintage of these parts, you'll find the preamp card's ICs soldered to the back side of the board - in tiny robust metal packages. The empty socket you see is for the wiring harness.
Also note the old style mini-coax connectors for pickups and board. If your shorty doesn't have those you'll need an adaptor to swap anything in. And of course if you change components you won't have the noise mod.
What a great, rare find! Congrats!
Jimmy J
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What a great find... congratulations! I would think changing the power supply on the IN-2 would be possible, and not terribly expensive, but if you decide to sell instead I would be interested.
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The IN-2 should not require much power so I would consider a 240V - 120V adapter. I can order one on Amazon here in the states for about £21.
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Looks like you also have the wiring strip that goes into the PF6 card in there. If you want to sell the card and maybe the pickups that you remove I am very interested.
Dave
USA
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Also, that plastic bag looks to hold the chips for the PF6 card.
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There was only a few Alembic items, in fact there were three IN-2 units, two working, one had 3 DI outs and one was for spares or repair but was incomplete apparently. Maybe around 8 bridges and the box of goodies which was the main thing I wanted to get because of the pickups and the pots really. I chose that bridge because it has uncut saddles and the IN-2 was a curious purchase. It's a bit in need of tlc but it could replace the DS-5 in my F-2B rack and provide me with DI outs. Fingers crossed that everything works. I will try to find out where the stuff came from. I would imagine they are from one source. Maybe there is something in the box to reveal the source. Of course if there is anything that I don't need it will be advertised here first.
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I'm almost certain that these parts were from Entwistle's tech.
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Wow, thanks for chipping in. That's good to know I may have something from the great man. A question though. If I was to put a pair of these pickups on my S1 shorty, would I have to use the humcancellor from the boxed set for it to work effectively or is the one in my bass a good enough match?
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Nice score! I would definitely get the IN-2 up and running. The DIs in it sound as good as anything I've ever used. The normalled FX loop is super handy.
Great score on the pots and other parts, too. Keep all that stuff around, you never know when you'll need some spare parts.
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With all that vintage oxidisation, hope the switches and sockets on the in-2 are in better condition than they look.
Is there any kind of instruction manual anywhere as a pdf?
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As far as replacing S1 pickups without replacing the humcancellor, I think you just have to try it out to see how it works. I have done it on a couple and it was OK, but the replacements were around the same vintage and I live in a pretty rf noise free area.
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Jazzyvee,
If that photo is the actual IN-2 that you bought, the 1/4" jack next to the 5-pin connector is an unknown mod.
But the IN-2 is not a complicated device and there are only a few components, as you can see in this thread:
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=21890.0 (https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=21890.0)
Basically in and out jacks, a self contained power supply, two very nice UTC audio transformers for the DI outputs, a selector switch with some summing resistors... and that's kinda it. In other words, if yours has been stored in a swamp and is badly corroded, you could completely rebuild it without spending too much money.
Quite a score! In my road trunk I'm lucky to have a collection of spare bits. Two preamp boards (one pre-tuned with RW's mod), a prewired p/u selector switch, a full set of knobs, 5-pin connectors of all variety, etc. This is why I guessed that the kit you found could only have belonged to either JE or maybe MK. That collection of rare parts might not mean much to somebody who didn't know, but for all of us in here ... just wow!
Jimmy J
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It's funny... when Jimmy J. posted that notion yesterday these may have been Entwistle's spares, I thought; yeah, very, very possible, and Jimmy is one of the few guys who would recognize what would be in a gigging Alembican's spares kit. Then Mica (almost) confirmed it. Small world in here some days. :)
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Jimmy J and Jazzyvee - I would bet that that IN-2 is fine. I have one that was in a swamp! About 15 years ago it spent a couple of weeks under 8 feet of salt water. It still looks good and works perfectly!
But mine was never modified. If you need pictures of under the hood just let me know.
Michael
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There were actually three in-2 units in the auction, one had 3 di outs and some mods the was listed for spares or repair.
All three have variations and customised.
The first one is serial number 10, the second is 13 and mine is 14.
So it looks like the earth lift switches on the DI outs came as a later feature.
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Wow, interesting. Those IN-2s are all unusual. I've got serial #21 which looks the most like the one you've purchased - except for your extra 1/4" input (??) jack. Since they are essentially just rack-mounted PSUs with various outputs, they're ripe for modifications. Mine too has been hacked up over the years for various purposes. It would be interesting to learn how these were tweaked. Has the rest of the lot sold?
Jimmy J
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Wow, interesting. Those IN-2s are all unusual. I've got serial #21 which looks the most like the one you've purchased - except for your extra 1/4" input (??) jack. Since they are essentially just rack-mounted PSUs with various outputs, they're ripe for modifications. Mine too has been hacked up over the years for various purposes. It would be interesting to learn how these were tweaked. Has the rest of the lot sold?
