Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: jazzyvee on February 08, 2018, 01:20:36 AM
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I know you guys know this but I'm still a newbie in the bass rig department.
For example the last two nights I've had rehearsal and I took a different bass on each night. Same rig was at the rehearsal studio a TC Electronics bass head ( no idea of the model but lots of knobs and a red face), into an 8x10 Behringer bass cab.
I have to say I found it a completely unpleasant experience. I couldn't get anything of the sound I expect from my basses.
It made my basses sound so bland, dull, lifeless that I think if I'd been to buy my first alembic and heard it through that rig I would have not even got into this brand!!!
Forgive me if this is your kind of rig but it was horrid!
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I had the same issue with just about all the rehearsal rooms up here V. Usually either an Ashdown ABM and 410 or a behringer 810 and some non-descript head. Really bad tone and quite often rattling / buzzing speakers as a result of the local metalheads playing at max volume. Similar problem with showcase style gigs where the venue provides the backline. I bought a Markbass LM800 to carry in just to be sure of getting a decent, repeatable tone. Nowadays we share a rehearsal space in the country with our drummer's son so I'm using a markbass 410 aswell. Much better sound all round. rehearsals go so much better when I'm not grumbling about the crap tone all night ;D
We've been recording recently and the band insisted I take my full Mesa Titan / 210 / 410 rig in which we mic'ed aswell as taking a DI, just so we captured the right sound.
Graeme
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Usually at this particular rehearsal place I get a room with a peavey or an ampeg which like you say are often thrashed. But this one didn't appear to any crackles or anything to indicate it had been thrashed. It just sounded lifeless.
As for mesa boogie, i'm down to my last one ( 1x15) powerhouse after recently selling the 2x10 and 4x10. That one seems harder to sell for some reason and it's the one I played the least.
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Yep. I saw you were selling your 410 but by strange coincidence a guy 5 miles away was selling his at the same time. Now I have to move my 212 on as I much prefer the 210/410 combination and the 410 is more versatile than the 212 on it's own.
Graeme
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I liked the boogie but for my needs, they don't seem to like a lot of loud deep bottom end so on vocal pa gigs where my bass had to fill the room, I felt it was struggling to deliver that even with two cabs. I'm moving to barefaced cabs. I bought a Big Twin II last November and planning on getting a big baby II for when I'm travelling really light. They have a full range hifi sound that is really clean really great and are light. If the mesa 2x10 was the last one remaining sell I would probably have kept it. But cest la vie.
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I know you guys know this but I'm still a newbie in the bass rig department.
For example the last two nights I've had rehearsal and I took a different bass on each night. Same rig was at the rehearsal studio a TC Electronics bass head ( no idea of the model but lots of knobs and a red face), into an 8x10 Behringer bass cab.
I have to say I found it a completely unpleasant experience. I couldn't get anything of the sound I expect from my basses.
It made my basses sound so bland, dull, lifeless that I think if I'd been to buy my first alembic and heard it through that rig I would have not even got into this brand!!!
Forgive me if this is your kind of rig but it was horrid!
Most non-bass players seem to think a bass rig is a bass rig...I can't count the number of times I've been told a bass amp is supplied at a rehearsal studio or even a gig and I show up and its a Peavey combo, Hartke combo/cab, etc. (no offense to those that like the tones those amps/cabs generate, but they aren't the sound I like). As a result I pretty much always through my Bag End 15" cab and Mesa Boogie walkabout head into my 4runner just to have it because if I don't have the sound that I like/am used to, than that rehearsal/gig is a less than pleasant experience for me.
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Glad the Barefaced stuff is doing it for you. My One 10 still is.
Funny stuff, bass rigs.
I started with a Linear Conchord, then a Fender Bassman and an Acoustic 360.
I used Trace for years and years - virtually every combination but never nailed the Graphic Equaliser.
EBS was good but heavy. The small Gallien-krueger Mb200 combo was so bad for me that I took it back to the shop the next day!
Mark Bass never worked for me (too boxy) and Ashdown wasn't bad but I heard bad reports at the time of reliability.
The Bergantino HD112s I still have are superb.
Amp wise, I just have the GenzBenz Streamliner 900 and Genzler 350 - both superb.
TC Electronics, as you know, is used by Mark King and probably suits the slap part of his style (he is one of my all-time heros....I can't slap at all or sing at the same time as play!!) I tried it in shop but found it a bit thin.
I think I am settled now.
Glynn
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I use an AER Amp One (200w, 1x10" speaker) and Amp Three (200w, 2x8" speakers).
Not cheap, but they are small, light, powerful and play nice with Alembic electronics.
I use the the Amp Three alone for non-Series basses and both together for Series basses (stereo). If I need more "muscle", I either feed the PA with an XLR line out from the rear panel, or add a QSC K-12 powered monitor fed from the rear panel by a standard cable equipped with 1/4" jacks.
Yeah, I know there are more complex and powerful rigs out there that probably offer slightly better sound quality, but they come with a price: weight, stage footprint and set-up time.
Since all of my recent rehearsals and gigs have required a minimalist approach, the AER amps have become my "go to" rig.
Here is the Amp Three (foreground in front of guitarist's pedalboard) at a recent rehearsal:
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Behringer 8X10?!! That sounds like the weak link to me. The TC Electronics stuff gets mixed reviews but it might have sounded better through a better cab.
