Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: jalevinemd on October 23, 2004, 05:59:23 PM
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Hollis, if you're listening, this one's for you. I know there are a few Skylark owners on the Club site, but you've probably had yours the longest. Here's my problem. I'm trying to make my Alembic Little Bear fit the bill for whatever I happen to be playing. I love the sounds, especially the clean. Only thing is, I usually play with some distortion. When I run my Big Bear (the Resurrection Bolt) through the clean channel of my Marshall JCM2000, add my Wylde Overdrive Pedal and a little reverb, I get as close to a Jimmy Page sound as I've ever gotten (a la Whole Lotta Love, Heartbreaker, Living Loving Maid, Black Dog). I just can't seem to find the right settings with Little Bear to capture the same tone. I've gotten close, but not close enough. Granted the Big Bear has at least two extra pounds on its diminutive counterpart, and that might very well be the reason, but there's got to be a way. The Alembic just doesn't sound quite as full when playing that heavier, blues-based rock. I'm not circuit savy, in the least, and am also quite impatient when it comes to fine tweaking things. Thought you, or anyone else out there, might have some suggestions for getting Little to sound more like Big.
Regards,
Jonathan
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Forgot two important details. The Big Bear has 3 Dimarzio Super II's and I'm playing the Zep stuff with the middle pickup alone.
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Hi, maybe its beacuse the middle Pu your using, try to use the bridge or neck Pu, like Jimmy Page Les Pauls.
Good luck.
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Jon,
The frequency response of the Dimarzio compared to that of the Alembic HG is night and day..... I can only imagine how much flatter the response is on the HG across the board. I installed a Dimarzio Super Distortion in a friend's guitar once, and that pup has very beefy & well pronounced lows, the lower mids seemed to be scouped out, with the upper mids blistering, high frequencies sustained well.... These were Garcia's pup of choice, and the more you dig into them the more they break up~ I dont imagine an Alembic circuit doing that anytime soon!!!!!
My only suggestion would be to get a parametric or graphic EQ and start cutting / boosting certain frequencies of your Alembic until it sounds the same as big bear when A/B'ed going into your Marshall...
btw, is big bear a passive or active circuit?!?!?
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That's a tough one. Jimmy's sound...let's take inventory:
Early Sound (LZ1) - Tele through a Supro amp
Later Sound (LZII) - '59 LP Flame Top through Marshall Plexi's.
Jimmy did intersperse the Tele throughout his career and then went back to it for In through the Out Door with the addition of a Parsons-White String Bender (on the B-string) for those pedal steel effects. A fair dinkum of screaming leads he did on record were in fact the Tele, not the LP (Danelectro for slide as well).
It might be tough to get a fat LP sound out of the Alembic. The LZ sound you're looking for is heavily dependent on a few things:
1) THE Marshall Plexi sound (don't forget the 4x12 cabs with 25W Celestion greenbacks in both closed & open back configurations)
2) 24.75 scale length
3) Aged HEAVY solid mahogany body/carved maple top/lacquer finish/set mahogany neck (w/brazillian rosewood FB) construction
4) Passive PAF humbuckers (de-gaussed due to time, I imagine)
BTW, Jimmy also had his LP's modded with a series/parallel circuit activated by a push/pull vol. pot. for many years, but I don't know if he had the mods. as early as LZII. I'm assuming that was done to get a coil-split (i.e., single-coil type sound) effect a la DiMarzio Dual Sound p/u's. HE also played with changing p/u's and liked to strip the covers off.
I don't know how close your JCM2000 is to a plexi sound, but judging by your comment that you use a fuzz box with the CLEAN channel instead of the amp's DIRTY channel(s) says to me that it isn't close.
As far as the Skylark electronics goes, I am in the dark. My cheapskate propensites have so far denied me one to hack around on until I make up my mind what to order from Alembic. There are also a lot of variables WRT the specifications of your Alembic that I am also not aware of. There may very well be a way to EQ (for lack of a better term) using the Skylark's electronics package, but you simply can't add what is not there. That is to say, that body mass/wood type and set-neck contribute a huge amount to the sound. Short scale length does it's part to sweeten the highs and muddy the lows. The PAF's take care of the rest (Don't forget the passive simple RC-network tone control's w/Bumblebee caps, LOL!).
I know that Hollis has had (or still has) LP's and I know he said the Skylark is superior in every way. That may not mean, however, that he can get it to sound that way (i.e, like the Paul). I guess we'll have to wait for him to chime in.
