Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Showcase => Classico Upright Basses => Topic started by: jazzyvee on June 25, 2018, 01:35:44 AM
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As mentioned in an other post, I'm the new owner of this classico which is pretty similar to both George (Geepee) and Jon Jackson's basses.
it took a weekend trip to Germany to collect the bass from a seller whom i'd previously bought two series I Europa's from. He is a great guy and has a huge collection of custom high end basses that he is slowly selling off.
So in true alembic tradition, here are some photos. I am not fully qualified to operate a double bass at all, and having had just one lesson so far so it will probably be long while before I think I will have my intonation good enough to inflict my db playing to the fee paying public.
Those hippy biscuits, (i call them), are spacers for the feet of the bridge and are just held in place by the downforce of the strings. I tried one pair but the string height was high and made what little skills I have of playing it painful. The numbers I eventually realised are metric and in mm.
The bridge is also drilled for a Wilson acoustic pickup which the seller informs me is a high end db pickup system. He has offered to sell it to me but at the moment I just want to stick with the sound the bass has.
The case came with the bass and the way it fits I suspect it's an original case or one a previous owner has had made. I doubt a regular 3/4 double bass would fit.
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First in with Congratulations, Jazzy... that's just spectacular. 8) The twin to your new bass is just a few miles from me here in the U.S., but I have resisted going to see it, simply because I know what scheming will ensue if I do! https://reverb.com/item/3711147-alembic-classico
Those little shims are quite ingenious. When I set up upright basses for folks here, for steel strings, I strive to have about 7mm of clearance beneath the G, and 9mm clearance under the E string when measured at the end of the fingerboard extension. Sometimes I can get away with less, provided the neck geometry allows. I can also tell you, there is a LOT of difference in upright bass strings. I highly recommend something soft tension as you learn. Pirastro 'Obligato' are an excellent set, or D'Addario 'Zyex' light. (a bit more affordable) I know Innovation originates in the U.K.; they also offer a good selection of steels, but I only have firsthand experience with their synthetic gut strings.
I've often wondered - does the Classico have adjustable truss rods like other Alembics, or some type of graphite neck reinforcement?
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Hi thanks Gregory, that information about string clearance is gonna help as at the moment it's choking out at about high B on the G string so I need to raise the height of the bridge. Though the spacers seem to make things a bit high for me but now I have an idea of what is a decent string height I will try them again. It's been suggested a scale length of about 42" is normal.
As for the truss rod, I haven't seen any sign of one so I presume it's not really needed or does not need adjusting. The neck is a really sturdy structure and I guess a set neck.
To be honest a classico wasn't really on my radar but learning to play db was something I'd always wanted to learn. Then a while back I saw one which was in the UK at a seriously good price but my bass budget had been hammered by a then recent purchase of my redwood series I.
So I mentioned it to geepee here and he snapped it up like a good un. Subsequently it bugged me that I didn't throw caution to the wind and after a completely unrelated conversation with the seller of that redwood bass he told me he had a classico that he would consider selling if I was interested. No brainer! Now if that one on ebay is the going rate. I'm extremely happy with my bargain.
Soundwise when I my teacher played it he said it sounds like a cross between a fretless and double bass.
I don't know what the strings are but the silks are red so that may tell you something more than me. My previous acoustic db had d'addario low tension strings which I kept when I sold the db so I plan to try those out at some point to see if they are any different as I suspect the ones on the bass are have been there for a considerable time. Not that I know how long DB strings last.
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42" is a standard for double bass, though this can shift a little in either direction. Thomastik Spirocores have red silks... to be sure, look at the ball-ends. (T-I's will have roman numerals for which string they are...) They're very nice strings, but a little stiff for my liking. Strings for upright basses, particularly good quality strings, are ridiculously expensive, but they last for years, even with somewhat heavy use. I had a set of Pirastros on my main gig bass for 8 years. I only changed them 3 years ago. ;)
Again, Hats Off to you, Sir... that is a very classy instrument. 8)
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Here is a very short video clip oe me and my classico. I was practicing this morning and then trying to learn a track from a cd I have. So bear in mind I'm only on my second lesson so hope you enjoy the sound more than my attempt at double bass playing. :-)
https://youtu.be/yol0ZvppM8w (https://youtu.be/yol0ZvppM8w)
If i can paraphrase our resident alembic artise Jimmy Johnson”, I’m not licensed to operate a double bass. Ha” 🤫
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You're getting along just fine, Jazzy, doing all the right things there. Nice work. Playing an upright bass is a wrestling match compared to all other forms of established low-end. Hang in there. ;)
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Difficulties i'm finding at the moment are the transition to and from thumb position, my left arm has no stamina for long practice sessions, the action being really low makes it easy to play but when I played back this recording I could hear string slapping as i move up the neck which I hadn't noticed before when playing. Does that mean I need a lighter touch or lift the action?
