Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: Pete si on November 06, 2020, 03:30:34 PM
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I’ve looked all over the site and I don’t see anything on pedals. Does anyone out there use pedals? If so, what kind and why would you use them?
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Hey, Pete! I really don't use pedals "as such", but I do use a rack-mounted reverb/chorus thing made by Lexicon. (MX-200). I only play along with records these days, so I much prefer not bending over (I'm getting too old for that, anyway!) plus the on-off switch racket always bothered me. It's got lots of other effects too, but I haven't played around with them that much. Good question!
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I use a pedalboard in this chain order and pedals:
- Boss LS-2 (line selector with 2 parallel sends to)
> Boss OC-3 (1 octave down)
> Way Huge Conquistador (Gated Fuzz)
The ideia here is being able to select just Octave or just the Fuzz signal, as combining them as Fuzz + Clean (OC-3 bypassed), Octave + Clean (Fuzz bypassed) or Octave + Fuzz simply switching routing options at LS-2.
Or simply bypass both before sending to a
- Snarling Dogs Bootzila Bass Wah (Bootsy Collins signature wah)
- Electro-Harmonix Q-Tron (envelope filter)
- Malekko Phase (phaser)
- DBX 163 (half rack compressor)
- DMT bass preamp (microtube darkglass clone)
- Boss CE-3 (Chorus)
I use compressor and preamp as an "always-on base" to an almost clean tone (just a little overdriven to compress a bit more and add a little hair to strongest notes). The compressor gain reduction on clean tone doesn't exceed more than -3dB, but is really usefull when using the other effects.
All other effects are intended to get me different synth like tones. I think the octaver and fuzz as my wave generator along the bass itself. The Wah and QTron are my filters and the Phaser and Chorus are the oscilators of this "synth".
For some years I intended to get a delay to use after a reverb (yes, I like this way more) at chain's end, but I don't have more space in board to any new pedal and really never succeded in playing with them, so they are out until I learn better ways to use them.
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I use the compressor in this position to tame a little the Wah and Filter resonant peaking boost and to bring the phaser a little forward. If my phaser had volume control I would use it after preamp/overdrive.
Except for the chorus, which I don't use that much, all effects where chosen due to their good lowend response. I also have a TC Electronic Hall of Fame (reverb) but can't find a use to it, a SolidgoldFX BETA (bass overdrive) that sounds too distorted and too bassy for my alembicised taste, so both are retired by now (Bassy... is this a word?). The BETA is one of those pedals that doesn't "like" active basses as many fuzzes and distortions driven by germanium transistors. That was how I learned to not buy anything without testing it with my bass first...
I also use the DSM OmniCabSim Deluxe which is an analog cabinet simulator that enables me to taylor a "cab" response and resonance to my taste and use its DI to send it to feed sound reinforcement. That way my amp is just my personal monitor and I can tweak it as I need without messing with what audience will hear and engineer doesn't have to "create" or add nothing to my bass tone (because is so boring having to explain that some basses doesn't need to sound as a P-Bass all the time).
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I use a little pinch of modulation here and there, but that "almost clean" is really my main tone 80% of the time or more.
Despite my Bootsy/Graham idolatry, bass effects are not everyone's first choice (or every producer's or every band mate's choices either). But what would life be like without challenges, right?
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If you are interested in opinions from a guitarist’s perspective, I use several pedals and have tried a bunch more. But I can’t offer much that is bass specific. Let me know if I can answer any questions.
Bill, tgo
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I don't use any on bass, but for my alembic guitar i use a boss LS-2, radial trimode for overdrive and distortion, univibe chorus, micro Qtron, custom audio electronics wah and crybaby that i use as a tone control. I might add that mostly I use just the clean sound of the guitars.
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Wow! I actually didn’t expect so many replies. I’ve always thought the alembic tone was fantastic on its own. I have to admit I don’t understand much of Mario’s reply but I thank him for it. However, I do understand completely growlypant’s reply. I’m in the same boat. Too old to bend and just playing along with records.
I am considering trying a compressor and an EQ Pedal just for fun. All my playing is just for fun now. Thank you guys for your replies. Much appreciated.
