Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: drewphishes on March 14, 2018, 07:32:28 PM
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Does anyone have any sound samples of an epic with the q switch upgrade?
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I guess from your title that you are aware that stock Epics came with bass and treble tone controls, and do not have a low-pass filter (same as stock Orions and stock Excels) and so that, as the Q switch provides different options for how strong the filter affects mostly the attack part of your notes, you won't find a stock Epic with a Q switch upgrade.
Some Epic owners may well have swapped out the bass and treble controls for a filter (they're all modular) and as there are already four holes drilled, it would be only logical to include a Q switch.
Any Alembic sounds recognizably like an Alembic, just that the ones without a filter get to be perhaps a little bit less outspoken. Apart from the filter vs. bass and treble controls, the non-Series packages use the exact same pickups and the same uncoloured preamp. So any sound samples of a set-neck two pickup Epic or Orion with a fliter and Q switch will give you a fair idea of what to expect; with the Excels there's a couple of variables that might complicate an A/B comparison (ash body, pickup spacing, often a Fatboy in the bridge position).
Another suggestion is to give an idea of your general playing style - fingers vs. pick, jamband vs. metal, jazz vs. reggae, etc. etc.
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Yes I have an epic and it has the stock pre amp and I do like it quite a bit.
Was just wondering how different it would sound with the Q filter and switch as there is an upgrade package to swap in those parts.
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You might check with our brother FC Bass here... he was among the first to convert his fretless Orion from stock V/P/B/T by adding a Filter and Q-switch... I bet he has some sound clips of his posted somewhere.
http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8798.0
This upgrade does require an adapter harness. I don't see it in the Store, but obtaining one is as easy as a phone call to the Head Elf.
Speaking from personal experience, as I commented over on TalkBass, there is absolutely nothing like filter-based electronics from Alembic. Of course the best way to know if it's right for you is by a firsthand experience.
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even a cool video or soundclips of an alembic with Q filter in a couple positions would be cool
wanting to see if itll be worth it as i do love the tone and control ability now
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Below is a link to video of club member Goran with the Series I bass he got recently. The Series instruments have different pickups (true single coil) and electronics than the rest of the Alembic line but the filters and Q switches work the same way. If you watch from about the 3:45 mark he demos the effect of the filters and Q switches. Should give you an idea of how they shape the tone differently than the treble/bass boost and cut controls on your Epic do.
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An Essence (with switch), Elan or Spoiler is going to give you the sound you’re looking for. Make your next bass one of those and you have a nice duo!
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I have one recording where I gradually turned down the filter frequency throughout the piece - it's my Alembicized Telecaster Bass, so it's the Alembic P-Bass Activator without a Q-switch, so it's always at about +8 so really emphasizing the frequency that it's set at. I got a Q-switch installed on my Alembicized 70s P-Bass - I personally find it essential, I think the filters sound really good with the Q at 0 instead of boosted (though boosting certain frequencies is cool too and an important option that the Q-switch provides.
I should note too that the bass is strung with Chromes (flatwounds) and played with a pick:
https://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/ostronato (https://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/ostronato)
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So, are you all saying that a Q switch only works well with a filter and with the Epic bass /treble it won't affect it ?
I have a horse in the race, so I need to know, too. My Orion is a PERFECT bass, but I've been curious if a Q would make a difference.
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The Q affects the attack at the upper threshold we here you set the filter, so you need the low pass filter if you want to have a Q. Others please correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think the Q can be used with the bass/treble tone controls.
If you have an Orion with low pass filter for tone control, I would suggest adding a Q, I did that to an Orion I had and it made a big difference.
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Isn't the "East meets West" concept the meeting of bass/treble controls (East) with filter/Q (West)? I have never had anything other than filter/Q controls, so not totally sure...
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Yes, need a Filter circuit... without one, no frequency to boost Q. Yes, you can add one to the Epic/Orion electronics, but it can be a squeeze fitting them in there.
FC did it here-
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8798.0
Here is a comprehensive post on filters- https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=308.0
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I put Alembic pickups and a simple circuit in my five-string Modulus Quantum bass after I bought it in 1988, volume, filter and on/off switches for the three pickups. A few years ago I finally had Alembic add a Q-switch plus the variable bass and treble controls. I am really happy with the sonic results and and was amazed that they were able to get everything in the limited space the cavity has. The bass/treble controls are quite nice and would sound great on their own but to me the filter and Q is what defines the Alembic approach to tonal shaping, having both really opens up the palette.
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Crowded, yet looks almost elegant in the execution!
