Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: lbpesq on January 09, 2013, 11:02:37 AM
-
So I'm sitting here at work listening to the Grateful Dead channel on sirius/XM radio and they are playing a show from 11/14/71 in Ft. Worth Texas. MY GOD Phil's tone is just AMAZING!!!!! Totally blows me away! Clear and distinct in the mix. Much preferable (at least to me) to the almost subsonic tone of later years. I HAD to post this! I assume he's playing The Godfather. Boy, did Alembic get that one right!
Bill, tgo
-
Oh, yes they did. Phil didn't hurt it any either.
-
It's even more astounding when you put that tone up against other 1971 bass recordings.
-
Oh yeah, I knew there was a reason I liked that guy! ;) Actually, I think there is a whole lesson in bass embedded in Phil Lesh...
-
Amen to that!
I remember first hearing that tone when someone played me Europe 72 back in my formative years... My high school rock band Mind did about 90% Grateful Dead. It was quite the schooling, listening so intently, trying to figure out the bass parts.... that tone seeped into my subconscious and I've been on a quest ever since. I understand tone mostly comes from your fingers and approach, but I'm finally trying to get Phil's bass from that era recreated... within my limited funds :-)
-
Well, Bill. I am hooked too. I bought Mikes stereo Starfire, and I am going to try to make it sound like that.
Here we go again!
-
Nick,
That was always my goal for it, but I never had the funds to complete the task... (sigh).
Good luck in the quest,
Mike
(Message edited by dadabass2001 on January 29, 2013)
-
Lesh and Casady were the first bassists whose tone(s) intrigued me. Their complex and distinctive tones were integral to the music they helped create because their innovative melodic basslines were able to stand out in the mix.
In the same way cranked amplifiers, fuzztones and overdrive pedals allowed guitarists to step out front as featured instrumentalists (largely replacing the sax), Lesh and Casady's landmark bass tones helped pave the way for bass players to become more than just producers of indistinct rhythmic thuds used to reinforce the drums.
-
I've always been blown away by his tone (and playing) through all these years.
This is what really boggles me - despite the various basses he has used, including the Modulus 6'ers, his tone has remained constant. You can sell it's in your fingers up to point. Widely disparate gear, and he still has the signature Leshness working.
I'd really like to know how he does that.
(Message edited by bassilisk on January 31, 2013)
-
We have all been here before http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/85333.html?1298407199 (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=1161)
And it is an interesting topic !
-
I've noticed that about a lot of other bassists who have used a variety of equipment through the years but still have that distinctive tone. One who comes to mind is Peter Cetera who was a pretty darn good bassist for Chicago until he started writing and singing nothing but ballads for the lovesick. His tone remained the same even though at various points he used an EB-3, other Gibson basses, and a Fender Precision or Jazz bass. Tends to reinforce the idea that its the fingers and technique that produce the sound as much as the equipment.
-
Re: fingers - yes, they are a part of the tone equation:
Ears, head, heart and vision to fingers to fingerboard, pickups, cord, amp and cab to PA / room or to preferred method of recording.
IMO, all great players have a very clear vision of how they want to sound and they manipulate the gear they use (or are forced to use) to achieve it.
That having been said, Phil's tone was entirely different in the early days of the Dead when he used a Fender Precision through Fender amps, as was Jack's tone with his Jazz Bass prior to discovering the Versatone amp.
And - I believe we could all agree that both of them achieved their most distinctive and arguably best tones after interacting with the wizards of Alembic.
Why?
Did the excitement of finding a piece of gear that allowed them to hear the tone that that was in their head(s) spur a sudden burst of creativity or did it just allow them to feel more confident that they were doing what they THOUGHT they were doing?
For me, if my ears are telling me that something doesn't sound good, my fingers are going to hesitate to execute what's in my head / heart and creativity takes a back seat to frustration.
-
I don't ever recall Phil using a Precision. He had a Jazz for a while in the 60s. His first bass was an EB-0, though.
-
Re: Precision - I'm probably mistaken, I'm not much of an authority on early Dead gear. The pix I've seen are not real clear, but it looked like a Fender of some kind.
Regardless of what he used early on, my point was he sounded different after receiving his Alembic intervention.
And to my ear, something approximating that tone is the tone he has most often achieved since then, although he seems to have strayed a bit from that in recent years.
Same guy, same fingers, different tones.
I attribute the difference to the influence of the gear he has used and is currently using.
-
Or to the influence of what could be hundreds of other things including changed (some might say improved, but I won't) recording techniques, playback technology (once again I won't claim an improvement here), different acoustics in live venues (this is one thing that has certainly improved over the old days), and Phil's 70+ year old hands, head, and ears.
-
Double P Bass Doug Irwin neck through (http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/149533.jpg)
-
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/149536.jpg)
-
I always thought Phils Erwin sounded like crap. But that's just me.
-
That's not just you. I think it's true and I wouldn't be surprised if he might agree.
-
Doug Irwin lent me one of his Irwin Bass's to try out at a gig once with the option of purchase. The one that he lent me had HI-A ( early bartolini) pickups) It was a coffee house gig so I seriously needed to keep my dynamics in check and as a result was not able to really do all I would have done at a louder gig, I took it to a jam later and was abel to push it a little harder .The one I had was a nice instrument , response wise and the Hi-A 's were OK, but NOT Alembic . I ended not keeping it. In retrospect perhaps ; I should have purchased it and gotten Alembic Pickups and electronics, however as I recall at the time Alembic Activators did not exist yet . I do know someone who has an Irwin Bass with Alembic Series I pickups and electronics and that bass sounds great . I played it not that long ago. It has sliding pickups !
-
I'm not trying to knock Doug's basses in general. I just don't think that particular one was all that successful. I've gotten to check a few of his guitars and they've all been wonderful
-
Edwin,
I did not think that you were knocking them in general . I agree that one ( double p pickups) was the not best one in the batch sound wise.
Wolf