Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Owning an Alembic => Troubleshooting => Topic started by: jazzyvee on December 29, 2017, 02:52:33 PM
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I've wondered if my saddles on my S1 shorty have been put on right by the previous owner. The string spacing feels wrong when I'm playing compared to my other basses. I'm sure the difference is marginal but it is noticeable. It seems to me that the slot on the D-string saddle is too large and the slot on the A-string saddle is a bit too small. I wonder of they need to be swapped over but will that mess up the string spacing at the bridge even more?
Can you have a look please and let me know what you think before I take the bridge to bits and move things about.
On the second picture I've moved the strings off the bridge to give a better view.
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Looking at the size of the string slots, I'd say the midle two have been swapped. But the string spacing would be off by quite a bit if you would swap those two saddles.
Most Alembics will have edge-to-edge string spacing at the bridge, perhaps this one was changed to centre-to-centre spacing? That would explain a different feel.
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Looks to me like if you switch the A & D saddles it is going to make a mess out of the string spacing. The G & D slots are oriented toward the right side of the saddle, the E & A the other way. If I remember correctly your SS is an older one (70s?). May just be that the tolerance on the parts wasn't quite as accurate back then. My 78 Series bass has one saddle that is cut funky and you can seat the string in two different places on the same slot. I have no idea if the previous owner modified the slot but I have considered having it replaced.
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Jazzy, I'd just file out the A string slot... don't go deeper, just ream the diameter a bit. The spacing looks fairly uniform, but I agree the slots are not sized correctly.
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The intonation screw heads are on the "wrong" side, can you confirm the bridge is assembled correctly?
See if the string height follows the fingerboard radius (middle two should be higher than the outer two saddles)
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I agree with Flip that the screws and nuts look upside down (which wouldn’t really affect the operation, but might be nice to put back to standard). Looks like the A and D saddles are in their correct positions. Pin and screw locations are consistent with my bridges.
The saddle grooves on my three Alembic series instruments are all in different places and look pretty different to each other. I think they are individually filed to suit each bass at the factory.
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The screws are ok. In playing position the screws are on top and the rod on the bottom. Looking at my saddles the slots are not cut symmetrically across the saddles. They look to have been cut to keep the correct string spacing on the neck.
I agree with the others that the A & D saddles look like they have been swapped. As you sight the strings up the neck is the spacing even? It is hard to tell from your picture but the space between the A & D look like it might be a bit wider than the other two.
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If it feels funny, then it probably is funny. After measuring the spacing, I had to get one new saddle on my old SS and cut it to where I liked the feel overall. The rest were OK.
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Makes me think... On my Epic, the saddles are NOT FILED! Never touched by the previus owner, never touched by me since 2009. I have had no problems -That I may have noticed... ::) - regarding this, but now I'm curious about it. SHOULD I file the saddles? Should I just leave them like they have been since 1996 when it was born? ???
Oh, and Happy 2018 everyone! It's celebration time already in here (Not 0:00 hours yet, just that I'm an early bird! ;) )
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Jazzyvee... I am curious how this issue was resolved.
Also, for everyone... I hope it is ok to sort of hijack since this thread is old...on slightly different note... I had to replace two of my saddles on my old S1. Mica suggested having someone local cut the blocks, which I did, and I am going to file the slots. It’s tha A and E that are being replaced, E was broken, and A’s groove is so wide it moves. I welcome any advice on doing so. This was the closest thread I found relating to filing the saddles. I have seen advice elsewhere... some say don’t file at all, string will settle where it wants to, some way small cut with triangular file, some say round files... Also wondering if I should go ahead and have them cut a D and G block while I’m at it... but I lean toward not replacing something that is working. However, if I am not going to file slots, I will need to replace all, for proper height, and then just lower the bridge, I expect. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
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If you can spot me a little time, I can post you some fairly detailed help tomorrow Allen... I'm 'plum whupped' for today, (just got in from the shop) got physical therapy again tomorrow morning but I'll be up there again in the afternoon. I'll dig my round files out and make a little demo. ;)
In the meantime, post me a couple pictures of what you're starting from. (think I know already, but just to be sure...) Make sure to include a shot of the D and G saddles in the frame too.
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Thanks Greg, will do. I received a prescription for PT today as well!
