Alembic Guitars Club

Alembic products => Owning an Alembic => Fun Stories => Topic started by: 5a quilt top on December 05, 2016, 11:34:43 AM

Title: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: 5a quilt top on December 05, 2016, 11:34:43 AM: I've had my Series II 5-string for about 18 months and finally found a project where her full capabilities could be put to good use. For the first few rehearsals, I've been in mono mode using only an AER Amp One (1x10 200 watt combo) for amplification, which has been working nicely. The sound is full and round with a well-defined low end on the E and B strings and the resulting tone sits perfectly in the mix.

Since this was working well, curiosity got the better of me and I decided to try stereo with the full band. Previously, I'd experimented with stereo in my home rehearsal space and was pleased with the result at low volumes using whatever amps I had available so I bit the bullet and got a second AER bass amp - an Amp Three (2x8 200 watt combo).

It arrived last week, so I set the full rig up for yesterday's rehearsal - sending the treble output to the Amp Three (with bass boost engaged) and the bass output to the Amp One (with no bass boost). I set both amps with minimal gain (9 o'clock) and the masters up about 1/2 way. The individual volume controls on the bass were up about 1/3 - 1/2 (adjusted depending upon whether more bass or treble was required) and the master around 1/2 (+/-) depending upon the amount of overall volume required for the song.

Wow - what a sound. Since neither amp was being pushed, the tone was clear, well-defined and massive with no boominess or unwanted distortion - although I could obtain plenty of growl when needed just by digging in a little more with my fingers. Also, since it was much easier to hear the effect of the individual tone and volume adjustments on the bass, I discovered that small adjustments make can make a big difference on whether the bass would be more or less prominent in the mix. in short, I've never had this much precise control over my tone before and it was a revelation. Almost as big a revelation as switching to Alembics from other basses...

About 1/2 way through the rehearsal, the soundman for the project stopped by and was astounded to the point of being mesmerized by the bass tone. He's also a drummer and said he'd never heard a bass sound that good at low/moderate volume and had to know the secret. So when we finished rehearsing, I explained the rig and gave him a quick tour of the bass. He was impressed by the build quality and the tonal versatility of the controls.

Due to the success of this little experiment, I'm going to use the stereo rig live with this project on Wednesday night.
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: lbpesq on December 05, 2016, 02:36:03 PM: David, how are you placing the two amps, relative to each other?

Bill, tgo
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: hieronymous on December 05, 2016, 07:05:29 PM: > A - W - E - S - O - M - E <

Looking forward to the gig report! I started running mine in stereo (neck -> GK MB 112 II, bridge -> PJB briefcase) but it's too much stuff to lug around so I've just been going mono with the GK. Might have to reconsider...
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: 5a quilt top on December 06, 2016, 08:07:23 AM: Thus far - due to rehearsal space restrictions - the amps are quite close to each other. I hope to have a little more room at the gig tomorrow night.

However, the stereo effect is still apparent. Hard to describe, but it's just a bigger, more complex and more versatile sound. What appear to be minor tonal adjustments in mono mode are more apparent in stereo.

This is probably due in large part to clarity - the greater the headroom, the more apparent the tone adjustments. Since a separate amp is dedicated to each pickup, the bass pickup (normally the dominant one for me) does not have the opportunity to overwhelm the treble pickup (unless I want it to) - I can control the amount of its influence via both volume and presence (tone). And, the icing on the cake is the global master volume, which allows the bass to come up in the mix (or recede) quickly as needed - without changing pickup blend or tone.

As for too much gear - not an issue with these amps. The Amp One is a small cube app. 12" x 12" x 12" and the Amp Three is only slightly larger. They each weigh about 40 lbs and come with a padded carry bag with a pouch for cables, etc. If I had a padded gig bag for the bass (I know - blasphemy), I could sling it over my shoulders and pick up an amp in each hand and be off.

IMO, these AER amps are a really good match with Alembic basses in general, and particularly with the Series basses, for any application other than a really large room or outdoor venue.

But, they do have an XLR DI output and a 1/4" line out on the back and I'd be willing to try that through a PA for larger stages.

