Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Dreaming... for now => Topic started by: kdh on April 07, 2017, 12:06:54 PM
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I've been doing a lot of reading here and have gotten most of the way to a spec for a new build through Mike at basscentral.
Sort of a "black and white" theme. I'm going for some (sonic) brightness with the maple. I'd love any thoughts:
NECK FEATURES
4 string
Right-handed
Short scale 30-3/4 inches
1 Ebony neck laminate
Fretted
Classic fingerboard taper (narrow bridge)
Silver dot side position markers
Orion inline peghead
BODY FEATURES
Flame Maple top
Maple body
Oil finish
Essence body shape
HARDWARE FEATURES
Silver logo (no script)
No bridge block
Bar tailpiece
Brass backplate (for model electronics)
Black Alembic Gotoh machine heads
ELECTRONICS FEATURES
Essence electronics
Q Switch (two-position)
I've asked Mica and Susan about whether the upper horn should be shortened somewhat to make the bass physically balance correctly as a 4 string short scale. This might guide somewhat going with a tummy contour or not.
I saw some pictures of a rounded bar tailpiece that I believe is different from what's in the spec.
Accent laminate in a dark wood.
I'm leaning away from a bridge block based on the effect a massive bridge, a Badass, had on my P-bass, and from what I've read here.
I'm also considering a side-mounted jack.
What am I missing?
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I'd recommend going with the 3way q switch. Most people who have had the 2way q and then replace it with the 3 way definitely appreciate the extra setting.
Any fretboard markers on the front?
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I'd recommend going with the 3way q switch. Most people who have had the 2way q and then replace it with the 3 way definitely appreciate the extra setting.
Any fretboard markers on the front?
Thanks.
The 8db resonance at the breakpoint of the low pass filter seems a bit gimmicky to me, though I have no experience with it. I always play with volume and tone all the way up (wired out, actually) and adjust downstream. I imagine I'll practically always have the Q turned off.
I like the minimalism and look of no fretboard markers. I'm hoping the sidemarkers are sufficient.
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Without a Q-switch the default setting is 8db boost at the filter frequency setting.
I wouldn't call the switch gimmicky as it adds an addition way to color the sound. Of course a lot depends on the type of music and your playing style as to whether you would use it much. I have typically played a wide range of styles in the bands I've played with. Where I've found it useful is when switching to a slap style or during a solo with the filters fully open. I can then turn them off and be back to a more traditional bass tone. Depending upon the filter setting it can also help get rid of that last bit muddiness some rooms have.
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I'd recommend going with the 3way q switch. Most people who have had the 2way q and then replace it with the 3 way definitely appreciate the extra setting.
Any fretboard markers on the front?
Thanks.
The 8db resonance at the breakpoint of the low pass filter seems a bit gimmicky to me, though I have no experience with it. I always play with volume and tone all the way up (wired out, actually) and adjust downstream. I imagine I'll practically always have the Q turned off.
I like the minimalism and look of no fretboard markers. I'm hoping the sidemarkers are sufficient.
+1 on a 3-position Q-switch. If you already imagine you'll be leving te Q-switch in the off position because ro 8 dB hump is a little much, the I highly recommend the 3-position option. I have both, on two different basses, and can tell you from experience I leave it off on my Distillate with it's stock 2-position switch, but I use the 3-position Q-switch frequently on my Persuader, which now has Essence electronics. In fact, I just talked to Mica later week about upgrading my old Distillate's electronics and exchanging the 2-position Q-switch for a 3-way.
Congrats on the decision to go the custom route... there's nothing quite like hammering out every detail. You're 90% of the way there. 8)
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+1 on a 3-position Q-switch. If you already imagine you'll be leving te Q-switch in the off position because ro 8 dB hump is a little much, the I highly recommend the 3-position option. I have both, on two different basses, and can tell you from experience I leave it off on my Distillate with it's stock 2-position switch, but I use the 3-position Q-switch frequently on my Persuader, which now has Essence electronics. In fact, I just talked to Mica later week about upgrading my old Distillate's electronics and exchanging the 2-position Q-switch for a 3-way.
