Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: flaxattack on January 15, 2009, 09:00:54 AM
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ya know
i love animals-but this organization is such bullshit as proved by penn and teller and 60 minutes. i find it mind boggling that people go along with this stuff- ok so maybe they have a point about fur coats. no argument there.
i have watched interviews of their leader the pet worlds version of adolf hitler.
but this one tops the cake
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-peta-seakittens,0,1126182.story (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-peta-seakittens%2C0%2C1126182.story)
SEA KITTENS?
if these people were around a 100 yrs ago or more
they surely would have died from starvation or cold
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Seeing that fish is brain food, they're obviously not eating any.
OO
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At first I thought this was a thread about Humble Pie's old guitar player.
OO
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This thread has the potential to go south very quickly, but if anyone is interested, the following website espouses the philosophy upon which my wife and I base our diets. It focuses on the examination of the diets of traditional cultures vs those of modern by a dentist who compared their jaw structure, number of cavities, general health, etc.
http://www.westonaprice.org
(Message edited by hydrargyrum on January 16, 2009)
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My favorite food is Baby Seal.
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I'm preparing Bambi for dinner tonight. Since he was harvested in my backyard I know he was fresh and wasn't treated with hormones and antibiotics. Come this summer I will most likely be harvesting Sea Kittens as it is just to cold at this time of year to sit outside by the water.
Keith
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I love sea kittens but I couldn't eat them all the time(LOL)
These people are seriously out of context with the world, although they may have a very small point..fish stocks are dwindling..nah..serve them up please with a slice of lemon and fries thank you
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I've found that a good pounding with a Louisville slugger tenderizes Seal meat nicely. I have a feeling were going to hear from Dave pretty soon...
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you guys are sick, I'm going to shut off my computer and eat my Spotted owl soup in peace
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Sea kittens... so stupid it's genius! Look at all the people who are thinking about the over-harvesting of seafood now. I'm going to do my part by having hot dogs for dinner tonight.
Mike
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Boy would I loooove to insert an appropriate Dice Clay quote, but decorum prevents it's mentioning.
Oh BTW, I'm fixing some baked pasta dish with BEEF!, and a nice salad to push it all out.
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I thought that P.E.T.A. stands for People Eating Tasty Animals.
If God had not wanted people to eat animals he would have not put us at the top of the food chain or made the animals so yummy.
Slawie
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Yes Mike; sorry I'm late. I'm vegan, for both spiritual and health reasons. And you know the rest.
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If God wanted us to be vegetarian, he wouldn't have made animals out of meat...
We've got plenty of reasons to not take the food supply for granted. Lots of fisheries that were, aren't...
John
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So, apparently we can use the word bullshit at liberty on this site - see Flax's initial post - and not be censored, but if you use the incoming President's last name, THAT is verboten.
Hmmm...somehow I find that rather bass ackwards.
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I have not had seal. I would love to try it.
I will try anything. Living in Louisiana, I've had it all. Nutria, gator, snake, possom, etc...
I really like the alligator habanero sausage.
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Heated discussions about food don't generally yield visits from the FBI or Secret Service.
Not that this is a heated discussion, but everything here is posted on the Wickersham's private server and remains at their discretion..
John
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You have to see a lot of PETA's efforts in the same way that you'd view the old Yippie Levitate the Pentagon demonstration.
It's just an awareness campaign. They say it, it gets picked up and posted EVERYWHERE by outraged omnivores, they get publicity and people find out a little bit about their real causes. A few pescetarians might see it and figure out that fish aren't that different from bunnies and kittens, though, and they might change a few minds.
Either way, PETA shouldn't be seen as militant vegans trying to covert everyone. They're an advocacy group with a sense of humor.
/(vegan with a sense of humor)
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I have avoided comment here because this is dangerously close to both politics and religion.
Without passing judgment on the concept of animal rights or PETA as a whole, I can't believe too many people are going to jump on the sea kittens bandwagon. I have to wonder if the people over there are using too many mind-altering plant products while brainstorming on new campaigns.
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Agreed completely. They push the edge as far as they can in hopes that the center might move just a wee little bit..
John
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Hi Ken; welcome to the board!
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Thanks, Dave! It's always nice to meet another vegan in unlikely places.
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Hee hee!
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If they really have a sense of humor, it's too bad that they always come across as a bunch of militant vegans trying to convert everyone. I suppose it's a matter of perspective.
