Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: rickyrbass on November 04, 2003, 07:22:12 AM
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I was wondering what type of Rigs you guys were using with your Alembics. I know that there are so many rigs out there now that color the tonality far too much. I was wondering if there was one rig in particluar that that most of you were using that would allow the true voice of the Alembic to come through?
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Hey Ricky -
That's a tough question - there's so much that colors the sound along that path of the signal. Much of it is highly subjective - and also dependant on the inherent texture of your particular instrument (ie - the woods that make up your bass and the age of the instrument).
Then again, there is the frame of reference that you may be using as your standard for what the true voice of an Alembic should sound like.
Up until I acquired my Alembic, my struggle was trying to have a distinct voice within a 4-6 piece band... the overtones and fundamentals always seemed to be absorbed and muddied by the room, and the rest of the band.
This is no longer the case - for the first time ever, I now (as well as everyone else) can easily hear me, and all my nuances through the voice of my Alembic. I made a bit of an error and overcompensated for the lack of high end that I had been accustomed to by purchasing a Bag End 4x10 that is loaded with a tweeter - and now I tend to have to go slightly out of my way not to be too bright and trebly - part of the inherent characteristic of the Cocobolo book match to center laminate that I selected for my Rogue (Mica had warned me about that - but I had no idea how bright and distinct it would be). Shortly, I'll be compensating for it with an 1x18 cabinet that is designed to allow me extended low frequency driven by a special intergrator circuit that is made just for that.
I use an Eden WT800 hybrid head - and for the most part just keep all my EQ flat - the Alembic sings on it's own. On occasion, I'll use the EQ section but only to compensate for acoustic flaws in the room (too basey or too trebly of a room - and also depending on the number of people in the room). I like the fact that this head provides me a mosfet pre-amp with tube gain for my 800W of power. This is another subjective call - as I know (and have also tried and resorted to what I have now) that many prefer all solid state (as in Trace Elliott or Galien Krueger), and then there are those that prefer all tube (Mesa Boogie or Ampeg - among others). I almost got an SWR900, but I had heard a lot of bad things about how often they seemed to require maintenance and setteld on the Eden.
As far as cabinets - I've heard (and liked) EBs, Boogies, Ampegs, Bag Ends, Edens & SWRs.... there are many others out there. One thing that may help you narrow down your search is researching the frequency response of the cabs, and also the power handling capacity - this is how I narrowed my search down. At this range of products - they all are quality pieces (relatively)- but also be sure to plug into an amp that you know the tonal charcteristics of and then go into these cabs... they do have different textures and you need the amp to be the baseline so that you can hear the flavor of the cab.
Some of it will also have to do with the electronics that are in your instrument. I also overdid it in that area (but have no regrets). Again, in an effort to ensure that I could cut through and be heard, I had asked that my Rogue be loaded with 2 Q filters (one for each pick up), and 2 sets of tone switches (one set for each pick up) along with Signature electronics. The Alembic is so powerful, distinct and (just can say enough good things about it) amazing, that I really never needed that second set of Q or tone switches - if I use them all at once - my sound tends to be a bit over the top - but it does give me absolute maximum flexibility and allows me an extremely wide range of tonal possibilities - anything I can imagine is at my fingertips!!!!
Just for those other sounds that I may have a bit of trouble reaching, I keep a Sansamp Bass driver at my disposal - rarely use it, but there are gigs where I am called upon to emulate more traditional sounds, and that's when I'll pull it out.
I find that when I use other people's rigs, the Alembic never has trouble cutting through.... as long as there is enough power to drive it.
Good luck - let us know what you settled on!!!
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I'm getting the sound I want to get in my studio playing my short scale series 1 thru a PreSonus vxp mic preamp thru mackie board into gas power amps and yamaha ns1000 speakers. Now to reproduce that sound I have aquired the acme 2x10 cabinet with a mackie power amp and thinking I need either a fx-1 Alembic pre or a Demeter to add a hint of warmth to the Series I's beautiful clear sound. I'm thinking the sf-2 may be more confusion that necessary so to keep things simple I'm searching for a simple tubed analog pre. I've owned the f2-b in the past and with fender basses never had enough gain to my liking but I now see where it would have worked perfectly. Any Alembic pre's out there? My other thought is that alot of these new preamps use simulated tube sounds that in a super clear enviornment, give them selves away. What to do? Any advise welcome. Siggy in Texas
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rrbass:
My gosh, this is SOOO subjective . . .
Chasing the sound in your head thru the choices we make for amps, boy this could fill a LARGE book. And there is no 'right' answer ! So here's some random thoughts looking back over my 25 years:
I see basically two fundamental choices:
1) The basic, fat, less than surgically-clean tone of an old Precision thru a creaky SVT (or any combination that's similar)
2) ...or the REAL clean rig you went to after that: preamp, power amp, cabinet (maybe biamped).