Congrats on the decision to go the custom route... there's nothing quite like hammering out every detail. You're 90% of the way there. 8)
Looks like the 2-position is 0/8db and the 3-position is 0/6/9db. Do you ever use the 9db position on the Persuader?
You guys obviously know way more than I do.
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Pretty sure there is a 0/3/6 option as well.... but i could be wrong.
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Also think the 3-position Q switch is a good option. You may use it only sporadically at first but you may find over time (as many do) that it was a valuable addition. It is going to make it easy to change the attack of each note in conjunction with how the filter is set. IMO the filter plus Q switch is key to why the Alembic instruments are so versatile. Being able to change the resonant frequency and attack allows you to emulate the sound of other pickups and craft your own individual tone. I was going to suggest the bridge block then noticed you already gave it consideration. Once again I find the block to be beneficial. If there is any way for you to play an Alembic with and one without I highly recommend doing so before making a final decision. One of the members here, Wolf (Sonicus), recently had a bridge block added to his Essence and it may be worth getting his feedback to "before and after" tonally. He has a number of Alembics and is familiar with how the various models sound.
The Alembic pups/electronics while warm sounding and musical do have a lot of high end available so I don't think you need to worry about sonic brightness. IMO maple over maple will be quite bright. Have you given any thought to maple over mahogany? It would help warm the tone and add a touch of depth without sacrificing high-end or clarity. Visually the contrast of the two woods would look nice especially if you aren't going with an accent trim on the body.
Last suggestion would be to keep an eye on the monthly specials at Alembic. LED side markers are an excellent thing to have and sometimes can be added to an order for a new build at little to no cost via the monthly special. I sure wish my Series bass had them, the silver side markers can be hard to see under some stage lighting and it doesn't look like you are getting any inlays on the fingerboard.
Must be exciting to put together a build to your own specs best of luck with your endeavor!
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Mine is 0-3-6, respectively... 8 db is too much for me, 9 would be almost un-usable.
Mica discussed with me first what my tastes and playing style was before advising the 3-position. Sounds like you and I may be in the same category, but I would definitely talk to the Mothership about it.
Another +1 for keeping an eye on monthly specials. ;)
http://www.alembic.com/info/special.html
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I'm with Stephen on the bridge block. Over the years I have had 5 Alembics, all different models, 4 with and 1 without.
If at this point I found a nice one without the block, I am thinking I would pass on it. Great choice on the Essence, after my
Series I, that is my favorite electronics package. I, too would consider the 3 position switch at 0-3-6. Good luck with the build.
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I'm not understanding the shortening of the upper horn.
Alembic normally moves the bridge forward on the body to account for the shorter scale in order to keep access to the 24th fret relatively available. On my 32" scale Essence, I had them keep the bridge in the normal location. Though I rarely go there, access to the 24th fret is fine. I suggest leaving the horn as it is.
In addition to the comments above, I would suggest considering a FatBoy pickup in the bridge position.
Good luck.
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This is really useful.
What are the characteristics of the FatBoy? Warmer?
My basic timbre I'd describe as "unadulterated bright," really a "straight through" kind of sound, which makes the basic sound of the instrument critical. I don't want boomy, and I'm fine controlling high frequencies with my playing rather than with filters. I like the capability of a melodic sound straight from the strings.
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Before you move to much more forward, I would suggest playing a number of Alembics. I think that once you get a sense of what they are really about, you'll find uses for the filters and the Q switches (I have to say I love the CVQ, but that's getting into a whole other world.). It's one thing to talk about all these things, it's quite another to get them under your fingers. It takes a while to really understand what the response of the filter system is like, but it's better to get it all figured out now, before you finalize the order. You might discover that there's a lot more going on than controlling high frequencies.
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Before you move to much more forward, I would suggest playing a number of Alembics. I think that once you get a sense of what they are really about, you'll find uses for the filters and the Q switches (I have to say I love the CVQ, but that's getting into a whole other world.). It's one thing to talk about all these things, it's quite another to get them under your fingers. It takes a while to really understand what the response of the filter system is like, but it's better to get it all figured out now, before you finalize the order. You might discover that there's a lot more going on than controlling high frequencies.
