Alembic Guitars Club

Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: hammer on June 13, 2018, 10:21:02 AM

Title: Safe shipping
Post by: hammer on June 13, 2018, 10:21:02 AM
I'd be interested in member's suggestions regarding how I can safely ship by 76 fretless Series I back to the mothership for an electronics upgrade and refurbish.  It arrived in unlined/unpadded flight case and a well-padded gig bag that was quite moldy and remains so in spite of several attempts on my part to implement members suggestions.  Mica specifically requested that I not send in back that way as there are people at Alembic highly allergic to mold.  Although I have an extra Alembic Standard point, Series I case, it is not for a long scale bass.  I've been thinking about padding options and how to protect the neck but have yet to come up with anything I feel is safe. I'll be purchasing a new cases as part of the refurbish but would prefer to avoid the extra cost associated with purchasing the case and having it shipped empty to me.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: Zut8083 on June 13, 2018, 11:00:38 AM
Can you fly with the bass, booking far enough in advance, that you can afford an extra seat on a flight out to SF/Santa Rosa and hand-deliver the '76 fretless?  It may be a no-go and I'd hate for you to get two seats, and be told be the administration everything is A-OK, and then have someone on the plane tell you otherwise.  That sort of stuff seems to be happening a lot, lately.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/resources/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/47261/musical-instruments-tip-sheet.pdf
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: keith_h on June 13, 2018, 03:01:09 PM
Are you planning to replace the case? Maybe you could get a new hard shell from Alembic that they could send to you for shipping the bass back for the work. You should also be able to reuse the outer box and packing.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: mica on June 13, 2018, 03:04:36 PM
I will check if we have a duty case here - sometimes we do! You'll be on the hook for shipping, but it might be a good option. I'll let you know what we find.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: pauldo on June 13, 2018, 03:18:00 PM
Can you fly with the bass, booking far enough in advance, that you can afford an extra seat on a flight out to SF/Santa Rosa and hand-deliver the '76 fretless?  It may be a no-go and I'd hate for you to get two seats, and be told be the administration everything is A-OK, and then have someone on the plane tell you otherwise.  That sort of stuff seems to be happening a lot, lately.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/resources/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/47261/musical-instruments-tip-sheet.pdf

Maybe it could be claimed as a Therapy Instrument?
 
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: tbrannon on June 13, 2018, 04:32:49 PM
4 pieces of 2" polystyrene insulation board.  Cut them into rectangles the size of a bass case (or plan ahead and pick your box first and cut them to fit the box).  Middle two sheets in the 4ply 'sandwich' get cut out with the outline of the bass, creating a pocket for the bass to fit into.  Throw in some padding (towels work) to support the neck/headstock and to fill up the empty voids so the bass doesn't move.   Tape the full top and bottom sheets on, slide it into a box and it'll get there safe.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: Zut8083 on June 13, 2018, 07:30:53 PM
I really like the idea of a "Therapy Instrument".  I wonder if I can get a "Therapy '72 Chevy Nova".
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: gearhed289 on June 14, 2018, 07:57:32 AM
I've been in the flight case business for over 20 years. tbrannon has the right idea, though I would use a softer polyester type of foam.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: hammer on June 14, 2018, 09:05:21 AM
Polyester or polystyrene foam makes sense to me though I do like the idea of claiming a seat as a therapy instrument.  The crazy thing is it would actually cost me nothing to fly to Santa Rosa (my better half works for Delta airlines so as long as there are seats the flight is free).  Only cost would be a rental car. 

Unfortunately, I'm sitting in a hotel room in Krasnoyarsk, Russia watching the Russian federation manhandle Saudi Arabia in the World Cup (live) and I don't even lie soccer/European football but ts the only channel not in Russian.  I will not be back until the end of June and want to get the bass to Mica and company ASAP.   Hopefully my spouse will be willing to do the packing.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: Zut8083 on June 14, 2018, 09:58:57 AM
Wow, that's a cool story.  The only things that matter, as far as I can tell are, 1) what is the time differential between asking your spouse to fabricate the bass insert, pack it, and mail it for transit (presumably overnight) and having your therapy instrument be handed off in person to the folks in Santa Rosa? 2) How long will your instrument be in Santa Rosa before coming back to you with your brand new case and better than new? 3) What is the cost differential between handing the bass off like the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel and building and shipping it in a homemade packing brace, or using an Alembic case there and back; is it consequential?  4) What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

I might have made a mistake, but it seems like you are not too worried about spending the money to construct a secure shipping vessel and to ship your bass to Santa Rosa, and the time differential would be about two or three weeks for 1), whether your bass flew with friend, or flew on its own to Alembic.  The deal breaker is the approximate value for 2) relative to 1), and whether additional time from 1) will make a difference in 2), as that is what you really are interested in, I think.

Anyhow, enjoy your World Cup viewing, and best of luck!  Paka.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: hammer on June 19, 2018, 08:54:22 AM
Looks like shipping the bass back to CA will need to wait until I return to the U.S.  My spouse was not thrilled with being responsible for the safety of one of my instruments.