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I’m pretty much of Peter’s ilk in the sense that the main reason I play Alembics is because I love the tone. If I was to show up for practice or a gig with 20% of what Mario uses I’d be shown the door by my Newgrass band mates. In fact, Mario’s list of pedals reminded me of a paper I’m currently writing on the use of polypharmacy by service providers as a means of restraint with people with intellectual and developmental disabilities.
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Thr Strymon Bigsky reverb is amazing on fretless
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I'd love to have a Strymon.
I use the MX400 and the reverbs are very satisfying. The stereo detune setting makes for a nice thickening.
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Pedals always. I use every kind of pedal, all modulations, fuzz overdrive, delay, reverb you name it. Its the same board for Bass and Guitar I don't notice any freq loss on either. Mostly DIY.
And loopers too, always at least two, usually 4.
Les Claypool is my effector inspiration. He's a master of poignant effects application in songs.
An effect can change the mood or expression in a line, or add an ambiance to a progression, and keep things dynamic and fresh.
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How did I miss this thread?!! I love effects. I have an old Boss PQ-3B Bass Parametric Equalizer that I dusted off and have been using while I practice - I'm also mainly just playing along with music these days. I also always use a compressor - mine is a Custom Audio Electronics V-Comp tube compressor.
If you get a compressor, I suggest you get one that shows you when it's compressing, whether it's a single light that lights up or a meter like on the MXR bass compressor (https://www.jimdunlop.com/mxr-bass-compressor/) - that way you will really know when it's activating. It can also help with technique, helping you play more consistently. EQ & compression actually aren't that exciting, but they can be powerful tools.
I also like octave down, envelope filters, phasers, and distortion! But that's usually for my solo stuff, not so much with a band. Though it's nice to be able to try and mimic the stuff I'm playing along with, like Sneaking Sally Through the Alley or something like that. That whole triptych - Sailing Shoes/Hey Julia/Sneaking Sally by Robert Palmer is great fun to play along with!
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...Though it's nice to be able to try and mimic the stuff I'm playing along with, like Sneaking Sally Through the Alley or something like that. That whole triptych - Sailing Shoes/Hey Julia/Sneaking Sally by Robert Palmer is great fun to play along with!
No pedals for me but I have also been playing along with the same Robert Palmer triptych lately...
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Gosh Pete, I didn't mean to confuse or bore you. I was detail oriented that much just to allow you to understand why and how I use certain pieces of gear (despite my little command of the English language), I am sorry if it sounded obscure.
At the end of the day I think the point is just "what tone do I want to get from my Bass" or "what sound do I have in my head". Then it will be possible to discuss which ways you can employ to get there.
I don't use pedals because I want to, I use them because there are certain sounds that I wouldn't be able to obtain otherwise. It is not an assessment of how a bass should sound or not and all that whole (and boring) issue of "pure sound" when it comes to electric pickups and tube amplifiers.
I use equalizer and preamp simply because I want the audience to hear what I do at my corner on stage and I know that the direct signal doesn't sound like the sound coming out of an tube amplifier, especially in larger venues with large sound reinforcement systems (two amps doesn't sound the same so we can't expect people hearing the same tone seated far way and listening through gigantic cabs). I use the compressor just because I alternate between techniques and I need the levels to be minimally leveled with each other so that they don't hear the Slap louder than Pizzicato. If I am playing in a smaller venue I'd probably use just the amp, because it already compresses, equalize and saturate by itself.
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Harry, you are the guy who turned me on to ZVex Fuzzes... the Mastotron is in my Christmas wishlist.
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I've been using pedals for years. In my current rock band I always have a little grind from one Bass Soul food with another soul food there to add some snarly distortion for a Chris Wolstenholme feel. I add chorus to quite a lot of our own material (cos that's what they want to hear) and have an envelope filter for the very few occasions that I need a bit of 'wop-wop'. Just added an echo/trem but so far we've not found anything to use it on - during lockdown it's been a blessing having something to occupy the mind. Here's a pic of my current board. The J-Clamp is hiding my DI and the tuner is on there for rehearsal rooms where I'm not using my rack with the Mesa amp and Korg tuner.
Graeme
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Graeme, talk a little about the delay, a effect that I love but always have a hard time to find a good way to use them.