The Bolt may be closer in specs. to a LP so you are able to get close to the sound you're looking for.
At any rate, please excuse my ramblings. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. I hope you suceed in your quest because I'd like my next Alembic to take the place of the LP and Strat/Strat-style guitars I rely on for my sound(s).
Cheers,
Kevin
(Message edited by kmh364 on October 24, 2004)
(Message edited by kmh364 on October 24, 2004)
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Mike: Good point about the DiMArzio's versus the Alembic activators. Alembic does tend to give you a neutral (i.e., flat) tone to start with and then add the active networks that give both freq. cut and boost to modify that sound.
Just bear in mind that you could drop a DiMarzio SD or Super II into any guitar...let's say a Strat for argument's sake...but it still wouldn't make it sound like an LP. The p/u's will only get you so far, the actual construction of the instrument will influence the sound more, IMHO.
I have Humbuckers in the bridge position of my Charvel/Jacksons. The Jackson p/u's (actually I think they are re-branded EMG's) are supposed to be vintage ceramic a la PAF's but they add an active MID boost circuit that fattens them up for that late 80's/early 90's hair band sound (LOL!). If you roll the mid boost off with the bridge humbucker you sort of get that LP sound, BUT the effect of the Strat-style construction (i.e., 25.5 scale length, bolt-on maple neck, lighter non-mahogany body construction, floating Jackson Floyd vibrato, etc.) still shines through. Close, but no cigar. You do get much better sounding chords though due to the scale length, but the articulated bass strings and the shrill highs belie the Strat underpinnings, LOL!
I guess the old Shop Smith analogy is appropos here: something that is designed to do many things doesn't do any of them well, LOL! J/K Seriously, there isn't a more versatile instrument out there than Alembic. Even Alembics, though, have their limits.
Jonathan: EQ the hell out of that thing and see if you can make 'er scream! Superfilter anyone? LOL! Seriously, Good Luck and keep us posted.
(Message edited by kmh364 on October 24, 2004)
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From my experiences with DiMarzios, they tend to add their own color to your woods and construction.... More so than other brands of pups and almost to the point where your tone is more a result of your pups then your guitar itself..... Point and case~ I grabbed a SD out of a pawnshop plywood Memphis and put it in my friend's Gibson US-1and the tone was very much the same.
Im in no way dissing DiMarzio's~ its just that they are an entirely different beast then Alembic, or their competitors such as Semour Duncan. Just listen to Garcia's solos on 'Hell in a Bucket' ~ to me thats the epitome of the Super Distortion pup and the term blistering!!!!!
I'd suspect that in order to achieve that Page sound from an Alembic, your signal path is going to have to undergo some sort of devolution once it leaves the Alembic. Using some sort of outboard EQ is my best bet, but keep in mind those other threads about Line level VS. Instrument level effects!!!!!!
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Yeah, I had DiMarzio's on my Ibanez Les Paul Custom (the Black Beauty Copy they got sued for) back in the day (25yrs ago). I had a Dual Sound (basically a super Distortion with a coil tap) and a Super Distortion (neck and bridge respectively). I wanted that Awesome Brothers tone, so that's what Lou Rose Music in Edison, NJ (Tony Viel is still there!) sold me. I just couldn't afford the Marshall plex' half-stack to go along with it, LOL! (My MXR Distortion PLUS and crappo amp had to do, LOL!). Those pick-ups did scream, but they still won't turn a Strat into a Paul, LOL!
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Hi Jonathan,
Okay, lets see.. So are you saying that you're not getting a ballsy enough sound? Have you tried rolling back the neck pup's filter while keeping the bridge's full on? Also, I have my neck pup's height down about 3/4 of the total distance from the strings. My bridge pup is as high as I feel comfortable playing it. My picking technique uses very little of the pick so the strings are pretty close to the bridge pup. I have the volume trim pots: 1/2 (approx) on the neck, 5/8ths (again, approx) on the bridge. The selector switch trim pots are :3/4 up on neck, full up on bridge.
Keep in mind, the controls are SUPER SENSITIVE, so, as I'm sure you already are finding out, a little goes a long way. Also, I'm running through Mesa stuff, so yours will obviously be a little different.
One thing that I've discovered is that rolling back the neck pup gives me way more tone variation than I thought possible. I think you'll be able to find the sound you're looking for with a little tinkering. As always, easy does it. Tiny steps.....
I'm kinda shooting in the dark here, I don't know how you're set up, but I hope this helps a little.