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Afraid I won't be able to help or advise you with that thumb position playing... it's just something I have zero-sum experience with. (or current need for) About as far as I dare to travel up there is F or F#, or the occasional G octave for an effect. The strength will come. Raising the action will make it more difficult to play, so I wouldn't unless it was deemed absolutely necessary.
Your intonation is already very, very good. (have you seriously never played fretless!?) and your address of the instrument is spot-on. Someone is teaching you well.
Question: does your Classico have a removable 'rib' where the rear-ward upper bout would be on an upright bass? Most of the EUB's I've tried without one felt awkward... I always imagined Alembic would have thought of that. (I saw where George Price's Classico is drilled for some such attachment)
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Sakura! Is that a particular arrangement? I think I'm only really familiar with traditional Japanese versions.
Isn't the slapping sound part of the upright experience?
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Wow yeah Harry well spotted its from a trio album called Jazz in the garden with Stanley Clarke Lenny White and Hiromi Uehara.
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I don't have that one, will have to hunt it down.
Glad you're enjoying the Classico! Sounds good to me, even just on my computer speakers. I have found my Alembicized fretless Guild to be addictive - not sure if it's the bass or something about fretless - I bet you will find yours to be so as well
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Im hoping that track becomes my double bass live debut piece.
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Edward, from checking the strings, these must be Thomastic Spirocores. Phew that saves me some money.
No I've never played fretless bass, yes the bass does have a removable rear rib where the back of a regular double bass should be. Also thank you for your kind comments, I hope to be able to get a decent consistent sound from it.
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Just a quickie for those who play db. I'm looking for a bow and as well as the other variables regarding woods, frogs, german/French hair type etc, there are two sizes coming up in my searches 3/4 and 4/4 which I presume relates to the length of the horse hair. Which size should I be looking for as a beginner?
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Jazzy, the decision between a German, or French frog is one your teacher can advise you on... this has everything to do with grip type, and playing style. A 3/4 or 4/4 size is going to be a fractional difference of length of the bow stick. (and possibly width of the hair hank, though I can't imagine this being much)
As you'd expect, with higher quality bows, so goes the price. Best advice I can give is this: Try a lot of them. Bows are a very personal thing, and finding one that feels 'right' and balanced in your hand is quite critical. I have a nice one that was a gift to me years ago, and had been told it was a very good quality antique bow, of pernambuco, octagon stick, French frog, known maker, etc. One day I got to play with a modern carbon fiber bow, and WOW! It was a huge difference. So much easier! I almost wished I didn't know there was better out there.
Now, paging Casey Vancouver. :D
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Hi Edward, I expected a response from you quickly and I appreciate it. I did plan to email you but couldn't find your email address on your profile.
I have spoken with my tutor and he recommends French style bow and carbon fibre or carbon composite. Nothing said about the length of the stick so I presume that is less important and if the length difference is a few centimetres then that won't matter much to me as a novice and it is doubtful I will be running out of stick length anytime soon.
I had a couple of bows last week on approval to try out from a local Violin shop that makes, services and sells classical string instruments. One was wood and French and the other was Carbon composite and German style and I preferred the weight and balance of the carbon fibre bow and the French style.
So on the basis of the negligible difference I will just find a reasonable quality one and go for whichever length is the best price.
Thanks again.
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Hey Jazzy! Choosing a bow depends on what grip you prefer to use. Like edwardofuncote said "Try a lot of them. Bows are a very personal thing, and finding one that feels 'right' and balanced in your hand is quite critical". It took me a few years to find the right bow. My bow is French & it's slightly weighted;from the tip to the screw measures 27 1/2" & the Hair length(From tip to Frog) measures 22 1/8". The very 1st double bass I brought was an Engelhardt & I bought a German bow but I soon switched to French as my teacher Carl Torello suggested. But on youtube I've watched a few bassist use the German bow and they play "florid" passages with the same ease as a bassist that uses the French Bow. Edwardofhuncote has tweaked my interest in a carbon fiber bow & I'm going to go try one out!! Keep working out on that Classico & in no time you'll be getting around on it quite comfortably!!
