Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: David Houck on July 01, 2019, 09:27:57 AM
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I thought I would throw this out there just in case someone has what I'm looking for.
While I still haven't recorded anything worth releasing yet, my playing is slowing getting better, and my use of tone and effects are getting better; so there's been some progress.
To that end, I'm also working on improving the quality of my recordings. One thing I need for that is some reference recordings for comparison.
Many of you have heard some of the recordings I've posted here on the board and thus have an idea of the type of music I play. It's somewhat unique, so there's little that's similar. What I have found that's close is solo instrumental guitar music; and in that genre it's mostly acoustic.
I only need two or three recordings to use as reference material. Ideally the recordings should be professionally mastered and sound very good. And as mentioned, it pretty much needs to be solo instrumental guitar (no vocals, no drums, etc) (an example being Tommy Emmanuel when it's just him and not a duet). And the format needs to be lossless, like for instance FLAC.
I just figured trying to use mp3's for reference material is probably not a good idea.
Post here or send me an email if you have any ideas; and thanks for reading.
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I totally agree with not using MP3s. I don't have anything, but if you can find a good vinyl copy of John Hartford's Aero-Plane, "Presbyterian Guitar" is a wonderful solo acoustic piece.
Peter
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There's an artist called HB3 who plays piccolo bass - he has a few tracks on Soundcloud (couldn't get the embedded player to work so just links)
https://soundcloud.com/hb3/poseidon-fantasia-for-piccolo (https://soundcloud.com/hb3/poseidon-fantasia-for-piccolo)
https://soundcloud.com/hb3/a-fish-in-a-bowl-of-gold (https://soundcloud.com/hb3/a-fish-in-a-bowl-of-gold)
https://soundcloud.com/hb3/mysterious-stranger (https://soundcloud.com/hb3/mysterious-stranger)
I realize that the sound quality is not going to be great (I think their mp3s are only 128kpbs) but hope it's still useful as something relatively current. Finding high-quality audio online can definitely be a challenge, but I think even mp3s can be useful, since that's the end result that many people will here.
I also thought maybe, Michael Manring or Michael Hedges?
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There's an artist called HB3 who plays piccolo bass....
Who is (or was) a member here.
Peter
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I also thought maybe, Michael Manring or Michael Hedges?
Alex DeGrassi also has some nice solo guitar material.
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Yes, I used to listen to some of things HB3 linked here on the club.
And yes, I've considered Manring, Hedges, and DeGrassi, and I may start searching for something from them that will work. Like Harry said, the problem is finding a high-quality recording; but I could at least start with some mp3's.
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Another thing to consider is when the recordings came out - older recordings from 20-30 years ago will be much lower in volume than newer post-volume wars recordings. The older ones might sound better in a way, more natural rather than unnaturally volume boosted. Also consider whether they are AAD or DDD (do they even use those terms anymore?)
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A large part of which is the older stuff isn't so over-compressed (once saw a chart of scope readings of 3 or 4 reworked releases, over a couple decades, of the same Michael Jackson hit; dismaying how they went from the first - all hills & valleys - to the last - just one solid wall of blare).
Peter
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Another thing to consider is when the recordings came out - older recordings from 20-30 years ago will be much lower in volume than newer post-volume wars recordings. The older ones might sound better in a way, more natural rather than unnaturally volume boosted. Also consider whether they are AAD or DDD (do they even use those terms anymore?)
A large part of which is the older stuff isn't so over-compressed (once saw a chart of scope readings of 3 or 4 reworked releases, over a couple decades, of the same Michael Jackson hit; dismaying how they went from the first - all hills & valleys - to the last - just one solid wall of blare).
Yes, these are the considerations that I'm looking for, which is why I asked for audiophile type input. For this purpose I'm looking at loudness, compression, and EQ; the goal I suppose being that if you heard one of my songs in a stream of music within the same genre on Spotify, it wouldn't compare too unfavorably (although admittedly, my playing is not going to hold up next to Emmanuel, Hedges, etc).
This may all be for naught as I may never get my album finished, but the learning process is fun.
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I have Bob Katz's book: Mastering Audio: The Art and the Science, and have read it. It has more info on mastering than you can imagine.
Frankly, when I record, I use the 3 slider Wave's plugin for mastering and I think it works fine. A while ago I recorded a CD's worth of stuff for a local artist and it was sent to a high end mastering engineer. When I got the results back, I did an A - B comparison between my Waves plugin and the pro mastered version. I liked half of the ones better that I did with the Waves plugin. However, there may be things that translate better to various formats with the pro mastered version or other considerations I don't know about. In the days of 33 1/3 mastering was vital just to keep the needle in the groove. Today the home recording person has tools that are mind boggling to work with, if they know how to use them.
