Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: jazzyvee on August 01, 2016, 03:36:04 AM
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Sometimes I struggle to hear myself clearly on stage mainly when playing reggae and there aren't much of the upper frequencies on stage due to some heavy subs that are coming up from under the stage. Sometimes this makes pitching a challenge when I'm moving away from a static bass line. I do were ear plugs all the time and these are custom in-ear moulded ones with a flat frequency response so are decent.[size=10pt !important]Saturday night I had a gig which was a backline only gig so that gave me an opportunity to try a different speaker setup. I decided to bring two cabs, a 4x10 and 2x10 mesa powerhouse cabs instead of just one cab. At soundcheck I tried out two setups. Regular with the 2x10 on t's feet on top of the 4x10. That sounded great further away from the cab but less great when I stood in my playing position near the cab. Using a long lead I walked out into the room to hear the sound. Then I set up my two mesa boogie cabs with the 4x10 at the bottom on it's wheels as normal but put the 2x10 on top of the 4x10 but on it's side on it's side so the speakers were vertical and the walkabout head on the top of the stack. Immediately I was able to hear the bass much better from the playing position and could turn the volume down and still hear properly. Interestingly the bass seemed to project better in the room and sounded much fuller further away from the stage area than the "standard layout". So that was the setup I used for the gig and both myself and band loved the sound but I'm not sure how me standing in front of the cab sometimes would affect the projection into the room. I also put the cabs across a corner of the room where I was standing so this probably accounted for some enhanced bass also, but then it was a reggae gig so the extra bottom end wasn't gonna offend anyone problem. I also turned the tweeters off on both cabs.
I have read many recommendations about the benefits go putting 2x10 speakers vertically to get a better sound but is this a good way to use a 4x10 and 2x10 or even a 1x15 and 2x10 which is another option I have tried cab wise.
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Hey jazzyvee, my 2cents worth.. First, bottom cab off the floor (on wheels) will clean up bottom end (mud) as decouples the cab from the floor. Corner placement will add bass (corner loading). Top cab vertical, higher mids and top end will be a more narrow beam so as you found will open up more away from the stage, sideways (so MESA nameplates line up, I assume the way MESA designed/intended them) (although upside down should be similar since you have tweeter off LoL) will give wider dispersion of mids and tops, so clearer on stage and a wider dispersion out front. The top cab will also couple much more with the 4x10 and appear/sound like a 6x10 cab.
All the mids and tops from the bottom cab are going into your legs, and depending on stage height, and how they line up with peoples ears, they probably open up on the crowd but get sucked up by the front rows. (I'm assuming you are running full range into both cabs ?). If you are bi-amping with bottom end crossed over (at say ~180hz) to the bottom box and tops to the 2 x10 this is a little different. Typically this bi-amp approach works well with 15" on the bottom and either 2 x 10 or 4 x 10 on top. 4 x 10 on its own I'd put on a milk crate to get the tops up toward your ear level a bit.
But as you discovered, the best placement is what sounded the best in that place at that time. BTW it looks better IMO (though no pic :-( ) with the 2x10 on its side and the MESA logos in line.
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Its; the first time I've gigged with that combination of my cabs. I have 3 mesa cabs, 1x15, 2x10 and 4x10 and Usually its any one of them singly and I have previously doubled up with the (1x15 + 2x10( or the (1x15 + 4x10)
The stage area was at ground floor level so we were not elevated above the crowd at all so the front rows probably soaked up a lot of the sound. I tried to stand to the side of the cab to avoid blocking the sound and It sounded better when I was off to the side too. I had ear plugs in so didn't get the full whack of the cabs but it was the best sound I've had for a backline only reggae gig. Usually i sound check without my ear plugs to make sure my amp isn't hitting the speakers too hard then put my plugs in when we play then the sound is about right for me.
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Perhaps try the 210 horizontal on top of the 115 or 410, and place something under the front of the 210 to angle it up, directing the sound towards your ears. I have an angled 112 cab (Accugroove Wedgie) on top of a 115 cab. I can hear the 112 really well and the angle produces nice separation from the 115.
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This might not work for your style of music, but if there is so much low end going on, adding more may not help. Perhaps dialing in more upper frequency with the speaker’s horn will help you hear it better. It is also possible a person might have hearing loss in a certain register but not others. Usually as a gig goes on, peoples ability to hear the band distinctly improves.
Just my 2 cents worth of ideas.
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I place my speakers in my ears. In ear monitors make such a huge difference. I think it may be even more profound for bass players than anyone else, except perhaps singers. Way too many bass cabinets (i.e., all of them) color the sound. IEMs give you a much truer representation and you don't have to fight other amps, the PA or anything AND your ears don't have to ring at the end of the night. I got so sick of struggling with it.
I just bring a single 15" JBL K140 and call it good for on stage speakers. Or a double 15 for bigger stages. They sound great mic'ed up.
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With in-ear monitors where do you get your sound fed to them from? Your own bass rig ... somehow or FOH or monitor guy?
If you aren't using a bass rig were then do you get your sound from?
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With in-ear monitors where do you get your sound fed to them from? Your own bass rig ... somehow or FOH or monitor guy?
If you aren't using a bass rig were then do you get your sound from?
I still use a bass rig.
I usually bring a split and a computer with several interfaces, so I make the mixes for the whole band. It's a bit of extra work, but it's worth it to me. A good monitor engineer can do a decent job. If I'm not doing the mix myself, I use a setup where I have two inputs, one of the bass and one of the rest of the mix, so I can mix myself against the band. You can even do this using something like a small Mackie mixer as the headphone amp.