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I got assigned another eight days worth today myself, matter of fact... it's all about the fun, ain't it! :)
I got a couple pics, working on a post for you. Will put something up later this evening. Stay de-tuned. ;)
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Are these the photos you need? I’m inclined to install the saddle blocks, put the strings where they go, mark with a marker, take off and file with round file. Check height. Option 2, take off d and g, have new ones cut and drilled. Place all 4 on unfiled, and lower bridge. I guess I can see how it feels with string on when I put a and e on to mark. Thanks,
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Oops, sorry the are upside down, not sure how that happened.
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That’s crazy, thumbnails (correct term?) are upside down, but when you click on them they open right side up!
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Well, definitely will need to do some filing, but not what I expected. The machine shop didn’t drill the hole quite close enough to the bottom of the block. So I will need to file off some of the bottom so the screw will line up. As it is, you can see, angled a bit upward. There is not enough clearance in the entrance hole to wiggle it down a bit. I assume I can shave off a bit on the bottom, and it will line up, then I just have to compensate with a shallower slot on top. I looked at my Essence, a 92. I’m assuming it is all original, and no changes to bridge since factory. The blocks are smaller, but the slots are tiny. Just enough to let the string rest, but probably 80% - 90% of the strings are above the block. I assume 43 years on the S1 have worn the slots quite a bit.
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I'm working on it! The Android speech-to-text function on my phone is totally confused by my North Carolina heritage and my Southwest Virginia accent. ;D
Here are a couple tools you'll need... Round files, at least two sizes if you're doing the E and the A, and a set of dividers. This will help you accurately locate the slots. I took the liberty of swiping the pictures of your bass from the ebay ad that's still active... it looks to me like the slots are about where they should be, so you could go to school on the 1975 guys measurements.
Back in a few... Zelda gets a little upset when I have files out around the Alembics.
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Okay Allen, here's one other thing that you have to keep in mind... the strings as they go across the top of that bridge are arrayed in an arc, just like on your upright, so it is somewhat critical that the slots be cut the correct depth. Though the bridge height is adjustable independently from either side, if the A string or E string is cut too deeply into the saddle, it will bottom out before the other does. That will create a setup problem to say the least!
Just another observation, it doesn't look like the break angle is all that drastic over the saddles. This will make filing them easier but you will have to take care not to hit the bridge rails if you're going to file them while the saddles are mounted on the bridge. I probably don't need to tell you this but it would be much safer to mark where these slots are going and then clamp the saddle in a vise to file the slot. I might go as far as to rough them in while they were in place on the bass... (if Zelda was not watching) but that's it. That 1975 channel bridge is gonna' be tough to get an exact replacement for if you goof.
I have taken a couple pictures to illustrate how to measure the distance between the strings at the bridge with the dividers, and another to show how to hold the file when filing the saddle slots. Ideally, the slots should be about half the diameter of a string deep, and just a little bigger in diameter. When choosing a file, get the right size... I can't emphasize this enough. E-strings are typically something like .100 -.105, so I'd go just a fuzz bigger than your string.
Let me know if you need other pictures or more information, as always feel free to use that phone number or hit my private email. If you feel like you're getting in over your head, just stop. Can't go wrong there!
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Edward, tell us a little more about that angled bridge 75-183 over another massive sustain block...
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Mario, #75-183 is Allen's (allgood) bass dubbed "Rosie". There's quite a story that goes along with her odyssey, for another thread, but some of those basses from that time had experimental versions of parts that later became standardized or obsolete. You're right though, that "Rosie's" sustain block appears in the pictures to be a whopper. I'm not sure if it's really that much bigger, or if the old-style channel bridge just makes it look bigger, or if a combination of both factors is at work. I've seen a few 1975-76 bridges that were intentionally angled, I suppose for intonation purposes. I've seen extra holes drilled and tapped too, but I don't know if they came that way.
*The bass I used to model the file and dividers for Allen is a Distillate, #81D 1986... simply because it was the closest thing I had.
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Thanks for reply, Edward.
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allgood, I never got round to doing it. I contacted a trusted local luthier to see about doing it but they were up to their ears in work so I have deferred it. I still use the bass and I guess my fingers have got used to the spacing now so those saddles will be spares for now.