I'm going to a rehearsal at one of the local Guitar Center practice rooms - apparently they have a bass amp there but I'm really tempted to bring my GK MB-112 II rather than have to play through something crappy and inadequate.
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Behringer always ruined my joy either live or in studio. You ask: amps, cabinets, peripherals... you can never trust. Even their DIs can compromise your tone... annoying. That kind of trouble is the main reason I ended carrying my gear with me to any gig all times, even when not being paid for.
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That was one thing I kind of learned to live with. I kept a Carvin 2X10 combo and 2X10 extension cabinet where I would rehearse with a band. It didn't sound bad it just wasn't great but since rehearsal is to get everyone on the same page it didn't bother me. In fact it made using my stage rig much more fun and I appreciated it sound much more than I would have otherwise.
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We shouldn't have to fight the amp and speakers. Played a gig the other night with the club backline - totally beat ampeg svt cab, some GK head. I listened to the recording of the gig - apparently because I couldn't really hear what I was playing, I compensated with LOTS of notes. Ugh.
Current rig is F2B into Minnie 800 into some TC Electronics 2x10 cabs that feel pretty responsive, sometimes with a 15" cab. Will look into some of the cabs that other people here are talking about sometime, but the TCE cabs weigh next to nothing, which is a major plus for my casual gigging.
My favorite rig ever, that sounded PERFECT, in '78, back when i had muscles (and hair) and was convinced that it wouldn't be long before we got that big record deal, was f2b into a mess o' HH FET amps, into (all hard trucker) 2 of the 15" cabs (the really big single 15" ones) and 4 of their 2x12 cabs, all loaded with Gauss drivers.
Amazing sound.
Absolutely impractical.
I still dream of that sound...
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This goes for every bass I own, but especially the Alembic instruments... and is a direct result of interactions and advice from various Members of this Board.
There is nothing, absolutely nothing I've played through that sounds quite like my music room rig, comprised of an F-1X > PowerAmp > a bunch of speakers, usually bi-amped. It ain't about the volume - it's about the quality. Unfortunately, it would be not only wildly impractical to transport all that heft, but silly overkill for any gig I have.
For that, it's a Mesa WalkAbout in a Scout 15 combo-cab. That thing can get loud if you get in a tough spot, but if you're careful with the input gain, it'll stay clean too, even at higher volumes. The biggest drawback is that the one speaker cabinet alone can't really make the best use of what the amp puts out. Not a problem for me, ever.
*having test-driven a couple Alembics thru Keith's big rig, I gotta' say - it's pretty sweet too. ;D
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Although not frequent for me, when faced with using "this is what we got" for amplification, I start with turning everything flat. My Distillate has a broad palette- I then massage to what I perceive to be lacking. As mentioned, the tricky part is not knowing how it sounds more than 10' in front of the amp. My wife is a critical listener and provides great feedback.
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I've been playing through the same rig for 12 years now- sansamp bass di, Acoustic 370, GK 410, Verlage 115 with a vintage Fane speaker in it...lucky I nailed what I wanted first try...I did recently play through a Genz-Benz head that sounded good but I don't remember what model...I've played through G-K heads before and just kinda hate them. As for Behringer stuff; walk away...there is a reason all the Behringer stuff sells cheap when used; only suckers buy it new, and gamblers buy it used...hoping it'll still work.
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As for Behringer stuff; walk away...there is a reason all the Behringer stuff sells cheap when used; only suckers buy it new, and gamblers buy it used...hoping it'll still work.
Well said. That may as well be their company motto!
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The most hit-me-right-between-the-eyes comment / suggestion I ever read here in the AC was Mica's observation that (Your Instrument = [bass guitar + amp/speakers]).
Either exists in a silent vacuum without the other, and together it's either magic or a big Not Right.
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Glad the Barefaced stuff is doing it for you. My One 10 still is.
Funny stuff, bass rigs.
I started with a Linear Conchord, then a Fender Bassman and an Acoustic 360.
I used Trace for years and years - virtually every combination but never nailed the Graphic Equaliser.
EBS was good but heavy. The small Gallien-krueger Mb200 combo was so bad for me that I took it back to the shop the next day!
Mark Bass never worked for me (too boxy) and Ashdown wasn't bad but I heard bad reports at the time of reliability.
The Bergantino HD112s I still have are superb.
Amp wise, I just have the GenzBenz Streamliner 900 and Genzler 350 - both superb.
TC Electronics, as you know, is used by Mark King and probably suits the slap part of his style (he is one of my all-time heros....I can't slap at all or sing at the same time as play!!) I tried it in shop but found it a bit thin.
I think I am settled now.
Glynn
After a recent dep gig when packing my BF Cab into my smart car, one of the band members commented on how it was hard to believe I could get something that put out that much sound into the back of a smart car!
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Barefaced are becoming very highly regarded, excellent cabinets from what I gather. Here's a link of Jazzy's cabinet, I gotta admire a builder that lists 'pistonic sensitivity' on the spec sheet !
http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/Big-Twin-2.htm
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In my experience the power amp plays such a crucial part including pairing it with the right speakers. I have tried so many options/combinations and have settled recently on using the Ampeg SVT-4 Pro (as a stereo power amp only) paired with my favorite preamps (interchangable: Grace, Alembic, or the Helix) along with the Ampeg Pro NEO 15" cabinet and an Accu Groove 2×10 cabinet.