With the Q switch there definitely is a lot more going on than controlling high frequencies. The Q controls a resonance, a bandpass effect.
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AXY and MXY pickups use the same size magnets. A FatBoy pickup uses a larger magnet, similar in size to their Series bass pickups. I wouldn't call it warmer. All Alembic pickups are plenty warm. It "sees" more of the string, so to say, vs. MXY or AXY pickups. I didn't like it in the bass position, though others have had success with it there.
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On physically balancing the instrument on my shoulder:
First, let's remember that the lower half of the body of the Essence is a narrower Small Standard as on the Stanley Clarke basses, which are short scale.
When we reduce a neck to short scale we scale it. Reduce all neck proportions to 30.75/34 = 90% or so. So the part of the neck that sticks out from the body is reduced to 90% and the distance from body edge to the bridge is reduced to 90%. This keeps the fret at the body edge the same.
lidon2001, I guess in the end you're right. Even leaving the bridge where it is there's not significantly less neck weight and the upper horn could stay in the same place, or be just a wee bit shorter.
How does your bass balance?
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Before you move to much more forward, I would suggest playing a number of Alembics. I think that once you get a sense of what they are really about, you'll find uses for the filters and the Q switches (I have to say I love the CVQ, but that's getting into a whole other world.). It's one thing to talk about all these things, it's quite another to get them under your fingers. It takes a while to really understand what the response of the filter system is like, but it's better to get it all figured out now, before you finalize the order. You might discover that there's a lot more going on than controlling high frequencies.
With the Q switch there definitely is a lot more going on than controlling high frequencies. The Q controls a resonance, a bandpass effect.
I think Edwin is saying that finding a few Alembic basses to play might help you make a decision you'll be more comfortable with in the long run.
Are you close enough to an Alembic dealer to play a few to get a feel for Essence vs Europa vs signature electronics, etc?
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Balances with no issues. It stays where I put it. I had the upper horn modified to be more like the upper horn on a BalK body. If I'm going to order a new Alembic, I want the body to be a custom design as well, one-of-a kind. Otherwise, it's just an Alembic. Not that there's anything wrong with that... lol
T
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All kidding aside, I don't think balance will be any issue with an Essence of normal scales. Alembic has designed an Essence body with an extended upper horn for 5 and six strings where it is needed, and others have used the extended horn for 4 strings as well. But I think you can put those concerns to rest using the standard Essence body with a short scale.
In the Featured Custom archive, Pretty In Purple is a short scale Essence for reference.
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Fatboys.
I had a couple of mxy pickups from alembic a few years back, a fatboy, and a neck pickup with a the magnet and coil offset from centre so it was closer to the fretboard. After trying them out i found the fat boy in the bridge position was a thicker sound and less sweet and hifi sounding than the standard pickup. So I put the original back in there and the offset was really full and warm but again the sweetness was less so i put the standard one back. I did put them up for sale but decided to try them again when i have. Few gigs using that bass. They both sound great but probably not suited to what i was doing at the time.
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Wait, did I hear a 3 way Q switch for a Distillate? :)
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+1 on a 3-position Q-switch. If you already imagine you'll be leving te Q-switch in the off position because ro 8 dB hump is a little much, the I highly recommend the 3-position option. I have both, on two different basses, and can tell you from experience I leave it off on my Distillate with it's stock 2-position switch, but I use the 3-position Q-switch frequently on my Persuader, which now has Essence electronics. In fact, I just talked to Mica later week about upgrading my old Distillate's electronics and exchanging the 2-position Q-switch for a 3-way.
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Wait, did I hear a 3 way Q switch for a Distillate? :)
Yessir... sounded familiar? ;)
Keith (kdh), here are links to a couple Featured Custom Essence models, including "Pretty in Purple" the short-scale referenced by Tom, but also "Refinement" as envisioned by encyclopedia alembica, Will Gunn.
Planning a Custom (as you're discovering) can be a bit overwhelming. It's good you already had the basic idea in mind, scale length, body style, electronics... but there are so many little tangents to mull over too. Spend some time looking through the Factory-to -Customer threads and the Featured Custom pages. There are limits to what they can do, but not many.