Enjoy
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Hollis,
I'm working late tonight, but I'll let you know what happens in the next day or so. Thanks, everyone, for the input. Seems like I'm going to need to learn a little about patience afterall.
Jonathan
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Jonathan,
Something else I forgot to say; I've been able to dial in every sound (and sooo many more) that my Les Paul produces. The key was, at least it seemed for me bass ackwards from what I was used to. Meaning, at first, I tried to mellow the beast by keeping the neck pup filter full up (clockwise), and the bridge filtered full down (counter clockwise). While this made for some very sweet tones, it didn't bring out the depth I was looking for.
By reversing this process, I feel as though I'm more able to dial in some of those more elusive sounds.
(Message edited by hollis on October 25, 2004)
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Hollis,
Experimented briefly and, I feel I'm making progress. I think I approached Little Bear like my Les Paul as well. At first I had the neck p'up off and the bridge p'up forward (bright) witht the tone and volume all the way up. That gave a very tinny sound when the distortion was on and an almost piercing tone through the clean channel. I have since thrown the neck p'up switch forward (bright) with the tone at about 30%/volume 100% and have the bridge p'up switch in neutral position with the tone at about 50%/volume 100%. This sounds SO much more deep and full. I'll try some more tweaking, but this is definitely a sound I can live with - still not quite as deep as Big Bear, but close and very nice, indeed. Adjusting p'up height is getting way beyond me. Plus I have no idea where the trim pots are or, even, really what they are. Sounds to me like something a hooker serves coffee in!
Like I've said, I'm quite electronically challenged. I probably have no right playing an Alembic. My attraction to them was governed by the same superficial rules of dating I used all those years ago. It was based on looks and reputation alone. Forget about what was on the inside. Now, with my Alembic, I've got a woman with brains as well...and she's tough as hell to figure out! I'm working on it, though. It's just going to be a long ride, but worth it in the end.
Thanks for the advice. I'll keep you posted.
Regards,
Jonathan
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Jonathan:
Great analogy about women! As for the trim pots, think of them as little tiny volume controls that you adjust with a screwdriver (VERY small adjustments at a time). Don't be afraid to experiment - Alembics are built quite solidly - as long as you don't force anything, you won't break it. Keep playing. The more it is in your hands, the more you will grok it. After more than 3 decades of Fender, Gibson, PRS, and a few others, I obtained my first Alembic, an Electrum, at the end of July. I'm now playing it almost exclusively, and I'm still figuring it out. That's half the fun. So far each sound I initially couldn't get was because of me, not the guitar. Enjoy.
Bill, tgo
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Jonathan,
First off, thanks for the trim pot laugh out loud. It sounds like you?re on your way. Enjoy the ride; it?s a good one!
Bill tgo is dead on about the adjustments. I highly recommend taking the time to get to know the itty-bitty bear. It?s well worth the investment. I guess that I look at it this way: These folks took all this time and effort to put the finest instrument possible into your hands, the rest is up to you.
Suffice to say, the electronics within Little Bear are every bit as well thought out and executed as the craftsmanship that went into the woodworking.
There?s a real easy to follow explanation of pickup adjustments in the bass owners manual on this website.
As far as being electronically challenged, when I first questioned the trim pots I think I asked about ?the square blue plastic thingies with a white round slotted thing in the center.? Mica was gracious enough to explain that those were ?trim pots??..
I suppose that what I?m saying is; don?t feel like the Lone Ranger?.
Have fun,
Hollis
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One more thing Jonathan,
I forgot to add that the trim pots (square blue plastic thingies with white round slotted plastic in the center) are inside the control cavity on the back of Little Bear. Go ahead and open it up, it's pretty amazing in there.
(Message edited by hollis on October 26, 2004)
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Jonathan: Any more progress a la the sound you're looking for? Inquiring minds wanna know, LOL!
Cheers,
Kevin
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Kevin,
The sound I've been looking for is just about there. I'm reluctant to start adjusting trim pots etc...to get the last bit. I just don't feel comfortable doing such things - no more so than I would monkeying around under the hood of my car. I'm actually quite pleased with the progress thus far. Just a matter of fine tuning. This weekend, I'm going to pick up an equalizer to see if I can really nail it. If not, Big Bear and Little Bear will see more or less equal playing time. Certainly worse fates exist! Any thoughts on an equalizer? Keep in mind that I don't have any rack mounted effects. Pedals only.