With #1, you're loud enough, but where's the articulation? With #2, now I hear EVERYTHING (gee, I never heard all this FRET NOISE / PICKUP HUM / HISS with the Peavey head ! !), but it's so clean it doesn't sound like it's that loud.
By now, you're sick of calling Allied Van Lines to move your rig, so . . . gee, these ACMEs are nice and small (or 210s, 212s, 410s) . . .
See where this is going? You can 'logical' yourself to the poor house. So, find a tone that's 'you' and build out from there. Always buy more watts than you need. Stick with companies that have been around. Remember that the tones you hear on recordings or in concert are HEAVILY processed in ways that aren't usually reproduceable live with just you and an amp and effect. Always buy the best you can afford, all the way down to good cords.
I recently bought the MESA Venture combo 210 with an add-on MESA 115 cabinet. It's got 'my' tone, MESAs are built to withstand WW3, and it's easy to move, with more than enough watts to fill my needs. This is what I liked out of many choices I could have made.
I'd love to have an f2b, sf2, Lexicon, Crown, BagEnd/ELF component rig, but my life just doesn't require/justify it. THAT would be the ultimate ALEMBIC rig for me, but I don't need 'that much amp' any more.
J o e y
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Ricky-
My simple answer: F1-X into QSC PLX 1602 into BagEnd S15X-D and/or Bergantino HT112.
C-Ya............wayne
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My rig is an EDEN DC210XLT 600W combo sitting on a 410XLT cabinet.
It brings to life everthing from my 60s & 70s Jazz Basses to my custom Alembics.
Best setup I ever had.
Rami
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everybody builds a good amp these days, but for my money the Mesa-boogie 400+ is the best amp I've ever used, bar none
David T
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Good Morning!
I have used a bi-amped Peavey rig for 16 years-Bass 400 head for preamp and lows to a Black Widow 18, Peavey 500 powered 2x10 for the highs. Tone flat, all the clear volume I wanted. But since I am now moving from church to rehearsal to gig to church...I am using a Peavey Bam210. I like the power, the onboard compressor and THE WHEELS. Most gigs have PA support, so I really just need a monitor. And it fits in my convertible and I can leave the Suburban at home! Larry
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Tweak Peaks!
See http://club.alembic.com/Images/394/6134.html?1067089353
Paul the bad one
(Message edited by palembic on November 10, 2003)
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I usually clamp my teeth around the top curve of the bass. It works well and if I need more volume, I just bite down harder. No one else can hear it, but at least it keeps the voices in my head quiet for a while. Just kidding ;)
I use a Hartke 2000 with a Hartke 2x10 w/aluminum cones, Laney 4x10 w/aluminum cones and an old Yamaha 2x15. In case I need more power, I still have my old trustworthy Peavey Mark VI 400 watt head.
Paul II
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Well ...you got a point Brother Paul the good one.
Chuck Rainey explains in one of his books a lot about letting the upper half of the body being the resonance chamber of your bass while practicing.
However ...reading your story we now know 1 thing for sure, your head must be enormous and empty Haaaaaaaaaa-haaaaaaaa LOL
Paul the bad one
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I think I am going to try the Eden stuff.
I currently have a SVT classic with 610 but the clubs I played do not require nearly all of that.
Of course that is a killer rig but as far as clarity goes I think I need to look elsewhere, not to mention giving my back a rest!
I just got a New xlt 410 on a trade and I have a Eden head on the way. I hope it works out!
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A common thread among a number of high end rigs is an F1X preamp into a power amp into fairly hifi bass speakers. I still haven't found the ideal power amp - am not convinced of the musicality of the QSC PLX which I currently use. I use and recommend Acme speakers (for whom I am the Australian rep.)
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Although it seems unpopular here, I use an SVT Classic with an 810...yes it weighs alot, but the cbinet has a built-in dolly and is really fairly easy to move. I have always loved the sound of this rig, and it suits the music we play...sort of an edgy progressive rock ala Rush and Marillion. It also helps that I have a minivan...
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I'll agree with Alembic76407. The Boogie 400+ gives a very tight and focused sound with the added warmth of tubes. But you just have to experiment. You'll know it when you hear (feel) it.
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I use FB-2, Eden WT800, Eden 410XLT, Eden 210XLT.
And I'm very pleased with the sound of my 76 Series 1.
Harald
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I am feeling very comfortable now with my current stack : 2 SWR Goliath 4 x 10, and a SWR MO bass running 900 Watts in mono. When we play in very small places or at rehearsels, one cab is enoough of course. I like the Mo Bass a lot, very nice clean tube sound, and when needed here and there some crazy analogue effects to throw in. I can carry the cabs myself, but when they are going in a flightcase for transport, I can't handle it myself any more. I used to play Trace Elliot for years, but when I moved to SWR last year, it was like a complete new Alembic I heared ;-)
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To keep it simple, I mostly use a Mesa Boogie M-2000 with all setting flat. A bit of compression that's all. I use two Hevos 2x 10 cabs. These are made here in the Netherlands and have a very tight sound. Plus they are very light. (Saves my back).
