Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: toma_hawk01 on August 24, 2010, 02:35:54 PM
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For optimum performance of your pickups, what are the optimum height space, in distances in millimeters (space) between your E string, and pickup surfaces?
For example:
My Neck pickup = 2mm distance between the E String
and Bridge pickup = 3mm distance between E String
This also is beautiful for the world to know your signature setting too.
Everybody is a Star!
Thanks
Peace and Love,
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on August 24, 2010)
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Hal, is that 2 or 3mm clearance with the string unfretted, or are you pushing the string down at the last fret?
J o e y
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Before pushing down on the fret with either bass type (a fretted or fretless)... there's a clearance or middle space between the neck pickup and the bridge pickup, in relationship to the E string.
I am trying to figure out the relative height from each pickups (neck and bridge) people prefer.
If it's not asking too much, I would be very interested (as this might be great for others too...) in knowing everyone's signature pickup heights.
Peace and Love,
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on August 24, 2010)
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First, there's no 'right' answer: It's subjective as the tone will change somewhat the closer or further away the pickup faces are from the strings, and whatever tone you like is what's right for you. There is no 'factory' height from Santa Rosa.
Having said that, aren't the strings hitting the pickups when you play that 'funk' style of yours?
No wonder you had to put padding under them, you must have been at the very end of the height screws' length!
This would add some noise from the contact of the strings on the pickup shells, and in general, even Series pickups will sound a bit 'hotter' the closer they get to the strings.
Generally, that's very close to the strings. On my PJ Elan the bridge J pickup is around a 1/4 clearance, the P pickup about twice that. On the BigRedBass with FatBoys, they are around the fat side of 1/2 clearance. With the exception of the P pickup, I run them equidistant under the B and the G strings. These are, incidentally, unfretted measurements.
The action is .20 nut height at the G, .25 nut height at the B, .012 relief, and 1/8 string height over the last fret, running a .45 to .128 string set. Basically straight, a little relief let back in to cure the buzz, and a slightly high nut (an Anthony Jackson suggestion).
It's important to think of your setup in numerical values, once you find what's right for you. Then you can always adjust to those numbers when you change to different strings, the weather changes, it's been in the case for months, etc.
From a noise standpoint, I would not run mine that high, and I wouldn't want to scratch up the pickup shells, but that's me. You certainly will not lose any gain running them lower with the trim pots to compensate, but again, it's all up to you.
I like mine to play easily, stay in tune, and be quiet. If they can't do all three, out they go. Don't have that problem with Alembics, though . . . .
J o e y
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For me, the pickups are as high as they go. I fret the E and G strings at the 24th, then adjust the pickup height and angle to where the vibrating string doesn't choke out on either pickup shell.
The AXY/MXY (humcancelling) pickups sound much hotter close up to the string, there may be a different effect with SC (single coil) pickups.
There are two pictures of the action over the pickups near the end of the Showcase thread for my Spoiler (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=8944).
(Message edited by adriaan on August 25, 2010)
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Oh, and . . . Of course you can run the pickups parallel to the strings, tilt them forward or backward, tilt them up on the bass side or the treble side, it's all up to you.
In an effort to not introduce too many variables for my feeble mind, I run mine the same distance below the B and the G, and parallel to the strings, once the height has reached the best compromise of height and tone for me. Then I set the relative gains with the trim pots, and I'm done. Alembic's practice of the neck pickup being so far forward and the bridge pickup being right at the bridge generally means you're going to have to turn up the back pickup some to get an even blend for most people, but this placement guarantees a big spread in tone between the two.
I prefer to do these tonal/height/gain adjustments with new strings . . . played-in strings often go dead on one or two strings rather than the whole set, and that can skew what you're hearing.
There, now I think that's everything . . .
J o e y
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I just set it so it sounds good..I may get my vernier out and measure but that is far to anoraky for me!
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Terry; in my humble opinion, any measurement of an open string is pretty pointless anyway. The height of any string from the pup is going to change depending on a number of factors, not least of which includes where the string is fretted, how bowed the neck is and how you prefer your action. As better folk than me have said, set it where you like it, leave it alone and enjoy playing it.
Graeme
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One can get far to critical over stuff like that!
Someone once asked the late Bernard Edwards(Chic) what strings he used, his reply was the ones that came with the bass!
