Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Swap Shop and Wish Lists => Seen on craigslist, eBay, and elsewhere => Topic started by: BeenDown139 on December 14, 2020, 04:52:41 AM
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since i'm not totally immersed in alembic/grateful dead history, maybe someone could shed some light on this listing that just popped up:
https://reverb.com/item/37715592-the-joker-jerry-garcia-custom-pre-alembic-1970-natural
gotta be something special for USD $888,888.88 + 350 shipping. anybody?
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It popped up on eBay a few years ago, interesting discussion ensued here http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=11010.msg125798#msg125798
That was 2012, in 2016 we hsd another sighting http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=21964.msg222220#msg222220
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I've been fascinated by that guitar. Still no provenance, but very little doubt about its ancestry. Maybe that isn't the right word either... there must be dozens of unattributed experimentals and shopnights, but there's something about that one that makes me wonder if it might have slipped out the back door of the Chicken Coop. It is definitely old. That construction itself dates it. It was definitely not a first attempt at guitar-making either... that is some serious joinery. That nobody who should know will claim to remember the guitar... is just... odd. :-\
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$350 for shipping is outrageous.
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First thing I thought of when I saw that today.
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Still no provenance, but very little doubt about its ancestry.
But, according to the listing, "providence from almost a dozen luthiers from the old days !" (emphasis on both quotes added).
It looks like a really sweet guitar - but the listing is just one long string of bovine by-product; I mean, apprentices from Irwin's shop pre -Alembic? I do believe the seller is counting on most people not knowing any more than he does.
Peter
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Amen to bovine by-product. ;D (I'm gonna' use that a couple times today, Coz!) But every single ad that guy runs reads kinda' like a ransom note. He does have a very cool guitar. It has a name engraved on the tailpiece. John Cale? Whozat? Owner, maker, driver of the getaway car? Somebody somewhere knows.
*note that the name is blurred in recent pictures. Intentionally, I suppose.
No way is it pre-Alembic, as in, pre-1969. I seriously doubt even pre-'72. I'm guessing 1973-'75, just based on other guitars known to be 'providenced' from that time. <snicker>
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Somebody needs to tell the lister their "8" key is stuck.
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the devil's in the details, as they say:
SHIPPED FROM:
Rock MEd Dr Brainz
Seattle, WA, United States
Joined Reverb
2020
Predicted to Sell Soon
Only 1 available and 4 other people have this in their carts
to resurrect a term from back in the days of usenet:
oh, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Amen to bovine by-product. ;D (I'm gonna' use that a couple times today, Coz!) But every single ad that guy runs reads kinda' like a ransom note. He does have a very cool guitar. It has a name engraved on the tailpiece. John Cale? Whozat? Owner, maker, driver of the getaway car? Somebody somewhere knows.
*note that the name is blurred in recent pictures. Intentionally, I suppose.
John Cale? Really? I missed that. So the seller is pimping a bogus Dead connection when there's a Velvet Underground reference right on the instrument?
Curiouser & curiouser.
Peter
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Under a mil for a guitar that is not only over 50 years old (yes, pre-Alembic and made by Doug Irwins’ apprentices BEFORE Doug even learned how to build guitars at his kitchen table ... WOW that’s rare) but has been “played by really great musicians!” However, he should really lower the price a little as it will need to have the electronics fixed. The seller admits that even when you turn the pre-amp up, you still can’t hear the Montreal Symphony. I wonder how much the “hear the orchestra” upgrade will cost?
Seller also says this would make a great present, so if any of you want to show me some appreciation for all of my entertaining posts ....?
Bill, tgo
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Interesting guitar! That's quite the elevator shaft going down the middle of it! I like the big connectors that look like you could swap out the entire pickup assembly in just a minute or two.
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Here's (http://alembic.com/club/messages/395/145831.html?1356044716) an old thread.
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Coz, check your post #1358 in the thread Bro. Elwood linked.
...memory like a steel trap I tell ya'. Now, if I could just remember where I leave things in my shop. ::)
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Coz, check your post #1358 in the thread Bro. Elwood linked.
...memory like a steel trap I tell ya'. Now, if I could just remember where I leave things in my shop. ::)
Well slap my a$$ & call me Sally, whadda ya know? I knew I'd seen this one before, but no memory of commenting on it.
Peter
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Immediately after I purchase the joker iIll need to buy the Ribbecke Four Elements Wind arch top for $999,033 and then the Ribbecke “The Tree” Electric at $999,998. The Joker is cheap compared to those.
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Immediately after I purchase the joker iIll need to buy the Ribbecke Four Elements Wind arch top for $999,033 and then the Ribbecke “The Tree” Electric at $999,998. The Joker is cheap compared to those.
I saw those. There are two others at the same price. I'm thinking that price has to be a placeholder.
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I don’t know about being placeholders. they are from THE TREE 🌲 ;)
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price update:
888,938.88
+$350Shipping
Predicted to Sell Soon
Only 1 available and6 other people have this in their carts
if you'd jumped when it was first listed, you could've saved $50 USD, don'tcha know.