For recordings I use a combination of the F-1x and Sf2.
I want to try the new Line 6 19 pod pro xt which have all kinds of amps and effect in it, but I'm not sure of it yet. Does anybody have any experience with that new amp?
Manfred
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In church I use a Furman PQ-3 (sometimes supplemented with a BBE Sonic Maximizer and/or a Rane 1/3 octive EQ) through a Peavey CS-800 (bi-amped at 250 Hz) through a 1 x EV-15L cabinet on the lows and a 2 x EV-10L cabinet (my own design) on the highs. It sounds great to me, and I almost never have to move it.
At home (for teaching) I use a Hartke 200 w head through a 1 x EV-15M cabinet.
If I were ever to play anywhere other than home or church again, I?d probably use the church rig with an additional 1 x 15 cabinet. If I needed to be really loud I?d break out my second CS-800 and a pair of Mitchell Bose-800 clones from the 70s.
Given that I don?t play anywhere anymore and the ridiculous price of new amplifiers, I?m unlikely to upgrade my amps anytime soon (although there was that use BGW-750C for $150?)
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FMM - I use a Furman PQ-3 too. It gives a nice punchy tone, but takes a lot of fiddling around until you get used to it.
I have wondered about the parametric EQ that Alembic used to make in the early 70's. Was that a 3 band unit? Is that where the PQ-3 got it's start? Mica? Anyone?
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I usually use an F1-X pre-amp and a Superfilter, powered by a Stewart 2.1 power amp. The sound is warm and clean, with just the right amount of crunchy growl (that's a technical term) and it really matches with an Alembic. Lately, because I'm doing a project where the leaders want a more traditional tone, I've been using a Mesa-Boogie MPulse 600. It also sounds great with the Alembic, though I would describe the tone as boomier and less accurate - which is not necessarily bad.
For cabinets, I mix and match depending upon the gig. I have fallen in love with the Eden 410XST (not the XLT). The amount of low end that cab puts out is absolutely ungodly, but the 10 drivers are quick enough to accurately reproduce the incredible punch of a Series bass. If you haven't played the 410 XST, I urge you to check one out.
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F1-X with SF-2 into Crest CA-6 powering SVT-810 is the usual rig. Also have Eden WT800, 410XLT.
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Hey Manfred. Even een berichtje van een landgenoot...
i've been using the Bass Pod Pro for almost a year now. And it's very usefull tool. In cooperation with our (FOH) soundengineer I've made some presets, so I can change sounds any time I want with the tip of my toe.
Recently the new Bass Pod Pro XT appeared, and has much improvements. Now you can actually see the settings you've made. So to give you an advice, if you like the way the Pod sounds and works, then go for the XT version!!!
In my case, my 'sound' goes directly out of the Pod to mixing console. The band I play in doesn't use any bacline onstage. Everything goes with a multiple in-ear monitoring system. In this case you get a very low stage volume. Everybody in the band can make their own mix depending on what they want to hear on the little earphones. In some cases I put a very small Ashdown combo onstage to get a bit more 'feel' to the sound.
The main advantage of working like this; we don't have to do soundchecks anymore. Everytime I plug in, all my sounds, and everything I wanted to hear is exact as it was the day before. And off course we don't hussle around with big speaker cabinets onstage anymore. It saves a lot of room in the truck, so we can take a lot of other stuff (read: lights, video, truss etc.) with us. Yes, yes, we have roadies that take care of all that... but they need to have something to do.... ; )
Btw. the Ashdown combo is a amazing thing, very lightweight, compact, with an enormous sound.. Check those out!
And for the those who would like some more speakers: I have a Hartke XL410 speakercabinet for sale! In flightcase!
Cu
Mattheus
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Depends on the venue. If I need BIG, I'll run stereo to two stacks, each pickup through an Ampeg SVT4-Pro in the bridged mode (1300w each) driving an Ampeg 4x10/1x15 and 4x10/1x18. If it's a smaller club, I use an SVT2-Pro with a 4x10/1x15. At home I have a F-2B with a McIntosh MC2300 (128lbs., that's why it's at home) and a pair of JBL D140's. I think I want 'little earphones' like Mattheus.
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My rig:
I use the old demeter 201s preamp with the Hughes and Kettner head and cabinet (BC410). I'm on a lookout for a tube head, but the Demeter preamp already does its job very very well.
The bass: Orion 5.
Jure
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If there only were earphones that sounded like a huuuuge Ampeg rig......
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Hi Mattheus,
Yes, I really want to try the bass pod xt. Is has several amp models in it. I only need one, but in combination with all the effects, sounds good to me. I am a bit tired of carrying all my old stompboxes and everything, which you only use in particular parts of a song, not the whole song. I hope it's a reliable thing. I've been using the Line 6 stompboxes for a while and never had any problems with it. If flat settings aren't colouring my sound too much, I think I'll go for it.