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While I don't have the book, I have read some of Katz articles (thanks Edwin!), and in them he seems to be saying that mastering should only be done by pros. I don't expect to be able to do anywhere near as good as job as someone who knows what they're doing, but I at least want to try and see what I might be able to accomplish. And yes, the available tools can do a lot, if I can learn to use them.
Just looked up the Katz book, and it's on the expensive side. I'm already reading a lot of online material, and I'll see how far that, and experimentation, can take me.
One advantage I have is that there's just the one instrument instead of a full band.
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The Waves L2 is on sale now for $69, but I have seen it as cheap on sale for $29 on occasion. It actually takes all of 10 minutes to learn the basics of the plugin. That is if you have a DAW that you can use it on.
The Katz book can be found on Amazon and EBay and at some used book stores. I don't think a person needs the newest version myself.
As far as mastering being done only by pros, well, that's what the pros will say. And the big recording studios (the few left) will tell you that home recording is never going to sound good. And the engineers with racks full of expensive analog gear will tell you that plugins are never good, and old timey studio musicians will tell you that the only good recordings are done by pros who don't overdub or slice and dice on a computer.
SoundonSound has a website full of great info. I like the Brit can-do-attitude a lot!
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Of course, nothing will Ever replace the Hammond B3 with a Leslie!!!
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Of course, nothing will Ever replace the Hammond B3 with a Leslie!!!
Or two......
The number of folks qualified to keep those gems running is fast dwindling; I pity those who will never stand on, or next to, a stage and feel a B3 through a Leslie or 12!
As to all the computer-based recording stuff: I am firmly convinced that digital is incapable of sounding as good as tape; it just can't do it, and analog is and always will be superior.
Then I remember editing with a razor blade..........
Peter
Then I remember editing with a razor blade..............
Peter
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Moving the B3 and Leslie was no fun!
Bill, tgo
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I occasionally play with a guy who has a B3 and Leslie. He always emphasizes that the B3 has wheels and the Leslie a cart. I always remind him that those don't help get them to the top of the stairs.
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Moving the B3 and Leslie was no fun!
Bill, tgo
I occasionally play with a guy who has a B3 and Leslie. He always emphasizes that the B3 has wheels and the Leslie a cart. I always remind him that those don't help get them to the top of the stairs.
I crewed for one band that carried a piano; not a keyboard, a spinet piano. Another carried a B3 & 2 Leslies, all in flight cases. Both bands regularly played a club in the Chicago 'burbs with a 6' stage, a joint in Springfield, IL, that was on the second floor and required a load-in up the fire escape (and, conversely, a load-out down it), and a place in Campaign, also 2nd floor, where the freight elevator worked about one in every 4 times. We considered the sound well worth the trouble.
Peter (who wonders if he's ever mentioned that he's had 2 back surgeries - so far)
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The Waves L2 is on sale now for $69, but I have seen it as cheap on sale for $29 on occasion. It actually takes all of 10 minutes to learn the basics of the plugin. That is if you have a DAW that you can use it on.
A few days ago I was watching an instructional video, which included among other things the Waves L2. The DAW I'm using is Reaper.
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There are a couple of benefits to using a good mastering engineer, the primary one is getting a pair of experienced ears on your recordings. It goes beyond application of a Waves L2 or equivalent (although I have to say I think the PSP Xenon is one hell of a limiter and it provides dither and Katz's K metering).
A good mastering engineer won't just put gloss on your tracks, they will also provide feedback and let you know what you can do to improve your mixes and recordings (mostly to put themselves out of work: a well recorded track needs next to no mastering).
A good mastering engineer will also have a very good room.
So, my suggestion is to book a session with a mastering engineer, bring your files and have them listen to them and give you feedback. Then, if they think they are good, do some work on them. By getting inside a session, the lessons learned will be extremely valuable in moving forward in creating your music.
Not sure what that has to do with a B3, but I hate moving those things too!
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Thanks Edwin! As I don't yet have any finished tracks, I'll keep that in mind until I do.
I helped move a few B3's over the years. Somehow they always seemed to involve stairs.
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There is a wooden dolly specifically made for them. Most gigging players leave it attached. When I bought mine from a Baptist church, I got 4 friends to help me move the sucker (stairs too). I set it up on a big flat bit of cardboard so I can easily slide it around to where I can get to the back. I don't plan on hauling it around!
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There is a wooden dolly specifically made for them. Most gigging players leave it attached. When I bought mine from a Baptist church, I got 4 friends to help me move the sucker (stairs too). I set it up on a big flat bit of cardboard so I can easily slide it around to where I can get to the back. I don't plan on hauling it around!
The aforementioned piano was on one of those dollies, and the flight cases had wheels.
Didn't help much on the stairs.......
(Well, the piano dolly did provide handles, so there's that.)
Peter (who will now cease derailing Dave's thread)