From what research I have seen, somewhere around 4-5% of the population is vegetarian and maybe 10-15% of those are vegans. With as many people as we have coming through the boards, there were bound to be a few of you! Just remember, though, you're heavily outnumbered...
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women, the other red meat - from a bumper sticker. Maybe I'll start a favorite bumper sticker post....
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That's one I can get behind! ;)
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I don't know what you guys are all bitching about. I love peta! Especially filled with falafel and some tahini sauce. It's bread, but it's flat, and you can put stuff in it. What a concept! Now excuse me while I go find a toad to lick.
Bill, tgo
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As an aspiring chef and cook, I'd offer the following ...
There's room on Earth for all of God's creatures ... right next to the mashed potatoes.
Alan
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Also, a quote from Anthony Bourdain, chef, author, and host of the Travel Network's No Reservations ....
Vegetarians, and their Hezbollah-like splinter faction, the vegans, are a persistent irritant to any chef worth a damn. To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living. Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for, the pure enjoyment of food.?
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When I was living in Nashville, some 20+ years ago, JT Corenflos and I used to eat at a place called The Laughing Man in Hillsboro I think. All vegetarian, and some of the most spectacular eats I've ever enjoyed. Simply incredible food, and no meat...
John
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I find being an omnivore has added to the quality of my life. There is something extremely satisfying about a well prepared steak with Magi sauce. I also find that those who preach tolerance for lifestyles that may be an affront to me seem to be the least tolerant of the lifestyles of others. On a veggie plus though, we cannot metabolize cellulose so it is the perfect food to keep our large and small intestines clean and free from being afflicted with the non-beneficial matter of our meat and starch way of life. Also, what of the bivalves, crustaceans and mollusks? Don't they deserve misleading pet names too? Cause they go good with steak as well!
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Soylent Green is people!!!
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Bill, I thought that was Matza bread!
OO
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I like potato chips
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if you want a really good bbq sauce
try jonathans bbq sauce
my store used to carry it but i ended up buying online
the cajun is superb! its not overly hot- has a nice bite with a touch of sweetness
the honey is great on wings
and the teriaki rocks on meat
heres another tasty tidbit- take your fav bbq sauce and toss in a little horseradish(gold's recommended)
meat rocks
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...now with more GIRLS!
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/60219.gif)
John
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Public service message to those who are vegan or considering veganism: it is a lifestyle choice not to be made lightly, and should be done with the assistance of a health professional that understands veganism and it's associated health risks.
I'd personally suggest seeing a licensed naturopathic physician (which may not be an option in your state- not all states license naturopaths).
Bradley
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Public service message to those who are carnivores or considering carnivorism: it is a lifestyle choice not to be made lightly, and should be done with the assistance of a health professional that understands carnivorism and it's associated health risks.
Bradley; while I fully understand and agree with your concern that vegans should have a good grounding in nutrition and should pay close attention to their diets, the same can be said for everyone. Heart disease, obesity, and diabetes are just three of the most obvious examples of this. There are a lot of vegans and vegetarians here in Asheville. My personal observations of the people that I know suggest that as a gross generalization, vegans and vegetarians study and understand a lot more about nutrition, and pay attention to their diets, than do non-vegetarians. One cheap and easy example, vegans don't eat at McDonalds.
My personal experience is that a vegan diet is exceedingly healthy. And my personal opinion is that it is exceedingly more healthy than eating animal products.
Eating is first and foremost about being healthy, about supplying our selves with the nutritional fuel that will keep us as healthy as possible both near term and long term.
In my view, everything one puts into their body is important. Body, mind, and spirit are interconnected. Everything we do in life, every moment, is precious.
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I've got to disagree with Dave here, with all respect. Eating is about pleasure. If we concerned ourselves only with being healthy, to quote Colonel Trautman from the Rambo movies, we'd be eating things that would make a billy goat puke. This is the problem in the US, if you ask me - we're so worried about nutrition that we forget that eating is more than nutrients. It is culture, shared experiences, memories. I'd rather eat good food properly prepared with care and with people I care about than count every carb, fat, and protein. I mean, what's the point of eating if one is fretting over every gram of fat, carb, etc.? It takes all the joy out of it if you ask me.
This being said, sure there are some folks who's health problems dictate they must eat certain foods, and not others. And that's cool. Others make a choice not to eat certain foods, and that's fine as well.
