Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: edwardofhuncote on July 24, 2017, 05:00:47 PM
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I've become quite fond of the sidelines on my Custom fretless... for a hard-headed old upright player, they sure do take a lot of the error out of the trial-n-error part of playing fretless bass.
So I guess there are several other acceptable methods to marked fretless basses... side dots, LEDs, ghost frets, etc... I'd love to see a few of them.
Here's mine... now show me yours. ;D
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That's the coolest thing I've ever seen - fret MARKERS!! (And here I thought you could just have a choice between fret lines all across the fingerboard... or NOT!!) Very nice.
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My Orion fretless. Picture courtesy of Mica.
(http://www3.alembic.com/img/inst/13514_sidelinesM.jpg)
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DOH! Another one! (I'm beginning to think I should get out more...)
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My '75 doubleneck has markers for every fret, but I can't remember what kind - it's currently hanging out at the Mothership. I think it's dots for everything - normal dots where they would be on a fretted bass (3, 5, 7, 9, 12, etc.) and then different dots at each fret. Will post a pic soon when I retrieve it - dug through my archives and never took a photo of that aspect!
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It was Growling Tiger that got me on the sidelines train. I didn't want ghost frets and Susan pointed me to it as another option and the rest is history. Again courtesy of Mica.
(http://www3.alembic.com/img/kent_sidelinesm.jpg)
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Just dots on my fretless Orion:
(http://www.fcbass.nl/fretlessdots.jpg)
On the 3th. 5th,7th, 9th, 12th (3 dots) ,15th, 17th, 19th, 21th and 24th (3 dots) position where the fret would be.
My previous fretless had fretlines, I prefer these dots with nothing on the fretboard.
When I had both it did threw me off a little (going from fretlines to blank fretboard and vice versa) So one had to go or be fretted, I think Pierre-Yves is happy with the choice I made. :-)
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The instrument that turned me off to fretless for years was an MIJ fretless Jazz Bass that I got in Tokyo when I was in 10th grade or so. It only had side dots, but they were where they would be on a regular fretted bass! Not where the fret would be. I was too lazy to put in the effort to master it. It wasn't until the doubleneck with its markers "on the fret" that I began to play fretless again.
[size=0px]On the 3th. 5th,7th, 9th, 12th (3 dots) ,15th, 17th, 19th, 21th and 24th (3 dots) position where the fret would be.[/size]
My early-'70s Guild M-85 II has similar markers on the fret - much easier for me. I think if I had a bass custom made I would do that - but with LEDs for those markers?
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Hmm. I suppose Alembic's standard for a fretless model has been side dots positioned at the 3rd, 5th, 7th, and so on...? At least when I see older ones, that seems to be the more commonly seen layout. Cool. 8)
The sidelines on mine were Mica's recommendation, and the decision was made based on the above picture of them on Keith's Custom Orion. I'd have been fine with just bronze dots at the regular intervals, but I have to say the sidelines have somewhat spoiled me. So much that I am starting to wish my upright had them! And the Persuader 5-string is getting a little bit jealous of the extra attention that's been flowing to its smooth-boarded 'sister'. ;D
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If I can ever afford another Alembic build it would be a fretless short scale version of my BoP with fret lines AND side LEDs :)
Without fret lines I think would have had a much more difficult time attempting to transcribe Jaco's solo on Donna Lee, landing those fast position leaps https://youtu.be/8f9Tdnl5u3w (https://youtu.be/8f9Tdnl5u3w)
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I'm also a fan of adding a first position marker on fretless basses. It's a long blank gap up there!
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I have LED markers at the frets on my bass (including non-LED markers at frets 1 & 2), suggesting it was once fretless, but I find markers only at the frets confusing at times. Dots in between the fret markers would be very helpful.
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I have LED markers at the frets on my bass (including non-LED markers at frets 1 & 2), suggesting it was once fretless, but I find markers only at the frets confusing at times. Dots in between the fret markers would be very helpful.
The different positioning of the dots between fretted and fretless basses was something I recall discussing with Susan. I thought it would be somewhat confusing so that added to my reasons for going with sidelines.
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. . . So much that I am starting to wish my upright had them! . . .
Gregory,
I have black 'pin striping tape' that I used as sidelines on my upright, works well.
At one time I was playing the upright enough that my muscle memory didn't need my eyes to see where I was... not so much these days. :-\
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This compliments another recent thread on this subject. This is one of those individual things and whatever works for you is the right choice.
My concept is to make it as easy as possible to play in tune (!!) and since I mostly play fretted bass I want the fretless fingerboard to look the same from my vantage point. So LED side markers and full lines for me. And if possible, a bright light on the fingerboard so I can see what I'm trying to do!
If you play fretless exclusively, or maybe come from cello or upright, then this may be overkill. (I own an upright - though I'm not licensed to operate it - and have several pieces of tape doing edge dots and fret lines like Gregory’s…)
Jimmy J
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I have LED markers at the frets on my bass (including non-LED markers at frets 1 & 2), suggesting it was once fretless, but I find markers only at the frets confusing at times. Dots in between the fret markers would be very helpful.
The different positioning of the dots between fretted and fretless basses was something I recall discussing with Susan. I thought it would be somewhat confusing so that added to my reasons for going with sidelines.