Jimmy J
I found a link for the auction yesterday and everything had sold. I also was looking at a site that detailed Entwistle's equipment over the years and they mention that originally he had an IN-1. I didn't realize those ever existed or possibly they were wrong about the model though they did indicate the IN-2 replaced the IN-1.
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Yes, they all sold. i did intend to get the two working ones, refurb and sell on one of them.
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Based on what you guys are saying here, my IN-2 must be toward the end of the run. Mine is serial number 53, and the selector knob is blue and not red.
Anyone know how many were made?
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Yep.
Wow. :-O
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Hi all, quick intro: I'm Wyzard, generally more easily found on TGP. T'was I picked up the other working IN-2, the #13. I'll be actually collecting it some time this week from the auction house.
I used to collect Entwistle bits, being a bassist back then, and having hung out at ML back in the day... my cousin also used to work at Rock City, just a few doors down, so I was over there quite a lot on a gear hire mission. Like a few of you, I have a strong suspicion this whole trove was from his gear hoard.
I'll be taking it to my tech over the next few weeks, situation permitting. I'll let you all know what he finds.
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The initial response from the auction house when I picked the IN-2 up today was this: it came from a tech/luthier, who was "into Alembic stuff". They didn't appear to have any evidence to suggest that it had been anywhere near Entwistle....
I'll keep digging.
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My guess is these parts came from Alan Rogan's stash... he was the guitar tech for The Who from 1975 until his passing in 2019. I know of at least one guitar from his personal collection that has made it back to the states and is going to be refurbished/upgraded by the luthier who built it. Then again I could be totally wrong. I tend to doubt that Entwistle did much, if any work, on his instrument collection and if correct that would rule out these coming through his estate.
Jealous you guys have IN-2s. Seems like the best interface for a Series bass, F2-B and Superfilter.
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I hope they work without much trouble.
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I used to know Rogan, as we have/had a bunch of mutual friends; but it would be an understatement to say that he and I had some ....ah, "history"............;D I'll ask around, and see if anyone else knows anything.
In any event, it'll be going to my tech soon, so more later.
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I would be interested in what signal goes to the third DI out.
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I'll get it all mapped out while it's being gone over.
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Based on what you guys are saying here, my IN-2 must be toward the end of the run. Mine is serial number 53, and the selector knob is blue and not red.
Anyone know how many were made?
Mine is #48 and has a red knob. I'm just shooting from the hip with no evidence but I think there might have been about 75 made. Mica would know if anyone does.
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Ok I got the goods today and may be you can tell me if the PF-6 card is complete.
The In-2 looks in much better nick than the auction pictures led me to believe, though the metal nuts holding the switches and sockets on look oxidised so that may be an indication as to the insides of the sockets too. (not taken the back off yet)
There is an input jack on the front so it will be interesting as to what outputs that will have access to.
In the tin box here are three dual gang pots and three single pots, two don't have an alembic stamp on but all look the same.
There are 5 IC chips on cream holders, but nothing in the black one, resistors and capacitor and things that look like transistors with more than 3 legs.
The pickups are one complete set including the hum cancellor and a single pickup and hum cancellor.
As the auction had no indication as to the size of the bridges, I ended up with three and only one is the same width as my 4 string alembics so I guess the others will be sold on as soon as I can find a fair price but as long as I don't lose out on it I'm not aiming to make a killing. Just a fair price. I will take some measurements next week and pop them on here.
I do have an external 240 - 110v transformer somewhere so I will have a go at trying it out in the week and in the meantime if anyone has any documentation on how I can wire it up and what the sockets on the back "From Preamp to Low z Output" does. I presume its related to the DI, so how do Use that and still get my signal to my power amp.
Have a great weekend.
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Jazzyvee,
I still can't get over this haul, what a catch! The preamp card looks intact and is from the time before they were built with IC sockets. You also have spares of theses flat-pack opamp chips plus spares of the FET front end (transistor-like with a black top). Again, the black socket on the top of the board is for the instrument's wiring harness, not a chip. And it also has the older mini-coax connectors for the pickups.
Other than the extra 1/4" input, the IN-2 is normally wired like this: both A+B instrument output channels are "normaled" to the DI's transformer inputs. Depending on how you set the selector switch, you would get stereo, mono, or even "A both" or "B both" out of the two XLR outputs. If you plug into the rear jack marked "from preamp to lo-z output" you interrupt that "normal" connection and the DI boxes become like any normal external DI. (And you have two of them!)
Please pop the lid off that IN-2 and post some pics for further info. Also give us an idea of your usual setup, like where you normally insert a DI box in your big rig, and we'll see if we can figure out the best signal routing.
Really cool!
Jimmy J
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Jazzyvee.