Bill, tgo
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I have a sound example of an elan that is a single filter with q switch. The bass also has bass and treble boost and cut switches but if you ignore those examples you will get some idea of what a single filter alembic can sound like. Be aware though that this is an all maple bass and through neck so your bass may sound slightly different. I expect you are more interested in how the filter and Q can be used shape tone rather the tone of my specific bass.
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My Orion had a filter, Q and, Pan Filter, it was snug but everything fit. Orion’s are great basses! :)
https://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=23079.0
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Man, I had forgotten about that one Rob. Fretless too!
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Yah, that’s one I should have kept :)
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So, are you all saying that a Q switch only works well with a filter and with the Epic bass /treble it won't affect it ?
I have a horse in the race, so I need to know, too. My Orion is a PERFECT bass, but I've been curious if a Q would make a difference.
The Q-switch only applies to filter based tone controls not the bass/treble you have in your Orion. When turned on the Q-switch in the Alembic low pass filter boosts the frequency the filter is set at.
Isn't the "East meets West" concept the meeting of bass/treble controls (East) with filter/Q (West)? I have never had anything other than filter/Q controls, so not totally sure...
EMW combines the standard bass/treble controls of the Orion/Epic with a filter and Q-switch. So it is a hybrid of the two methods of tone control and is what I have in my fretless Orion.
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I have never really grasped how the EMW configuration works because if you close the filter down and then turn up the treble control then wouldn't that be trying to increase the treble you have filtered out. With my limited electronics knowledge would i be right in thinking that the EMW layout is a parallel arrangement where the combined pickup output is split into a a sort of two channel mixer that allows you to process both "E" and "W" controls independently then sum them together at the output. I guess that would make sense then.
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I lack the proper terminology to describe how they work, but perhaps the answer lies in the Bass and Treble controls themselves. For Epic/Orion (or EMW equipped basses) these controls are asymmetrical boost/cut functions, +6dB and -15dB, centered around 100Hz and 5KHz for the bass and treble respectively. That info is from the Epic 'Controls' section, so I'm just assuming it applies to both. I'm only guessing the filter doesn't filter these frequencies out completely.
*edit, found this elsewhere-
On Alembic instruments, the low-pass filter frequency control has a range of 350 Hz to 6 kHz. That means if you leave it wide open (6 kHz), you'll basically allow all useful frequencies (for a bass) to pass, and it won't really act as a filter at all. On the other hand, if you set it to the minimum of 350 Hz, then you are starting to filter out some of the highest notes.
From firsthand experience, on my fretless - it is not only possible, but in fact a very pleasant sound to roll the filter back closed to about 20-30% open, bias the pickup balance to favor the bridge, and boost the bass a bit while cutting the treble just a smidge. Or the opposite; pan more to the neck pickup, open the filter, brighten up with the treble pot and roll off a bit of fluff with the bass EQ. Or go straight up the middle with the blend, and leave the EQ flat. (there's a center detent in mine...) and dial the filter wherever you need it to be. Don't get me wrong, I love all my Alembics, and their various electronic workings, and there isn't anything on Earth that sounds like a Series bass, but I definitely made the right call on this one. It's like a modern, more adjustable take on the old Distillate circuit to me. Simple, but very adjustable. Perfect for what I do.
And that purple Elan sounds marvelous, Jazzy.
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I'm not sure how they are connected electronically. The way I tend to set the controls is with the filter wide open I set the bass and treble where I want them. I then use the filter to shape the result. I've also found I tend to boost the bass some and leave the treble control in its flat position or slightly boosted. This ends up with the filter being my primary means for controlling the amount of treble.
Trying to work from ancient memory here so am waiting for corrections. When you are boosting the treble you are not just boosting the one frequency the control is centered on but a band of frequencies above that. So depending upon the filter setting you might only be removing part of the boosted frequency range. To answer your question, yes it is possible for a filter to remove all of the boosted frequencies if it is below the cutoff frequency for the treble control. On the other hand you have the potential to put the treble on steroids by boosting those frequencies and turning on the Q-switch with the filter wide open. Not that I'd ever play that way.
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I have wondered the same thing as Jazzy.
The way I tend to set the controls is with the filter wide open I set the bass and treble where I want them. I then use the filter to shape the result. I've also found I tend to boost the bass some and leave the treble control in its flat position or slightly boosted. This ends up with the filter being my primary means for controlling the amount of treble.
This makes sense. I have a Distillate with the bass and treble switches. I pretty much always have the bass boosted and the treble flat, then use the filter to shape. I will occasionally engage the Q switch, but rarely the treble boost.