Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: LMiwa on December 04, 2008, 12:39:17 PM
-
My trusty Trace Elliot GP12SMX is finally starting to give me problems. So I'm starting the quest for the perfect replacement!
I'm looking in the over $750 range, with no specific maximum. I'm looking for any and all suggestions and opinions, but please limit them to rack mount preamps only - no integrated amps, no floor / table top boxes. Also, they do not have to be available new - most of my equipment was purchased used, so a great piece of vintage gear would certainly be an option.
If you've owned something good or bad, I'd like to hear about it. If you've used something, tell me about the experience.
I'm sure there's a huge Alembic preamp user base here and I'm especially interested in hearing your comparisons to other preamps you've used.
Thanks,
Loch
-
Loch, both the F1X and F2B are great. If you're not running stereo then the F1X has a built-in DI and crossover. The F1X is more hifi, and the F2B is tubier/warmer/grittier. I played through a Trace for a while and if you like the sound, it may be tough to duplicate with anything else. There is a lot of control with 12 bands of EQ. You probably can't get the snarling snot-nosed monster with dripping fangs sound out of either of the Alembics like you can with the Trace.
One thing I'd like to add is make sure you have enough amp. I recently switched from a QSC PLX 2402 to a 3402, and while the 2402 was great, it would occasionally run out of headroom when I'd come slamming down on a D, E, F or G on the B string. The 3402 takes it and smiles. These older PLX amps are relatively affordable now, too, since te PLX II line came out. I keep seeing older Crest 7001's for even less. That would be a beast for sure, but the weigh 50 pounds and they're huge.
-
Imiwa..can you Trace unit be fixed, the GP12SMX is a great pre amp, very versatile with loads of tonal options.
Trace are producing amps again but not the pre amps anymore..If you want to keep that sound, there must be a decent engineer to sort it out
-
Aguilar DB680. No longer made and well worth finding. I absolutely love mine. Fabulous tone, 2 fully parametric EQs, 10 stages of tubey goodness. What more could you want? :-)
-
If cost is no object - the Hellborg Preamp by Warwick. Otherwise Alembic, Demeter or Aguilar.
-
Ditto for the Aguilar and the F1-X as I have both. Steer clear of the Ampeg stuff, it's a bit unreliable and the D.I. is useless. I have no experience with Demeter other than A/B-ing it against the DB 680. I was a bit torn though but it was the two bands of full parametric e.q. that won me over.
I did have a GP-12 myself and do miss it but after working with rotary e.q.'s I don't see going back to a graphic for tone shaping.
-
Loch.
The GP12 is an excellent preamp so if it can be revitalised, do it. I had one in a 4x10 coombo up till 2 years ago and I still miss it. Since then, I've used an F1-X, an SVP-PRO and am currently using Eden's WP100 Navigator. Of the three, I have to say the navigator is easily the most accomplished in terms of features with a stereo effects loop, mono side chain, recording DI, stereo desk outs, stereo outputs to the power amp and tuner out. This plus the associated footswitch makes it, ergonomically, the perfect gigging amp for me. As far as tone goes, the eden takes a bit of work but the range of possible tones is only limited by your imagination. Second on my list would be Ampeg's SVP-PRO which isn't as well featured as the Eden but does at least have tuner output and an effects loop. Also, the mute and graphic equaliser sections are footswitchable. If you're after a huge, growly tone, the ampeg is where you need to be looking although it's no longer being made so you'd need to look out for old stock or second hand. Alembic's F1-X, whilst a fine pre-amp giving a wide variety of sounds just wasn't featured enough for me. There's no Tuner output and no Mute facility although it is possible to run a tuner through the effects loop. Also, I prefer to have the DI at the rear of my rig and the power switch at the front. All said, you really need to spend some time with a shortlist and see which works best for you.
Graeme
-
Forget to say, if cost was no object I'd be looking at SWR's new Marcus Miller preamp. The specs are pretty impressive.
Speaking of impressive, TM Stevens was using Warwick's Jonas Hellborg rig at UK Bassday and his sound was huge!
Graeme
-
I have a demeter VTPB201S that gives a nice clean signal...great amp...very, very clean...
-
Sorry to be an amateur here.
I've got an Eden Navigator. I think it's just great!!
Range of sounds and controlability (?) just amazing!!
George
-
Graeme, that Jonas Hellborg stuff is fantasticaly out of 99.9% players price range. I'm quite pissed about it since I wanted to try and get my hands on some of it. It better sound huge for that price tag!