Indeed that is a sublime bundled acquisition ! I send you my congratulations !
I own two such Alembic 1N-2 units .The first one that I acquired was a gift from a friend . It was in disrepair and in rough condition , It cleaned up well !. As well , I needed to replace the power supply section that consisted of an epoxy potted regulated unit .I sent the specs to Acopian.com, who sent me a replacement that wound fit in the rack enclosure made to order ( not cheap ). I did the work my self with Ron's kind advice . The second IN-2 was pristine in all regards .
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The PF6 card looks complete, with the extra chips and transistors as spares? If you ever want to sell that card let me know. I need one like it for a project!
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I plan to try it out in my short scale series I this coming week with the new pickups. Being on this side of the pond with series basses its is sensible for me to hang on to it in case i ever need a spare. No idea on the cost of a pf6 card from alembic plus shipping to the uk would be, but it’s most likely seriously expensive. That is assuming they would even sell one to me as opposed to requiring me to send the bass back to the factory.
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Damn I just saw that, Jazzy that's a great find, can't believe that was on basschat
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Hey Goran, that is where i discovered the auction. I chose (selflishly) not to mention it here to avoid a battle for the bits i really wanted which were the pickups and pots for my Series shorty and In-2. Thankfully i got both.
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Oh here we go. I have just taken the top off and inside is spotlessly clean, except for the chassis screws which are oxidised and the jack contacts just needed exercising to clean the jack contact area. Not sure how to clean the 5 pins and the DI socket pins on the front though. You are right Jimmy it does look like a basic box with a lot of space. The jack input socket on the front near the 5 pin seems to be a mono socket that connects directly to both the A & B sockets and the "from preamp" sockets. Which if I'm correct makes it a much easier way to share the unit with my non series basses.
Here is a photo.
I also found a 240v to 110v, 100W transformer that I bought when i got a samson VHF wireless transmitter whilst on tour in the states in 92. So I can at least try it out and see if it is working and crackle free until I can find a 240v transformer.
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Jazzyvee ,
Both of my units have the same layout . On the right are the Lovely UTC " Ouncer" audio transformers . On the left the encapsulated epoxy potted regulated power supply . I had to replace that on my first IN-2 after watching and monitoring the unsteady voltage activity for several hours while I bench tested it . It eventually completely ceased to register any voltage output .
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Ok I just plugged it into my rack and here is what I found. From the front
A to input 1 of F-2B, B to input 2 of F-2B
output from F-2b outputs A & B to the respective the rear jacks in IN-2 marked "from preamp to lo-z output" then
output A and output B from IN-2 to individual left and right channels of my Power amp.
Bingo all worked first time no noise interference. Just sound. :-)
What I need now is to get my SF-2 into the signal chain somehow. If I take the rear outs from the F2b to the A and B inputs on the back of the SF-2 then the outputs of the SF-2 to the power amp via the "from preamp to lo-z output" or even just direct to power amp I still get a huge CRACK sound when i play notes. The only way I can get rid of that noise is to put the SF-2 in front of the F-2B but then I have to take the A &b B outs from the front of the IN-2 via long cables routed around the outside of the rack to rear and into the SF-2 A & B, then the outs of the SF-2 all the way round to the front of the rack to the F-2B inputs then out of the back of the F-2B to the power amp either via In-2 or direct to power amp input. Which is quite untidy.
I'm a bit stuck with an alternative wiring strategy at the moment.
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Hey Jazzyvee,
Great to hear it fired up and seems to be doing what it was built to do. A note on that 1/4" input mod: following the wires in the photo, I believe that is a stereo jack. Meaning with an older model Alembic bass or guitar with battery operated stereo 1/4" output, a stereo 1/4" cable would allow you to plug straight in - without powering up the IN-2 - and the signal routing would be intact. Make sense?
And just to mess with you more, it could also serve as an OUTPUT of an instrument plugged into the 5-pin connector. HA!
I still believe that the "crack" you are describing is because you are overdriving something in the chain. Remember, your instrument can have almost a line-level output (enough to directly drive a power amp), then the F-2B is another preamp with a ton of gain, and then the SF2 is yet another. Try that setup you've described but turn the instrument's master volume down to about 1/2 and see what kind of volume / tone / noise you get using the other pres for gain. Remember that turning down our master volumes does not change the tone. It could be something as easy as that.
As for routing... IN-2 outputs are front and back, SF2 has inputs and outputs on the rear panel, but the F-2B is front in and rear out only. If you don't have an open slot in your rack which you could pass short cables through, this is where MODIFYING the IN-2 gets interesting. You will not likely need double sets of outputs on the front and the rear of the IN-2. So one set of those 1/4" jacks could easily be wired as a passthrough from back to front if you needed that. Furthermore, depending on what kind of signal you want to make available to the DI outputs, things can be wired accordingly with linked 1/4" DI inputs, mono summing resistors, etc. It's kind of endless!