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I'm going to a rehearsal at one of the local Guitar Center practice rooms - apparently they have a bass amp there but I'm really tempted to bring my GK MB-112 II rather than have to play through something crappy and inadequate.
Ended up taking my GK - left it in the trunk and used the Acoustic amp with the 8X10 (?!!) cab that was in the room - partway through I went and got the GK. One of the guitar players was psyched and thanked me - afterwards too he commented on how much better the GK sounded.
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I am a big fan of Markbass heads and cabs. They are known for their "transparent" sound, which is exactly what I want for my Alembics - an uncolored amplification of the Alembic electronics & wood. I use a parametric EQ from [SFX] sometimes to scoop my mids, but it does not add color.
I've often thought of getting an Alembic Pre + Power Amp (which I'm sure would sound even better), but with the amount of gigging I do I prefer the portability/ease of the small amp head + 2x10 cab.
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I am a big fan of Markbass heads and cabs. They are known for their "transparent" sound, which is exactly what I want for my Alembics - an uncolored amplification of the Alembic electronics & wood. I use a parametric EQ from [SFX] sometimes to scoop my mids, but it does not add color.
I've often thought of getting an Alembic Pre + Power Amp (which I'm sure would sound even better), but with the amount of gigging I do I prefer the portability/ease of the small amp head + 2x10 cab.
Not to be needlessly contrary, but I've had the opposite experience with Markbass. All of their amps I've played have reminded me of Ampegs to one degree or another, which is to say, very difficult to get a completely clean, uncolored sound. It's a great sound for a certain tone and feel, but compared to a rig that really is straight wire with gain (Grace Felix into a power amp), it's very different.
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these speakers will change you life, my 2 Phil Jones Bass C8s, they will handle 1600 watts, my search for the perfect amp is over!!!!
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The one rule of thumb that I've found helpful when dealing with any borrowed / rented / provided backline is to go a flat as possible (eq-wise). If there are issues, try to subtract instead of add. For example, if I feel a rig needs more mids, better to slightly cut low and high, than to boost mids.
A huge factor is the resonance of the floor the rig is sitting on.
Most venues I play use DI, so this really just impacts my onstage sound.
My go-to rig is a DNA 1350 over 2 DNA DNS112C's. Since I usually haul my own gear, the modular cabs get the nod. Very transparent, and the best class-D implementation I've heard.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4418/36759207790_9f5fd092af.jpg)
When I have to go 100% organic, an all-tube Mesa Prodigy over a Powerhouse 410 is the platform for tubey-goodness. Not too heavy either.
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With resonant and hollow stages, I find this product Auralex Iso Series™- Instant Sound Optimisers does actually live up to it's claim.
I have the GRAMMA (£89) and it does tighten up the sound.
Glynn
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With resonant and hollow stages, I find this product Auralex Iso Series™- Instant Sound Optimisers does actually live up to it's claim.
I have the GRAMMA (£89) and it does tighten up the sound.
Glynn
+1. The Gramma is very effective.
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I just bought an Auralex GRAMMA, based on these comments above.
We have a gig this Friday (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=23507.0), and not only is the stage constructed like an acoustic guitar's sound-box, the sub-woofers are also under the stage.
I was thinking of going with a DIY solution, but by the time I got the materials together...
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Good luck with the GRAMMA. Hope it works for you and please report back as I guess you would.
Glynn
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Good luck with the GRAMMA. Hope it works for you and please report back as I guess you would.
Glynn
So here is the GRAMMA report:
1) I play house bass at a Blues Jam every Thursday at the Legendary Wooden Nickel. This is a venue that I know well. A frequent interaction with one of the guitarists is that I need to turn down. Last night, he said I needed to turn up. Mind you, I set up using the same rig, same settings, but the cabs on top of the GRAMMA. I also asked another bass player to evaluate if he noticed any differences, without telling him what to look for. He didn't notice anything dramatic, either plus or minus. But other people did say that my rig sounded more focused.
2) We also had a gig at a venue here in Evanston, which was the original reason I bought the GRAMMA. Unfortunately there were so many other issues with the sound engineer messing with the mix, that I don't have anything useful to report in using the GRAMMA in the wild, based on that gig.
So I think think the first test is pretty interesting - especially the fact that the #1 griper was suddenly asking me to turn up. My ears told me that there was a bit more definition when the other bass player was playing as well.
I wish I had more useful things to report on the 2nd gig, but that whole night was plagued with bad sound and bad sound engineering.
On night#1 the signal chain was 1968 Franken-Precision -- > Genz Benz Shuttle Max 12.0 --> 2 x DNA DNS 112C (all on the Auralex GRAMMA)
On night#2 the signal chain was 2004 Alembic Essence -- > Genz Benz Shuttle Max 12.0 --> 2 x DNA DNS 112C (all on the Auralex GRAMMA)
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Appreciate the review Tom!
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I am a big fan of Markbass heads and cabs. They are known for their "transparent" sound, which is exactly what I want for my Alembics - an uncolored amplification of the Alembic electronics & wood. I use a parametric EQ from [SFX] sometimes to scoop my mids, but it does not add color.