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Personally, I never allow my pickups to hit against the strings. Notice my fretboard is higher... That's my signature
My pickups are as clean as I bought them (no string rash).
Even as low as my neck pickups are, before the solution of using plumbers tape, the screws would become lessened.
When I slam the FUNK, I like the stings to bounce freely and echo to another sonic dimension.
So from a FUNK perspective, the last thing I want is my pickup casings, to interfere with my FUNK waves -- Man I can't have that...Cat Daddy.
Peace and Love,
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on August 25, 2010)
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Jack,
There you go again rushing to judgment...
I simply asked the measurement of the space, not any debates of what or why of any significances. I am sure everybody has their taste, and preferences just like we prefer different basses (and people show them when asked (sometimes)...). I was interested in knowing those tastes based upon the measurements people prefer, nothing else.
There are no right or wrong way. There might be a preference somebody else might try (which is what sharing is all about).
I believe it would be difficult for me, or anyone to draw any conclusions from just this simple request., for there are variables of multiplicity dimensions, relative categorical areas one could choose to infer. However without starting out with an initial hypothesis, I don't think it's possible to conclude as you did.
I simply shared my measurements freely, as a brother of the club. There are no right and wrong.
Peace and Love,
(A man's pride shall bring him low: but honor shall uphold the humble in spirit. 29:23)
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on August 25, 2010)
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Hal.
In your opening post you ask...
For optimum performance of your pickups, what are the optimum height space, in distances in millimeters (space) between your E string, and pickup surfaces?
I'm simply pointing out that the distance is going to change depending on where you're fretting, how the neck is bowed etc.
Perhaps a more meaningful measurement might be the distance when you're fretting at the 12th fret. I'd be interested to know what you're planning to use all this information for once you've collected it.
Graeme
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Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
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the Funk!!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZH2-rTp8Ug&feature=player_embedded# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZH2-rTp8Ug&feature=player_embedded#)!
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Thank GOD for Larry Graham!
Peace and Love,
Hal-
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Jeeze...where and who taught him!!!
very Alain Caron style..looks like a Status 6'er
Toma_hawk...are you kicking the kids playing 'cos he is better than Larry Graham?? if you are shame on you..we need kids like this to keep the art alive.
Again where on earth did he learn to do that at such a young age?? Astounding!!!
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Terry that's absolutely absurd, and would be completely out of my character to imply such meaning from your assertions with such very few words I used.
First of all...
The young child is awesome, and it puts a deep joy in my heart (even above your wildest imagination...) on how proud I was to listen to this child whale, and control his bass using slap, pop, and thumping techniques invented by Larry Graham.
Again, I say Thank GOD for Larry Graham, because POP, SLAP, and Thump was his gift to the world of bass players FOR FREE, and yes future bassist too.
If you thump your bass... Larry Graham
If you Pop strings on your bass... Larry Graham
If you Slap your strings, on your bass... Larry Graham.
If you turn on your lights, not Larry Graham, thank GOD for Thomas Edison for this...LOL!
FUNK LIVES ON TO THE NEXT GENERATION!
Makes sense this time?
Peace and Love,
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on August 26, 2010)
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Nice playing, there shows the clear benefits of learning an instrument young. Can you imagine what music will be coming from him when he reaches maturity on that instrument.
I'll certainly be watching out for his music in the future.
Jazzyvee
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I'm sure you've seen this, but I just totally love this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq8VZDz5lEc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq8VZDz5lEc)
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Yo, Hal. Just a friendly correction. Thump, Pop, and Slap ALL come from the Jazz era 40-50 years before Larry started playing. Even for the Electric bass this was not new. It just became popular, via Larry. Monk Montgomery did some of this in 1957 for Blue Note, with his brother Wes. But, I digress. The Early Jazz bass players used these techniques for various tones, Vibe, and feel. Also for Volume. Ask me how I know and I will introduce you to Albert, a 103yr old touring bass player who showed me his technique, when he was a young man of 90. In the days before pick-ups, when the big band was kickin', the bass was still heard!!!!!!!
Nick
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Now that I've gotta see.
But this is an interesting debate. You're talking about slapping an upright bass, right? Yeah, they slapped it. But to what extent are we talking about something unique to electric? Were they imitating a drum pattern? Isn't that the defining characteristic of slap funk?