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My teacher suggested French and a carbon fibre or carbon composite. hi Chalie, i think im making decent progress and quite impressed with how my intonation is improving. I record most of my practice sessions and listen back to how in tune I am. I recently started practicing with the ireal book and silencing the bassline so i can play along. I have a gig with my band in early march and have 500 miles high (RTF) and Sakura Sakura by Stanley Clarke trio on the setlist to push myself.
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Here are some links to the bass in the "Post a pic playing your bass" thread.
(http://club.alembic.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4104.0;attach=7906;image)
(http://club.alembic.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4104.0;attach=7908;image)
(http://club.alembic.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4104.0;attach=7904;image)
I'm not sure why they came across so large.....
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Very nice, Jazzyvee. How’s the upright playing coming along? Bet that sounds nice! :)
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Hey rv_bass, it's coming on slowly but surely some days most of my notes are off pitch and other days they seem to be bang on. I have started recording myself just on my ipad during some of my practice sessions and I can hear a lot of pitch correction going on. My tutor thinks I'm doing well in that respect but says it takes a while for muscle memory to get locked in. So I do try to play every day for a minimum of about 1/2 hr.
As for the sound, to me and the other bass players who commented at my gig, it sounds just like a double bass but fuller, has more sustain and cleaner. Well if it sounds like that with a beginner playing, who knows what it will sound like when I can really play it properly.
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That’s great, glad to hear it’s coming along well! I played string bass in the early 80s, it’s been quite a while and I miss it. Glad to hear you are enjoying the Classico, beautiful bass!!
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Hey, well I studies classical music on db, so I started with french style, while I went to high school on double bass, my other teacher played german style. It's all the same, no difference, just stick to one. But also, I know guys that can do both... so, decision is yours.
get the 3/4 bow, that mostly what people use in jazz and some classical, the 4/4 is longer and same as the double basses, they also come in 3/4, 7/8 as mine, 4/4 and 1/4 1/2 younger generations. 3/4 is almost usual that people use. The 4/4 is usually used in orchestra because it's massive, and has bigger sound (but also depends on double bass).
Btw. bowing.. check this guy Renaud man he sounds great
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Here is a pic from my second trip out with my classico and two other family members.
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That is a beautiful hall. Must be a great experience to play there... :)
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A bit of time free today so did some one take videos of my classico bass using my iPad and playing through my Phil Jones Briefcase combo with the eq set to flat.
Bob Marley & The Wailers Smile Jamaica
A snippet from Stanley Clarke's Bues for Mingus before the build up to the impossibly fast fun.
To Be Alive Stanley Clarke
A quick tour of the Classico
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Well done, Jazzy. Very natural and unforced. You are becoming a fine upright bassist. Your playing already displays a touch well beyond the amount of time you've been working at it.
Nice overview of the instrument too... I know good-n-well if I play one of those Classico basses, I'm going to want one. I mean... it has TWO OMEGAS! Twice the nice. 8)
*fixt hasty spelling... ::)
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Thanks for your kind words Ed, I am still on the steep part of the learning curve but less steep than it was a year ago. Joining the Brazillian music band has given me a visible target to work towards so is helping greatly. Sight reading is developing much more slowly though. 🎶🎵
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Very nice, Jazzyvee, sounds great!!! :)
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Just completed my 4th trip round the sun with this bass.
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In case anyone is interested I got this double bass stand as a birthday gift from my better half. I did order one myself during the covid lockdown period and the quality was pretty dire and returned it for a refund. But I contacted the company since then and seems they have improved quality control at their suppliers. It is sturdy and holds the bass securely. The elasticated cord is quite tight so I do wonder whether it will press the strings hard enough onto the fingerboard leave a groove in the rosewood. Maybe I will put some kind of padding between the strings and the fingerboard to minimise that.
Other than that it's pretty good.
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That looks tempting….. we haven’t had a real Earthquake up here since 2001 so maybe I’m due for a more secure stand. I can’t keep my Alembics in cases….they are too pretty! I may not play them every day but I do see them everyday.
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All mine are kept in their original cases except the classico, which until today has always been kept on a metal stand. This new one the bass takes up less floor space and is a bit further away from the wall in a corner that is quite cold in winter.
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I like the design, Jazzy... looks like a stable way to keep the Classico at home. I don't think the strings would actually work grooves into the fingerboard from just static pressure from the bands (?) that hold it there, but my OCD-ness would require something there. Probably a hand towel. That's what I usually keep on my upright bass stand now. (one of these)
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I have the same stand of my acoustic upright. Very secure. Except the bottom foam rubber that the late great feline, Simon (aka Pink Toes) chewed on! :-D
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Monday saw another trip round the sun with this.
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That is a work of art that I'm guessing sounds great too.