Thanks,
Manfred
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I use this:
Bass :Series 1
Pre amp :EBS 1
Power amp :Mackie 2X700W
Spekers :JBL 2X15 +1X2 driver
Effects :Akai Deep Impact synth bass
:Akai Uni Bass harmonized dist (goes into an 1972 Marshall superlead or fender dual showman to an old Fender Leslie with a 12EV speaker)
:Boss ME5 for delay
:Morley wah-wah
:Boss CE1 chorus (after crossover)
:Electro-harmonix Big Muff
:Mutron III Envelope
Onley very old junk................
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I have been using an older red-faced SWR 350 head before they added the switch for the cooling fan. I run that through two Eden 210XLT cabinets. I like this format because depending on the size of venue I can bring one or two cabs and it doesn't change the character of my tone much. Occasionally I will use a Boss Synth and Dynamic Wah pedals for fun. I would love to upgrade the head though. I would love to get an all tube head. Maybe and Eden or Mesa Boogie Buster head. My practice amp is a Sovtek 50W bass head run though a SWR Workingman's 110 cabinet. I also have the matching Sovtek 15 inch cabinet if I want that old Ampeg Portaflex sound. That all tube Sovtek head sounds great, especially after it has been cookin' for a couple of hours. I A/B'd it with a SWR Electric Blue head and ended up selling the SWR because the Sovtek Sounds better.
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Here it is... Series I, F2B Preamp, ELF system, QSC Powerlite and Bag End Cabinets (S15D, and D10EXD ).
http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/590.html?1023033895 (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8502)
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Bassicthing - how do you like the Boss CE1? How does it compare to the CE5? Have you checked out other Chorus units?
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OK prepare to be amazed.
I use a Hartke B15 combo. That's 15 watts of raw power bursting through a single eight inch speaker. Yeah, I can hear the gasps of astonishment now.
The best part is it's a sound that's easily replicated through earphones.
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Mmmm, if I could only get those B15 combo's to fit in my ears..... ; )
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I went through virtually all the amps and cabs in the music stores in the city where i live and found that the only one that made my SC Deluxe sing like i wanted it to was the Mesa Boogie. Not needing hundreds of watts of raw power since most of my gigs are backline and PA or small jazz clubs.
I went for a complete Mesa rig of the 300w Walkabout head, 2x10 and 1x15 powerhouse range of cabs the sound is as clear and crisp and as mellow as I want and important to me.. no distortion. I used to use a bit of compression but now I just plug straight in and control the dynamics myself. The sound engineer can sort out front of house. Saying that I'd love to try it with an 18 bass bin just the once... :-)
For practice at home or the odd living room rehearsal session i have a peavey microbass which is real nice.
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I ended up picking up a TL Audio Ivory series 5051 tubed preamp with a fast compress, selectible frequency eq, and input levels for the series 1 bass I play and it runs thru a mackie 1400 power amp to a Acme 2x10 low b cabnet and again I'm blown away buy the warm clear deep punchy bass sound I am getting. Then I plugged my 62 fretless jazz bass into it and wow. I really like this preamp and the way it's layed out.
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I used to have a Trace Elliot AH500X with three cabinets but after buying the Swedish EBS amp with 800W and six 10 inch speakers I'd say that's it! That really kicks your bottom and the clarity and quality of the sound is unbelievable! (you know, it's not only nice blonds that come from Sweden..!) I highly recommend this amp if some of you ever happen to have a chance to try one.
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i'm currently using a swr 2004 and an old acoustic 370 heads. i have a peavey 1/15 and a peavey 4/10 botttoms. i run the swr thru the 1/15 for the lows and the acoustic thru the 4/10 for the highs. i use a morley ab footswitch so i can get any combination of the two. i have an epic 4 and use no other effects. this set-up, while not state of the art, sounds incredible. i guess it has to do with the bass. i can get almost any tone i need. the set-up was cheap and works great. it seems the swr, in particular, is a great fit for my bass.
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I don't know if anyone has seen the new offerings by BOSE, but it looks like the ideal solution to the portability/weight issue...although its cost may pose yet another issue...Check it out @ www.BOSE.com (http://www.BOSE.com)
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My big rig consists of a Demeter HBP-1, an SF2, a BBE 461, a Rane DC24 and a Crown PowerBase 2, into a Pacific 15 Thiele cab with a Fane Colossus 15 for the low end, and an Ampeg SVT 410HE for the top end.
My combo amp is now a Boogie Scout, which is *almost* loud enough to make me get rid of the big rig. In fact, it's loud enough to cover any situation that doesn't dictate earplugs.