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Well, I speak only for myself, but I am only interested in discussing the guitar... this world is full of strange folks. I know, because I'm one of 'em.
The guy has something very unusual, probably unique, and the price is just a number. I don't think he honestly expects to get it. Probably doesn't know what to realistically ask for the thing. I do think the instrument is FOR SALE. It would be more easily saleable if one knew what it was. Which is part of his problem... he doesn't know for sure. And nobody who wants that kind of guitar is going to shell out five figures (much less six) for a guitar they can't authenticate. I read the old posts and ads... he's talked everybody to hell and gone that should know, with the notable exception being Alembic, (and for all I know he may have talked to them too, still came up empty-handed) and posted their replies. They all shrugged and said something to the effect of; wudden me, go ask so-and-so. Jerry Garcia, Grateful Dead connection, how? Other than obviously being built by someone well-schooled in California luthiery of the early 1970's. Tailpiece inscription says "Custom made for John Cale". If it was referring to the same person, that was Velvet Underground. Slightly different band. Unless I missed it, not even mentioned this time. Why?
Like I said - I'm only interested in learning about the guitar. I want to know more about it. It's like, the fourth or fifth time we've seen it here, and still it is a total mystery.
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The guy has something very unusual, probably unique, and the price is just a number. I don't think he honestly expects to get it. Probably doesn't know what to realistically ask for the thing
i'm with ya 100% on this one. it's obviously a very unique piece and probably has many stories to tell. what i object to is the hucksterism and name-dropping to make it larger than life in hopes of hooking a sucker. the $888K+ price is certainly eye-catching. over the last year, there's been a small parade of very questionable over-priced high-end instruments up for sale. i didn't really pay too much attention to it until i was in the market earlier this year for an upgraded instrument and had to wade my way through pages of this kind of crap. it was my contention then that if you really want to see what the market value of something is, put it up for sale in a no-reserve auction and let the masses decide. that's how i sold my last bass and i did OK, but i was prepared to take my lumps. apparently that mode of thinking has gone out of style.
so yeah, it's a really cool guitar (this coming from a bass guy). but absent any verifiable provenance, maybe it's worth a couple of grand. maybe it's time for the seller to face reality. good luck with that. otherwise it makes an entertaining target for the nattering nabobs of negativity (of which i'm a card-carrying member).
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Hey, come on, this guitar has 'Providence' (not provenance). It would of course be very providential for the seller if it sold for the asking price. Personally I would love to find a guitar like this, at an estate sale, for a couple thousand bucks.
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I imagine if the seller dropped the 2 left-most 8s, it'd sell in a heartbeat (drop all 3 that side of the comma & I'd buy it today, domestic tranquility be damned!)
Peter
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Only updating to offer that this isn't a Brian Smith/Hyak so check that one off the list.
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Thanks for the input, Mica. Those wood backplates and the general headstock shape made me wonder if it was an early evolution of his work. What an oddity.
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well whatever happened, it's all moot now:
$945,000
+$600Shipping
Listing Suspended
first time i've seen an asking price go up over time, shipping as well.
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So long Joker, whatever you are, whence-ever you came... see you again some other time. I reckon about 2023. ::)
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There's a post from someone on the "Alembic Musical Instruments Fanpage" with lots of pictures, asking if anyone knows anything about it. Rick Turner responded, suggesting it may have been made by Alan Thompson, but only because he and a few other people have eliminated anyone else. Can't link to it and it's a closed group.
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Turners reply was interesting including the information that said Mr. Thompson apparently has a reputation for “finding” parts with which to build his guitars from the companies for which he formally worked and that since he has passed away there really isn’t going to be a definite answer to the question “did you build this and for whom” unless witchcraft is involved.
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The modular pickup section is intriguing.
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Thanks for posting-in with the extra info Harry and Brian, every little piece helps. Alan Thompson seems as good a suspect/guess as any. (Yep, that sounds like a classic RT answer... ;)) Thompson was mentioned in another recent thread as a candidate for having built a mystery guitar Stephen Stills is pictured playing. Like the "Joker" here, it has all the hallmarks of the early 70's NorCal School. http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=25835.0
There is just something about this one though... the Omega-cut, the symmetrical horns, the extra backstraps on the headstock behind the scarf, the high-relief carve of the top. Somebody went to a lot of care building this guitar, and I can't help but think it was either a commissioned job, or a built-for-personal-use. Maybe we'll find out one day.
*FWIW, and not that I care, but the 'Suspended Listing' has been lifted, the guitar is back up. The ad has been edited, and now says something about raising money for charities. Also includes a quote from Doug Irwin claiming- "I like this guitar." (Yeah, I like it too, but unless Irwin liked it because he built it, I don't think that helps his case much) Wow.
Dear Santa... there's this guitar I like... I don't know how your schedule looks for tonight, but, uhhh... I've been pretty good this year. ::)
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I was reading really old threads this weekend, ran across this one: https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=842.0
...and immediately thought about the mysterious The Joker guitar again. Did anyone ever ask Mark Johnson about it?