Unfortunately, they're not cheap, but neither are our basses, and you get what you pay for.
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: 5a quilt top on December 08, 2016, 10:49:21 AM: Gig report:

Private party at an upscale country club. Room was a converted dining room (tables and chairs moved to create space for band). Unfortunately, I did not have much room to spread the amps, so they remained in the same proximity to each other as during rehearsals. Plus, they were backed directly up to a wall, which projected the sound out into the room.

Volume was identical to rehearsal volume, except I trimmed a bit off the gain level. Tone controls were adjusted to to emphasize a little more high end and upper mids because the room seemed a bit dead and had a lot of carpeted areas and drapes on the windows - unlike the rehearsal room, which is pretty live because it has a tile floor and nothing on the windows.

Tone and volume on bass were pretty much at rehearsal levels, but I found myself favoring the treble PU a bit more due to the need to cut through at specific times.

Bass was not in the PA because sound check revealed that I could easily carry the room with my rig and therefore needed no extra support from the PA.

During the performance, I was able to stand about 10' in front of the amps and clearly heard the effect of each tone and volume adjustment made from the bass. Even when the amps are close to each other, the stereo effect still emphasizes even the slightest adjustment and I found myself playing more dynamically than when using my mono rigs. This was important because we were playing a variety of material that ranged from country to standards to rock.

After we finished, the sound man was very complimentary and referred to the bass tone as "perfect".

All in all, a very successful maiden voyage for this portable and very flexible rig.

One downside: this much clarity and emphasis on nuance meant that all technical and musical errors were clearly audible to me, the band and anyone listening...as such, I wish I could report that my personal performance was as flawless as the performance of my gear.

One interesting bit of trivia: Kevin McHale (former basketball player) was in the audience and complimented me after. Apparently, he's quite a music fan.
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: David Houck on December 08, 2016, 02:24:17 PM: Congrats on getting compliments from Kevin McHale.
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: JimmyJ on December 08, 2016, 06:53:44 PM: Yes David, isn't stereo a cool thing?

My theory (a-hem) is that because the two pickups are essentially two sources of signal from different points of the vibrating string, there are naturally some parts of the sound which cancel each other out. When the summing is done electronically it's just part of the sound and we're not even aware of it. But when you can do it acoustically it's a different thing and the sound that usually gets cancelled can kind of ... breath a bit more. (Yikes, audiophile nut-job lingo.)

I've used the stereo option a bit over the years and feel like the "acoustic summing" benefit can be lost if you split the stereo by too much. I still think it's best to have essentially a single-point source for the bass sound. Too wide a split and you'll find yourself unable to tell how loud each amp should be because you'll be hearing the two sources separately and not as one thing...

I used this "open" stereo sound a few times while recording too, but subtly. On Flim & The BB's and Holdsworth records I recorded both channels and then panned the bridge pickup slightly right, something like 1:30 on the clock dial, and the bass pickup slightly left, like 11 o'clock. This opened up the sound and made the bass even bigger (if that's possible) while still appearing to be in the center of the mix.

Furthermore, back in the day when I had a stereo rig I had one other trick... I had a lovely analog chorus called a "stereo tapped delay" which was fed only from the bridge pickup. The device's output was stereo and through a little resistor summing rig the device was wired so that when I turned it on it would only add the chorussing (pitch shifting) audio back into the direct sound of the bass. But into both the treble and bass amp channels. In other words, the dry, direct bass sound would never be interrupted or passed through the box, and when turned on, the stereo chorussing element of the treble pickup would be added to both channels of the amp.

Did that make any sense? All I can say is it was a really nice sound which I used to make the bass step out a bit for soloing.

So yeah, now start thinking about what kind of trouble you can get into with two different effects chains! Oh my!

Jimmy J
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: gtrguy on December 09, 2016, 10:12:38 AM: Years ago I bought a Gibson ES355 stereo guitar. My thinking at the time was to get the best possible sound out of two amps with it and that it would sound great. I was wrong. I had to dial in a sound from each amp that was missing something and then that frequency would come out with the other amp (and vs versa) and that would give me the best overall sound.

Mixing recorded music is the same thing. Logic would tell you that you want all the tracks to sound as great as possible. When mixing down, that is not the case. Some tracks have to sound 'worse' in order to make certain things pop (vocals especially) more.

