Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: Joseph Robert League (jleague) on November 23, 2002, 12:15:57 PM
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Alembic makes such unbelievably high quality guitars. Why does Alembic then use Japanese-made Gotoh tuners instead of Schallers or some other high quality brand? I know it's just a detail, but if you pay in the tens of thousands for a guitar, why not have the best of everything?
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I just had this conversation with Mica a week or so ago and she told me that Alembic had originally used only Schaller tuners, but at some point there was a serious shortage of new Schaller tuners. They ended up using the Gotohs as they were modeled after the Schallers and found them to be preferrable in certain aspects.
1. They have a finer tuning ratio which allows more precise tuning
2. The should last longer as the gears are made of steel rather than brass.
In any case I believe the Schaller tuners are available on custom orders for a minimal upcharge.
Matt
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I did not see Schaller tuners listed in the options on the guitars I have been pricing. I believe they would do it though because they seem to be open to whatever feasable options a customer wants.
I do, however, consistently see Schallers offered on most high end hand-made guitars and would probably go with them myself. I have no familiarity with the Gotohs and havent heard much about them so Id be hesitant to not go with what is generally regarded as a top notch brand.
It could be the case however though, that Gotohs are better, just have never heard that before. Id most likely trust Alembic with their decisions though.
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Schallers are listed as an option in Chrome, Gold, and Black on the custom quote generator for $200 retail. Machine heads and tuners are interchangeable.
Matt
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I have 8 Alembics and only 2 have gotohs. I always ordered my basses buit with Schallers. My new custom Excel has gold gotohs. They keep their position and I've put the bass in a bag a day after I tuned it and took it to a gig and it was still in tune. That says something about the product. You can order Schallers but as Mica told Matt, they are not always available when they are needed. Mica always tries to make sure that the customer gets what they want. Initially I only wanted Schallers, but having experienced Gotohs I would use them and save the cash. Perhaps put it towards an upgrade? Either way do what makes you fell happy and comfortable.
Danno
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I have had all brands of tuners on various guitars and basses over the years. If you get one the main 3 brands(Grovers,Schallers,Gotohs) you'll be fine. I wouldn't blow $200 on tuners. I would use towards something else.
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We use Schallers on request, and find them to be of nearly equal quality to the Gotohs.
Matt is referring to a time when we were back on Foley Street. Nobody could get Schaller tuners, and all the distributors were out of stock. We were really not excited about the Gotohs at first, dismissing them as a Japanese copy of a Schaller. But after testing them we were really impressed, and have used them ever since.
Since we know we'll be using a lot of tuners, we order them from the factory and have our decorative A on the back. We always list it as either a Gotoh or Alembic-Gotoh tuner. I've seen other makers do this, and not always reveal where the tuners are actually made.
We have customers that even supply their own tuners, some of which are extremely expensive handmade creations. I'll have to find out the details of Paul's custom Series II guiar tuners.... I think these cost him about $500 for the set.
The tuning machine is one of the few parts we don't make ourselves... who knows, maybe someday!
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Alembic makes such unbelievably high quality guitars. Why does Alembic then use Japanese-made Gotoh tuners instead of Schallers or some other high quality brand? I know it's just a detail, but if you pay in the tens of thousands for a guitar, why not have the best of everything?
Because Gotoh make the best tuners for the money? They are incredibly smooth and accurate and compact. I will be getting them on my order when the time comes, with no hesitation.
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Welcome zortation,
I just have to smile at you responding to a thread from 2002,
14 years...that must be some kind of record :D
play healthy,
Elwood
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"It's alive, it's alive, a franken-thread!"
FWIW, my Persuader has Gotohs, and my Distillate has Schaller tuners. All work smoothly, and hold just fine, though I believe the gear reduction may be a little finer on the Gotohs. The Custom fretless currently in the queue (I think) is coming with Schaller M4 Lites.
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I was wondering why the first posts in the threads were all from "guests"!
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Interesting ! A " guest " can post .
Wolf
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Anyone remember the yahoo board?
It was a great day when the Wickershams brought Alembic.com to all of us ;D
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I've been consistently disappointed with Schallers. Gotoh makes a fine tuner. I also like the Hipshot tuners. I think we have lots of excellent options these days.
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I tried some JinHo locking tuners on a recent build. They are Grover copies and only cost around $35! They seem just as well made and functional as my Sperzels and Schallers which also employ the locking wheel mechanism.
I also recently purchased a set of Hipshot open gear locking guitar tuners. I haven't mounted them yet, but they look sweet and have an 18:1 ratio.
Graph Tech has a set where each tuner has a different ratio, ranging from 12:1 to 39:1, depending on the string. They sound interesting, anyone around here ever tried them?
Bill, tgo
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Welcome zortation,
I just have to smile at you responding to a thread from 2002,
14 years...that must be some kind of record :D
play healthy,
Elwood
Oh...missed that. Ah well
:P
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Back in the 70's and 80's, Schaller surely set several world records for being back-ordered on just about anything you could want from their catalog. They were very big on the OEM side of the business (IF you were a very big customer, Gibson was their meal ticket for years), and very thin on the jobber side. While they still make excellent products, that style of business opened the door for Gotoh in a big way. Grover has always been asleep at the switch despite obvious classics like Imperials. These days with HipShot and others, Schaller is just not the monolithic only-game-in-town they once were, and in my experience, Gotohs are equal.
Over my years looking over the counter, a good 90% of walk-ins with the complaint, 'this #&&%#*@ thing won't stay in tune' was caused by simply not knowing how to properly string the instrument, and in the other 10%, I've never seen any brand's sealed / gear-driven keys fail.
Joey
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There is more than gear ratio to consider on your machines. Schallers have a small barrel to wind your strings on, so up take maybe the same on their 12:1 ratio as a 20:1 ratio of a Gotoh large barrel machine. I prefer the larger barrel, as I seem to break less strings on them. I prefer Gotoh tuners on my Alembics as they switch out with Hipshot Ultralites with no modifications what-so-ever. Schallers have a much small mounting hole, so they are not switchable with Gotohs. Just FYI. Everyone has their own prefs.
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Interesting zombie thread (back from the dead). I am out of town and not sure what is on my Distillate. I do know (pardon the politico speak) that Japan is preferred over China anytime with me - that is simply based on my 1981 Yamaha XJ650 Maxim; it was/ is a finely engineered machine to the point of being impressive with all of the well thought out details.
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My '83 Distillate Exploiter has Schallers. Know what I got a kick out? They are stamped "Made In W. Germany."
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There is more than gear ratio to consider on your machines. Schallers have a small barrel to wind your strings on, so up take maybe the same on their 12:1 ratio as a 20:1 ratio of a Gotoh large barrel machine. I prefer the larger barrel, as I seem to break less strings on them. I prefer Gotoh tuners on my Alembics as they switch out with Hipshot Ultralites with no modifications what-so-ever. Schallers have a much small mounting hole, so they are not switchable with Gotohs. Just FYI. Everyone has their own prefs.
Nothing a cello reamer can't handle in 20 minutes or so.