What bugs me as a cook and aspiring chef is that some of these folks on the fringes would deny us those things we take pleasure in as omnivores or carnivores. Don't believe me? Last year, Chicago banned foie gras (livers from specially fattened ducks). Apparently, someone in their city council objected to the way the ducks are raised (they are force fed grain with a tube), and hence the ban. It was reversed in 2008, but you can see my point. Who are they to tell me and others who enjoy foie gras what we can eat and what we can't? I mean, what's next? Peanut butter?
Vegans and vegetarians, due to their choice, by nature have to pay more attention to their diets and nutrition mainly because a lot of the nutrients they need are abundant in animal products and less so in vegetable products. Meats are full of proteins, while vegetables (with the exception of quinoa) are not for the most part. The body needs protein, as well as carbohydrates and fat, and most veggies are high in carbohydrates, have some fats, but are generally low in protein. As a result, vegans and vegetarians must pay more attention to their diet - if they didn't there would be serious health risks.
I live above a vegan/vegetarian restaurant here in Montpelier VT where I'm attending culinary school. I ate there once. Much of what they had was very bland tasting to me. It may have had something to do with the seasoning, but I expected more - when one takes animal fats out of the diet, meat, etc., they must be replaced with something that is visually appealing, tastes good, and has good texture. None of what I ate had that, although I admit it wasn't the worst thing I've ever eaten.
BTW, I don't eat at McDonald's, Burger King, KFC, Pizza Hut or any of the other fast food places either. It's garbage IMHO. If others want to eat there, great. I wouldn't go out of my way to ban them like some of the PETA folks did with foie gras in Chicago.
In the end, as a cook and aspiring chef, I have no choice but to accomodate their wishes even though I don't necessarily agree with their choices (tempeh is the nastiest thing I've ever eaten, and I've eaten fresh, still squirming squid tentacles in Korea). Besides, grilled veggies suits my food cost just fine.
Alan
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Avoiding the foie gras argument, (I came upon veganism without prodding and I don't try to change minds about touchy subjects like that)
Just like there are omnivores that count calories to the point of taking pleasure out of eating, there are vegans who do the same. Unfortunately, they sometimes decide to open restaurants serving bland food with a heavy focus on animal rights. You can typically tell these from the PETA leaflets just inside the door.
On the other hand, there are places like Horizons in Philly who rise to the challenge of limited ingredients and make something truly stunning. I've never met an omnivore who came out of Horizons feeling like something was missing. The places that realize that restaurants are about pleasure and not politics can do wonderful things.
Just like you can't group every omnivore together, vegans cannot be painted with one broad stroke. There's the New Farm Cookbook and then there's the Veganomicon and Vegan Cupcakes Take Over the World. They're all vegan cookbooks but only one has a fascination with keeping it super healthy. The other two are about enjoying what yourself. Cooking and eating should be fun!
I, for one, appreciate the ability to take an active role in making what I eat and making it taste really good. As a student, I can't afford the cuts of meat that it would require to make an exceptional meat-based dish but I can afford the ingredients for most anything in Veganomicon. Plus, the DIY aspect of seitan (wheat meat) is fascinating to me.
I'm lucky enough to have a group of friends back home who are all vegan and who all appreciate good food. We came to veganism through different paths and we don't talk about PETA or Tyson or Hallmark. We bond over something we share, eat great food, and have fun. It IS culture, shared experiences, memories. We just use different ingredients.
Sorry if that was a bit rambly; I typed this in the middle of making dinner. Anyone want homemade soup?
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I've never heard of Tempeh. I looked it up... stinky Tofu??? The worst thing I ever had was Durian... it ruined my appetite for about 3 days.
The most adventurous (and expensive) meal I've ever had was at Guy Savoy in Las Vegas. My wife and I got a 10 course tasting menu. It was all so pretty that I hated to eat it!!!
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I remember Durian from Singapore. I kept my distance and never tried it. The smell is bad enough, I can't imagine what it would taste like.
Eating in Singapore... now that's fun!
Great beer too! (Tiger and Anchor)
Mike
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Dave,
I get your point (and extra points for the carnivore straw man), but eating a balanced diet as a vegan is difficult, and requires diligence and planning to avoid protein deficiency.
Even if you don't have a hormone condition like Steve Jobs, protein deficiency is the default setting for veganism. It takes work to move it from that state.
This is not an endorsement or a condemnation, but I've seen one too many people get sick from veganism, mainly due to not understanding that you absolutely must eat protein to be healthy (and that getting that protein is difficult on an all-vegetable diet).
