Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: glocke on June 05, 2010, 05:23:30 AM
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Anyone here use a drum machine as part of their practice/writing process?
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A drum machine or even a metronome is a useful tool to instil a good sense of time .
A Click Track in the studio will instantly reveal this aspect of a player .
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yeah, ive always used a metronome....im just wondering if im missing out anything by not having a drum machine
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Not that I agree with him, but Jeff Berlin is VEHEMENTLY opposed to using a metronome. There were some pretty good threads over on TalkBass where he personally took part in a rather nasty debate on the subject. My recollection is that Berlin actually got banned from the site for a period of time!!! Jeff seemed to be someone who is... let's say never in doubt about his opinion!!!
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That's pretty funny. What was his argument?
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Check out these guys and their drum machine! Who needs a drummer anyway??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1ThSi1wbqU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1ThSi1wbqU)
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I've used a Roland TR-505 for years to practice with.
http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/505.php (http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/505.php)
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Apparently you are just supposed to have a perfect sense of timing ingrained in your DNA. It's your job as a bassist (and human-being) to express it!!! I concur with him that one should strive to develop your own internal metronome, but while you're waiting for that to happen... you do what need to do!!! But he doesn't allow his students to use one. I've never used any type of timing device (other than a drummer), but I WAS a drummer for several years prior to picking-up the bass.
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I've used an Alesis SR-16 for 10 years or so as a practice tool for odd meters. It's not meant to supplant a real drummer, though. But it sure takes up a lot less space and never drops a stick or breaks a bass drum head. The main difference between a metronome and a drum machine is that you can program stuff that actually inspires improvisation and helps you think like a drummer and see things more from their perspective.
Uh, but don't tell Jeff I said that; it'll just be our little secret...
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I use a good ole Roland R-5...I got it in 1989 and I've used it consistently to practice with (and occasionally record with) ever since.
One cool thing you can do to practice chops and timing with a d.m.: find the writing mode on your device, come up with some time signature, then randomly add bass drum and snare throughout the blank slots...play it back and try to nail the accents and groove on it for a while until the random/bizarro resultant rhythm starts sounding smooth and second nature. Then, delete it all and do it again with some other time signature.
Now that's what they call good clean fun.
[PS. I'm convinced this is how some Meshuggah and Soilent Green songs are originated....]
(Message edited by eligilam on June 05, 2010)
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The exception to where such devices might be in your way in my opinion is where one might play in Tempo Rubato; perhaps an expressive work of solo playing or other passages where one might speed up and slow down for the sake artistic expression .
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I've been using iDrum (http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/idrum/ target=_blank) for Mac - nice fairly intuitive interface, plus the newest version allows odd time signatures! But I don't use it to practice, more for sketching things out.
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I have a Roland 626 that I have used for years on my home recordings. I would always prefer the real thing, but this machine is quite nice, as it has individual outs for each drum.
Also, I believe Jeff Berlin was permanently banned from Talkbass. He is sort of a firebrand.
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Google Jeff Berlin Metronome and check-out the hits from TalkBass. He was using the handle cwazywabbit on one thread and his real name on another (you can see they were both banned). I just asked for some information on his 1 Week Intensive Course... I gotta meet this guy!!! Stratospheric arrogance aside, he IS an incredible player.
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I use the drum unit in my Zoom B1u, it too also has metronome click to keep you in time
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I find it hard to believe(but obviously true) that a professional musician would state that about timing devices ie metronome being opposed to because it should be inside you at birth.
Is this the same all skills?? can we get on a bike/car/motorcycle and safely control it, can you read and write without being taught?, do we need to develop interpersonal skills or is it with us at birth?
I think not.... but I don't want to start one of those controversial threads!
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I think Berlin just has a whole different approach to music... almost mathematical. He is fairly demeaning to those players who are more technique oriented (they are often not rooted in theory: HEY... you played a B# 32nd note and it should have been a B!!!). Whereas most of us went to the music store, bought a bass, and started learning Smoke on the Water, he is classically trained. If you play for as long and as intensely as he has, you probably DON'T need anything to keep you in time. But how about some acknowledgment for those not as fortunate? I'm seriously going to try and fit his 1 week course into my schedule. For some reason, I usually get along with people who have polarizing personalities.
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Good luck Mike1762!!
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I've also got an Alesis SR-16, although mine was sold under the Ion brand as part of an electronic drum kit (same unit, different label). For the price they're hard to go wrong with, and I really enjoy practicing with it.
(Message edited by hydrargyrum on June 07, 2010)
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I practiced with a metronoe for years as a kid taking piano lessons. I prefer playing with a drum machine as it's just not so dry, and BTW, we play with drummers !
In my case, while I had a fair 'innate' sense of time, after all that time with a metronome I was much better. On gigs I could tell instantly if we were dragging or rushing, for all the good it did me (none). I have pulled drummers around by the short and curlies at times.
I found that if the band as a whole let the time 'breathe' a little, it was exciting. If however, I'm on time and the drummer was behind, the keys were rushing, the pulse at the center was lost and it would never groove.
Jeff's idea is that a professional is a professional. Period, end of story. He's very opinionated, and somewhat angry. I admire big parts of the guy, but for some folks he takes all the fun out of it.
J o e y
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I pratice with my old Roland R-8 but on producing I use plug ins like EZ Drummer or any Sampler available
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Greg,
I grew up w/ the Alesis SR-16.... I actually think Kevin's Ion is slightly different, the old ones never had trigger inputs...
10 years ago I moved on to Reason which was revolutionary, as the sequencer was easier to tweak, plus I was able to slice live drum tracks that I had in Pro Tools and sample those!
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Mike,
There's actually a second box that came with the drum set that converts the signal from the pads to midi, which is then used to trigger the drum machine via the midi cable input(if I understand how everything works properly). Just from looking at the specs of the Alesis, it sure looks like the same thing, but I'm by no means any sort of expert.
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No Kev, not to doubt you, but I've seen the same plastic molding that belonged to the SR-16 as the brain of an electronic set a couple of years back. The only difference was the back panel had a bunch of trigger inputs for the pads in place of the aux outputs and Midi I/O/thru.... Even back then I was scratching my head because the original SR-16 was almost 20 years old at the time!!!
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How's this for an electronic drummer!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u02ATWhWV4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u02ATWhWV4&feature=related)
Is this the new future man?
Jazzyvee
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A picture is worth a thousand words . . .
(Message edited by hydrargyrum on June 24, 2010)
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So I found this picture of one that is identical to mine. You can see the other box below that I was describing.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/81797.jpg)
(Message edited by hydrargyrum on June 24, 2010)
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I have and use an Alesis SR-16. But I must say the owner's manual just plain sucks. I once tried to get it to play time signatures other than 4/4 and I failed. Perhaps this is a reflection of me, rather than the manual or equipment... but I'm not ready to go there yet.