Reader Warning: An interesting story associated with my current work in Russia follows.  It is, however, only tangentially related to Alembic or the rest of this thread.

During our time in Russia/Krasnoyarsk I had the opportunity to have a two-hour meeting with Valdimir Lande who is the artistic director and primary conductor of the Siberian Symphony Orchestra in Krasnojarsk as well as an orchestra in New York and the national choir in Washington D.C.  Most of the discussion centered around his experience working with young adults with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) in the U.S. who are musicians and ideas he has about at least some of these children having a much better capacity to express emotion and self-regulate their behavior through listening to or playing music than through language. The conversation focused on how teaching melodic music to children with ASD in the form of instrumental lessons and having them listen to it might improve their functioning. Sorry drummers, he indicated that melodic instruments were a lot better approach than the rhythmic approach currently used in most music therapy programs.

Vladimir made the point that during music a musician needs to: (1) Predict what is coming next (e.g., move his/her hands up or down the neck of a violin to be ready to play a specific set of notes); (2) Execute the sets of notes specified by the music; and (3) Analyze what is played in the context of what is to be played next. Interestingly, all these processes are also involved in the development of those skills all children need to develop in order to: (a) engage in ongoing social interaction with others; and (b) exercise self-determination (i.e., exercise the degree of control they desire over those things in life that are important to them).  These are two topics on which I’ve been working for years in my research, but never thought of how they might be more easily taught to children with ASD via music than more traditional approaches.  By the way, when asked if bass could be considered a “melodic instrument” he indicated that it all depended on the way it is played referencing Charles Mingus, Jaco Pastorius, and Stanley (Dave: if he knew your work I think he’d also include you with this group).

Eventually the conversation came around to a discussion of digital music and while Vladimir’s response wasn’t surprising his comment that, “this digitized stuff is ruining our brains” took me a little by surprise. He alluded to digital music being similar to looking at an art masterpiece (I think he used Rembrandt’s, The Night Watch as an example), with a large piece of cardboard placed over it with holes punched in the board every inch or two.  He went on to state that he thinks that listening to music in this form removes much of the signal/stimulus that allows the musician to communicate feeling, emotion, & affect, and for the listener to hear that from the musician. Vladimir expressed the belief that we listen to so much of this type of music today that musicians are losing the capacity to effectively communicate this aspect of music to their audiences because they no longer pay attention to it themselves. In addition, because they hear it so infrequently, audiences are losing the ability to respond to the emotional aspects of music even when it is present in live performances.  This interesting conversation ended with his pleading for everyone to make sure their children have the opportunity to learn to play an instrument; that technique should not necessarily be the primary aspect of musicianship on which attention is focused; and that even poorly executed live music is a lot better to listen to that music of the digital type.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: hammer on June 19, 2018, 08:59:22 AM
Missing my Alembics and needing more work on fretless and long scale basses I took the opportunity Vladimir gave me and spent some time play an upright bass owned by eh Siberian Symphony Orchestra that makes even a full scale upright look small not alone my Alembics (see photo).  A bit difficult to reach the lower register with this one.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: David Houck on June 19, 2018, 10:24:20 AM
Brian; first, thanks for the compliment, and though I understand your point about melodic playing, those three musicians are light years ahead of me.  :)

And thanks for sharing this story.  I'm going to send some of your comments to my brother as it may be useful to him regarding his son.

And that's an interesting comment about digital music.  I was reading last night about "wavelength" and the related differences between analog and digital recorded music.

Today, the vast majority of recorded music is digital.  Personally, I don't know that it affects my emotional reaction to music.  But that may just be me; there are times when I open deeply to some piece I'm listening to.

As a conductor working in different parts of the world, he certainly has more opportunity to observe the reactions of audiences to live music than I do.  But it occurs to me that there may be other factors related to the time in which we all now live that may, generally speaking, affect the level to which people are able to connect on a deep level, not just with music, but with each other and the world around them, and with themselves.

And finally, that's a nice finish on that upright.  :)
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: lbpesq on June 19, 2018, 03:36:30 PM
Let's jam!
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: gearhed289 on June 20, 2018, 07:47:39 AM
Brian, thanks for sharing, interesting stuff. With regard to digital music and communicating with the audience, I think a lot of the problem has to do with the proliferation of backing tracks. Everything played to a click, everything sounding studio-perfect... It certainly takes the humanity out of the music. If you can't pull it off live, don't pretend you can. Do something interesting with it. End of rant...  8)
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: gtrguy on June 20, 2018, 10:23:02 AM
Forgive me, but in terms of digital recording I don't agree at all. I think digital allows many more people to record their creative music and then get it out there, using the web.

Before that, recording studios had a lock on, well, recorded music. Then the labels decided what was commercial enough to press and market, unless you were paying for the whole thing yourself. The creators of the music were often last in line in the process, and money was a big deciding factor in whatever happened.

As far as sounding mechanical for example, when I record, I use both digital and tape, and I also use real drums mixed with sampled drums (often my own drums sampled). Software drum plugins, like Superior Drummer, use a fuzzy logic where you can vary the drums in a way a real drummer would.