I'll leave it there and let you think about all that. Sorry I get all nerdy when talking about this stuff. HA!
Jimmy J
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Thanks Jimmy, your experience is always welcome and i will try the gain suggestions. My previous use of the rig for the past few years is to max out the power amps and use a really low preamp setting which worked fine but one of the things that made me consider reducing the power amp setting was to hopefully reduce the risk of blowing my speakers if something went wrong down between the bass and amp input resulting in a large signal hitting my cabs at full volume.
Anyway, i have just got the back off my Series shorty and the cables ends have the computer type connectors so my new, spare pf6 card wont connect to the pickups in my bass. So i presume my existing card is newer. But i would like to try it out if possible but how do i get the hum cancellor out? Maybe i will give mica a call later as well and see what she advises. I have a local electronics expert who repairs musical instrument amps, audio gear and high end hifi systems. he may be able to make some sort simple adaptor cables so i can try any combination of the pickups and cards in my bass to check they all work and decide which to keep in the bass.
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8)
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Jazzyvee,
Stop me if I'm driving you crazy with all these replies, ideas, and suggestions. I've been fiddling with Alembic gear for so long now that I am getting close to understanding it. HA!
Not to hijack this thread, and you can start another if you want, but the gain structure thing can be tricky. And the more gear in the chain the trickier. I get what you mean about wanting to save your speakers but I don't know if trimming the power amp inputs is the best choice, sonically. My MAIN suggestion is that you always make sure your instrument is on standby before connecting or disconnecting the 5-pin cable. If it's accidentally in the "on" position the preamp board sends a large audio THUMP down the line as it power's up.
But beyond that, there is not that much to fear and it's just a matter of balancing the ins and outs so that each consecutive piece is operating at its optimal input and output level. Whatever is best for the signal to noise ratio, headroom, etc...
So describe (here or in another thread) the combinations that you really like. For instance, for recording; do you like the sound of the instruments straight DI? Or would you prefer to run through the SuperFilter? Or would you also want to pass through the F-2B before the recording desk?
Then what about live? First question; do you run your rig in stereo all the way to two sets of speakers? And would you want to send both signals to the PA board (with specific instructions for the FOH mixer)? Do you pass through the SF first then the 2B or vice versa? Have you tried it the other way around?
Give us a little more info on those questions and let's see if we can't come up with some ideas.
Now my next post will address your questions about that older model preamp card you've scored...
Jimmy J
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Right, so... The first issue with trying to swap these older pieces into your shorty are:
#1 your hum canceller is glued in place and not easy to swap out without literally using a hammer. Sometimes they have to drill into it and use a giant screw to pull it out (or maybe I dreamt that, but I'm pretty sure about the hammer). I kinda doubt you want to go that far to make an A to B comparison.
#2, take a close look at the size of that "spare" hum coil and compare it to the one in your bass now. There's a good chance it is NOT exactly the same. And there's no way to know if it's the same depth.
#3, the connectors. I lived through the transition period and actually have two (oddly, not three) adaptors that I got from Alembic way back when. See the pic attached. The tiny coax connectors on the pickup side are highly unusual (in audio) and I'd be surprised if your local repair guy had ever seen one - unless he also dabbles in microwave work. Furthermore, these adaptors are to get from older model pickups to a newer model preamp card, not the other way around. So assuming you don't want to bust out your hum coil, I don't know if there was ever an adaptor made to connect new pickups to an old card. That could be rigged but you'd need to make a solder connection directly to the board.
So ... if you had these two adaptors that I'm looking at (and Mica may still have some) you could swap in the older pickups (assuming THEY fit) and connect them to your current preamp card to see what happens. However ... does your bass have Ron's magical noise-reduction mod? If so, those fine-tuned components will no longer do their job properly if you swap pickups or hum canceller...
I don't mean to throw water on your plans but I must also add that I believe any difference in TONE between old/new pickups, and old/new preamp boards, will be extremely subtle and very difficult to notice. Alembic has never "cut corners" on components. It's never about cost. They only make changes if a component is no longer manufactured, or no longer made to the specs that they require. There is no magic "pre-CBS", "best vintage" situation with Alembic, if you see what I mean.
Jimmy J
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Hi Jimmy i think to save confusion on this thread due me going off at a tangent about the crack in sound again, can we continue that conversation about gain structure stuff on this previous thread https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=25841.30
Then we can keep this one related to the alembic goodies I got hold of. Hope that's OK.
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Right, so... The first issue with trying to swap these older pieces into your shorty are:
#1 your hum canceller is glued in place and not easy to swap out without literally using a hammer. Sometimes they have to drill into it and use a giant screw to pull it out (or maybe I dreamt that, but I'm pretty sure about the hammer). I kinda doubt you want to go that far to make an A to B comparison.