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I can never get delays on my guitar board to sound right so took it off. They either sound like a rockabilly slapback or the repeats are off the beat. So there must be a tip for getting them set right. I'm all ears
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Mario. So far I've just been playing with the delay to see what I can do with it but we don't currently have any songs it would fit into. There is a rumour the guitarists have been listening to pink floyd during lockdown so there's a chance they may write something that needs it or get the band to learn 'One of these days'. The tremeloe button is more likely to be useful in places where the chorus doesn't sound quite right but I still need that 'wobbly' effect. There's a 'swell' function if I hold the button down that sounds a bit like an organ sound that one of the guitarists thinks should be used at the climax of every song! I'm quite lucky in my current band - they love the bass to be doing something away from the root AND want it to be heard on stage. Not once have I been told to turn it down or play fewer notes.
Graeme
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I find that a delay set at a minimal delay can fatten up the sound of single note leads.
Bill, tgo
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I love pedals, although my current gig doesn't call for many of them. These days I have a Micro-Tron (still deciding between III and IV), a Thick Air (sounds amazing with my Starfire), a Future Impact synth pedal and a Turbo Tuner ST-300. I'm looking for a good delay-reverb pedal. My gold standard for that is Lexicon. I used an MPX G2 for a long time and it was great, if a little cumbersome to program. Excellent envelope filter, once you tweak it right, perfect octaver/pitch shifter with low latency, amazing delays and reverbs, with the ability to put additional effects in the feedback loops, tap tempo, etc., and that great Lexicon tone. Finally, it became somewhat unreliable and no one really wants to work on them. Maybe I'll resurrect it.
I tried a Fractal FX8 for a while, but it's noisy and does some not so nice things to the tone. Probably not so much of a problem if you are using amps and speakers instead of IEMs. It is quite versatile and the programming is cool.
I used an Eventide Eclipse for a while, but the sounds didn't really grab me. The reverbs were sort of cold sounding and many of the effects weren't very useful. I really wanted to like it. Also, for some reason, which seems to be very common, there was no spillover for reverbs and delays.
I've got a bunch of other pedals I'd like to resurrect, including Brad Sarno's Earth Drive. Definitely check his stuff out: https://www.sarnomusicsolutions.com His Classic Tube Preamp is another take on the Fender Showman/Twin arrangement and sounds great (I have serial number Demo-A). His Revelation preamp is the pinnacle for pedal steel and his various load boxes are cool, too. At some point, I want to try to V8-G octal tube preamp.
Here's my old rack, prior to the MPX-G2. It had a monster pedal board accessed by the patchbay with a Mutron, Whammy, various distortion pedals, and a Morley Power Wah/Volume.
My latest device is a Backbeat (https://getbackbeat.com). No more cabinets on stage for me! A total game changer.
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I can never get delays on my guitar board to sound right so took it off. They either sound like a rockabilly slapback or the repeats are off the beat. So there must be a tip for getting them set right. I'm all ears
You need a delay pedal with tap tempo, as well as modulation.
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I can never get delays on my guitar board to sound right so took it off. They either sound like a rockabilly slapback or the repeats are off the beat. So there must be a tip for getting them set right. I'm all ears
You need a delay pedal with tap tempo, as well as modulation.
The NUX Atlantic on my board has a Tap function. Works quite well.
Graeme
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... I'm quite lucky in my current band - they love the bass to be doing something away from the root AND want it to be heard on stage. Not once have I been told to turn it down or play fewer notes.
Graeme
Relish this moment in time!
8)
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Hi, Mario. Thanks for the explanation. I understand now what you are doing. Your English is excellent btw.
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I've just realised (after re-reading Mario's post) that my NUX pedal is a Delay/REVERB (not tremeloe as I first stated). Doh!!
Graeme
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Great insights about delays, guys. Thanks (and what a impressive rack, Edwin).
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Hey Edwin, that is s serious rack set-up you have there. What type of gigs were you using that rack for?
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Eventide H9 Max … so much fun! ;D
Waiting for the Expression pedal to come in.
Then I probably NEED ::) a second one.
Cheers!
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Hey Edwin, that is s serious rack set-up you have there. What type of gigs were you using that rack for?