Bradley
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Just to clarify... plants contain protein. Also understand that we don't absorb and utilize whole proteins. Proteins are digested and broken down into their constituent amino acids. The amino acids are absorbed and can then be used to build new proteins, used as a source of energy, or even converted into glucose. There are 20 amino acids of which 8 are so called essential because the body cannot synthesize them from other compounds. Therefore, they must be obtained from food. It's the amino acid distribution in plant protein that can lead to problems.
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Mike,
Yes, veggies have protein. Just nowhere near as much as other foods, particularly meat and eggs. This is what makes it difficult for vegans and vegetarians. If plants had enough protein, it wouldn't be a problem to be on an all veggie or partial veggie diet. That they don't have as much protein makes such a diet that much more challenging protein-wise. This was what I was trying to say, and unfortunately didn't do a good job (;-)).
For everyone's info, here's a few things from the Complete Book of Food Counts. I chose lean meats to provide a better comparison - I think we all know fatty meats (e.g., ribeyes, certain cuts of pork, etc.) will contain more fat.
Beef Flank Steak, braised, 31.8 grams protein, 14.7 grams fat (4 oz portion)
Pork Loin, lean 39.1 grams protein, 16.4 grams fat (4 oz portion)
Carrots, fresh, whole, raw, 2.8 oz, .7 grams protein, .1 grams fat
Tempeh, 4 oz, 21.6 oz protein, 8.8 grams fat
Seitan Mix, 5 oz, 44 grams protein, 2 grams fat (big surprise here - hard flours are used, which are about 15% to 17% protein)
Tofu, raw, 4 oz, 9.2 grams protein, 5.6 grams fat
Alan
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well now..........
here is my attitude
EAT WHATEVER THE HECK YOU LIKE, ENJOY IT WHILE YOU CAN AND NO MATTER WHAT YOU EAT?
YOU WILL DIE FROM SOMETHING SOME DAY
and when i die i get to come back and start all over again......
:-)
if man wasnt meant to eat meat- why did he invent BBQ!
i once asked a cousin of mine why she was a vegetarian- she replied back that she couldnt eat anything that felt pain when killed
me being me said- let me ask you a question
how do YOU know for sure that the broccoli didnt feel anything when it was chopped off the plant?
or how DID that carrot feel being pulled from the ground? just because a plant doesn't have a brain don't think it doesn't feel pain. It may feel pain on a level you cannot possibly comprehend.
btw- when did my thread get hijacked into a vegan of all things dialogue
this was about the morons running peta
:-)
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I shoulda stayed on the teat and passed up this whole solid food thing! hehehehe
Bill, tgo
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Insert Firesign Theater joke from Waiting For the Electrician here:
Aw Mom! I'm not hungry.
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Bill, I try to get back on one whenever possible!
John
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Two things that are guaranteed to kill you.
1. Guilt
2. Regret
Live your life so as to avoid either of these human conditions.
Regardless of how you chose to get to the end of it, your life will be sh!tload easier.
Slawie
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Everybody believes in something, I believe I'll have another beer.
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Bill & John.
two things aimed specifically at small children and appreciated more by adult men. One is model railroads*, you've already mentioned the other ;-)
graeme
* I was going to say train set - would you have understood?
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I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I'm a vegetarian because I HATE plants.
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Jacko,
Yep, train set is a 100% pure translation across the pond.
Mike
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For the sake of humor, and at the risk of offending some (gasp!) I present some Jefferson Airplane lyrics:
You say nothing's right but natural things
Ah, you fool
Poison oak is a natural plant
Why don't you put some in your food
Natural food
I don't care if there's chemicals in it
Is long as my lettuce is crisp
Preservatives might just be preserving you
I think that's something you missed
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And from Paul Kantner's Silver Spoon:
What if you were
starving to death and
they only food you had
was me - what would
you say to the cannibal
question? Would your
answer be perfectly
free?
Your mama told you never
to eat your friends
with your fingers and
hands, but I say you
ought to eat what
you will - shove it
in your mouth any way
that your can....
Where are the bodies for dinner?
I want my food!
Bill, tgo
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Actually Bill, Silver Spoon was written by Grace Slick.
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If God didnt want us to eat animals then why did he make them out of meat????
Just a thought.
John.
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John; humans are made of meat too. Just a thought.
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bacon, the perfect meat. needs no seasoning just a good seasoned cast iron skillet and a hot flame. Pork fat rules! Thank you Emeril Lagasse.