I don't play live in stereo. I bet that's a challenge! Somewhere around here I have a bass amp that is a built in Bi-amp, with two completely separate amps to it (voiced slightly different too). I keep planning on pulling it out and using it on my series bass.
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: StephenR on December 09, 2016, 11:28:01 AM: I have one guitar that is stereo. It has a piezo pickup in the bridge on a separate circuit so that it can be used alone or added to the magnetic pickups. That kind of circuit makes sense to me for a guitar. Otherwise unless you are using stereo effects and want to spread out your cabinets I don't see much point. The trouble with a stereo guitar rig is that it can be harder to get that sound into the room and at times also hard to hear properly onstage depending on where the cabinets are located in relation to the other instruments.

With my Series bass I have only used the stereo option to run the treble pickup through an effects rack. I find isolating the effects feed to one pickup to help maintain the sound of the fundamental so it still sounds like a bass. I also think a single-point sound source makes more sense for bass, there is enough low end bouncing around the room and bleeding onto the stage from the PA as it is. Plus if you stack your cabinets they project better, one can be closer to your ears and they couple giving you a slight boost in the lows. Lots of fun options to play around with.

I have been tempted to experiment with running my Series bass in stereo for gigs, one pickup to each cabinet (stacked) but would need a stereo DI to make it work with my existing equipment or else have to invest in a second Avalon U5 which isn't a cheap option.
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: edwardofhuncote on December 11, 2016, 04:26:44 AM: Been enjoying this thread. :)

I had what may be a goofy idea... bearing in mind I know very little about designing cabinets... basically just enough to know they are *designed* for a particular response and not just a random-sized box.

Has anyone ever built a stereo cabinet? I'm thinking of a single unit cabinet with two or four speakers but with separate inputs. Would each side need to be isolated within the enclosure? Would there be phasing issues? Could be just the thing for a Series instrument... or just another mousetrap.
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: rv_bass on December 11, 2016, 05:34:26 AM: Interesting thought, Greg. I have a cab with 15" and 12" speakers in it that I use for mono. I also have separate 112 and 115 cabs that I stack and use for stereo as suggested by Stephen. Would be nice to do the stacked stereo in a single cab (less to carry).
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: rustyg61 on December 11, 2016, 01:42:44 PM: Quote from: rv_bass on December 11, 2016, 05:34:26 AM
Interesting thought, Greg. I have a cab with 15" and 12" speakers in it that I use for mono. I also have separate 112 and 115 cabs that I stack and use for stereo as suggested by Stephen. Would be nice to do the stacked stereo in a single cab (less to carry).

The AccuGroove El Whappo speakers are completely isolated from each other so you could rewire the jacks for stereo use. Not sure how that would affect the crossover, you might have to bypass it, but you could install a DPDT toggle switch to swap the jacks from mono to stereo. I'm sure Ron or Mark Wright could tell you how to wire it.
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: 5a quilt top on December 12, 2016, 11:13:06 AM: Thanks for all of the responses - I'm enjoying learning about how all of you have approached this technique for your own purposes and I'm particularly intrigued by Jimmy's suggestion of using a little modulation on the treble pickup to allow the bass to be a little more prominent when required.

In my case, the use of the stereo function right now is way more "Barney Rubble" = no FX or extra processing (other than a VERY slight amount of compression via the on-board amp compressors on the two AER amps). Each blue box output simply feeds its own amp.

This allows me the ability to have a separate amp dedicated and tweaked specifically for each pickup and then use the individual pickup filter and volume controls on the bass to bring the bass tone up or back in the mix as needed or soften or stiffen the tonal response depending on the aggressiveness of my attack. Plus, because neither amp is being pushed very hard, the overall tone is very clear.

For some reason, I have traditionally had difficulty obtaining a bass tone with a rich low end along with a punchy high end that doesn't sound "clacky / poppy". By using the Series II electronics with two different amps, I've gotten closer to the perfect way to accomplish this for me at low/moderate volume as with anything I've used previously.

And gtrguy pretty much nailed it with the concept that the two separate amp tones are nothing to get excited about by themselves, but when blended, the result is greater than the sum of the parts.
Title: Re: < S - T - E - R - E - O >
Post by: David Houck on December 15, 2016, 04:20:56 PM: Greg; the answer to your question is yes. For instance, the Mesa Powerhouse 1000, which has 1 15", 4 10's, and a tweeter. It is wired with "Split Inputs: Hi-Low Biamp or Left-Right Stereo".