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MICA, can either you or your dad comment about the BOSE single/double bass system being used with a series bass. I spoke with Jerry from BOSE and he said that it provides 180 degrees of FULL coverage. Ultimate combination? ALEMBIC series bass & BOSE?
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my rig is a korg digital tuner, alembic f1-x preamp, alembic sf-2 superfilter, dbx 160a compressor, aphex 104 aural exciter, 2 crown power
base 3 amplfiers, art sgx nightbass for effects,
2 eden xlt 410 cabinets and 2 1x15 cabinets with
jbl e-140 & e145 drivers.could easily level the place with this setup. also a swr super redhead for practice but it seems a little small after playing the big stuff
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Haven't ever heard the BOSE stuff. A monitorless system where the band and the audience hear the same thing is familiar to us though.
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Willie ..welcome.
Hahaaaaaa trying to sneak in silently he!
Got you brother!!!
What you descibe is a MONSTER-RIG ...manman ...we have to call David the loud one here!
So may I ask you to climb into your pocket clickon camera and plaese provide us somw pictures in th eappropriate departement. Id' really love to know how you put everything together!
Paul the bad one
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okay, I'll sneak in too.
I have a fx-1, stewart 2.1 poweramp, into an accugroove el whappo and whappo grande (21 sub). I use a Boss GT-3 to boost the input into the stewart / el whappo and add some color (chorus, slight reverb).
Probably not quite as loud as Willie's 2 amp set-up, but if turn up the 21 sub and hit an open note on my low f# string (20hz), I can make you all sterile. That's BASS! ;-)
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paul
a monster it is. only problem is finding people to
help move it. but it sounds great. plug in my europa and crank it up a little and its a religous
experience. for some reason the U.S. geological
survey people keep showing up at my door whenever
i play through it, something about the a 7.6 tremor on the richter scale. i'll have to figure out how to get some pictures into this site, i've read stuff on it before but today is the first time posting anything, but i figured i'd start, been playing alembic's since 1982
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Hey Jean & Willie welcome to the group.
You guys must be playing in stadiums with those setups. You gotta love anything called el whappo.
I think I have a neighbor with one of those in his Accura.
Sam
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My rig is pretty simple ... an Ampeg SVT IV Pro with Ampeg BXT 115 HLF and BXT 410HLF cabinets ...
I do the biamp thing with the 410HLF cabinet in full range mode. Sounds great to me.
I use an Ampeg BA-115 for practice.
Regards,
Alan
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(Message edited by jeffbass4 on November 22, 2003)
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It's interesting to read everyone's input on the highly subjective issue.
After playing my 1985 Alembic Distillate w/Cocobolo through several amps in different gig situations, my rig which suits me best and has been very reliable over tons of gigs is an Ampeg SVT IIP pre-amp into an SWR stereo 800 power amp, into an Ampeg 8x10 SVT cab. I love the punch, clarity and agressiveness of this amp. For added spice I run through a Yamaha rack mount Bass Multi-effects that I use for a little overdrive,EQ and compression. It may be big and heavy but there is no substitute for the sound. A previous poster was correct also. With the rear casters it is easier to move around than a 4x10 cabinet,or similar mid-size cabinets, and it helps to have a van to haul it in. :-)
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What advantages if any is there to an 8x10 vs two 4x10? I'm curious about the pros & cons. It seems the two 4x10s would be easier to move around but a lot of people seem to like the 8x10. I'm in the research stage of looking for a new rig and there have been several helpful posts here recently.
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Bracheen,
As far as moving around a cabinet, the 8x10 (165 lbs.) has the kick-back casters and the upper rear bar which lets you dolly the cabinet around fairly easily. Weight is only a factor when getting it on or off stage if there are several steps, or when moving it up or down a hill. With a 4x10 cab (generally 90+ lbs.), you'll want a dolly, or a helper. It's certainly tougher to man-handle one by yourself. I've used SWR 4x10 cabs and the Ampeg 8x10. I can't explain why it seems different, only that the 8x10 seems to have more bottom, more girth and punch, (the way you feel it when you get a little volume to the sound), than the 4x10's. Good luck in your search.
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I've got a kludge of 3 setups I use, and I swap the pieces around depending on what I feel like carrying around. For preamps, I have a custom 2-channel dual-showman-ish tube unit with an integrated power supply for the bass, an ART tube preamp with parametric eq and compression (I love the sound of this unit), and a Line 6 Bass Pod Pro. The Bass Pod Pro sounds great, but could use a low-range parametric and has been back to the factory for problems twice in one year, so I haven't used it nearly as much as the others. For power, I have a couple of ancient (at least 40 years old) 200 watt mono Bogen industrial tube amps and a Peavey DECA 1200. The Bogens sound incredible! The Peavey sounds good too. I have no complaints there. I use an Ashley X-over when I choose to biamp, and a cheap Alesis stereo compressor (3630 I think) after the X-over to run different ratios on the highs and lows. Sometimes I also run the signals through a BBE. Oh, and I have an old Peavey Mark III bass head that has literally been under water, but it works. For cabinets, I have an old Lab Series 1-15, and Dr. Fong 1-18 with a Peavey Black Widow in it, a couple of 2-10 cabinets and a MusicMan 4-12 loaded with Black Widows (very, very heavy). I mix and match depending on venue/genre/weight. The Dr. Fong puts out the deepest bass, the 4-12 really punches and I can lift the Lab Series. Mostly I let the P.A. do the work. People who have never played with a big PA doing the work (and a good FOH engineer) don't know what they are missing. I love the sound of the bass coming back at me from the front, especially the ringing lows...