I should mention also, one of the choices on "Chain-Links" that had to be made (I'd almost completely forgotten this...) was where to place the side dots in relation to the fret sidelines. Note how Keith's are up close to the fret line, but I opted to have the bronze side dots in the usual place, as if on a fretted model. Just more weirdness on my part...
One of the more common things I do when setting up upright basses for beginners is marking the neck with side dots, usually I use aluminum wire for this, and only mark down to the octave. It's fairly simple, you just have to measure and mark very carefully before drilling. I have a cheat-chart stapled to the wall with the scale factor... most commonly, I'm dealing with either 41 - 3/4 or 42" scale.
Oddly, I've never done this to my own, main gig bass... ego, I guess. ;)
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(I own an upright - though I'm not licensed to operate it - and have several pieces of tape doing edge dots and fret lines like Gregory’s…)
I would hope so with your family history. ;D
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Good old 77-829 (still a work in progress) just has the occasional small dot for it's darkside markings!
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Oh, and a little ramp at the end for those airplanes that use up all the regular runway!
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I have an upright with no markers which I like. And a electric upright with dots on the side that I like. And a fretless transverse bass with no dots - which I like. Wait - there are no basses I don't like.
Seriously - I love the look of inlaid fret lines. Wish I had me one of those.
R.
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Here's my unlined fretless, which gives me joy.
I follow 1,2,4 fingering below the mid harmonic and 1,2,3 or 1,2,3,4 above, just for intonation reasons. On fretted bass I use 1,2,3,4.
I also daily bow upright for intonation practise. I use a tuner and sometimes drone. Recording is useful to really hear your intonation. Takes work, it is very easy to develop a 'lazy ear'. Bach on fretless is great for playing all over the board, it will get you comfortable with all the notes on your bass. :P
Intonation is a life long challenge! Nice when things sound good.
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Simandl school?
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Simandl school?
Yes!
Funny, the fellow I bought my Alembic from was taught upright by Fred Zimmermann as a youth.
(Fred Zimmermann is the bassist who edited the Simandl method) I still use Simandl today for practise!
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bit of error makes your song alive... ;)
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I love where these threads end up sometimes. :)
I was not classically taught on upright... not even a little. I got mine from the Tommy Jordan Skool of Hard Knocks. "...just go boom-boom-boom, and keep yer mouth shut son..." It was brass-knuckles style... grab it and pound ones and fives, though I didn't even know what numbers had to do with anything.
I learned the really hard way (read - painful) that you can get hurt bad with poor technique. I had to look at, but not touch my bass for 6 months while recovering from acute tendonitis. In that time, I played ukulele to stave off the madness, and read up on Simandl method. One local bass player took time to show me how to apply that to what I was playing. To this day, Mark 'Rabbit' Ramsey remains one of my all-time bass heroes, right up there with Jimmy J, Johnny Mac, etc.
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and to continue the technique thought...
Simandl and proper playing position yada yada...
perhaps my favorite upright bassist is the sloppiest, worst form in the world kind of player, Edgar Meyer, his nut is waaay too high, his fingering arms elbow is way too low, etc. But he can play the poop outta that thing. Technique is for those that can't really play.
Paul (who should really practice on his upright more then he does now)
P.S. The last time I saw Stan in concert I actually enjoyed his upright playing more then his Alembic playing! Blasphemy!!! :o :-[
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P.S. The last time I saw Stan in concert I actually enjoyed his upright playing more then his Alembic playing! Blasphemy!!! :o :-[
I do too. Stanley has said he prefers playing upright which he started with over the bass guitar.
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Ah, Simandl. Gradus ad Parnassus. I think my license to play upright with a bow has been revoked, or if it hasn't, it should be.
I have a totally unlined fretless with markers on the side exactly where they would be on a fretted bass, which is not ideal. But I find that I just need to orient myself - play a scale or two - when I switch over, and the muscle memory does the rest for the most part. But it needs constant attention. I find the same thing switching between transverse and upright basses. But it is a challenge - i think of it as the bassists' Sudoko, it keeps our minds clear and sharp as we age.
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Ah, Simandl. Gradus ad Parnassus. I think my license to play upright with a bow has been revoked, or if it hasn't, it should be.
I have a totally unlined fretless with markers on the side exactly where they would be on a fretted bass, which is not ideal. But I find that I just need to orient myself - play a scale or two - when I switch over, and the muscle memory does the rest for the most part. But it needs constant attention. I find the same thing switching between transverse and upright basses. But it is a challenge - i think of it as the bassists' Sudoko, it keeps our minds clear and sharp as we age.
I have a copy of Simandl that I read through on electric bass every now and then, but I had a different method book when I was at Berklee that I liked a lot better by Édouard Nanny. I left it on a bus and getting a new copy has been a challenge.
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Lemur has the Nanny book.
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Thanks, Casey!
And you are very right about intonation being a matter of constant vigilance. I found that singing lessons helped a lot as it made my sense of the target pitch a lot stronger.
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I have an Essence 5 that has both side dots and "ghost" frets. I put glow in the day tiny stickers on top of the side dots but they no longer glow, I don't need them anymore anyway. I can't really see the "ghost " frets in the dark but that's OK too. I'd love to have side lights but too much $$ to retrofit. Love the bass though, my 5th string is a high C. Stopped at the "mother ship" last Feb for a tour, had a great time. Amazing stuff to see and great folks. So glad you all survived the fires. Videroo
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Oops, should be glow in the dark