Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: jazzyvee on January 10, 2020, 04:46:38 AM
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I have recently joined a band playing Brazillian music, they have sent me the set list of about 30 songs to learn and we have a rehearsal next week. I have decided that I want to only play double bass in this band using my Classico as a way of forcing my learning of it and reading music. My progress is slow and whilst when I listen to the tracks I can hear the note to go for but can't always find it because no frets and different scale length to my electric basses. So I wonder if anyone here has any experience of playing this music and can pass on any practical tips, good practice routines, some music and bass players in that genre to listen to. I'm still a complete novice on DB so advanced stuff will just go over my head.
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How to play it?
Well, if it were me, I'd play it badly........
Peter (who follows that rule for all music, alas)
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Hey Jazzyvee,
Brazilian music is a beautiful combination of rhythm and harmony and I hope you have a great time with that band. I was lucky to have worked with a few Brazilian artists back in the day - Moacir Santos, Dori Caymmi, Sergio Mendes (sometimes more "pop"), and a couple times with Ivan Lins. Some of the best music I got to play.
I'll offer one pointer only because it was offered to me by Moacir when I first got into it... For the basic samba, it's all about the 2nd note. The bass player's job is to do what the surdo drum does and emphasize the (1/2 time) backbeat to keep things moving along. If you think of it in a quick 4/4, you can play a very short note on the downbeat and then a loud long note on beat 3, usually the 5 of the chord. It's slightly related to reggae in that it's not all about the downbeat. ;)
There are probably a million great examples online so look around for a few samples. That short note, long note samba thing has stuck with me and I've found myself doing it many times in music unrelated to Brazil. HA!
Jimmy J
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I love that stuff! Any chance you can post your set list?
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For the classic Bass as Surdo groove ideas check Luizao Maia with Elis Regina and Cesar Camargo Mariano.
Samba is played in 2/2 or 2/4 and, as Jimmy explained, the strong and long note is the Two while the One is always shorter or weaker (it can even be muted or avoided sometimes). This almost makes it feel like the bar shifted but this is the Samba syncopation.
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Ghost notes are also very important as here in this Joao Bosco tune:
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Jazzywvee, man Brazilian music is really the best. I would suggest to start with listening (Joao Bosco, Djavan (1 album), Rosa Passos, Eliane Elias, Ivan Lins etc.
But also check great bass players of Brazil.
Ney Conceição (great live concert by Joao Bosco called Obrigado Gente )
Nico Asumpção (Jaco of Brazilian bass playing) I'll post a link of live concert to hear him.
Artur Maia (great late bass player that played mostly with Gilberto Gil)
Marcelo Gilberto (son of Astrud Gilberto and Joao Gilberto)
Check this live!
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But Brazilian music is not just Samba and its hundreds variations. Forro, Xote, Xaxado, Embolada are some of the nothern rythms may cross your way. Here is Heraldo do Monte former Hermeto Paschoal guitarrist in the 70s:
2/4 the main beat hiting at the One and a completely different feel from the Samba. Hope they give you some ideas and, please don't do salsa on it, the clave is tottaly different.
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Jazzywvee, man Brazilian music is really the best. I would suggest to start with listening (Joao Bosco, Djavan (1 album), Rosa Passos, Eliane Elias, Ivan Lins etc.
But also check great bass players of Brazil.
Ney Conceição (great live concert by Joao Bosco called Obrigado Gente )
Nico Asumpção (Jaco of Brazilian bass playing) I'll post a link of live concert to hear him.
Artur Maia (great late bass player that played mostly with Gilberto Gil)
Marcelo Gilberto (son of Astrud Gilberto and Joao Gilberto)
Check this live!
Now you've surprised me Goran, ha. Yeah, these are the greats, indeed!
You may also like Jamil Joanes that also played with all those cats (Joao Bosco, Elis, Djavan, Ivan Lins). Check Banda Black Rio adding Funk to Samba.
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More Luizao (Big Louie), to hear a different aproach to the Samba
And a little of Chico Buarque de Holanda
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Samba has a complex polyrythmic "clave" based on the "Surdo de Primeira" basic beat (time keep on the second beat)
Other instruments can adorn and contrast it, like Tamborim, Pandeiro, Repique and Cuica, but there is the "Surdo de Terceira", another higher pitched bass drum that improve the botton syncopation.
You can use all these variations as long as you and the drummer preserve the basic beat. As in the Funk, you can do almost anything (as long you keep "the one", in Samba case, "the Two", haha).
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Hi Jazzy, my input would be - why choose DB when you play very good bass guitar and you are experienced in that. There is a danger of over complicating, I feel, and the beats you have to play will fit very well with BG. I don't play fretless - but see no difference. Get your sound as you do well on your most comfortable instrument and stamp your style on that music with confidence.
Glynn
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Mario thanks for posts! :)
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I agree with Glynn, I wouldn’t double down on the challenge of learning a new music AND negotiating a new fretboard landscape/ orientation.