I once designed and built a 2-18 isobaric cabinet which put out the absolute deepest bass I've ever felt, but my soundman made me stop using it because it put out too much really, really deep bass... :-(
john
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Quite simple for my Europa 5:
F1x (Korg DTR1 tuner used but not in the loop)
QSC PLX 1602 (bridged)
Eden 410XLT - 8 ohm
Eden 410T - 8 ohm
I was using an SWR 750X until I went with the component route - love the sound I have now.
BTW - the 750X is up for sale.
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Here's one of my rigs. http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/1941.html?1033976607 (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=9215) Sometimes I use a Sunn 300T with a couple JBL 15s. I love a tube sound with just a little distortion by attacking the strings a bit harder.
gale
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I just revamped my rig this last couple of weeks. I love my Ashdown ABM 500 head but I decided to go the bi-amp route. So I got an F1x and a stereo power amp.
F1-x preamp
SF2 Superfilter
Dbx 1066 compressor limiter (which is often in bypass)
Lexicon MPX 500
Behringer EP2500 power amp
2x10 SWR Goliath JR
1x15 Ashdown ABM cabinet
I use the crossover to split the signal with the lows going to Ashdown and the highs to SWR, of course.
The Behringer really blew me away. Apparently the Behringer EP series is a pretty good copy of the QSC PLX line. The EP 2500 has 750W per side at 4 ohm and 450 at 8. 2400W bridged at 4 ohm. I only paid about 300$ for it brand new from the store I used to work at.
I've played it only at home so far, and I'm unlikely to play anywhere else soon with that rig, but so far it sounds great.
I loved bi-amping in studio monitors from the get-go, I can't figure out why I didn't try it on bass much sooner. It's soooo flexible...gives you a load more sounds available, just by nudging the crossover or giving a bit more power to one side...and that's without even touching the superfilter or the bass controls...many days of tweaking ahead...
If anyone is interested in the Ashdown, let me know by e-mail; it's in great condition, never gigged, only about 1 & 1/2 years old. Box & manual included.
Valentino
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I play my Alembic Orion Six through an Eden Metro with an Accugroove Tri-112.
Wally
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PREAMPS:
F1-X
SF-2 (seldom used)
alternate with
SWR IOD
AMP:
STEWART 1.2
Speaker:
EA CXL-112
Also:
SWR baby Blue II
(Message edited by Yggdrasil on November 28, 2003)
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What I really love about the Wickershams is that they are modest and self-effacing to a fault . . . when Mica says that 'they are familiar with a sound system where the band and the audience hear the same thing' . . . well, read this link to fill in what she DIDN'T say:
www.dozin.com/WallofSound.asp# (http://www.dozin.com/WallofSound.asp#)
. . . I'd CERTAINLY say they're familiar with the idea !
J o e y
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You can say that again, I have a brochure from Alembic which shows a picture from that 'Wall of Sound'.
Now I know what I want..... 18 x 15 speakers; let the battle begin..... shake it baby...
Mattheus
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I have a Roland guitar amp which sounds great for around the house and recording. It has 8 - 8 inch speakers. The wide frequency range of these speakers work great with my Epic. For band situations, I use a GK RB800 with a Eden 4x10. The Roland sounds better.. I use a ART Tube MP as a boost to get a hot signal.
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Just to complete the list: My signal chain is a 94 MK Std --> F1-X --> TC Triple C Compressor (Mono) --> QSC RMX2450 (parallel mono) --> SWR 8*10 Megoliath (each chamber driven by one PA channel). I use the balanced signal (post EQ) from the F1-X to drive the house mix. Since I play my MK STD I mostly switch off the compressor. At next occasion I want to replace it by a SF-2.
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I'm running my Orion thru TE-AH300, Basson B15b 15 cab, Hartke 4.5XL, Behringer Bass V-amp Pro /w Sunn Coliseum 300 for backup. The Sunn sounds smoother and sweeter than the Trace-Elliot, but power do win out.
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I am using a bone stock Peavey Session 500 with the original 15 Black Widow speaker. On stage I typically run the XLR on the back of this amp directly to the sound board for the sound person to mix. And I use the session 500 more like a monitor. I set the amps speaker volume with the master-volume which on this amp is really a gain control for the power amp stage of the amp.