Jonathan
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Jonathan, you need not be reluctant to make adjustments to the trim pots inside the control cavity. It is very a simple turn of a screwdriver, and the effect can be dramatic. It may be just the boost of fine-tuning you are after. These features are made available by Ron and his crew to give you more control over your tone. I say take advantage. =)
Good luck on your quest for the elusive perfect tone.
Tom
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Another quick post. As an educator, I know that sometimes a picture will serve to get us over the bump. Here is a shot of the controls in my Skylark.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/13737.jpg)
Tom
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Great explanatory picture, Tom. I'm curious about one thing, though: what's the purpose of trim pots for the two selector swithes?
Jonathan: Go for it.
Bill, tgo
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I don't know, but I would guess it controls something relative to how bright the bright setting is. It would have to either be the boost at the set treble frequency, or the treble frequency at which the set boost is applied.
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I have another question Brother Tom: I can see your bothe hands in the picture!! Howe do you hold the camera???
Don't tell me you are that one true Alembic-alien chosen one that has three hands. As I mentioned soem 1100 postst ago: I firmly believe you better grow a third Arm to play your Alembic better!!!
Paul the bad one
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Ahh - three hands - that WOULD be useful. Two brains would be nice too - then I could play the piano better - a brain for each hand. As it is, I will have to continue to labor with one brain and only two hands. Brother Paul, it was my lovely and talented wife who took the picture.
Bill, I will have to leave it to the electronics wizards around here to explain exactly what is happening with the selector-switch gain control, but in practical terms Bob's explanation is accurate. I am still learning about the capabilities of this wonderful guitar.
Tom
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I noticed on the description of the Skylark electronics that they have a 3-way On/Off/Bright switch. Presumably the trimpot controls the bright setting, which makes me think whether this is or is not the equivalent of a CVQ - but Mica has been very insistent that they can only do CVQ on the Series electronics ... so it must be something else.
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I have a question regarding the switches and it might seem a stupid one but bear with me. Does the off postion mean that the pickup is actually turned off? And if thats the case why does it have an off switch?
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Time for a wild guess - you could have a 3-way toggle switch for p/u selection, but then you would still need two 2-way toggle switches to have the individual bright option per p/u. So why not just have 2 3-way toggles - less crowded control area.
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Yes, Smiley. Most guitars with two pickups have a three position switch for selecting bridge/both/neck. On those setups, when you select the bridge pickup, you've turned off the neck pickup. This system is no different except in how you make that happen. Additionally, you get the benefit of a standby position (both pickups off) which can be convenient in stage situations.
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Okay I get it now, sorry but its 1:30 am where I am and things always seem funny when I'm up all night.
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Adriaan, my guess w/ the trim pots on the pup selectors vary the capacitance to ground thus rolling off frequencies to different degrees of brightness.
This is different from a CVQ~ it's sole function is to narrow or widen the bandwidth of the notch of your eq curve.
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Mike,
I keep getting my definitions wrong, but wasn't Q the bandwidth of the notch at a number of dBs below the peak?
As you describe it, the trim pots on the brightness switch adjust the slope of the roll-off. But wouldn't that also have some effect on the resonance peak? (But obviously not the same as CVQ.)
It is an interesting concept - I wonder if it's something that would be nice to have as an extra control next to the filter frequency - but I'm sure it's more of a set-and-forget thing.
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This is how I understand it. (Please keep in mind that for me, two brains would only increase the amount of conversations of the people inside my head):
The trim pot on the 3-way is a gain boost. It allows adjustments of how much gain you want to add to the pickup.
It?s an off/on/boost. The off position is for just that, to turn the pup off. I guess you could achieve the same effect by turning the gain pot down, but it does come in handy when wanting to introduce a predetermined, specific volume to into the mix quickly.
Mica has made it clear to me in a previous post (I think it was the one about the square blue plastic thingie?.) that this is not a Q switch.
Great picture Tom.
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Hollis,
The description for the Skylark switches is Off/On/Bright, and I don't think they would put 'bright' if they meant 'boost' (http://www.alembic.com/prod/skylark.html (http://www.alembic.com/prod/skylark.html)).
Perhaps it acts like the treble boost switch on the Europa package?
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Hollis; here is the previous thread:
http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/8187.html (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=3082)
And the quote from Mica:
The switches on your guitar are pickup selectors. When you're in playing position from top to bottom it's:
off
on
bright
The trimpot on the switch is the amount of brightness. Turn it clockwise to get a bigger difference between the middle and down positions.
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Right you are, thanks for correcting my terminology..... See what I mean about two brains?
Thanks again.