Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: tmoney61092 on August 23, 2011, 11:58:27 AM
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So I just played my first gig in 3 years with a band I joined about 2 months ago. They kicked out their guitarist, my brother went being the bassist to the guitarist so I jumped in on bass. For most of the 2 months we spent writing all new songs because they wanted to change the sound. I fancy myself one of the better bassists in my city and like to show my skill like most musicians do and sometimes I get bored playing simple 1 note pieces(do enough of that at church!). Well the gig went really well and all the old fans loved the new songs/sound as well as some first time listeners except for 2 people. These 2 people came up to our singer and was telling him that they thought I was showing off too much. I found this extremely odd as usually comments like that are aimed more towards guitarists than bass players and it really threw me off. I was just wondering if anyone else has had something like this happen.
~Taylor
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Different strokes for different folkes. Some people do not like busy bass players such as Squire, Geddy Lee, Peter Cetera, McCartney etc. Just ask them to listen to a song with no real bass, and try dancing to that! As long as your band members are OK with it, and most of the crowd is, don't let some bass defficient people ruin your fun.
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All I can say is make sure that the part fits the song. Neil Pert would have sounded pretty awkward drumming with the Beatles, Van Halen would have been wrong for the Sex Pistols, and Victor Wooten would probably have been bored playing with Pink Floyd. If the rest of the band thinks it sounds good, then those folks probably just don't care for the sound of a technically strong bass player.
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Never happened to me! I don't have the skills, and I don't like living at the Clam Bar, so it's K.I.S.S. for me. But almost all my favorite players could be accused of overplaying, by somebody. Joke 'em if thay can't take a F@#%.
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Some of us bass players, me included are not good enough to over play or even go as far as showing off. hahahaha
It's challenging enough just to do the basic stuff.
Jazzyvee
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I pretty much approach every bass line with the mantra: What would Geddy do? The results are usually pretty darn busy. Folks at the gigs seem to really enjoy all the bass freneticism (especially fellow bassists).
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All I can say is make sure that the part fits the song.
This.
If you aren't serving the song what are you doing?
Note I'm not suggesting that the original poster isn't serving the song. Just agreeing with this statement as it is exceedingly important.
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A lot of times you hear the term solid bass player. These guys usualy play simple beats and remain in the pocket. And there is certainly nothing wrong with that and preferred by some bands.
If you've been playing for many years at times one can tend to over play! I find myself concentrating on not overplaying. But there is a time and place for the bassist to shine.
Just don't shine thruout the whole song. Usualy when a guitarist takes a lead I try to stay solid.
It's actually not an easy task!
Solid Bass Players are uaualy sought after and have little problems gettin gigs!
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Taylor -
I agree with a number of other posters in the thread - if you and your band finds what you're playing is appropriate, then it probably is. Hopefully, if it's not, they'll feel the freedom to tell you so. What the audience is saying is certainly a factor in you and the band judging appropriateness. It sounds like it was working for the audience too, except for a few old fans. If your presence causes the band to go somewhere new, and you're all onboard for that journey, how can that be wrong?
One other comment on the thread. Hydrargyrum said: and Victor Wooten would probably have been bored playing with Pink Floyd. Hmmm... Maybe, but I'll bet not. And I think Roger Waters would probably have a hard time sitting in with the Flecktones (too many happy songs, right?), but I bet he wouldn't be bored either.
Here's a better example - how about Steve Morse playing in Deep Purple? Yeah, I'm not quite sure how that happened (well, of course it's for the money) and what Steve Morse is thinking about as he waits for the next chord change to come up...
David Fung
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Unfortunately I was of the Mark King/Stanley Clarke mold which didn't go down too well early in my musical career..oh youth and it's problems, anyway I soon learnt that less is more and people were ringing me up for stand in's and to join temporarily.
It's nice to show off from time to time but the majority of the public/audience expect that from the guitarist, not the bass player or the drummer.
Jaco was fantastic, the best and so is Stan but then James Jamerson and Carol Kaye have showed that simple but melodic bass lines can be the most subtle and best musical lines that have been played.
I am all for progression but it really only appeals the the few who are interested.
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Just because you can do something doesn't necessarily mean you should... It's only natural to want to take your playing to places you've never brought it before, but as others here have pointed out there is a time and a place for everything.