It works very well for what I run through it: 4 string bass, U14 Pedal Steel (B6/E9), D-10 Pedal Steel, various guitars (including my Alembic), and most recently a Korg Z3 Guitar-Synth.
I have a reworked Hafler 500 that I plan to use for the 6-string bass I am working up the nerve to order. I think that the Session 500 would be unsatisfactory for the 6 string bass. It may well be OK for the low-B string however the low-F# string (which I anticipate tuning to F, F#, or G at various times) will surely run it out of headroom.
I have no idea what cabinets the 6 string Bass will demand.
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Right now, a Crate BFX-115. Playing my Alembic through that is...unkind. Something like drinking Dom Perginone out of a paper cup...
However, a reliable source has informed me I'll have a nice shiny (almost) new SWR Bass 350 under the tree in a week or two ;) I've already planned to pair it up with an Avatar 4x10 (http://www.avatarspeakers.com/b410.htm). That should finally let me here what this thing should sound like ;)
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I am new to this group but thought I would weigh in with my boat anchor setup:
Peterson digital strobe tuner
ART tube preamp
BBE Max Bass preamp (this unit recently replaced my 20 yr old Ashley preamp and Ashley Lim/comp)
3 - old Crown DC300a's (one of which I am the original owner)
2 - 1x15 Trace Elliot bass bins w/EV speakers
1 - 4x12 custom built folded horn (sounds great with my fretless)
I just bought a SC Deluxe and expect that it will sound fine through this system. This is a rediculous system for me now since I no longer have time to gig - but I just can't part with it. I'm looking to buy something more reasonable. Something in the 60 - 100w range, probably a combo of some sort. Not sure what to get.
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He Greg; welcome to the group and congrats on your purchase of a very nice bass. If you get a chance you may want to post pictures of your bass in the Showcase section as for some reason many of the members of this group enjoy looking at Alembic basses .
I don't know how you plan to use the combo, but in my personal opinion a 60 to 100 watt range is very limiting. (But then I'm always thinking I need more power .) But more important than the output, the combo must sound good with your Alembic. For instance there was a recent discussion here concerning an SWR Workingmans Combo in which most posters who had owned or played through the Workingmans found that it did not allow the full tone of their Alembics to come through. On the other hand, there may be others who own Workingmans combos and are happy with them. And I suppose not all Workingmans are alike. So what do you plan to use your combo for, just practicing by yourself, jamming with a band, playing gigs?
(Message edited by davehouck on December 19, 2003)
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Dave, I'm glad you brought up the watts range.
What is a good range for medium sized clubs? I realize that any answers will be opinion. I'm doing some research into buying something maybe next year and haven't much experience with it. In addition to watts is there pros and cons on 4ohm vs 8ohm? Any insight would be appreciated, not just from Dave.
Sam
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There are a number of people in this group that know a lot more about this stuff than I do; plus I tend to research issues and then forget what I've learned over time .
I switched to 4 ohm cabs after I acquired an Eden WT-800. The Eden is designed to handle 4 ohms per channel (400 watts each) in two channel mode or 8 ohms bridged single channel. I have no idea why it's designed that way; but it is, so that's why I decided to switch to 4 ohm cabs. (There may have been other reasons and I remember researching the issue for a while, but I no longer remember what the other reasons were .)I added two 4 ohm Eden 210 XLT's; they matched the head in watts (350 each) and ohms.
I'm not sure what a medium size club is; but I thought that rig put out a lot of good quality sound. Later, I wanted to improve my low end sound so I substituted an Acme B210 for one of the Edens and then picked up a QSC PLX 2402 to power it. As we've discussed here before the Acme is very inefficient and requires a lot of power; the 2402 puts out 700 on a side into 4 ohms and while I don't turn it up all the way I've been running it pretty close while leaving the output on the channel with the Eden around it's 400 watt level. Then I added the F1-X and took the WT-800 out of the rig.
To my way of thinking, the power you need is in large part determined by your sound. I tend to think that the sound I'm after is clean with a big warm low end and enough high mid to cut through the guitar. I use an SF-2 to warm the low end over a specific frequency range and also to give me a wide and even range for the mid high part of the tone. The lower the frequency, the greater the power requirement. Thus to get a big warm low end I want a lot of power. Plus to get the volume I want to push a clean tone to where it can compete with the guitar also requires a lot of power. If your not after a big, warm, clean low end and if you don't need to cut through the guitars, then you don't need nowhere near the power that I think I need. If your sound features a compressed over-driven mid to low mid tone, then again you will not need as much power.
The good thing about 8 ohm cabs is that you can run two of them in parallel and give the amp a 4 ohm load. If you run two 4 ohm cabs parallel then you get a 2 ohm load, and a lot of amps don't like that.
To be honest, with the tone I'm trying to get and when playing with two guitars and a drummer in a rock band, the two Eden 210 XLT's are not enough to fill a medium size club without also running through the house system. (But it sounds great on stage!) But lots of players play with less power than the WT-800 and are happy with their sound.