I've often thought of getting an Alembic Pre + Power Amp (which I'm sure would sound even better), but with the amount of gigging I do I prefer the portability/ease of the small amp head + 2x10 cab.
Not to be needlessly contrary, but I've had the opposite experience with Markbass. All of their amps I've played have reminded me of Ampegs to one degree or another, which is to say, very difficult to get a completely clean, uncolored sound. It's a great sound for a certain tone and feel, but compared to a rig that really is straight wire with gain (Grace Felix into a power amp), it's very different.
That’s odd to me. There are two filters on Markbass amps that are both 50% engaged when all dials are at the noon position. Not saying this happened to you, but I think a lot of people have been put off by Markbass because they tried the amps thinking they had everything set neutral (and didn’t).
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Yes - it is subtle the difference with a GRAMMA but your point about being focused rings a bell.
I don't use it on every gig....Hollow stages benefit and Carpet rooms don't need it. The small outlay for the choice, I feel, is worth it.
Appreciate the report and a shame that the second gig didn't stand a chance because of the variables.
Glynn
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I am a big fan of Markbass heads and cabs. They are known for their "transparent" sound, which is exactly what I want for my Alembics - an uncolored amplification of the Alembic electronics & wood. I use a parametric EQ from [SFX] sometimes to scoop my mids, but it does not add color.
I've often thought of getting an Alembic Pre + Power Amp (which I'm sure would sound even better), but with the amount of gigging I do I prefer the portability/ease of the small amp head + 2x10 cab.
Not to be needlessly contrary, but I've had the opposite experience with Markbass. All of their amps I've played have reminded me of Ampegs to one degree or another, which is to say, very difficult to get a completely clean, uncolored sound. It's a great sound for a certain tone and feel, but compared to a rig that really is straight wire with gain (Grace Felix into a power amp), it's very different.
That’s odd to me. There are two filters on Markbass amps that are both 50% engaged when all dials are at the noon position. Not saying this happened to you, but I think a lot of people have been put off by Markbass because they tried the amps thinking they had everything set neutral (and didn’t).
I have the VLE and VLF dials at 7 o clock on my LM 800 - so barely engaged - and find I get just the right tone with everything else very close to noon. I was initially put off Markbass years ago at the Manchester Bass days when players like Hadrien Feraud and Jeff Berlin used the yellow stuff but sounded very dull and muffled. Just their style I guess, as with my MK I can sound like anyone through MarkBass kit. (saying that I much prefer gigs where I can use my full Mesa Boogie rig)
Graeme
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I struggled with Markbass and I had a good few combinations ending with a 12 combo and Traveller cab. I managed to sell to a buyer who loved the stuff. I could never get the "ballsy" (technical term) sound that I get with Genz amps. I suppose if soloing is your thing then it could work. I found the VLE and VLF dials not much help to eliminate the, for me, boxy sound. Still loads of folk use it.
Glynn
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Valuable impressions about markbass and gramma, thanks guys!
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My barefaced big baby II arrived today I was surprised at how small it is. Initially I thought they had packed the wrong cab but after checking the label at the back it seems not.
For a box that is this light and so small the density of sound it produces, at home anyway, is impressive. I'm going to an open mic night tonight so will give it a few songs to see what it is made of. But if it's anything as good as the write ups and the larger cab of theirs I have, I will be happy. Much easier to get in the smart car than my old boogie cabs.
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My AER amps have taught me that size is not as important as it once was to obtaining good / big bass tone.
Just use the rear panel line out and let the PA do the work - !!
Here's a photo taken at a recent private party - the AER Amp 3 is at my feet (facing me and the drummer). You can see the XLR cable which fed the PA mixer. This diminutive rig, when pumped through the PA, held its own against the guitarist's 100 watt amp and 4x12 cab (far left in photo).
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I am a firm believer that all of the links matter in the end product. I've have experimented with many basses, amps, and cabinets to get deep clear and clean sound throughout all the frequencies that the bass produces. I currently have a big rack unit with a power amp, f2b, sf-2. A rack with a Ampeg SVT 4Pro, a rack with a Ampeg SVT 7Pro and a Genz Benz Streamliner 900. I also have a second sf-2 in a rack case that I use with the other amps. I use the Streamliner for practice and carry it in my backpack as a backup. I usually gig with one of the 3 racks. As far as speakers go I've tried everything from 2x10's, 4x10's, 15's and 18's of various brands. Right now I am sold on fEARful speakers and have a 15/6, 15/6/1 and 15 sub. For what I play (funk, R&B and pop) they are incredible! The cabinet is specifically designed for the speakers and they have crossovers in them. The 6" driver (18sound 6ND410) does most of the work. The woofer (Eminence 3015lf) is a low frequency woofer which goes real low and real clean. Fearful's sound great at low volume as well as at high volume, and they will get very loud if needed. I like the warm tube sound which the Ampegs and Streamliner all produce. Whenever possible I don't go through the FOH system so that my basses sound like my basses coming through a system that will reproduce what the bass is putting out. As most of us have probably experienced, some sound guys don't understand that different basses sound different and it is possible to actually hear all the notes clearly, and all basses don't sound like Fenders. I guess I said that to say this, you have to find the equipment that will create and reproduce the sound that you want, and that is different sounds for each of us. Most notes that we play on our basses are midrange and to my thinking it's asking a lot to expect a 8" 10" 12" 15" etc. to reproduce the entire spectrum. That's what I like about my fEAfuls being two and 3 way. BTW I never use the tweeter on my 15/6/1 because it's way too bright! My 2cents worth.