#2, take a close look at the size of that "spare" hum coil and compare it to the one in your bass now. There's a good chance it is NOT exactly the same. And there's no way to know if it's the same depth.
#3, the connectors. I lived through the transition period and actually have two (oddly, not three) adaptors that I got from Alembic way back when. See the pic attached. The tiny coax connectors on the pickup side are highly unusual (in audio) and I'd be surprised if your local repair guy had ever seen one - unless he also dabbles in microwave work. Furthermore, these adaptors are to get from older model pickups to a newer model preamp card, not the other way around. So assuming you don't want to bust out your hum coil, I don't know if there was ever an adaptor made to connect new pickups to an old card. That could be rigged but you'd need to make a solder connection directly to the board.
So ... if you had these two adaptors that I'm looking at (and Mica may still have some) you could swap in the older pickups (assuming THEY fit) and connect them to your current preamp card to see what happens. However ... does your bass have Ron's magical noise-reduction mod? If so, those fine-tuned components will no longer do their job properly if you swap pickups or hum canceller...
I don't mean to throw water on your plans but I must also add that I believe any difference in TONE between old/new pickups, and old/new preamp boards, will be extremely subtle and very difficult to notice. Alembic has never "cut corners" on components. It's never about cost. They only make changes if a component is no longer manufactured, or no longer made to the specs that they require. There is no magic "pre-CBS", "best vintage" situation with Alembic, if you see what I mean.
Jimmy J
In respect to 1 & 2, I don't really want to remove the hum canceller if it is going to be a destructive process for risk of damage to the bass and also that they may not be the same size as you now suggest could be a possibility.
3, the electronics guy I am thinking of is someone who repairs radio and TV equipment both vintage and modern day stuff so there is the possibility he will know where to get them even if he doesn't have them himself.
I do have a mate (also a bass player) who has a business installing and setting up Cell phone networks and repairing RF equipment for Taxi's and security companies so hhe may be able to get hold of some.
My shorty does not have the noise reduction system and I believe these pickups in it are now slightly microphonic although they still sound great. As for the difference in new and vintage pickups, i'm sure you are right though it would be good to know that these new bits actually are useable in the event of me needing to utilise them at some point. I will contact Mica to see if I can order some connectors if I can't get any made locally. Thanks again for your input. :-)
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Hi Jimmy i think to save confusion on this thread due me going off at a tangent about the crack in sound again, can we continue that conversation about gain structure stuff on this previous thread https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=25841.30 (https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=25841.30)
Then we can keep this one related to the alembic goodies I got hold of. Hope that's OK.
I knew we had started talking about this somewhere, so I'll be over there too...
So really, to try the old pickups with your current preamp card these little adaptors would do he trick. If Mica doesn't have any left, tell me here and perhaps I can send these two over. (My oldest bass is a 1980 and the connectors, and the chips had already changed by that time.) The alternative is to cut the pickup leads and put on the new style connectors, which would likely be easier to source.
Jimmy J
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Thanks Jimmy, so kind. The bass I have these bits in mind for is a 1980 series I shorty. I will make some calls and see what I can find.
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not to butt in but:
I'd be surprised if your local repair guy had ever seen one - unless he also dabbles in microwave work.
you just made an old electrical engineer smile!
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My 2 cents worth:
I believe the hum canceller will either break loose with one quick tap or not at all. The ones I have worked on would not come loose. I have put other pickups into a older series which still retained it's original hum PUP with no adverse problems. The old style Molex connectors on the older series instruments used a special tool to crimp them onto the wire.
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If I am not mistaken , it was once mentioned in this forum regarding an individual whom worked for Alembic that liked to use epoxy to glue in hum cancellers . Beware of the use of force , 8) Mayest it prudent be, to be careful ?
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Ok I just plugged it into my rack and here is what I found. From the front
A to input 1 of F-2B, B to input 2 of F-2B
output from F-2b outputs A & B to the respective the rear jacks in IN-2 marked "from preamp to lo-z output" then
output A and output B from IN-2 to individual left and right channels of my Power amp.
Bingo all worked first time no noise interference. Just sound. :-)
What I need now is to get my SF-2 into the signal chain somehow. If I take the rear outs from the F2b to the A and B inputs on the back of the SF-2 then the outputs of the SF-2 to the power amp via the "from preamp to lo-z output" or even just direct to power amp I still get a huge CRACK sound when i play notes. The only way I can get rid of that noise is to put the SF-2 in front of the F-2B but then I have to take the A &b B outs from the front of the IN-2 via long cables routed around the outside of the rack to rear and into the SF-2 A & B, then the outs of the SF-2 all the way round to the front of the rack to the F-2B inputs then out of the back of the F-2B to the power amp either via In-2 or direct to power amp input. Which is quite untidy.