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I'd always say to myself . . . . well, if YOU were any good, YOU'D be up here . . . .
J o e y
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If you need more challenge, try singing while playing bass!!!
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not only that but there are times you find yourself playing with cats that cant quite cut it and showing off comes out of frustration an it also sends a message to let them f*****s know they need more practice!
[moderator's edit: language]
(Message edited by artswork99 on August 24, 2011)
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What would Geddy do?
You made me spew coffee.
That's just about perfect.
Thanks for jump-starting my morning!
John
(Message edited by 811952 on August 24, 2011)
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I'd have to agree with the others and would add the term tastefully to the mix. I think those who mentioned what it adds to the tune got it right. Adding notes simply to see how many you can fit in to a passage (a la guitarist John McLaughlin) does little for me. On the other hand, tasteful passages (bass, guitar, or any other instrument for that matter) add to the experience.
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One other comment on the thread. Hydrargyrum said: and Victor Wooten would probably have been bored playing with Pink Floyd. Hmmm... Maybe, but I'll bet not. And I think Roger Waters would probably have a hard time sitting in with the Flecktones (too many happy songs, right?), but I bet he wouldn't be bored either.
Maybe not the best example, but I think my point is still valid. If you're doing your own thing while everyone else is doing something else, you're the one who is going to sound bad, no matter how talented you might be.
Scene: What kinds of music influenced you as a young musician?
Wooten: All the music that was on the radio in the mid-to-late ?60s: A lot of soul music, R&B, Motown, James Brown, Sly and the Family Stone. But because radio was so open, I would also hear Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, Pink Floyd. And then later on I got into jazz ? people like Jaco Pastorius, Chick Corea, Stanley Clarke.
Full article: http://missmollymack.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/interview-with-victor-wooten/ (http://missmollymack.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/interview-with-victor-wooten/)
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Thanks for everyones input, my band loves the basslines I play because it makes our sound kind of funky. And as I said everyone in the crowd loved what I played except for those 2 people! hahaha I would love to be able to approach all my parts with a what would geddy do? style but I don't have that kind of talent! We have a gig on Friday so we'll see what the people think this time!
~Taylor
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I think that most of the real pros have great taste and knows when to play and when not to! At least most of the bass players I know and admire know when to shut up! To play less notes for a real pro is not boring because they are all there for the music... it?s about sound, phrasing & taste. That?s why we are playing Alembic, to enjoy our sound.
The music normally tells you what to do. If its singer songwriter stuff you need to support the song and make the singer sound good! If you play Donna Lee with a Jazz combo in up-tempo and have a solo spot maybe its better to play more?.but it can still be enjoyable.
Everything that is good is good? less or more?.after that it?s a question of taste and what you personally like! I love all great music!
James Taylor, Paul McCartney, Stanley Clarke, Pink Floyd?.all good!!
J-O-S
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The name Jamerson came up... From the little I know about his lines, they were NOT simple. They just sounded right because they were so in the pocket. He chose some notes that were not right for the chord, yet they were perfect somehow. An example is the bass in Ain't That Peculiar. I just found this, it's cool: http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2010/02/15/aint-that-peculiar-just-the-bass-and-drums/ (http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2010/02/15/aint-that-peculiar-just-the-bass-and-drums/)
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I agree they were NOT simple. They just sounded right because they were so in the pocket.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard a song and thought the bass line was simple until I sat down and learned it!
A bass line performed right...including sustaining/mutting tecnique & placed properly & dynanmics!....
Well a seemingly simple bass line may not actually be so simple and as Charles said then add to that vocals and synchronized show steps and stopming effects when required.
A good bass player will make a...... lets say an advanced bass line.... sound simple!
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I like hearing what Jamerson was actually playing. He was fearless in his use of chords and arpeggios. For those not familiar with Standing in the Shadow of Motown, Bob Babbit (bass on Midnight Train to Georgia and lots of others) performed Jamerson's line from Bernadette mostly solo (and very accurately to the original) - for you cheapskates out there the 29 sec preview on Amazon is worth a listen to discern the beautiful stuff Jamerson was doing on the record.