-
As with most other questions that relate to tone shaping, there's just no right answer. For me, it comes down to purpose and features. Here are a few things I've used and how they fit, which I hope will paint you a picture and make you think.
I have had an F-1X for several years. I love the basic tone it provides and I could use it very happily if I never had to change settings, or at least not at in-between-songs-on-stage speed. What it has sounds very alive, but still, it doesn't have all the tones in it. I don't really use this any more.
The F-1X was replaced by the Fender TBP-1 in my setup. It has virtually the same basic feature set, but adds some nice gigging features via the footswitch. Tonally, it isn't the Alembic. The 2-10-2 flat setting on the Alembic sounds so much sweeter than the same thing on the Fender. That said, something around 3-10-5 is pretty close to the Alembic's flat tone and is fine for live work when you factor in the benefits of the mid control, room EQ and drive circuit. I would seriously look at the new SWR Marcus Miller as an improvement over the TBP-1, but it may not be as much of an upgrade as I might hope for in the SWR-is-Fender world.
I have done the bar band thing for about 20 years. With a widely varied repertoire, and sometimes in a three piece band, it's nice to be able to dial in a tone that matches the tune a little better. Someone working in a single genre or playing their own tunes may do better with a single great bass tone, but it doesn't work as well when you're really stretching the varietal limits. For example, get a great tone for a Black Sabbath or AC/DC tune and then see what it sounds like when you play Moondance without tweaking any knobs. Get dialed in for Moondance and then try a Rush or Who tune. In that world, I believe the Line 6 XT or X3 products are the superior choice. With a neutral power amp and speaker setup, I can get something that works with a couple toe taps. It's never quite as good as the amp it's trying to emulate, but again, it's close enough to satisfy my needs for a live rig. I use four different settings on an XT these days and we sound better for the variety of tone.
Based on the above, you have to figure out what you need to do. A great tone that is just you, a little bit of versatility for live work, or dial-a-tone flexibility to approximate a wide variety of artists?
-bob
-
Adam, Some lucky reader of the UK's Bass Guitar magazine just won himself a full Hellborg rig - pre and power amps and 1x15 and 4x10 cabinets!
I'm not jealous. No, really.
Graeme.
-
Graeme
You've not piped up yet about your Navigator??
george
-
Bob; that's a nice analysis. I guess I come under the tone that is just you category. I never use the preamp (F-2B) or the SF-2 to change tone between songs; I just use the controls on the bass and the amount of reverb and chorus or flange.
-
some luck Graeme, some damn luck!
-
Indeed Adam, I don't think I've ever won anything in my life.
george I posted about the navigator 9 posts up ;-)
graeme
-
OOOOOPS!!
Sorry Graeme
You did extall the virtues of.to me.the best preamp on the market today!!
Thanks
George
-
I'm with Bob on this one. Playing in several bands always provides problems to me with 'signature' bass tones.
I hate having to tweak amp heads between numbers, especially in covers bands, so rely more so on my boss floorboard (GT-6B)for different patches & tone tweeks, having my amp set fairly flat, although my main amp head is a twin channel Markbass LMK with one channel set for fingerstyle & the other scooped slightly for slap. Any other adjustments are made from my Rogue, where the tone switches really come in handy.
When i went down the component rack route, i had a Trace elliot gp12 which was excellent at the time, but combining that with a RA 500 power amp & UV rack mount, the flight case weighed in at 6 stone! Mind you i think the Warwick Hellborg rack is quite weighty aswell, the power amp alone is about the 45lb + mark.
I envy players that can set their own signature tone & leave it, I'm sure the Eden navigator is a dream to use ( i used to use a metro twin channel combo with extension cabs)with a distinct Eden smoothness & versitility. The SWR Marcus pre-amp looks tasty as well & i've always wanted to track down an Alembic pre-amp, especially the super filter one but alas that looks to be 'work' to tweak the best tones from it.
As age creeps up & back problems!, weight issues are always fore-front of any rack seperates especially power-amps, to me, thats why i prefer the new(ish) 'digital' heads & neo speakers of the modern manufactures like Markbass,Genz benz etc.
Steve
-
I had the Trace GP12SMX series 6 for years,it was superb. I used it with two 4x10 cabs and it was amazing.
I sold it all a couple of years ago as i wanted something more portable and was in the same position as Loch.