I'm a bit stuck with an alternative wiring strategy at the moment.
I ran into the same problem. Frankly, I just took the SF-2 out of my rig, after much frustration. I really don't want to have wires going back to front and front to back and all that. If you figure it out, let me know!
I do think the way that the IN-2 and F-2B interface is brilliant. I have also wired it with further effects between the F-2B and the returns on the IN-2. That worked out quite well.
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Hi Edwin, i managed to find a solution that seems to be heading in the right direction without any wires going front to back. See my most recent post here.
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=25841.30 (https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=25841.30)
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Right, so... The first issue with trying to swap these older pieces into your shorty are:
#1 your hum canceller is glued in place and not easy to swap out without literally using a hammer. Sometimes they have to drill into it and use a giant screw to pull it out (or maybe I dreamt that, but I'm pretty sure about the hammer). I kinda doubt you want to go that far to make an A to B comparison.
#2, take a close look at the size of that "spare" hum coil and compare it to the one in your bass now. There's a good chance it is NOT exactly the same. And there's no way to know if it's the same depth.
#3, the connectors. I lived through the transition period and actually have two (oddly, not three) adaptors that I got from Alembic way back when. See the pic attached. The tiny coax connectors on the pickup side are highly unusual (in audio) and I'd be surprised if your local repair guy had ever seen one - unless he also dabbles in microwave work. Furthermore, these adaptors are to get from older model pickups to a newer model preamp card, not the other way around. So assuming you don't want to bust out your hum coil, I don't know if there was ever an adaptor made to connect new pickups to an old card. That could be rigged but you'd need to make a solder connection directly to the board.
So ... if you had these two adaptors that I'm looking at (and Mica may still have some) you could swap in the older pickups (assuming THEY fit) and connect them to your current preamp card to see what happens. However ... does your bass have Ron's magical noise-reduction mod? If so, those fine-tuned components will no longer do their job properly if you swap pickups or hum canceller...
I don't mean to throw water on your plans but I must also add that I believe any difference in TONE between old/new pickups, and old/new preamp boards, will be extremely subtle and very difficult to notice. Alembic has never "cut corners" on components. It's never about cost. They only make changes if a component is no longer manufactured, or no longer made to the specs that they require. There is no magic "pre-CBS", "best vintage" situation with Alembic, if you see what I mean.
Jimmy J
Hi Jimmy, i called Mica last night and she is organising some adaptor cables so i can connect any combination of my bits together, so hopefully the new pickups will work quietly with the old hum canceller.. 👍🏾
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Alright then! Let us know how the experimenting goes.
That is such a great collection of parts.... 8)
Jimmy J
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I will, Mica did indicate that the pickups and the hum-cancellers and pickups are a matched set so there is a chance that when I install the new pickups I may experience some directional interference. Fingers crossed that does not happen. But since there are only three pickups and two hum-cancellers, who knows the right combination even if I was to remove the existing hum-canceller in my bass.
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Good morning, Jazzyvee
Congrats ! I got 3 of the unused bridges, from the same auction.
kr
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Cool, are they the right size for your bass. I got three but only one is the right size for my bass. So when i can find out how much they could sell for i will let them go.
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Well, I will need one for a Starfire project, in the near future. Or two Starfire projects.
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Would this transformer adaptor plug have enough umph to provider power to the bass on the In-2.
https://www.plugadaptors.co.uk/product/3079099/MX651001/Step-Down-Voltage-Converter-230V---110V--45VA- (https://www.plugadaptors.co.uk/product/3079099/MX651001/Step-Down-Voltage-Converter-230V---110V--45VA-)
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Yes, I think the IN-2 actually says "10w" on the back so that "45w" adaptor should be plenty.
Jimmy J
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Hi Edwin, i managed to find a solution that seems to be heading in the right direction without any wires going front to back. See my most recent post here.
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=25841.30 (https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=25841.30)
Thanks! A great solution.
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Hey Jimmy, the postman arrived with the conversion leads today from Alembic.
I took my bass to Jaydee Custom Guitars about 3 weeks ago to have the new saddles cut and fitted and a fret dress so once that is done I will be able to see how/if the new (vintage) pickups and card work in the short scale bass.
From what you mentioned earlier about the noise upgrade and the "no pre-cbs" scenario, i hope that since mine has not had the upgrade, the new pickups at least work and may make it a tad quieter than he existing ones are now. They are a lot quieter than when I first had the bass.
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Let the experiment continue! It will be interesting to read what you discover about any noticeable difference between the old and new pickups.