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After almost 40 years and many thousands of gigs, I have settled on a rig that never disappoints no matter what, where, and who I am playing with. The most critical piece is either an F1X or an F2B. That clarity from the bright switch is a must, but the signal with all the tone knobs at 12 o'clock is virtually perfect. The second important component is a solid state a/b power amp with preferably a minimum of 3000 watts. I have a Samson that has 4600 watts bridged, but it runs a bit hot and is my second choice after the Carvin DCM3800L. The DCM3800L has incredible response, great clarity, and produces fantastic tone from ultra lows to the clearest highs. Being an a/b class amp, it also does not introduce the grind and distortion of a D class amp. Trust me, it is there if you ever get the chance to really test the two styles of amp side by side. I know you are likely scratching your head asking why I would want a Carvin product at all, but I have found this particular amp to be outstanding, and I have used them now for 4 years. If it works and does not let me down, I am not going to turn my nose up to it because it says "Carvin" on it. The third part of the equation is the cabinet, and I have not found a better sounding one than the Genzler 12-3 Array. To me, it is a perfect product. It is light, extremely well made in the USA, and sounds amazing in all venues. These cabinets produce low end like a 15 or 18" speaker, but have incredible sparkle on the top end. The array of four 3" speakers down the front do something I have never gotten from any other cabinets. Your sound is dispersed over the stage and audience so that everyone, including yourself, get an accurate reproduction of your tone. These Genzlers are a very important part of my rig.
With all this, I also get good performance from the use of a Phil Jones C8 and or C4 cabinet with either a Demeter 800D or Bugera Veyron tube amp.
Some other observations over many years of playing are that every room is different and there are many factors that can affect what you are hearing. Carpet, deck style wood stages, and crowd size are just a few of them. The key is to find a rig that is consistent in virtually any situation, and that has the right tonal adjustability to compensate for the different factors. To this day, my #1 rig is incredibly consistent no matter what is thrown at it.
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That's a point, the room have a major impact on how we perceive lows. Corners in bad proportioned spaces can drown you in mud.
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sonofa_lembic, it's great that you've found your perfect rig!
However, I have to comment on the amp thing.
First, I doubt that your Carvin or Samson put out anything like thousands of watts. Carvin, in particular, has always had incredibly optimistic specs, rating an amp that is in the 2-300 watt per channel area as thousands of watts by rating it at peak power at 1khz at a pretty high distortion level. Almost any amp can put out thousands of watts measured like that. To truly put out thousands of real watts (i.e., at full bandwidth and low distortion for longer than a few hundredths of a second) takes more current than you get out of a standard circuit. The Carvin, which seems like a very nice amp, claims THD< 0.03% @ 50% output, which means that it's really a 350wpc amp at 8 ohm. Not terribly shabby, but not quite what the marketing claims. I have a power amp (A QSC that is designed for stadium installs) that really does put out 800 wpc at 8ohms continuously at full bandwidth and low distortion that bridged to mono will do 2200 watts at 8 ohms at full bandwidth and low THD. I bridged it for one gig and it literally caught the speaker on fire, with smoke billowing out. Thousands of watts is simply not an option for a bass rig without blowing it up. Even the GD wall of sound was 4 Mac 2300s for the bass, so 1200 watts, which weren't run flat out.
I have an old McIntosh MC2105, my bass amp from high school, and brought it out to a gig a couple of years ago just for fun (it's really, really, really heavy, so it stays home) and is rated at 105wpc. It has nice meters on the front, so you can see how much of the power you're actually using, and it was really loud on stage, powering a Sunn double 15 JBL cab with one channel and a 12" JBL on the other (pickups run in stereo) and according to the metering, I was still pretty much in the 80-100 watt range. It was easily as loud as my Peavey amp that claimed to be thousands of watts, and it was coasting.
Second, class D vs. AB done right doesn't result in a difference in sound like you describe. In fact, class D is known for being lower distortion in general than class AB, at least until you hit clipping and most class D amps have built in limiting so you don't clip it. Early designs had problems, but many high end audiophile setups (and recording/mastering studios) are moving over to class D because of the improvement in the sound. The Hypex amps get great reviews. Over the years, I've gone, amp by amp, from a Crest CA9 (60lbs) and the above mentioned QSC, both AB, to a Crest Prolite 3.0, which is class D and weighs about 12lbs. It is not distorted or crunchy sounding in the least. There's no grind. I don't like grind (which is why I don't like SVTs). No good solid state amp which is not a purpose designed bass amp meant to sound like an Ampeg will give you crunch, grind, or other distortion.
If I had my way (i.e. roadies and a good road case for the Mac), I'd gig the McIntosh/JBL rig all the time, but the Crest/MAS (this speaker: http://www.masoundworks.com/manage.numo?pid=6&module=shopping_cart&component=catalog&cid=4) combination sounds amazing. Utterly clean and very deep.
