Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: afrobeat_fool on September 28, 2009, 02:11:20 PM
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The guy I got my F-2b from in White Salmon, Ore got his Dingwall bass this week. I have never seen an instrument quite like this. The string length goes from 35 on the E string to 32 in the G string. Obviously you can see the advantage of angled pick ups. What throws me are the angled frets! He says it plays like a dream! I will find out this weekend when I play it in Hood River.(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/70935.jpg)
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I've played 2 different Dingwalls- the fanned fret thing took me about 15 minutes to get used to and then I found it to be incredibly comfortable.
I contemplated asking for a quote from Alembic to install fanned frets on the Elan I had built, but only had so much money to spend, so I opted not to bother. I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised when you play the bass.
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sorry double post
(Message edited by john judge on September 28, 2009)
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And so it begins.. True Temperament! I firmly believe by way of my other post that we are going to be seeing more of this in years to come.
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I'm not confident about this but I believe the fanned frets are patented and for another manufacturer to use them it would require a license. If you search the site I think you will find that Mica has made a comment about using fanned frets in an Alembic before.
Keith
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I remember that there there was a luthier in California that came out with that fanned thing a while back
called NOVAX , he is now in Oregon.
http://novaxguitars.com (http://novaxguitars.com)
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IIRC, Ralph Novak let the patent expire so that another builder may now use the fanned fret system without a license. Even if I'm mistaken about this, I also seem to remember that the licensing fee was very reasonable. The figure $75 seems to be sticking in my brain.
Bill, tgo
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I'm pretty sure Bill is right about the patent and about the licensing fee.
My concern about cost was how much it was going to cost me to have Alembic sort out the fret jig and I also really wanted the traditional bird tailpiece and couldn't think of a way to wrap my head around that. Alembic could easily use the individual saddles they use on the Spider basses, but alas, a spider is not a bird =)
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A spider is not a bird.
That kinda stands out as quite possibly the comment of the day.
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Since when do you need a licence to fret an instrument??..just because they are at an angle??
Would every luthier need a license to convert standard frets to these??
Sitars have a strange fret system, wide at one end, close in the middle and wide at the other..who has the patent on these??
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who has the patent on these??
Krishna? or maybe Ravi Shankar ;-)
Graeme
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LOL! Yeah I have a SItar and the fret's are actually adjustable they are tied on with bands of string so you can slide them forward or back slightly , but when the wood expands sometimes it gets really hard to move them, when I want to set the intonation up then the only luthier I know where to take it is to the Maharishna himself LOL OH just in case someone had questions about a Sitar or needs to know specifics please feel free to ask me but here is the basic 7 string tuning lay out, my Sitar has 7 main strings and Thirteen sympathetic, the sympathetic strings vary on different models, the main 7 string tuning goes like this..1st=F 2nd=C 3rd=G 4th=C(2 octaves above middle c) 5th=G(1 octave above 3rd string)6th= Middle C, 7th= 1 octave above middle C...so your sixth string is Middle C.it can take an Hour or even longer to get a perfect tuning on one of these...oh yeah then there are beads that you can slide forward or backward behind the bridge that work as fine tuners, so bewteen all the tuning intervals and octaves and droning sympathetic strings which break easily, thats where a lot of the fullness of sound passes through a hollow neck and projects from within and the top gourd...Just passing some information on to the curious minds
I bought it back in 1968, fun to play but hard to keep in tune, very sensitive to temperature changes and the pegs like to stick!
(Message edited by john judge on September 29, 2009)
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Love the sound of the sitar..very ethereal and soothing.
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Funny, I was trying to buy that F2-B also, but you beat me to it, I think? Craigslist posting, right?
Bye,
Dave
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OK, Toby, I've been looking at this, and I may have your answer...maybe one of our engineers or our Photoshop wizards can check to see if this would actually fit. The Dingwall is 22 frets - that gives more room to work with. Make it a standard point body. Move the E side of 22nd fret to the edge of the body, naturally taking the p/ups along for the ride. Have them modify the standard bridge to be a rhombus instead of a rectangle; you might still have room for a bird.
Peter, who has too much spare time. Know anyone hiring an archivist of historian? Or, for that matter, a soundman?