Those adaptors, if they look like the ones in my "reply #44" post, are made for using a new preamp board with old pickups. So you can leave your hum canceller plugged in and use the adaptors with the old pickups to see what that combo sounds like (you may need to adjust your hum balance controls). But I've never seen an adaptor for the other way around - new pickups into an old preamp board. Did the package from Mica also include some of those?
Keep us informed!
Jimmy J
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Yes I requested adaptors for both ways including the hum-canceller, just in case. :-)
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Wow, that's cool! I didn't know they ever built any of those.
You are all set to test out every combination in JV's Alembic Laboratory.
Let us know what you discover.
Jimmy J
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Custom, Jimmy, custom!
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Word!
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I collected my bass from Jaydee yesterday afternoon and they have done a great job (as always) cut new saddles and dressed frets. Apparently there were a few high spots in the middle of the neck. Anyway it sounds great now. So I will try to find some time over the next couple of days to try chop and changing pickups and PF-cards to see what works and in what combinations.
Watch this space.
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Right here goes, this evening I put the new pickups from the auction in the bass with the original card and I would say that they sound brighter/cleaner and the bass sounds less warm than the original pickups but chunkier. I had to adjust the noise cancelling and it sounds really great. Initially I was getting a squeal again on the bridge pickup when the Q-switch was on and the filter close to being fully open. Turning the connector round on the hum canceller cancelled that squeal out too. So maybe i put it back on the wrong way round.
The spare PF card works great too and is louder but that is probably just the trim pot settings. I had to pop some insulation on the brass connectors as they were making contact with stuff under the hood and causing noise probably due to shorting out on the back of the pots.
So I think I will keep the new pickups in and see how they hold out.
I do think the bass could do with the noise cancelling done but it is only evident if the gain is up on my F-1x but with it low and the power amp up the high frequency interference is virtually inaudible. If I ever get statside with the bass I would consider finding out if I could drop it off at alembic and hope it could be done for me to carry home again. But as I said it is still really quiet but not as quiet as my other series basses and probably never heard on a gig.
So far So good.
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Excellent news!
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What a great thread! Congrats Jazzy!
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I think there is a feedback loop somewhere in the system and I have a hunch that it may be something to do with the A & B pre-amp returns getting back into the input A & B sockets.
Yesterday I tried turning the input gain of the F-2B up and it got to a point where everything just squealed even thought the bass was on mute. I am wondering if the extra output socket mod added to the front is as normally closed jacks and connecting the feed from the pre-amp returns ( since it's connected to those jacks ) and feeding it into the input again. I will get my circuit tester on the case later and see if any of the electrical training I did in my early working life still accessible. I know at least enough not to get electrocuted.
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Ok I have done some drawings to make my wiring experiments more clear. For simplicity I have only showed the cable route for the A route but the B route follows the same stages. This is all based on me using a series bass with the 5 pin and the IN-2 on the Stereo setting and the SF-2 on the stereo setting also.
Scenario 1 Goes from the In-2 into the SF-2 first.
Scenario 2 Goes from the In-2 to the F-2B first.
I have included a blank image so maybe your suggestions can be drawn on that since a visual representation always helps.
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Jazzyvee,
Either version 001 of 002 looks correct so I can't figure out what might be causing any kind of feedback. I'd say, for testing, just skip the last loop through the IN-2 rear panel (DI Box mode) just to eliminate that as the issue.
That front panel extra jack mod appears to be a stereo mirror of the rear panel output jacks. Meaning, if nothing is plugged into the rear panel "from preamp to lo-z..." jacks, then it would work like a headphone output of your dry bass signal. If something is plugged into the "from preamp..." jacks, then it would be a stereo output of that signal, just like the rear panel "through" jacks.
Jimmy J
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OK makes sense. I will try that later this evening.
late last night I did find a couple of crackly leads as I was moving the wiring about so will test those and make sure all the others are ok.
thanks Jimmy.
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Ok been a busy day, lots of different permutations and after testing cables etc. I took Jimmy J's advice and skipped the loop through the IN-2 Rear panel (DI Box Mod) and that got rid of the feedback issue. ( thanks)
I got my mesa walkabout on the team and used it for taking the power amp feed into the return socket on the mesa amp.
I also used my mesa powerhouse cab instead of the BF cabs and that never went crack ever even on the same settings that caused the cracking sound on the barefaced cabs. ( strange).
I called barefaced to find out if what I was hearing is either because the speakers are damaged and what should I be listening for to tell if the speakers have been damaged (blown). He said you'd smell burning of the voice call. So speakers are fine.
Whatever permutation of wiring of the rig I tried the sound was ok unless the gain was too high on the F2-b which just caused the tube saturation which as a different thing altogether and not an area i venture in.
Just to make sure the rack power amp was ok I plugged my bass via the small DS-5 block into the mesa front end and took the send out from the mesa into the power amp and never got any of the crack sound. (quite hissy though).