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Nick , That slap double bass technique is really a trip . I have seen it live as well and it really makes the acoustic double bass project in a most amazing way. I have an old friend who can do it . I like hearing it in a walking style. Those kind of chops are the ones that are handed down the generations by players like your friend Albert. Very cool.
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More love, with knowledge. My mind is always open for correction my brother...
Yes, I understand during the 40's and 50's bass players would take their upright basses, and slap them like a drum, and or pull the strings hard; literally dance; and twirl their basses on its axes while playing swing, jazz, and 1950's Rock n Roll (similar to the 80's band bassist Lee Rocker of the Stray Cats, did).
As history would unfold... the first electric bass was created by Leo Fender, and patented in 1951 (right here in California, USA). So before 1951, the upright bass was all there were.
It's interesting to note, the Fender Statocaster was created after his electric bass, in 1954 and later the Telecaster in 1955.
(How much is a 1953 Strat worth?) $0.00
Leo Fender would select Monk Montgomery to first play his new bass invention, called the Fender P.
This is true.
Yes, I agree...
Monk Montgomery did play the electric bass in ways known just now crafted by commercially famous artist., and I was made aware, his brother Les Montgomery, also done some innovative, and interesting things with the bass too.
The Montgomery Brother played the bass as a lead instrument decades before Stanley Clarke.
I too have family elders, who inspired me with tons of facts which are held true. Monk did pop the strings with Leo's basses and you can hear it in his recordings, but he used a pick, thus it was too premature to define the sound, for it was more subtle, smoother, melodic, jazzy and frankly, not funky at all.
Larry Graham, bass was flamboyant, powerful, strong, physical, and FUNKY ER and was first pioneer of what a FUNK would follow.
The child in the video, I say proudly is the next generation, if he continues playing.
Peace and Love,
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on August 26, 2010)
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So, I've been looking around and found some nice examples. The one that I found that I like the best is this Cab Calloway song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D44pyeEvhcQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D44pyeEvhcQ)
This one is for you, Bill tgo.
Nick
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Fab.
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I wouldn't really compare upright slap to electric ( and I would also submit that the best examples of upright slap are in bluegrass ). anyway, off topic but have you guys heard Charnette Moffett slap with his bow on upright? kinda gimmicky, but its insane. I couldn't find a video of it but he's got a bunch on YouTube, so I'm sure theres one somewhere.
either way, I'd say as far as modern electric slap and funk bass in general goes, most of it is Larry Graham. IMHO.
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ha! found one!
this is with one of McCoy Tyner's bands from 2002
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwE49Vta2CY&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwE49Vta2CY&feature=related)
sidenote: eric harland is a beast.
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I can dig what the bass player is doing. I like it; it's fromPlanet New.
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That was great.
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...Albert, a 103yr old touring bass player who showed me his technique, when he was a young man of 90.
Buy that man a beer for me, would you?
And no, Leo Fender did not create the first electric bass, just the first commercially succesful one.
Peter
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Very interesting videos and thread. One thing I like about the little kid's playing is that he can groove too.
Sometimes you see people who can solo amazingly with one technique or another. Then the band comes in, it's time to get in the pocket, and the bass falls short. This kid is great as a soloist and in grooving with the band. Very mature player even if you don't consider his age.
Rich
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Does anyone care to share their pickup settings?
Or is this an invasion of privacy,
of your most acclaimed methods, due to
weather conditions, moisture content,
atmospheric pressures, and so many variation for a simple ruler or measuring tape to capture?
Peace and Love,
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on August 27, 2010)
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I would tend to agree with what bigredbass (J O E Y ) writes in his post #1480. It has to play easy , stay in tune and be quiet I need these specs in what ever string type& gauge and set-up parameters as well.
(Message edited by sonicus on August 27, 2010)
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Hey, Austin, thanks for the hint. This Moffett is very inspiring!
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no problem Mario. I'm not a big fan of his own music, but I dig his playing with McCoy. his dad was Charles Moffett, who played drums with Ornette ( hence the name Charnett, Charles+ornette). also a great player.
okay I'm done hijacking now. and too answer your question, hal, I don't pay much attention to the height on my pick ups. I just notice if it's bothering me, which it hasn't on any alembic I've owned.
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Does anyone care to share their pickup settings?