When I got my double bass I picked up a lot of baritone and trombone practice music, real simple middle-school stuff found at half-priced book stores (Beatles, Christmas, pop tunes written for bass clef). Then I could work on my reading and left-hand position while Playing songs that I was familiar with - very easy to find where my weak areas were.
Paul (who has one Puntumayo Brazilian Lounge CD and now after sampling the videos above needs MORE Brazilian music in his life... it make me move funny, one hand in the air, one hand on waist and hips bouncing all around!)
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I'll be revisiting this thread to follow all those music links!
Jazzy, I concur with others--when you're trying to absorb a challenging new style (well, it seems like it to me, terminal Norte Americano that I am), don't throw yourself a curve by adding the challenge of playing it on upright from the get-go. Get comfortable with the material then add in the DB and I suspect it will go better overall. DB is a harsh mistress (says the guy whose DB and Messenger EUB have been languishing of late).
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I wish I knew! My technique is not up to it these days.
My location recording career seems to have narrowed in on utterly amazing Brazilian musicians who come through and play concerts in much smaller venues than they should (Ian Coury, Paula Santoro, Alessandro Penezzi, Cesar Garambini, Choro das Tres, Rogério Souza and Edinho Gerber, and a host of wonderful local Colorado artists). Every single one of them has not only been incredible soulful and virtuosic, but also the most wonderful people on earth. Boulder, Colorado has a great Brazilian scene.
At some point, the guy who produces these concerts and I will put together a compilation.
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Well a heartfelt thanks to everyone who has responded so far and I have taken on board the advice and listened to a lot of music on youtube. I went to a watch a band playing Brazillian music at the weekend in a really small coffee shop and watched the bass player like a hawk. Interestingly, most of what he was playing wasn't based on that second beat so maybe they were playing a slightly different flavour of the genre.
Anyway I survived the rehearsal last night and took your advice of taking my electric bass (Elan 4 with Double P pickups). I guess we went through about 8 or 9 tracks in the 3 hour session and they were happy at the end of it. I will most likely bring the DB down for a few tracks next week.
Thanks again.
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I recently started getting playing a couple brazilian and latin tunes in my jazz quartet. There is a lot of information on youtube that helped get me started.
Flavio Lira is pretty cool and looks stoned in his videos but is just high on Samba:
Jim Stinnett has some great videos at Real bass lessons on youtube: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCTLM0C5Acp-0xi4ZEb-mSQg/videos?flow=list&sort=da&view=0&itct=CBMQui8iEwio3dPfo9_VAhXJHAMKHTG_BS8%3D&gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google
At the end of the day though getting 1:1 instruction from someone is always the best way to learn...that is provided you can find a quality instructor.
I've found that most of the better players are happy to share their knowledge, Jazzy said he saw a brazilian group play, maybe hit that guy up for some tips.
Also, re: Jazzy saying he didn't hear the second beat being emphasized in the group he saw...Brazilian music is usually in 2/4 right? So if he was counting it in 4/4 that second beat would actually be counted as beat 3 if he was counting in 4/4. (I could be totally off on that too).
I like looking at notated examples of things...
Surdo patterns (written in 2/4) can be seen here: http://www.mycongaplace.com/instrument/surdo/index.htm
From one of the links above, Flavio Liras samba patters (written in 4/4) can be seen here. https://www.lessonface.com/sites/default/files/lessonface_samba_tutorial.pdf
Lastly, this book is a great resource..https://www.amazon.com/Latin-Bass-Book-Oscar-Stagnaro/dp/1883217113/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_1/144-0119425-7839179?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1883217113&pd_rd_r=6f51d4dc-d67a-4156-85ed-97d0178e2fe9&pd_rd_w=wx7JR&pd_rd_wg=SDnbd&pf_rd_p=5cfcfe89-300f-47d2-b1ad-a4e27203a02a&pf_rd_r=D3N76MRTDZDDEX7EVDH8&psc=1&refRID=D3N76MRTDZDDEX7EVDH8
Additional tips to get through all this that have been helpful to me the past few months of navigating this stuff...
1) Keep your lines simple and focus on what the rhythm is.
2) Practice the stuff slowly...starting at 60 BPM and work your way up in tempo. Frankly Im embarrassed to admit I never realized just how useful practicing things that slow can really be, it gives yourself a chance to digest whats going on and really feel things...
3) One other thing I've started doing is practicing some of this stuff on percussion instruments...I think it helps to just get your brain more in tune/in-sync with whats going on with these different styles. You don't have to go all out. A shaker, claves, etc...are a good place to start http://www.lpmusic.com/products/percussion/claves
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I've just got home from my first full rehearsal playing only my classico and it went well and from what I heard I was pretty much in tune with the piano. I did record some tracks on my ipad and that will tell me the difference between what my ears told me and the truth. Interestingly the band loved it and one of the first questions, which I'm sure many of us get asked when sporting an alembic. "How much did it cost?"
As it happens I never tell what I paid outside those who know alembics well, I just told them to do a search on line. Then it suddenly went quiet. hahahaha
Fortunately I got mine used. :-)