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Yeah, Dave. Craigslist, Portland. If you want to try one out, your welcome to have a look. just E-mail me and we will work it out. I am stoaked to have it. The tone is incredable! I always wondered how to get that PRO-TONE. Now I know, it's the Pre-amp. Especially for slap and pull!
I am working on a new tailpiece for this type of set up. Dave's post got me thinking about how a spider is not a bird, even though they both fly, make nests, and eat bugs. What if the tailpiece looked like a bird, with the e-string coming out of the tailfeathers, and the G-string coming out of the head? I am no engineer, but I'm working on some sketches and hope to post one today.
(Message edited by afrobeat_fool on September 30, 2009)
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Hey Nick, Already got one of those going on my Raven Bass design Bird tail piece and a neat bridge design along with some wicked bird wood for the body shaped like a bird in flights feathers of Flaming Koa, a few have seen it and can testify to it but I am just not ready to post it yet...Lol! John
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Interesting ideas on the alternate bird tailpiece...
I was set on the Elan bodyshape (my favorite) and I have always loved that traditional Alembic bird tailpiece.
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The Dingwall design isn't particularly new. They've been around for over a dozen years at least. It also isn't really about altering the temperament. The feature of fanned frets is that the fatter strings get a longer scale which allows them to hold more tension for their respective notes and, therefore, feel and sound less floppy. Meanwhile, the smaller strings where one might be inclined to solo and such aren't forced into the same longer scale which would tend to slow a player down. Typically, there's about a 3 scale difference between the two sides of the fretboard.
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Coincidantally, the british Bass Guitar magazine has an article about dingwall this month. Some very nice looking instruments on display. apparently, lee Sklar plays them exclusively now.
graeme
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just looking at that bass makes me seasick.
R.
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I'm told Lee uses an old P-bass in the studio...
John
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Bob's point about scale length is a good one- but the thing I noticed most about the Dingwalls was how comfortable they were to play once you got used to them. If you have the time (or interest) imagine playing those frets and move your hand up towards the nut- the fanned frets take the 'funky' angle out of your wrist and the same is also true for playing in the upper registers. The fanned frets allow for a very comfortable wrist and shoulder position- at least in my experience
(Message edited by tbrannon on October 03, 2009)
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Sorry John, you're probably right. In the article, Lee says it is the only bass I use live. More and more I'm reading interviews where the musician is using one make of instrument to record an album and a totally different one to tour.
Graeme
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Graeme,
I think he's pretty much stuck with what the producer wants in the studio..
Nashville likes it's bass old and Fender..
I remember when Henry Strzelecki played a Steinberger at the Opry. I really thought they were gonna burn the place down...
John
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Laying out the fret positions isn't that hard - on the bass side of the neck, it's 36 spacing (or whatever), on the treble side it's 33. Alembic calculates the fret positions and allows complete customization on scale length, so this isn't much of a challenge. I seem to remember that they had a robot/CNC setup to actually cut the fret slots, so that might not work though.
Part of the secret sauce of Novak's design isn't just the different scales, but the offset between the short side and long side, which had some sort of ergonomic basis. It doesn't looks like he split the difference, and I suspect that getting this right for the player is the difference between heaven and hell.
A design like this doesn't address intonation within keys. By having a longer scale on the larger strings, it does improve tension and the tone of the string. I don't think you can actually fix the equal-temperment intonation issues without making an instrument that can only play in tune in a single key.
David Fung
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Nick,
I'm curious to hear your impressions once you get to play it this weekend.
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Hi, Toby! I played it last night. It took a little getting used to, but I have to say, I'm impressed. Both with the angled frets for hand position, and the electronics. In the upper register the thing is a monster. It is very fluid, and the clarity of sound far up the fingerboard is good. I tend to pull on the strings in the upper positions and the angled frets did not disturb me too much. I don't think it's the bass for me, but I am glad for the experience. I am also thinking of going down to Eugene this week and sitting in the Dingwall studio with a few of his guitars. I think I will like this fret system on guitar. Hard to give up on my 56' Gibson 175DN for an axe like these.
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Nick,
Thanks for the report- I really liked both of the basses I played. Very comfortable, well built and I liked the electronics too. I wouldn't mind picking one up sometime if the price is right and I have the funds available.