To get you started:
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_prettyinpurple.html
http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_refinement.html
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I love the ebony framing veneer idea on Will's bass. Would be a great way to subtly set off the different laminates in my all-maple, single-ebony-neck-laminate bass.
I like minimalism aesthetically and to let the materials speak for their own practicality. Ergo the oil finish and the unfinished brass, which I intend to let naturally tarnish.
On electronics I'm going to ask for a 0/3db Q switch which can be easily changed to a 3-way later, and a side-mounted jack.
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Just an update. The bass I've always wanted seems to be happening! It's been great to work with Susan and Mike at Bass Central. Such a privilege.
The craziest idea is using an ebony framing veneer between the top and body/core along with Will's idea of an ebony veneer between the neck and body. A precious wood of which only a black stripe will be seen. Of course the fingerboard will be ebony. The neck will have an ebony laminate.
No bridge block so the sound will come from the maple and ebony. We're not talking hollow body here.
Black hardware to offset the maple other than the brass, which will be left as is, and won't be a great contrast to the maple. White and Black. Can't wait to meet her.
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Bon-Voyage Keith... let the journey begin. I remember well the day I got my quote, and knew it was happening. 8)
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Before you move to much more forward, I would suggest playing a number of Alembics. I think that once you get a sense of what they are really about, you'll find uses for the filters and the Q switches (I have to say I love the CVQ, but that's getting into a whole other world.). It's one thing to talk about all these things, it's quite another to get them under your fingers. It takes a while to really understand what the response of the filter system is like, but it's better to get it all figured out now, before you finalize the order. You might discover that there's a lot more going on than controlling high frequencies.
With the Q switch there definitely is a lot more going on than controlling high frequencies. The Q controls a resonance, a bandpass effect.
I think Edwin is saying that finding a few Alembic basses to play might help you make a decision you'll be more comfortable with in the long run.
Are you close enough to an Alembic dealer to play a few to get a feel for Essence vs Europa vs signature electronics, etc?
I'm on the E coast so have effectively no way to play the instruments. I'm flying blind. You guys are my ears!
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I see you are in Boston, so am I. You are welcome to stop by and check mine out sometime to get an idea of how the filters and Q-switches work and sound (although mine are Series basses not Essence or Europa, but you'll get to know the controls).
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Before you move to much more forward, I would suggest playing a number of Alembics. I think that once you get a sense of what they are really about, you'll find uses for the filters and the Q switches (I have to say I love the CVQ, but that's getting into a whole other world.). It's one thing to talk about all these things, it's quite another to get them under your fingers. It takes a while to really understand what the response of the filter system is like, but it's better to get it all figured out now, before you finalize the order. You might discover that there's a lot more going on than controlling high frequencies.
With the Q switch there definitely is a lot more going on than controlling high frequencies. The Q controls a resonance, a bandpass effect.
I think Edwin is saying that finding a few Alembic basses to play might help you make a decision you'll be more comfortable with in the long run.
Are you close enough to an Alembic dealer to play a few to get a feel for Essence vs Europa vs signature electronics, etc?
I'm on the E coast so have effectively no way to play the instruments. I'm flying blind. You guys are my ears!
Lots of Alembics on the east coast. I'm sure with some legwork you could end up playing a bunch of them.
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Fatboys.
I had a couple of mxy pickups from alembic a few years back, a fatboy, and a neck pickup with a the magnet and coil offset from centre so it was closer to the fretboard. After trying them out i found the fat boy in the bridge position was a thicker sound and less sweet and hifi sounding than the standard pickup. So I put the original back in there and the offset was really full and warm but again the sweetness was less so i put the standard one back. I did put them up for sale but decided to try them again when i have. Few gigs using that bass. They both sound great but probably not suited to what i was doing at the time.
Jazzy, as I think I've read from you in many places, pickup position is huge.
I think of the way a string vibrates. With the fundamental most of the string movement is at the 12th fret, halfway between nut and bridge. The first harmonic has the most movement at 1/4 and 3/4 of the way between nut and bridge (the least movement 1/2 way at the 12th fret where one depresses to get the harmonic). Second harmonic, 1/6, 3/6, 5/6. And so on. The pattern is that the fundamental and 1st harmonic are near the neck, the higher order harmonics are at the bridge. The bridge pickup gets a brighter sound, the neck is the dark fundamental.