You're absolutely right on about the preamp!
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After getting rid of two of my Mesa Boogie Powerhouse cabs, still trying to sell the last 1x15 cab, I now have two Barefaced cabs and, well I've been having a play with them through my rack head system and Series II europa and Series I shorty. I really like the sound from them however I do think that because I'm used to the middly sound of my boogie cabs I find that aspect missing from the the BF cabs at lower home use volume but once it's turned up it comes through better but not as in your face as the boogie. However the BF wins hands down on the low end and the top end is not as edgy as the boogie can be. I may try bi-amping and using the boogie cab on the bridge pickup, or the treble side of the F1-x crossover and the barefaced on the neck pickup or lower frequencies out of the F1-x. That might be a good mix.
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Here is my current big rig. Only stacked that way for convenience at home but not likely to have the speaker that close to my ears on a gig.
Barefaced Big Twin II ( 2x12 plus adjustable tweeter) rated at 1600w
Barefaced Big Baby II (1x12 plus adjustable tweeter) rated at 800w
I've just ordered a Crown XLS1502 power amp to replace the QSC PLX 2402 for no other reason than the weight of it puts me off using the rack as my main gigging amp.
I hope I don't lose anything sound wise.
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BAP!
Nice rig man!
That looks like a dream to play through.
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Well, after all that, my Mac just let its magic smoke out....
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Well, after all that, my Mac just let its magic smoke out....
Oh man...that sucks.
Is it toast?
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Well, after all that, my Mac just let its magic smoke out....
Oh man...that sucks.
Is it toast?
Don't know yet. The guy who can fix it is up in the mountains and life has been to crazy to get up there. As long as the transformers are good, I think it's fine.
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Just got home from a gig where the backline didnt arrive before the festival started and as we were first on, the prospect of going DI into a stage monitor was looming. Then the tech from Go West offered us their bass rig which was a Mark bass head and eden 4x10 cab. Anyway since it wasn't a rental rig I decided not to change any of the settings and when I got on stage the settings were not really suitable for a reggae gig, very middly hardly any bottom end, but I thought i'd best live with it and trust the venue sound to the FOH guys. The gig was fine and as far as the audience told me afterwards everything sounded great. However it's quite a challenge getting the feel right when you play a genre of music that requires a dominant bass sound on stage and have very little of it to work with.
That said, I stayed to listen to Go West later in the day and the sound was bang on point for their style of music. Just enough bass out front to carry band's sound.
I'm sure though if I'd tweaked the rig I could have got just the right sound for reggae. If it was a rental backline then I would have, but from experience all of the backline bass rigs I've had at gigs have had some problem with the sound except one which was a Markbass 8x10 which I used with my rack head.
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Just got home from a gig where the backline didnt arrive before the festival started and as we were first on, the prospect of going DI into a stage monitor was looming. Then the tech from Go West offered us their bass rig which was a Mark bass head and eden 4x10 cab. Anyway since it wasn't a rental rig I decided not to change any of the settings and when I got on stage the settings were not really suitable for a reggae gig, very middly hardly any bottom end, but I thought i'd best live with it and trust the venue sound to the FOH guys. The gig was fine and as far as the audience told me afterwards everything sounded great. However it's quite a challenge getting the feel right when you play a genre of music that requires a dominant bass sound on stage and have very little of it to work with.
That said, I stayed to listen to Go West later in the day and the sound was bang on point for their style of music. Just enough bass out front to carry band's sound.
Wow, I just played probably a totally different gig but with similar circumstances - bass rig that I wasn't able to adjust! It was interesting, I couldn't get off on the sound - my volume was low, (mostly-rhythm) guitarist next to me was a little too loud, couldn't hear the lead guitarist at all. I almost had to go on auto-pilot, but at the same time be really into the music ("play for my life" as Jerry Garcia put it?). Especially because this band is fairly improvisational - our set was only 20 minutes though so we had it pretty worked out, made it easier to roll with it and "just play the songs" even though that usually isn't my M.O.
I bet you played your gig like a complete professional and rocked the house!
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Hey Harry, good to know these are global issues. But yeah I gave the gig the same gutso as normal but as you no doubt know, if you are playing a phrase and you can hear the notes back and they sound like you expect it inspires you to play better. So whilst the FOH sound was good and i was happy with my playing the sound from the rig was not giving me the feedback I needed to play my best,..
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This was my setup at my gig on Sunday night. My Barefaced Big Baby II (800w at 8 ohms), with my new Crown XLS1502 which replaced my QSC PLX2402 because of the weight. I am beginning to realise I might have been a tad too quick in selling the QSC as I think it sounds better to my ears than the Crown. Kind of has a thicker and more dense sound and the attack seems more instant. The Crown is no slouch and a great alternative.
Well we live and learn. The plus side is the reduced weight means I will take the rack out gigging more and always have my best sound. What I do like about these two amps is that I can turn the power amp up full and no hiss so doing that and playing quietly gives superb quality. I couldn't do that with my mesa boogie walkabout head.
Next gig I will have it sideways so my OCD about the amp being bigger than the cab doesn't stress me out. :-)
>:( :o :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-\ :-\ :'(
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Next gig I will have it sideways so my OCD about the amp being bigger than the cab doesn't stress me out. :-)
>:( :o :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-\ :-\ :'(
Yeah - I gotta admit, that was the first thing I noticed.......