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Dave my apologies for the dose of British (ironic) humour!
But, hey, cannibals use that justification you suggested!
John.
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All this talk of cannibals reminded me of Flanders and Swann, from the early sixties. I was going to post the lyrics to The Reluctant Cannibal; instead here's a link (http://www.nyanko.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fas/hat_canib.html target=_blank).
My guess is that this is a duo few regulars on this list remember. I daresay none of their material is in our playlists :-)!
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Cannibals and music, whatta combo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTqQJlzGt2c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTqQJlzGt2c)
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John; humans are made of meat too. Just a thought.
And our nucleotides are identical to those of a Maple tree in composition. . .
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Don't worry... my bark is worse than your byte
sincerely,
the syrup lover
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Well, as my Father always used to say - always fight fire with fire!
............its probably the main reason he was kicked out of the fire brigade!
John.
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They're made out of Meat
by Terry Bisson
They're made out of meat.
Meat?
Meat. They're made out of meat.
Meat?
There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through. They're completely meat.
That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars.
They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines.
So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact.
They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines.
That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat.
I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector and they're made out of meat.
Maybe they're like the Orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.
Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea the life span of meat?
Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the Weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside.
Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads like the Weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through.
No brain?
Oh, there is a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat!
So... what does the thinking?
You're not understanding, are you? The brain does the thinking. The meat.
Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!
Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you getting the picture?
Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat.
Finally, Yes. They are indeed made out meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years.
So what does the meat have in mind?
First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the universe, contact other sentients, swap ideas and information. The usual.
We're supposed to talk to meat?
That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there? Anyone home?' That sort of thing.
They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?
Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat.
I thought you just told me they used radio.
They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat.
Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?
Officially or unofficially?
Both.
Officially, we are required to contact, welcome, and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in the quadrant, without prejudice, fear, or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing.
I was hoping you would say that.
It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?
I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? \Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?
Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact.
So we just pretend there's no one home in the universe.
That's it.
Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you have probed? You're sure they won't remember?
They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them.
A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream.
And we can mark this sector unoccupied.
Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?
Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again.
They always come around.
And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the universe would be if one were all alone.
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http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=KfVKkEN7CsU
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Not to re-kindle the discussion, but I found this (http://planetsave.com/blog/2009/01/30/petas-sea-kitten-campaign-gets-pranked-with-steak-ad/) pretty funny.
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Here at the University of Football- er, Florida, we have the PETA Barbeque
People Eating Tasty Animals!
Whaddaya want... we've got a big agriculture college, and beef is a big industry around here :-)
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THEY'RE BACK
they are going after mcdonalds for the way they kill their chickens
seems a jolt of electricity followed by throat cutting- they way most chickens in this country are done in is inhumane and they want chickens killed by gassing which is done in england. yup choking to death seems more humane to me- yea right= do i want to eat a chicken that been carbon monoxided?
kfc reported that after peta went after them (ps- they never caved in-) business went up at the stores they protested in front of.
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There's a joke in there somewhere flax, but I think I'll leave it alone.
OO
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I eat meat and I wear leather... but... it's certainly possible to get along without them. Perhaps it's an evolutionary step that will take many generations.
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Jeff. Where did yo hear that we gas chickens over here? i think that would be a pretty expensive and labour intensive way of doing it. Sounds to me like we do it in exactly the same way as the US.
Taken from the compassion in world farming (http://www.ciwf.org.uk/farm_animals/poultry/meat_chickens/welfare_issues.aspx) website....
At the slaughterhouse, chickens are typically hung by their feet on shackles whilst conscious, which is likely to be painful, particularly as leg problems are common. The birds are usually stunned by being dipped, head first, into an electrified water bath before their throats are cut. This stunning is often ineffective: the struggling birds sometimes raise their heads and miss the water, resulting in fully conscious birds having their throats cut.
Life for chickens doesn't sound very fulfilling. perhaps that's why Mr and Mrs jackson spent valentines at david bann's (http://www.davidbann.com/) vegetarian restaurant.
Graeme
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As told by a friend of mine, who had numerous occasions to go to chicken processing plants:
The normal process is that the semi backs to the door, and the chickens are released, at which point they all flock to the guy that is putting them in the machine. So he's standing there hanging them by their feet, and they all line up like they are getting on a ride.
...Except for three of them, which go to the furthest point from the slaughter.
Some smart aleck spray painted over this spot: Don't kill us, we're the smart ones!