Alembic Guitars Club

Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: drjenney on June 25, 2009, 07:38:50 AM

Title: F# String?
Post by: drjenney on June 25, 2009, 07:38:50 AM

Is anyone in the club using an Alembic strung with a low F# string?  
 
I've got a six stringer I've been thinking of changing over and am looking for feedback. I play in church and more and more music, especially orchestral music, has me wishing for a little more lower end.  
 
While we're at it, any recommendations for a speaker that would handle these frequencies? [I'm sure the church PA wouldn't! ] I've been looking at both Accugroove and Bag End.
 
Thanks,
Dr. J

Title: F# String?
Post by: olieoliver on June 25, 2009, 07:44:22 AM

I assume you mean F# a 4th lower than B. WOW that's pretty low. I wonder how the string tension would be?

Title: F# String?
Post by: terryc on June 25, 2009, 07:56:27 AM

Bloody hell..that is LOW!!!
I think the tension would be very sloppy and would any amp & speaker be able to translate that into a useable sound??
On a keyboard it may register but a vibrating string..maybe not

Title: F# String?
Post by: hydrargyrum on June 25, 2009, 08:42:24 AM

would any amp & speaker be able to translate that into a useable sound
 
That was my thought on the matter as well.

Title: F# String?
Post by: David Houck on June 25, 2009, 09:07:16 AM

A low F# is within the range of Bag End Infra (Elf) systems.

Title: F# String?
Post by: funkyjazzjunky on June 25, 2009, 09:24:13 AM

You may want to check a Conklin Bass forum (if it exists) as they make a number of 7 string basses with low F#

Title: F# String?
Post by: hieronymous on June 25, 2009, 10:28:49 AM

Or go to talkbass.com and look up JAUQO III-X

Title: F# String?
Post by: dannobasso on June 25, 2009, 01:44:32 PM

Anthony Senatore a fellow Alembic lover uses a Warwick Dark Lord with that set up. Hit him up at www.senny.com (http://www.senny.com)

Title: F# String?
Post by: dnburgess on June 25, 2009, 02:58:48 PM

Accugroove make a 18 sub (the Whappa Grande) for these applications. Biamped or just in parallel with an El Whappo it is mental.

Title: F# String?
Post by: keith_h on June 25, 2009, 03:23:22 PM

+1 Dave's comment on the Bag End Infra (or ELF for the older systems). Doesn't someone make a 21 sub that might do the trick?  
 
Keith

Title: F# String?
Post by: LMiwa on June 25, 2009, 03:48:59 PM

Keith,
 
Your request has been granted x 4!
 
http://www.bagend.com/bagend/downloads/bassault-r.pdf (http://www.bagend.com/bagend/downloads/bassault-r.pdf)
 
Loch

Title: F# String?
Post by: keith_h on June 25, 2009, 03:53:44 PM

Loch,  
That's it. I had heard and felt it when I was at the Chicago Gathering.  
 
Keith

Title: F# String?
Post by: cozmik_cowboy on June 25, 2009, 04:13:29 PM

The Whappo Grande is actually 21 (even better!)
 
Peter

Title: F# String?
Post by: sonicus on June 25, 2009, 04:32:42 PM

This low F#  = 23.1HZ  __________________
 
THATS A GROUND SHAKER!!!   maybe a ground pounder !!!!!!

Title: F# String?
Post by: drjenney on June 25, 2009, 05:06:51 PM

Wow! Thanks for the quick [and helpful] suggestions. I'm aware of the El Whappo Grande and the Bag End Infra/Elf systems, but never actually heard from anyone who owned played through one.  
 
I did see the low F# on the Conklin basses, but again, haven't talked with anyone about its practicality.  
 
I probably will rarely hit the F#, but a Bb and an A would often be useful, especially as they would then appear further up the neck. I typically play there.
 
Besides, just imagine how many people in church would think they heard from God!

Title: F# String?
Post by: Bradley Young on June 26, 2009, 09:58:55 PM

The Elf will do the deed, I would not recommend the Whappo Grande.
 
The Grande does not have the ability to produce the fundamental-- the box is simply too small.  Based on the driver, it would have to be 9 or 10 cubic feet to really go down that low.
 
That being said, the fundamental isn't really all that important on a bass guitar; you mostly hear the second harmonic, which would be 46Hz.
 
One cabinet that definitely goes that low is the Acme.  They sound great, but require much power.  my low B-2 is feeling great when I hit it with 500 watts.  They are commonly hailed as being not loud, which I'd disagree with: feed them enough power, and they get loud.
 
As far as practicality, I'd submit that anything that low is just sound and not musical.  You have to judge that for yourself, though.
 