Select Bernadette:
http://www.amazon.com/Standing-Shadows-Motown-Various-Artists/dp/B00021LPLA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1314329102&sr=8-3 (http://www.amazon.com/Standing-Shadows-Motown-Various-Artists/dp/B00021LPLA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1314329102&sr=8-3)
The CD itself is a fantastic Motown showcase and well worth buying.
As to critics from the crowd - most aren't qualified to judge your playing, some have an axe to grind (sometimes just to have an opinion at someone else's expense), and more important -- how is it that your singer is sharing all this with you? As to showing off, I've been accused of overplaying enough times to know I need to question myself periodically. But by and large, the better I know what I'm playing the more easily I can hear what sounds right to me. Beyond that - everybody's style is different.
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How does one tell if a bass line is simple? Sometimes you find a bass player who doesn't have any great skills (as in fancy chops and stuff) but can play in the pocket as if anyone can do it. (NOT!)
On the one!
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Okay what I meant about Jamerson/Kaye ie 'simple' was that they are not playing a million notes per bar at a light speed BPM.
Or slapping, tapping, two handed fretting either, but I agree with all that as long as you get the groove and fit the song that is the best way to get more work and please the band.
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Yeah, Jamerson didn't play a million notes/second, but he WAS pretty fast for a guy who used to pluck with only one finger (The Hook)!
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Yeah, Jamerson didn't play a million notes/second, but he WAS pretty fast for a guy who used to pluck with only one finger (The Hook)!
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Jamerson was not only fast, but incredibly precise with that single finger technique. Add to that, the fact that there wasn't another James Jamerson preceding him for him to learn from and you begin to appreciate his original creativity.
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I sing and play bass - and like to make a lot of the bass lines to the covers we play better. That is - my own opinion on how it can be improved. Often, when it comes to learning new songs I dont even listen to the original...I just go with the bass line that I feel is right.
Does this sound strange to anyone? It seems perfectly natural to me. Its what being a musician is all about to me - my interpretation.
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Sometimes if it's a song I've heard I'll try to do the original bass line. If it's a song I'm unfamiliar with, I'll ask everybody what kind of groove it is and go from there. I'm always open to suggestion, since I do like being invited back.
I'm sure I play too much for some situations, but when we're playing I am reliably told to cut loose and have fun so I generally do so. And of course, if the song needs it I'll play diamonds.
Three examples of a recent gig (I posted one in my gigs thread):
Busy:
http://youtu.be/yvSubirAQP4 (http://youtu.be/yvSubirAQP4)
Less busy:
http://youtu.be/UZbb447AbTU (http://youtu.be/UZbb447AbTU)
Laid back and simple:
http://youtu.be/yUCrtR1hCAs (http://youtu.be/yUCrtR1hCAs)
Yeah, I might put too many notes in there, but it's sure not showing off to anyone. It's just me enjoying the music. I don't get many complaints, even though I probably horrify a lot of people. I would think of two people in an otherwise happy crowd complaining as an anomaly.
John
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Rocco Prestia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puY2_cRLMbQ). Personally I never thought he played too many notes.
Keith
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Yes! Rocco Prestia ! I have spend hours and hours listening and watching his technique and have definitely learned something from my efforts. His articulation ,timing ,muting , so many aspects of his playing. Phil Lesh . Jack Casady, Rocco Prestia, Jaco Pastorius ,John Entwistle , Stanley Clarke , Michael Manring, Mark Egan have all been known to play : Lots of Notes ,but they don't step on any toes doing it ! Some folks thought Mozart wrote 'Too many notes in his compositions ! Take a listen to the Composer Johann Sebastian Bach and tell him too many notes ! Perhaps he would have looked at you and thought 'Yes my friend , lots of notes , for your benefit and mine , for humanity hand in hand and the love of creation and a higher power It was his job and it took the amount of notes that he used to express his LOVE and compassion ! ( my editorial comment , just thinking my friends )
Sonic Regards , play the notes but don't step on any toes !
Wolf ______
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Rocco is about as funky as they come. Love his playing. I get to play what is hip? with a horn band in Kentucky in a few weeks, and it will totally kick my butt. How he can do that for two tunes in a row is beyond me, and of course he makes it look so easy..
John
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I feel like my hands fall off when I try to emulate the Rocco style. I was never any good at disciplined technique (sheepish).
Mike
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Rocco...well that is just another level..fingerstyle at it's most funky