Peter
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You know, I've never understood why companies like QSC and Crown, or, insert
your own favorite, do not make single channel amps for bass players. I giged for
a long time with stereo amps and used only one channel due to either using one
cabinet or two with a 4 ohm load. The only benefit I found with the Crown that I
used was the two amps were independent, if one failed, I could plug into the other.
Never had a failure to justify the weight, though.
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This was my setup at my gig on Sunday night. My Barefaced Big Baby II (800w at 8 ohms), with my new Crown XLS1502 which replaced my QSC PLX2402 because of the weight. I am beginning to realise I might have been a tad too quick in selling the QSC as I think it sounds better to my ears than the Crown. Kind of has a thicker and more dense sound and the attack seems more instant. The Crown is no slouch and a great alternative.
Well we live and learn. The plus side is the reduced weight means I will take the rack out gigging more and always have my best sound. What I do like about these two amps is that I can turn the power amp up full and no hiss so doing that and playing quietly gives superb quality. I couldn't do that with my mesa boogie walkabout head.
Next gig I will have it sideways so my OCD about the amp being bigger than the cab doesn't stress me out. :-)
>:( :o :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-\ :-\ :'(
I just purchased the same Crown power amp and I'm very satisfied with the performance and sound it puts out.I did this to save weight also but still have everything housed in my ATA rack case which weighs a TON.
I gave up using SKB and Gator racks due to the latching system they use.Every one I have used the lid latches failed after a year of use.I gave up on them and went to a ATA flight case and although I don't have to worry about lid latch failure the trade off is the weight.
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Next gig I will have it sideways so my OCD about the amp being bigger than the cab doesn't stress me out. :-)
>:( :o :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-\ :-\ :'(
What about putting the cab on top of the rack? Maybe with some material between them to keep it from moving. It would get the speaker closer to your ears.
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I've been fortunate; I found an old F2-B in a pawn shop By a local Air Force base, I had it sent back to the shop and they gave it a once over/ good to go and I've been using it ever since. I had to change the Caps in it once in 25 years (Old Blue face) but never the less.... I use two old Crown Micro-Tech 600's .....and 2 ,15/8 combo cabs ....BOOM!!!!
EddieG
Peace!!!
See ya down range
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Ken
If you are using a stereo power amp for your rig and only need one channel you should put it in Bridge Mono Mode or even Parallel Mon Mode if using 2 ohm load.
That combines both channels of the amp into one with more power.
I use 2 6000 Watt Crown amps in my rig. Have 5 altogether. 18000 Watts. Two of my rigs use a pair of Crown Touring Sound Stereo Power Amps.
In both rigs both amps are set in bridge mono mode. One amp gets separately compressed signal from low out of F-1X and drives 1X15 cabinets.
The other gets a separately compressed signal from High out of F-1X and drives cabinets with 4X10 Mid Bass Drivers and Super tweeters.
Try running your amp in bridge mono to on or two cabinets. 4 ohm load. You only use one input and one gain control on amp but have the power from both amplifier channels driving your cabinets. That's why they don't make mono amps. They make amps with mono modes.
Hope that helps
Will
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Ken
If you are using a stereo power amp for your rig and only need one channel you should put it in Bridge Mono Mode or even Parallel Mon Mode if using 2 ohm load.
That combines both channels of the amp into one with more power.
I use 2 6000 Watt Crown amps in my rig. Have 5 altogether. 18000 Watts. Two of my rigs use a pair of Crown Touring Sound Stereo Power Amps.
In both rigs both amps are set in bridge mono mode. One amp gets separately compressed signal from low out of F-1X and drives 1X15 cabinets.
The other gets a separately compressed signal from High out of F-1X and drives cabinets with 4X10 Mid Bass Drivers and Super tweeters.
Try running your amp in bridge mono to on or two cabinets. 4 ohm load. You only use one input and one gain control on amp but have the power from both amplifier channels driving your cabinets. That's why they don't make mono amps. They make amps with mono modes.
Hope that helps
Will
That's a good idea, but you have to be careful. I've let the magic smoke out of many speakers this way. Not many bass cabinets are designed to handle the thousands of watts that can be produced in bridge mode. Also, in some cases, the sound quality can be reduced slightly. And, of course, make sure your amp can handle the load bridged. Not all amps can do a 4 ohm bridged load, if that's what your cabinet impedance is.
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Edwin
My Crown Macro Techs can handle a 4 ohm load in bridge mono mode. Which is what they are driving with two 8 ohm cabinets on each amplifier. And I'm not using store bought speakers. Built them my self and they have very high power handling capacity drivers in them. And I try to keep a 2 to 1 ratio of amplifier power to speaker handling specs. This way I never have to worry about clipping the power amp and putting square waves and DC current through the voice coils. Could I blow them up? Yeah. If I was stupid and wanted to throw away a lot of money. But I spent many years and a lot of $ putting together a systems this powerful. And a lot of research. So everything is safe. But good advice for anyone who doesn't have a good understanding of the subject.
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Sounds like you have enough speaker to not have to really turn any one of them up that loud, too. Sounds like a great rig!