When you read back through the posts in this thread, there are players running 300 watts and there are players running 800 watts. To me, it has a lot to do with your tone, the type band your playing in, and whether you're running a direct out to the PA.
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Hi Dave, and thanks for the welcome.
My system provides me 1200w on the conservative side - More than I will ever need again I am sure. There was a time when I needed that much horse power. Fortunately the guitar player had top of the line gear (in stereo) so we had a clean but loud sound. I am looking for something more reasonable for practicing and maybe an occasional jam here and there. I can't even move my current system. I drive a 3 series BMW now instead of a panel van so I have space considerations in my transportation. My Crown power amps are very efficient and of course very clean. I am waiting for the Alembic to be delivered on Monday - bought it used for $1,775.00 - a SC Deluxe I think it's a pretty good deal. So, I'm looking for a small but very good sounding amp and for practicing 60 - 100w is fine. I used to have a B-60 flip top and later had a B-30 Flip top both sounded great. The B-30 was only $350 new. Now you can't touch one of those for under $600 very used. Oh well. Any amp ideas would be appreciated. - thanks
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Greg; I don't own a combo but the first things I think of are the Eden Metro and SWR Redhead. But those are bit pricy if all you need is something for practicing. Here's an article from Bassplayer that reviews several combo amps. Ironically given what's been discussed here before, the Workingmans amps score well.
http://archive.bassplayer.com/z1999/9907/combo1.shtml (http://archive.bassplayer.com/z1999/9907/combo1.shtml)
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Greg,
I think people are not liking the Workingman 15 model, which has the 15 speaker + tweeter, and a semi-parametric mid. I haven't actually played one, but generally speaking it doesn't surprise me that a 15 speaker sounds a little honky.
Then again the SWR tone controls let you do a lot of adjusting, and you can soon adjust your way out of a decent tone - add to that what you can adjust on your Alembic, and you can be lost in space. The big problem with SWR amps is that people often think that the Aural Enhancer is a boost/cut control, while it's a boost-only control, and it can really mess up your tone.
By the way, I've heard horrible sounds coming out of Eden rigs ... It's not what the amp can do for you, it's what you can do with the amp.
I love the Workingman 12 model. If you're looking for a pleasant tone, start with all the controls in neutral, and the Aural Enhancer turned down completely, and work from there. This combo will fill small-sized jazz clubs nicely, provided that other amplified sounds are not very loud.
I also played the Baby Baby Blue in a shop - a 160W 10 + tweeter pro-level amp, with a multi-band parametric eq. Even with an active Fender Jazz, and the controls in neutral, it gave out a very sweet tone with plenty of highs (tube pre-amp). But I got the feeling that it didn't push a lot of air, even with the master volume at 5. Perhaps an extension cabinet would help there. It's about 10 pounds lighter than the Workingman 12, but unfortunately also more expensive.
Not sure what will happen to SWR now that they've been bought by Fender ... Check out old stock in shops.
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Greg
My recommendation for a versatile small rig would be an Acme Low B2 plus an Acoustic Image Clarus amplifier.
The B2 only weighs about 50 lbs - but is a very serious loudspeaker 40Hz - 22kHz +/- 3dB and -6dB at low B. Max continuous power 375W. The flat, wide frequency response is ideal for Alembic basses.
The Clarus virtually disappears, weighing only 7lbs - you can carry it over your shoulder in the supplied bag while you're carrying the B2. 200W into 4 ohms. Plenty of tone shaping controls. Also very hi-fi.
This rig was a surprise hit at the Aussie Alembic launch where it sounded great with an Excel doing jazz/funk in a 100 seat venue. (Although, to be honest, you wouldn't want to go much bigger / louder than that.)
The B2 can be partnered with bigger amplifiers for larger gigs - but doesn't need to be driven hard to sound good.
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Thanks to all for the advice. I will look into each suggestion and let you know what I decide. I've been out of the loop for about 8 years so some of this stuff I have not heard of. Is the B2/Clarus brands available in the US? I'm in So. California. Thanks again to all and have a great holiday.
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Acme is based just outside Denver, CO - they use a Dell style factory to customer business model: www.acmebass.com (http://www.acmebass.com)
Acoustic Image is based in Raleigh, NC. They tend to sell through boutique style dealers: www.acousticimg.com (http://www.acousticimg.com)
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Thanks David,
I'll check them out - Is this the correct forum for requesting historical info on a bass?
thanks
greg
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Hi there Greg, and welcome to the club. Have you visited your local Guitar Center Store lately? If not, you may want to drop in and check out the BOSE
PAS(Personal Amplification System) Go to www.BOSE.com (http://www.BOSE.com)
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Greg
If you want information on a particular instrument start a new thread under Alembic Basses and Guitars with your request.