I tried many different set ups but settled on the Ashdown Labs MK500 , this thing blew me away with the sound achievable(and the clever harmonic emphasis control).The people behind these where originally behind Trace. I more recently found out it's the same amp as the slap master Wojtek Pilichowski uses too, coupled with Ashdown 10 in drivers in there ABM cabs i really can't recommend this gear highly enough for the very very reasonable outlay.
Oh and by the way you don't have to be a slap fan to get the most from this amp either.
-
Imiwa,try the ALembic Superfilter by itself as a solid state preamp. It'll surpass the tone flexibility of the Trace.It'll also be a lot less noisey. If you want to warm it up you can always put a cheap tube mic pre in front of it until you can add a FX1 or F2B. The other side of the coin has me recommending the Demeter for straight plug in and play tone. I say this because myself and a few of the bass players and stores who own them (that I've talked to) have everything set flat and the bass set on one. Again try and buy the superfilter first.Then add any of the aforementioned preamps later on. Good hunting and God bless.
-
Like BKBASS Barry says: Alembic F** + Alembic SF-2 + Big A** s/s amp of ur choice + speaker cab(s) of ur choice = Tonal Nirvana!
-
I run this through an SVT and sometimes two! I want to move into a bi-amp rig though to get the separation of frequencies.(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/59127.jpg)
-
Do you have help lifting that Adam? ;-)
Using the Stereo/bi-amp switch and crossover and balance controls, this gives me very good frequency separation on the occasions I feel the need to go down that route....
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/59146.jpg)
I'm thinking of getting another pair of speaker cabinets and running a pair of 2 ohm stacks (1200 Watts / channel)- a bit over the top for most of our gigs but it would be perfect for the bigger venues we play - plus, it would scare my guitarists senseless ;-)
graeme
(Message edited by jacko on December 09, 2008)
-
I like your reasoning Graeme!
-
Graeme!!
Are you on drugs??
The sound of your rig at the Gathering was to say the least....superb!!
Why would you want to go for even more???
-
Mid life crisis?
Graeme ;-)
-
Graeme, I always need help to get that thing up on it's cabinet. The thing is at least 10-15 pounds lighter than my other rack which has my Aguilar DB 680 and Crown Macrotech 2400(which is 10-15 pounds heavier than the K2)and help is mandatory with that one!
-
Yes, but does it go up to 11?
(Message edited by Crobbins on December 13, 2008)
-
Well it does go up to turn that damn thing down!!.
-
Tell me about it! I just picked up a second one of these. Goes nicely with my 610 and 212. And since my whappo jr didn't sell I can run my 310 as well. Dual 1800's baby! They will still tell me to turn down but those few seconds of devastation will be really cool.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/59222.jpg)
(Message edited by dannobasso on December 13, 2008)
-
Danno; I can't tell what it is.
-
Epifani ul 902C dual 900 watt amps @ 4 ohms each 18 lbs.
-
>
It has been observed that you could buy a fairly reputable Neve channel clone for less than the Hellborg.
-
quote: If cost is no object - the Hellborg Preamp by Warwick. Otherwise Alembic, Demeter or Aguilar.
It has been observed that you could buy a fairly reputable Neve channel clone for less than the Hellborg.
-
I really appreciate all the input. So here's where I am right now...
I replaced the tube in the GP12 and so far it's behaving itself, so I don't have to replace it immediately.
I'd like to pick up an Alembic SF-2 and maybe a F-2B when they present themselves at very reasonable prices. However, I don't think I will be able to use these as my main performance preamp. They would be for experimenting and recording.
I've pretty much narrowed it down to two that have the flexibility and features that I need: the Eden Navigator WP-100 and the SWR Marcus Miller M2. Similar features, similar price. Proven, reliable, quality design vs fresh new design taking advantage of the latest technology.
I'm hoping to find some place where I can play them back to back. I suspect that they each have a signature sound instead of being completely transparent. I don't think I want to just jump in and buy one sight unseen like I did the GP12! If anyone has played both, I'd like to hear your impressions.
Thanks,
Loch
(Message edited by lmiwa on December 18, 2008)
-
double posting
(Message edited by jazzyvee on December 18, 2008)
-
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/59410.jpg)
Here is my Pre-amp rig which i think is quite popular on the forum.
I've never tried another pre-amp so I can't give any comparisons but I have no problems with this one.
Jazzyvee
-
Jazzy, Can you take a picture of back so i can make sure i hook everything up properly. Going to build similar rig. Thanks, John Always used combo amp until i got my Alembic. Now i want to use separates to get all the sound i know the Alembic has inside; out.
-
Sure will try to do that over the weekend sometime.
Cheers