This idea or fad that digital music 'has no soul' is all too often something that is spread by people in the industry who feel threatened by the encroachment of technology on what has formerly been their exclusive domain. I see it as a liberation of creativity that allows artists to reach out directly to an audience of listeners that was denied to them before.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: tbrannon on June 20, 2018, 09:00:27 PM
Thanks for that David.  You have an incedibly informed perspective.  I enjoy music that sounds good to me, be it analog or digital. 
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: edwin on June 22, 2018, 08:50:22 PM
I think anyone who asserts that digital music at a sufficient resolution isn't providing the whole picture and is causing psychological issues doesn't know anything about Nyquist. My guess is that they wouldn't pass a double blind test. The real problem with digital recordings is the abusive nonsense that happens in mastering.

Of course, early technology was destructive to integrity of the music, but that's long in the rearview.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: mario_farufyno on June 24, 2018, 06:38:52 AM
Doesn't make sense blaming the midia. We've just had to take the apropriate time to learn on how to get what we want and what were the ways to get there in the digital realm. It took some time and we really made some mistakes in the process, but can't blame the hammer if the screw wasn't put right. New ways demand new paths.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: pauldo on June 24, 2018, 03:59:29 PM
“Honesty machinery making modern music can still be open hearted”
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: rv_bass on June 24, 2018, 04:27:20 PM
I did a bunch of live digital recording in the early 80s (with the gracious input from Healy et al.) and the sound was very nice (unfortunately the tapes were stored in a cool moist place and deteriorated).  I’ve only done a little digital recording with software and a computer and the sound was warm and clear, so I think it kind of depends on the user.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: hammer on July 09, 2018, 07:17:55 PM
Just returned from Russia and Ukraine and had a chance to read everyone's comments. Thanks for the advice on shipping.

With respect to the digital recording piece...please keep in mind that the artistic director and conductor of the Siberian Federal Orchestra with whom I had my conversation was, I believe, referring to the forms of music with which he deals (i.e. full orchestra which from what I remember includes somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 musicians).  I never thought to ask him whether his comments applied as equally to 4-7 piece jazz, blues, rock, bluegrass, etc groups?  I'd be interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on the ability of digital music to capture the nuances of full orchestra music to the extent that it reproduces music with 10% or fewer of the instruments.

Now whether that leads to neurological differences developing is a totally different story. I don't have a strong opinion on that but it is interesting that differences have been found (neurological that is) between how our brains process electronic text and text written on paper with deeper levels of processing more likely with the latter.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: edwin on July 11, 2018, 02:18:49 PM
Digital recording doesn't care whether it's 1 instrument or 150 instruments. Its ability to resolve detail is arguably better than analog, assuming professional equipment used competently. The appeal of analog is actually for the euphonic distortion it provides, not its accuracy.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: jwright9 on July 11, 2018, 02:43:07 PM
Digital recording doesn't care whether it's 1 instrument or 150 instruments. Its ability to resolve detail is arguably better than analog, assuming professional equipment used competently. The appeal of analog is actually for the euphonic distortion it provides, not its accuracy.

Very well summarized!

Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: Zut8083 on July 11, 2018, 03:21:04 PM
This article is a really interesting, quick summary that I think parallels this discussion and raises many of points made by all of the enthusiasts here-

https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/digital-versus-analog.htm

This piecee could seem quaint, no doubt, to the more experienced people here, but I thought it was pleasing to read this piece, especially the last two pages.  The parting comment on ritual as part of listening to analog systems, and potentially while using analog recording media, is true for me and for friends of mine when it comes to playing and caring for vinyl.

Again, this article was presented only for entertainment's sake, and without endorsement.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: lbpesq on July 11, 2018, 03:29:46 PM
For me, the issue is not about digital recording but, instead, digital playback.  Regardless of how well a piece of music is recorded, when it is reduced/compressed to MP3 it loses something, IMHO.  But being as much of todays "music" consists of monotone rhythmic poetry over a drum track with the occasional auto-tune to make ersatz notes, does MP3 compression really matter?

Bill, tgo
(who just might be turning into the "get off my lawn" guy!!!!)
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: Zut8083 on July 11, 2018, 04:24:52 PM
Bill,

You sound like Bob Weir.  :)  The interviewer seems a touch silly, but hey, they talk about digital music files and his baby, TRI Studios.

Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: lbpesq on July 11, 2018, 05:14:02 PM
Hey, I also bought a Pono player on the Kickstarter campaign and still use it!

Bill, tgo
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: cozmik_cowboy on July 12, 2018, 04:43:33 AM
It's to be expected, Zut; just about every person I ever heard interview one (or more) of the Dead (or, for that matter, the Beatles) has seemed at least a little silly.

Peter
Title: Re: Safe shipping
Post by: Zut8083 on July 12, 2018, 07:11:52 AM
But is that because the interviewer goes "goo-goo", or they pick them to conduct the interview and irk the band a bit for garish behavior to sell the interview? 

I mean, while Keith Richards is not unflappable, he generally scares people for the common good and that of his fanbase whilst doing interviews, especially during his..."dieting" years in the seventies.  Yet if he doesn't care, he is unflappable.

Look at him with Mick Jagger.