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Edwin:
I also built my cabs. I found the combination by accident. I jammed with some friends; I used my SWR LA 8 Practice amp " remember those ?" and a Peavey 4C and a one of my PA 15 Sub Cabs. Got great separation with them. I measured the cab space of the LA 8 and incorporated the box inside the Sub Cab. A nice surprise and great sound Cabs. Each one is powered by a Bridged Micro Tech 600...from My F2-B.
EddieG
Peace
See Ya down range
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Here is my current rig with a combination of Barefaced Cabs. Big Twin II (2x12 + horn tweeter), Big Baby II( 1x12 + horn tweeter) and Dubster II (1x18).I haven't had any need to use them together but the configurations I have used so far are each cab singly then Big Baby II & Dubster together and Big Twin II & Big Baby II together. I used the Big Twin II on my back line for one outdoor gig then used the Dubster on the FOH as we had mic'd up the drumkit also. Sounded great. Combining the Dubster and Big Twin II would be serious overkill but it would be worth trying it on an outdoor out of PA gig and bi-amping with the Dubster on the neck pickup and Big Twin II on the bridge pickup. Not gonna happen anytime soon. :-(
Hmm for some reason I cant upload pictures. Will retry in a bit.
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Wow - what an impressive collection. Makes my Barefaced One 10 look a bit feeble - that said, it is a great little cab for small gigs. My main cabs are Bergantinos. Same thing though - nothing being used on gigs at present!
Glynn
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All being well, Live music venues can reopen up here from September the 14th. Not sure if that means pubs can start putting bends on again although one of our old venues, Box in Glasgow, is mailing out for showcase (i.e. free) bands now. Time to dust off the Mesa boxes.
Graeme
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Jazzyvee, impressive rig! I have two Big Baby 2 cabs, love them, good modular set for one or two use as needed.
Glynn, how do you like your Barefaced 110, I ordered one the other day.
Rob
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I couldn’t upload a pic from my iphone the other day but here goes. My Barefaced cab options. Ouch picture gremlins turned my picture sideways again.
Glyn, it is a lot of firepower mainly driven by the bass needs for playing reggae. As i have gigged these cabs over the past couple of years i have found the Big Twin II to be the most incredible sounding cab and it’s hard to think of a gig it would not cope with. I’m sure Rob’s two BBII’s would be equally capable and flexible. I almost succumbed to a 1x10 that came up for sale on UK Basschat to use as a small double bass setup powered by my phil jones briefcase. Maybe once i get to competent enough to start gigging on DB i will revisit that option.
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My slight OCD is going haywire seeing a head that's wider than the cabinet.
Graeme
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My slight OCD is going haywire seeing a head that's wider than the cabinet.
Graeme
Glad to know I'm not the only one with problem.
Peter
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Rob - the Barefaced one 10 is a truly remarkable cabinet. I did check with the company before I bought it that my GenzBenz Streamliner 900 (900w into 4 ohms and 500w into 8 ohms) would be OK and they thought it would. However I have after about a year or so decided that it is happier and so am I with my Genzler Magellan 350 which is my back-up amp. (that is 350w into 4 ohms and 175w into 8 ohms). So I would be careful not to use too powerful an amp (in spite of the company's claims of up to 500w being OK if clean sounds). It is excellent with the Magellan and still very loud for smallish gigs. I use the Streamliner with either my Bergantino HD112 or more recently Bergantino HDN 112 (which is also a remarkable cabinet at 12.5 kg.)
Jazzyvee -The One 10 is particularly sweet with my ABG and just like a double bass.
The Barefaced One 10, I think, is not covered as well as the Berg cabs ( Barefaced tolex came away at the edges and they had to re-stick it) but for the price, weight and purpose you can't go wrong - just realise it has limitations. I would buy it again.
Hope this helps,
Glynn
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Glynn, thanks for the feedback. I’m not looking for a lot of volume from the 110, and will probably use it with acoustic bands (jazz or bluegrass/traditional music) and quieter settings. I will use a 300W Walter Woods amp, which sounds like from your description will be perfect for this cab. I also really like the small size for travel when space in the car is limited. I read that the cab is tuned for a classic coloration, but that can be EQed out if desired, which makes it a flexible cab for different musical styles, so that’s great. I’m looking forward to playing through it! -Rob
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My slight OCD is going haywire seeing a head that's wider than the cabinet.
Graeme
Mine too, it is narrow front to back too so I spend far too much time making sure it's looks even when I gig with it. It looks better with my shallow rack head.
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Jazzyvee, slide the rack to the right about 3 cm and you should be nice and centered! :)
That 18 is huge! You must be swimming in low frequencies when using that in your setup. You have it all covered for sure!
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Thanks Rob I will be more discerning next time I take a photo hahaha. :-)
The 18" is certainly meaty but the crossover is set high enough to use it as a stand alone cab. I've used it for a couple of reggae gigs on it's own and it's fine. It replaces a previous 2x15 cab bareface made called the Dubster which was sold as a cab for reggae. That cab is a more recent incarnation but is no longer made and there are only a few, single figures i'm told, that were made as stand alone cabs. There were also a few made as powered subs. I like them to just add enough bottom to feel but not to blast. Mainly because they can be murderously loud and I don't want to be in front when it is.