Everything, but mostly funk and fusion stuff.
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For me, pedals are the kind that go round and round as I ride my bikes. ;)
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Series I fretless through blue box power supply.
I use bridge pickup through a POG octaver then one side of stereo into a Delay/Looper
the neck pickup goes straight through to the other half of the Delay/Looper
Heaps of fun
Slawie
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This was just announced by Barefaced Audio...
https://barefacedaudio.com/products/machinist
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Was just checking in here to let everyone know about the new Barefaced pedal but Rob beat me to it. I am not a pedal guy but based on the quality, and amount of R&D that went into their cabinets I have a feeling this is a great pedal.
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Look similar to the Mutron Boostron III
https://www.mu-tron.com/mu-fx-boostron-3/
Bill, tgo
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I use a sf-2 and the only pedal that really works believe it or not is the Zoom B3 multi effects pedal with the dual comp effect.
Thee are a few songs that our band does where I use an envelope filter but it does not work through the Superfilter.
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Up to this point in my bass playing career I have never used pedals. I did try an octave pedal in a shop once and whilst the effect was cool, I didn't like how much of my bass sound was compromised when the pedal was turned off. If I was to use one I'd always want it to be like the SF-2 where I can keep the clean bass signal and add the effect to that.
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This was just announced by Barefaced Audio...
https://barefacedaudio.com/products/machinist (https://barefacedaudio.com/products/machinist)
Wow - that looks really cool. I still haven't found the ideal overdrive pedal - my old workhorse, the Fulltone Bass Drive, loses too much bottom end. The H.B.E. Hematoma is just too dark, there's like zero treble. The Foxpedal Killface looked so cool but sounded terrible to my ears. My current one, the SolidGoldFX Beta Germanium, sounds good but has TOO MUCH of a bass boost! I'm looking at a different pedal that has a dedicated bass knob, but this Barefaced pedal addresses the issue differently, with the clean signal with low-pass filter. I've imagined a pedal like this - ElectroHarmonix has one that comes close - but this looks like it does what I would expect. I'm not as interested in the fuzz - I love fuzz with resonant filter, but haven't been doing that so much lately.
Was just checking in here to let everyone know about the new Barefaced pedal but Rob beat me to it. I am not a pedal guy but based on the quality, and amount of R&D that went into their cabinets I have a feeling this is a great pedal.
Don't encourage me!
Up to this point in my bass playing career I have never used pedals. I did try an octave pedal in a shop once and whilst the effect was cool, I didn't like how much of my bass sound was compromised when the pedal was turned off. If I was to use one I'd always want it to be like the SF-2 where I can keep the clean bass signal and add the effect to that.
I wonder what octave you tried? Pedal makers have gotten better at allowing the true, original sound through when the pedal is off - some of the old ones can be pretty bad! You can always use a switchable effects loop to take the pedal out of the signal when you don't want it, but I've never gone that far. I'm not going to encourage you either, pedals can be a rabbit hole, though certainly cheaper than amps or basses! Actually, did you use pedals much as a guitarist?
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I used to use a bunch, mostly flangers/phasers and compression, but over the years mostly abandoned those and noss was just use a QTron, or nothing. The QTron is great.
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Depending on the band, but at least with Fuzzifer I use a ton of effects such as multiple fuzzes, ring modulator, delay, octaver, flanger and synthy stuff. The Alembic gives a very nice signal to all and is fun to mangle even though I love its clean sound too.
For softer stuff a slight touch of overdrive or chorus now and then.
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Hieronymous, Earth Dive by Sarno Music Solutions is pretty nice.
Hankster, I had a QTron, but couldn't figure out how to get it to make any sound, so I gave it away yesterday.
For classic fuzz I like my old Ross distortion pedal that I bought new in the 70s and it still works great :)
For Wha I like the Boss envelope filter from the 80s. (I have a Mini Mutron but don’t like it as much, has a high pitched quack that I can’t get rid of, and I prefer the warmer wha of the Boss)
I use an Older Boss octave pedal, I think it’s the same model that Tony Levin used on Peter Gabriel’s Big Time for reference.
I use these pedals mostly for guitar, but once in a while for bass.