So after all that I wired it back as in picture 1 except fir the loop back through the IN-2 and this time all is fine even at high volumes from my bass. I think there may be something up with the IN-2 so I think I will take it to my local servicing guy and get him to give it an overhaul maybe new jacks, resoldering though.... i could probably do that myself if I knew the jacks to buy. I will see how busy he is first. If he can do it quickly then I will take it to him to check out otherwise I may give it a go.
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That's all good news. Blown speakers... aside from the "smell of burning voice coils" (really?), in my experience, the easiest way to see if all is good is to physically move the speaker cone back and forth with your fingers (don't press the center dust cap - too fragile). If it moves freely all is good. If there's any resistance or rubbing it needs to see a doctor.
I still can't quite figure out why the DI box function would be causing you problems, but there is one thing I see in the picture you posted which has me wondering... At the modified 1/4" front panel jack it looks like the shield of the added gray wire is connected to the same pin as the blue wire. That would not be right as it would short out your B channel or whatever is plugged into the "from preamp..." right rear jack. In fact, there's no need to shield that wire anyway as the chassis is acting as a shield. You could easily snip that wire where it connects to each jack and remove it. Not knowing what it's original purpose was, maybe you should just disable it.
I have another mod you may want to consider ... Say you want to run your rig in full stereo but want to send a mono signal to the PA. There are 6 rear panel jacks available so what I would do is keep only 2 directly linked to the front panel (and thus as "dry" outputs of your bass), then disconnect the remaining two jacks from the front panel, link them together as a "through", and use two 20k resistors to make a summing network to send both "from preamp..." signals to one of the transformers, and out the front panel XLR. It sounds more complicated than it really is but this is what I mean when I say the IN-2 being ripe for mods. :)
Jimmy J
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I recently had some interest in one of the bridges which i will be taking to the post office to weigh for postage cost. Other than that not much interest in the second bridge.
So, any creative uses for the other bridge if i can't find a new owner. Current thinking is a door or drawer handle. :-)
Jimmy, i haven't tried using that extra jack as I have no idea if it's an input or output modification so next time I open it up I will indeed remove them. In the meantime I hope to get it to my local electronics service and repair centre and get new 5 pin and DI sockets. They do work fine but the pins are tarnished and not sure how to clean them.
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Hey Jazzyvee,
Again, these parts are fascinating to us in here but the audience for them is, shall we say, limited. We hope you can find a drawer to put them in and just hang on until somebody from our small community has a need.
Here are my thoughts on that mystery 1/4" jack:
#1, if only the bass were plugged in it would serve as a stereo output and probably even drive headphones.
But, #2, because of it's mounted right next to the 5-pin bass input I suspect it was added as a redundant input to be used in case the power supply failed. All you'd need is a stereo guitar cable from the bass's 1/4" jack to that input and you'd be back into the rig with the bass running on battery power. That's my current theory (a-hem, which is mine), that it's a backup input.
Jimmy J
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Interesting, i will try plugging in my non alembic bass first just in the unlikely, but theoretically possible, event that your your current theory has holes. ;-)
Thanks Jimmy.
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Um, not gonna work the same with a non-Series bass. Think 1/4" STEREO cable (nobody has one of these) with one end plugged into the bass's 1/4" jack and the other end plugged into that mystery jack (disconnecting the 5-pin cable from the bass). That would give you battery-powered signal from both pickups (stereo) feeding into the IN-2's audio signal path in the same way you've set it up to work with the 5-pin cable. The reason I'm guessing that about it is because it's a stereo jack...
Keep experimenting though. There are countless ways to set up and modify these fine pieces of gear.
Jimmy J
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Ok, i understand now.
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I'm almost certain that these parts were from Entwistle's tech.
Bang on, as usual. I was at a guitar show on Saturday and the auction house i got these bits from had a stand and i mentioned the stash i got and they confirmed it was all John Entwhistles stuff. The alembic stuff was brought in by someone from the WHO, and it was in the confidentially agreement that no mention of it's origin was to be mentioned until after the auction had finished.
So i have a real piece of rock history and using it. His In-2 in my bass rack and pickups in my shorty.
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That is super cool! You also have several "spares" of the FET and the discontinued original flat-pack op amps in that stash. I'm surprised Mica hasn't made you an offer on those. :D I think it's just great that this gear has found an owner who can USE it rather than ending up in a Hard Rock Cafe somewhere.
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Very cool! Somewhere up there John is smiling.
Bill, tgo
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I had the IN-2 that I got at the GH auction gone over and sorted by Neil Perry, and it's looking and performing vastly better than it did when I bought it.
I'll be selling it very soon I guess, as I've no real use for it now - I've sold off the last of my proper bass gear, and am sticking to guitar for the foreseeable.