Or is this an invasion of privacy,
of your most acclaimed methods, due to
weather conditions, moisture content,
atmospheric pressures, and so many variation for a simple ruler or measuring tape to capture?
......aparently no one gives a shyt....so for Petes sake stop crying!
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A primordial gas from a million years, which finally caught winds to be smelled by the fastest turtle and slowest hare.
One persons trash, is another persons treasure.
Education is too expensive, ignorance cost even greater.
Peace and Love,
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on August 29, 2010)
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Huh?
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Long ago...in the days of the Funkapuss...
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I hate to point this out, but are you sure you were using a metric rule instead of an engineer's ruler when you measured the distance? A typical .105 E string is 2.7mm in diameter; even a super light E is .080 is 2mm (that would be an A-string for me). The gap looks to be at least 3x the string diameter, which means you're talking about a 6-8mm gap at the bridge pickup. That would be between 0.25-0.33, just about what other people have been saying and which would be a typical setup which this looks to be. There's no way the cap nuts on the saddle adjusters are 2mm in size either.
An engineering rule is marked off in 1/10th of an inch, so each mark is about 2.5mm.
I would think that 2mm clearance would be in the ballpark if were fretting at the 24th fret.
David Fung
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I re-adjusted my pickups heights, with string left constant.
4 mm = bridge millimeters (space) between my E string, and pickup surfaces.
4 mm = neck millimeters (space) between my E string, and pickup surfaces.
17 mm = bridge saddle height (from the base...).
2 mm = E string diameter.
If any of these numbers change, it might be time to adjust or replace something...
Peace and Love,
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on August 29, 2010)
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P/J Persuader
Bridge J=approx 1/4 from strings (that's as high as the screws will let me go)
Neck PJ=almost flush with body
(Message edited by slammin on August 30, 2010)
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I re-adjusted my pickups heights, with string left constant.
4 mm = bridge millimeters (space) between my E string, and pickup surfaces.
....etc, etc....
And do these measurements make the bass sound better? Play better? Just wondering as I've not adjusted my pickup heights since the basses arrived and they sound absolutely perfect to me.
Graeme
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Lucky you.
From the very start, I had to make adjustments with my pickups, because the pickup screws had a repeated tenancy, of loosening prematurely. At which point, I'd started looking for my own sweet-spot.
So in the end, I found the perfect adjustment, and as solution a of stronger thread grip holding my pickups, plumbers tape was used.
Now, that I have this information recorded, I can compare the changes over a given frequency of time (through the end of time...) .
Peace and Love,
Hal-
(Message edited by toma_hawk01 on August 30, 2010)
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As a result,
4mm = Pickup exposed protruding height from the body cavity.
4mm = Gap between Pickup and under the E string.
That's my sweet setting.
Now my fingers could curl even deeper pops and Grip the hips and move!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AISa-zCbb4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AISa-zCbb4)
- Tom Brown
Peace and Love,
Hal-
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Jacko, I am an inveterate, compulsive-straightening, knob-twisting fool: I can't leave well enough alone. Since I got caught up in this tweaking thing, I tried them so many different ways, once I got them right, I kept going. So I finally had to write down where they sounded right so I could get back there NEXT time I got a bright idea . . . . If you like them right where they are, you get to skip all my misadventures with tools !
Remember, my motto is Well, it was working just fine until I fixed it . . .
And Slammin, my Elan is basically the same way, it takes some altitude on the J if you want to be in the same output neighborhood as the P pickup. Mica says the P Activator is the loudest pickup they make; I think space/time actually bends around it. If the magnets were any stronger, I could just stick it to a metal light post and skip buying a guitar stand for it.
J o e y
(Message edited by bigredbass on August 30, 2010)
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Where is the FAQ on adjusting pickup height? I can't find it....
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Hugh
try going to -FAQ-Infomation Related to All Instruments-Owners Manual-Here in Daves post
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Found it -- thanks!
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Hugh; see also in the Must Reads section, .
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Great; thank you. If you'll recall, the last time we went through this I got confused about the meaning of upper and lower screws -- and again this time, for a moment there, I did it again! Sheezis...
I think I've actually got them set fairly well this time. It really does make a big difference.
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Never really thought about height. I just assumed that the basses came from the factory at the correct height to get the optimum performance. I have never had any issues.