Bradley

Title: F# String?
Post by: dnburgess on June 27, 2009, 01:22:07 AM

Andy Lewis does not recommend Acme cab's for sub low B applications. They are -6db at 30Hz (close enough to low B) and the design is such that they fall off steeply below that.
 
The Whappo Grande is -6dB at 19Hz.

Title: F# String?
Post by: richbass939 on June 27, 2009, 09:20:42 AM

I remember seeing some ads in Bass Player a couple of years ago that had Chuck Rainey claiming that the Phil Jones Bass amps (all with banks of 5 speakers, I think) would handle his F#.  I always wondered how that really worked but I don't have any personal experience with either 5 speakers or a low F#.
Rich

Title: F# String?
Post by: benson_murrensun on July 01, 2009, 10:57:22 AM

I had to check out the link to the BAGEND Bassault R (thanks lmiwa). Very impressive! Especially the weight - 310 lbs! I can't wait til they start using neo speakers, so they can bring the weight down to a practical 275 lbs. or so... heh heh. I'll stick with my Acmes for now.

Title: F# String?
Post by: LMiwa on July 01, 2009, 11:45:48 AM

According to the PJB site, the 8T/24B combination is good down to 23Hz.
 
I have the 8T/16B combo that is spec'd to 27Hz, and that's about right. I tune my basses down a 1/2 step, so my low Bb is about 28Hz.

Title: F# String?
Post by: bkbass on July 07, 2009, 09:23:00 AM

I had a Warmoth Gecko that was originally strung up as a sub six. Tuned F#,B,E,A,D,G. I had left the nut unglued so I could switch it back to a regular contrabass within 1/2 hour or so using a standard nut. The F# was a 145 gauge from D'ADDario. Several problems arose. More than two thirds of my amps would not track the lower frequencies. 1000watts pre amp/amp setup sucked it dry in seconds. Cheap practice amp no problem go figure. Most likely only able to reproduce 2nd or 3rd harmonics. The only tuner,and I have them all from $19.99 up to rack mounts, to accurately track the lower freqs.was the white Boss TU?? floor stompbox tuner. The lower frequency exploration is a full commitment time and dollar wise. The asymetrical neck of Maple with Bubinga stringers held up with no neck tension /warping problems, the Ducan PU'S tracked fine and the bridge saddle was left grooved for a low B so it had to be next to bottomed out in it's height but did so on the Hip Shot bridge.The biggest expense is in the amps/cabs. There's not much to choose from and it's expensive. If I were going to seriously pursue extra lower freqs. I would vie for around 3 thousand watts and a properly made cab. Not to decry Bag End or Accugrove's efforts. US Speaker does carry several manufacturers of 21 speakers. The raw speakers are expensive approx.$750+ Perhaps a local builder or Low Down Sound could make a proper box. I'm sure Dr.Bass would be up for the build. I read a lot of heavy metal players are detuning their basses and running them through SVT stacks. I have a raised eyebrow on whether or not they are actually getting clean clear bass fundamental with the full frequency doubling and halfing of the wave form. I believe the Ampeg 8x10 rolls off at 55cycles some one correct me please. I would offer that you go down to the local banjo center and try the Roland Bass synth or the octave peddle stomp boxes or even the rack mountable DJ bass extender processors out there. I know Peavey makes one also BBE etc. This way you can still explore while keep everything intact while spending the least amount of money and be able to quickly switch back and forth at the flick of a switch. Hope this helps.

Title: F# String?
Post by: sonicus on July 07, 2009, 10:15:07 AM

Thanks  bkbass__
    I really think that you have sized up as to what one is in for in this frequency range .______$$$$$$$_____________!
Perhaps if well done if might be worth the 'SHOCK AND AHH
The lowest used frequency that I know of that has been used for musical performance is SUB-CONTRA C@ 16hz!!!!   from a huge Bass pedal tone in a cathedral organ.What you hear is the 32hz second  harmonic!

Title: F# String?
Post by: keurosix on July 09, 2009, 04:24:57 PM

Greetings Dr. J.
I have an AccuGroove EL Whappo cab 4- way with 15 woofer, and it handles a low A tuning REAL good! Of course, you will need an extra long scale bass, 35 minimum. 36 or 37 is about right for a low F#. A 34 long scale bass sounds weak for a low B, and would not cut it for a low F#. I have to disagree somewhat with Bradley about the Whappo Grande: AccuGroove cabs are state of the art and will open up your ears to something magical. They publish the cab specs on their webpage, and are bold to say it does handle the F# fundamental:  
 
http://www.accugroove.com/ (http://www.accugroove.com/)
 
You WILL need a strong poweramp, and maybe your ears will or will not even hear it. But you WILL definately feel it!
Happy hunting!
Kris