A defect of the electric instrument, particularly solid body types, is that the pickup positions need to change depending on what frets the strings are depressed at for uniform spectral/harmonic response. Obviously impractical.
Interestingly, I just looked at my P-bass pickup location and it's well sited to get the first and second harmonics with an open string. I know this from just playing, not the physics.
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My order's in. I'm going with the bridge block after all. This, from Mica, convinced me along with the advice here:
What effect does it have? It increases sustain and adds a certain brightness to the tone. You can also experiment with various materials - we've made aluminum and wooden blocks as well.
I'm curious how an ebony block would sound. Did Bob try this?
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Congratulations again, Keith. It's a good feeling... now comes the hard part. ;)
Regarding the sustain block, I leaned both way on that one too, but ultimately decided in favor of it. I may also experiment with wood replacements some day too, but in no particular hurry to. If fact, I'm planning to take a week off work when mine comes in, just to bond with it. :D
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I chickened out and am going with the standard gloss polyester finish. I had visions of dirty looking maple. My maple P-bass neck is all grimy where the finish has come off. I lightly sanded to clean (the wood was oxidized) and oiled a small damaged area. I don't trust that the oil finish will protect the wood from grime. The polyester is tough and easy to clean and it simply memorializes the new wood.
Also asked for a concealed hardware bridge.
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Talk to Mica but I seem to recall they can get a low sheen finish with the polyester as well if you are looking for more of an oil finish look.
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Check the satin finish as well, I have it on a bass and it's a nice no gloss alternative.
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Talk to Mica but I seem to recall they can get a low sheen finish with the polyester as well if you are looking for more of an oil finish look.
True^. This is happening with my Custom, possibly right this minute. I asked for something between satin and gloss rubout with the poly finish. Left it up to their expertise to stop when they think it's 'there'. ;)
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Talk to Mica but I seem to recall they can get a low sheen finish with the polyester as well if you are looking for more of an oil finish look.
True^. This is happening with my Custom, possibly right this minute. I asked for something between satin and gloss rubout with the poly finish. Left it up to their expertise to stop when they think it's 'there'. ;)
My sense is that it's just a controlled amount of texture, roughness applied to the coating. I look forward to seeing yours.
What's nice about polyester is it protects the wood and the gloss is just a matter of how much it's buffed out. A satin finish can be turned into gloss just by buffing it, and a gloss can be turned into satin by roughing it up.
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Here's what I'm confident will be the final spec:
Standard polyester clear gloss finish
Concealed hardware bridge
Standard bridge block
No lacquer/finish on any brass
Essence 4
Short Scale
Flame Maple Top
Maple Body
Essence Body
Tummy Contour
1.625 Nut On Fretted Ebony Fingerboard
Center Ebony Neck Laminate
Silver Dot Side Position Markers
Orion Inline Peghead
Ebony Framing Veneer Between Top And Body
Ebony Framing Veneers Between Body And neck as on "Refinement"
Silver Logo No Script
Brass Truss Rod Cover
Brass Backplate For Model Electronics
Polished Alembic Brass Hardware
Polished Bar Tailpiece Rounded Ends as on "Refinement"
Black Alembic Gotoh Tuners
Black Strap Locks
Essence Electronics
2 Position Q Switch 3 DB Boost
Side Mounted Jack
Plain Pick-ups NO ALEMBIC LETTERING
Case For K4
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That'll be a nice build. Salute. 8)
The only thing I believe you should re-think is the Q-switch... go for a 0-3-6 dB option. (not sure if there is a 0-3 dB two-position, though I'm pretty sure they could do it)
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What I asked for is a 0-3 db option. On the small chance I want 6db switchable from the instrument I think it's an easy change post-build. I like to start simple. The choices come down to the choice of a single or double throw switch and resistor selection.
I have plenty of parametric EQ downstream in my pre-amp/modeling processor. I use a Zoom B3n and a 1000W Bose F1 model 812 which gives a flat response down to 50hz.
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My build has started. We might be seeing a Factory to Customer thread...