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Up to this point in my bass playing career I have never used pedals. I did try an octave pedal in a shop once and whilst the effect was cool, I didn't like how much of my bass sound was compromised when the pedal was turned off. If I was to use one I'd always want it to be like the SF-2 where I can keep the clean bass signal and add the effect to that.
I wonder what octave you tried? Pedal makers have gotten better at allowing the true, original sound through when the pedal is off - some of the old ones can be pretty bad! You can always use a switchable effects loop to take the pedal out of the signal when you don't want it, but I've never gone that far. I'm not going to encourage you either, pedals can be a rabbit hole, though certainly cheaper than amps or basses! Actually, did you use pedals much as a guitarist?
As a guitarist I also didn't want to use many and for many years it was just a wah pedal and the distortion from my fender twin. However when I was touring the states in 92 I didn't take any effects and the band leader wanted me to use some so he sold me a zoom effects unit that fitted onto the strap of my guitar and the controller was double side taped to the guitar and I used that for the first one. However I stopped for most of the second tour because whilst the sound was good through headphones it was too thin and noisy on a big stage when turned up loud. So I bought the ProCo Rat from a music shop in San Diego and requested a Fender Twin valve amp for my stage rig and that worked great.
Moving on many years later when I was touring with an indian/reggae fusion artiste he again wanted lots of effects so I bought a multi effects line6 XP Pro Live which I eventually hated for it's tone sucking abilities but the band loved the sounds so I loved with it but bought a LS-2 to bypass it when I didn't need any effects from it.
I also took my Roland midi controller and pickup for UK dates for the Indian sound effects like sitar tabla and voice. I haven't used that Line 6 unit thing since about 2007.
These days my guitar gigging days are few but I still have an analogue effects board and I use a boss LS-2 to keep a clean output until I need effects. But saying that, most of my time I use just a clean sound, wah and, Radial Trimode pedal if I'm using an alembic guitar or ProCo Rat for passive guitars.
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LS-2, the bassist best friend!
I bought mine for this tone preserving purpose since my former Wha was a real tone sucker but since I've changed the Dunlop Bass Wha for a Snarling Dog Bootsy Wha, I use it kind as a mixer to get effects (fuzz and octave down) in parallel to my clean tone. A great way to add effects keeping your raw tone intact.
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Here's a question. If you decided to use mono effects effects on one pickup on a series bass, or guitar for that matter, and keep the other pickup clean. Is there any difference tonally if you have the outputs of each pickup going to two different cabs compared to combining the signals for example using stereo preamp like an F-2B, then going mono into a cab, or putting the bass into mono and having the effect work on a both pickups as mono signal?.
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I think it may sound a little different even if both cabs are the same, are stacked and uses the same amp and settings because loudspeaker suposedely will work differently not trying to reproduce both signal/frequencies/movements at same time. I don't know how different it could really sound but I can imagine there will be some differences that may increase if you change amps (as Chris Squire did with his rick'o'sound spliting bridge PU to a guitar amp) or just spread cabs away (since you'll be hearing different tone on each ear).
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<slightly off topic>
I don't know how different it could really sound but I can imagine there will be some differences that may increase if you change amps (as Chris Squire did with his rick'o'sound spliting bridge PU to a guitar amp) or just spread cabs away (since you'll be hearing different tone on each ear).
when my kit was at its peak, my main player was series II 5-string (other series basses starring in supporting roles). it was stereo'd from the DS-5 into an F2-B which then drove a stereo mesa boogie tube amp. The neck pickup channel went to an 18" bag end speaker, the bridge pickup channel went to a 2 x 10 sealed enclosure (a peavey, i think). i dimed the tone controls on the bass, tweaked the volumes to give me a good balance and used no effects. The optimal stage setup consisted of separating the speakers a foot or so. standing in front of it yielded a sound that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up. it took a lot of trial and error to get things voiced to my liking. it was definitely not an easy rig to schlep around. for smaller stages, i would stack the speakers which greatly diminished the effect. i never met an FOH guy who could get it right, i usually went mono to the PA. so only my bandmates and i (mostly I) could bask in the sonic splendor that rig produced.
so, if you've the parts to make stereo play for you, it's definitely worth it. better get a hand truck or hire some roadies to move it around, tho...