Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: edwardofhuncote on May 18, 2016, 01:30:28 PM
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Got an odd question for the Club here...
Anyone here have an Alembic finished in Satin poly? How about an Oil finish? Anybody done that?
Recently I've fallen head-over-heels for the satin-y look/feel of the finish on this older Distillate, and been giving some thought to it for the Custom fretless currently in progress. Of course we all know whatever they do will look awesome... just wondering if anyone would share any pro/con experience with either.
If it helps visualize, it'll be an Anniversary Omega body, (a bit smaller than Standard Omega) with a mahogany core, birds-eye maple top and back, maple neck with three purpleheart laminates. The headstock is "straight-pull" Elan 3+2, with cocobolo faces front and back, and finally, a sidelined ebony fingerboard.
Thanks, in advance. ;)
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My opinion, which doesn't count for much :) , is that Satin Poly is going to look better on a maple top. I tend to like oil finishes better on darker woods. Agree that whatever finish is applied to your bass it is going to look amazing.
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I've heard that satin finishes on darker woods will start to look a little dirty with use. That suggests you should be fine with maple. I can tell you the satin finish to the back of the neck does feel fabulous, though. :)
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One thing to keep in mind is the satin poly will buff up to shiny over time where your body rubs against it. This might or might not be a concern for you. I have a brown bass which has a polymerized oil finish. It is not as hard as poly and you can see some wear near the pickups where my thumbnail has hit over the years. On the otherhand if I ever decide to, it is easy to touch up with a bit of Watco Danish oil. Personally I would go with oil again if I wanted a satin finish and stick with poly for the gloss finishes.
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I have a satin finish on my maple topped Orion guitar and after a year or so of touring with it a lot of the top half of the body has buffed up to a nice shiny finish.
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So yeah, the satin polyester looks best on lighter color woods like Maple. That being said, the gloss brings out the most in the wood. Satin polyester on dark woods shows trapped skin oils in the fine scratches that form the satin rubout. The manual buffing process on this finish takes decades - it's really hard stuff but it will get shiny where you touch it the most.
The Orion guitar (and Epic, Orion, and Excel basses) originally had a polyurethane "Satin Natural" finish that sort of mimicked an oil finish. As Vince stated, it does buff up over time where you touch it most frequently, and we no longer offer this finish (actually the manufacturer discontinued it shortly after we stopped buying it so nobody uses it anymore).
Like Keith said, oil also shines up where you touch it a lot, but you can wax it or even reoil if needed to restore the original look. With an oil finish, you don't have much protection for scuffs and scratches to the wood.
We use our classic polyester finish which is the same since 1981. The standard is for glossy body with a satin neck feel, kinda best of both worlds. If you want the satin all over or the gloss all over no problem and no charge.
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Thank You All... it's something to think about.
I'll scan through the Showcase threads in search of a couple examples. I also wonder if there's any difference in how quickly the maple ages and darkens, between oil or polyester finish?
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Been digging around in the Customs and Signature Showcase threads. So, I seem to remember reading somewhere Brown Basses are typically oil finished... (may be way off with that assumption)
Whatever it is, I really like the look of this one; http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8763.0 though I was specifically looking for a maple topped example.
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Brown basses are oil finish - so are the Retros. I don't have any sort of a recent picture of an oil finished Maple instrument, sorry.
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Just thinking of proxies. How close of a look would one of your maple cutting boards be to an oil finish on a bass? I know they use salad bowl oil but was thinking it might work. How about any of the work by your Uncle Bob? I know I've seen a number of things he's made over the years that used maple.
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Thanks Mica. ;)
We'll catch up on it sometime... I may be over-thinking things, and prematurely at that. Although I haven't seen it, I'm told your Mom picked out a spectacular piece of birdseye maple... so there's a good argument for high gloss to maximize the effect. On the other hand, you know I'm a sucker for vintage minutiae, and I honestly love the feel of satin finish.
Anyway, if I'm paddling a little to far from shore, you may have to reel me back in. ;D
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I understand the appeal of the satin finish, but I also seem to remember seeing several white-wood satin instruments that actually started getting dirty. Would not be a concern with a gloss finish rubbed to a satin finish by ALEMBIC's laborious work, but even still, it's gonna get shiny where the rubber meets the road over time. Really primo birdseye would just ZING with their level of clear coat, but that's my two cents.
Joey
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My first Alembic was an Electrum with a birds-eye top in Satin finish. I thought it looked sweet. Here's some pics (though the first one appears to have been eaten by the site transition Gremlin :o )
http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=9005.msg105827;topicseen#msg105827 (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=9005.msg105827;topicseen#msg105827)
Bill, tgo
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Personally I prefer the high gloss finish on most woods, especially on the newer basses. Still debating, however as to whether I want tu use it for the Series 1 refurbish I'm going to have done. Maybe use satin on that one.
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Updated - Now that I've seen my bass for the first time (Thanks Mica!) the birdseye maple in Bill's Electrum is very similar. Jazzyvee's recently acquired Series I short-scale bass also has a maple top, and looks (in pictures at least) to have been refinished in satin. That look really appeals to me.
http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8329.0 (newest pictures near bottom of the thread)
I'm going to think on it for a couple more days, but will need to make a call soon, as it's almost time for finish. I may end up flipping a coin... there's just no bad call to be made here.
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If in doubt, leave it to the crew at Alembic to decide which finish would work best. They've seen thousands of instruments and always seem to get it right.
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Yes you are right it is finished in satin and for a plain non dramatic wood I think it works well. I doubt my series II with quilted maple would look as impressive with a matt finish.
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A gloss finish will give a lot more depth to the wood than a satin one will. I can see a big difference in the walnut tops of my Brown Bass and 5-string Orion. Both have their appeal but the wood definitely has a more 3D look on the Orion with a gloss finish. My personal feeling is you will lose some of that 3D wood pop with a satin finish on the birds-eye maple.
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Thanks for the solid advice fellas. 8)
I'll be having a conversation with Mica sometime this week anyway, since we're down to the last few details before the finish process begins. Of course (like Toby says) they do this all the time, and instinctively know what works best. I, on the other hand, probably won't be doing this again, at least not anytime soon. (notice how I left that one hanging?) ::)
Seriously, it's a tough call. I keep looking at the picture trying to imagine it either way. Updates to follow, and possibly photographic support. :o
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Without giving too much away, here's the palette we're dealing with:
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I like satin too, but for those woods, gloss. All the way.
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Gloss for sure, big guy!
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Obviously, the best thing is to do it in gloss, and then do a second one in satin. :)
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Had a few minutes to talk with Mica about it yesterday evening, and finally made a decision. The neck will have the satin feel, as per standard/default, but the body will get rubbed out to a little more lustre. Less than the full mirror-like gloss, but still shiny... let's call it semi-gloss. This was somewhat of a compromise not mentioned here, so you guys will be as surprised as I will be with the outcome.
I'm told it's almost ready for the finishing process. So naturally, I didn't sleep a wink last night. Tonight isn't looking good either. ;D
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Gregory , I like that decision ! I think that would be my preference as well .
Wolf
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Semi-gloss for bird's-eye maple sounds good to me. Some woods need the gloss to bring out the grain, especially flamed wood, like maple or koa. Others looks great with a satin, matte, or oil finish. Bird's-eye works well with the satin. My first Alembic was an Electrum with a bird's-eye top in a satin finish. Very handsome instrument. The nice thing about a satin poly finish is that you can always buff it to a high gloss any time you want.
Bill, tgo
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It will be just gorgeous.
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@Wolf - when it grows up, I hope it takes on that amazing amber color of your old #32. Yours may be why I went with birdseye maple in the first place. ;)
@Bill - between your Electrum, and Jazzyvee's Series I shorty, that maple under satin sold me.
@Adriaan, I think you and Toby both called it a few posts back, but finally I just put my trust in the folks out there... after hearing the pros/cons between oil or poly finish, I only asked Mica if they could just split the difference between satin and glossy. It'll be awesome however it turns out.
I gotta' find some way to tune back out again. All this is terribly exciting. Thanks Again fellas, and ladies.
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Hm, if you want amber, my guess is you should ask for a tint, as the new finish won't yellow as the old finish did.
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Almost did... one of the things Mica said was that the oil finish tends to darken immediately, but conversely the poly finishes they use actually resist darkening. Nah, I'm good with whatever shade it takes on naturally. (but I've always had a thing for that wood on Wolf's old bass... it's just amazing.)
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I have a satin finish on my zebrawood bass and it still brings out the depth in the grain. My birds eye maple bass has a gloss finish and that looks nice too! I'm interested to see what the semi-gloss looks like, I'm sure it will be nice. You might be setting a trend!
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Not to worry, they just don't get things wrong when it comes to woods and finishes.
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(Amen!)
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Here's some pics of my new SC Brown, flamed walnut, oil finish, I just fell in love with the look of this bass and bought it.
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That's how it was with me, too! I walked into the store, saw the bass... end of story. (I bought it!) Congrats, beautiful bass, and excellent choice!
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Yeah, what growly said... that Brown Bass of yours is a fine specimen. ;)
I reckon my bass may be in the spray room by now... after going back and forth between oil and poly, I finally settled on the latter, but asked for it to be polished out to a semi-glossy shine... if possible, to split the difference between satin-feel and the mirror-like gloss.
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Hey thanks guys :-). Hey EoH, I'm sure it will come up a treat, particularly with the maple, I think you've made a good choice, and hey, at least you've decided now, no more umming and ahhring LoL. Looking forward to the pics (like a few others here I suspect).