Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: 5a_quilt_top on March 20, 2013, 09:12:47 AM
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Just saw these on the Bass Place (Phoenix, AZ area) website. They have the limited edition series prototype:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/153877.jpg)
And #1 of the limited edition series:
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/153878.jpg)
They're both a bit pricey, but they are relatively rare. Both have the Bisonic Pickup. DISCLAIMER: I'm not affiliated with the store, but I thought someone in the club might be interested. I'd be interested if I didn't have two custom builds nearing completion with our hosts.
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I have seen these new models and they are good looking. Are you sure they come with Bi-sonic Pups? If I recall you can get replica Hagstroms from Hammon Engineering, but they are not stock on instruments.
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I have not seen either instrument in person, but according to the info on the Bass Place website, both of these instruments have the Bisonics. If in doubt, contact them to confirm.
Also, from the photos, it appears that the prototype has metal bridge saddles and does not have finger rests while the production model has wood bridge saddles and finger rests.
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I love Starfire's... I'm not really familiar with the newish ones (although very excited about the new Guild reissue announced recently). For me, I can't get beyond the change to the upper body/horns. It really takes away from the vintage vibe. Just my 2 cents.
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The upper body and horns does look more like an EB2. The bass in the big picture definitely doesn't have a Bisonic. It's hard to tell about the little one.
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So much for the accuracy of these reissues...sorry for the quality of the small photo - it's all they had on the site at the time.
Good thing you guys have an encyclopedic knowledge of these details - it's a huge help to novice Starfire enthusiasts such as myself.
Learning about these nuances enables us to avoid potential misrepresentations of the product. Good thing all my gear funds are tied up right now, or I might have gone for one of these.
I hope to acquire one eventually, but, to date, the timing hasn't been good.
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This is my early 60's Hagstrom Coronado IV with Bi-Sonics. Fred Hammon's were true aesthetic repro's but I believe he has ceased production. There are several makers that are currently making versions of them.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/154223.jpg)
(Message edited by bassilisk on March 22, 2013)
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Forgive my ignorance, but what is a bisonic pickup?
Jazzyvee
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It's a pickup that was developed by Hagstrom in the 60s and looks like the ones above, with a black plastic body and a chrome ring. There was a deal between Hagstrom and Guild to use them on Starfire and other basses back then (and also a marriage between the Dronge and Hagstrom family). They are single coil pickups, despite what looks like two rows of polepieces. When Rick Turner and Ron Wickersham ran tests on all the pickups they could find in the late 60s, the Bisonics were found to be the most wide range and flat frequency they could find, which was made even better when a buffer was built on the bottom of each pickup. This was one of the reasons that Starfires were chosen by Casady and Lesh back in the day. They were discontinued, I think, around 1970-71 and replaced by Guild humbuckers which were much more lackluster pickups.
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The picture of the production version (http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3792400866) on Guild's site seems to show more traditional upper bouts, and the p/up looks more Bi-Sonic. I e-mailed Guild to ask about the p/ups; will, of course report back when/if I get a reply.
Oh, and I think it was Ron & Bear who did the testing (I'd check, but Grateful Dead Gear is in the bathroom, and she's showering.)
Peter
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Right, I was kind of shooting in the dark, but I think you understand what I was getting at! :-) I do know it was Rick who came up with the two magnet thing as I bought extra magnets from him about 20 years ago after corresponding with him about the pickups.
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Edwin ,I found the Darling-Pair Emitter followers on ebay a few years ago and purchased a few ( Texas Instruments). I had the good fortune of being able to speak to Mr. Ron Wickersham about this at the last Alembic gathering.
In regards to adding magnet material ; I had a pair of Bisonics once that had too much magnet material added and the result was not conducive to permit the stings to sustain at their full potential. Some magnet hot rodding has a desirable effect but in the case of the pickups that I once had that were hot rodded : with extra magnet material by the previous owner and NOT Alembic this was the case it appears. I would like to add the buffers (Darlington - Pair Emitter follower) to experiment with it I ever find some more Bisonic pickups.
Wolf
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I'm getting ready to put a few up for sale soon, but they are all old and some have that horrible bi-sonic pickup no one wants.;-) A 1966sf1 bridge pu red, a 1965 red sf1(15th one ever made) a 1968 sf1 sunburst bridge pu, a 1970 sf2 sunburst and possibly a red 1990s Rhode Island reissue sf2. I haven't decided on who exactly is up for sale but probably all since double bass is taking over my life. Pm me I guess until I make it official and this goes in the f/s forum.....love me some starfires but why would guild put the bisonic in the cheaper imports and the lame assed humbuckers in those way expensive USA ones......? Bear
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Here in Colorado we're pretty proud of our version of a Bisonic Pickup. They have impressive upper bodies and horns, too. GO BUFFS!!
Rich
Thank you, Dave, for posting the pic.
(Message edited by richbass939 on March 23, 2013)
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Here's Rich's pic of a bisonic pickup ...
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/154342.jpg)
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Clearly the result of too much magnet material!
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Does that pickup have the old Alembic Hot Rod Kit installed?
Bill, tgo
(Message edited by lbpesq on March 23, 2013)
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I was the thinking that the bisonic pickup might be Hey, baby! Wanna check out my horns?
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I assume a bisonic pickup goes both ways.
hehehehe
Bill, tgo
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Good one Bill! The first time I saw Genesis Phil Collins introduced the band & he included Percy, the bisexual drum machine He explained the Percy was bisexual because he didn't care who he played with!
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Re: Bisonic Pickup -
I'd hate to have to handle the massive output from that rig...
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Curtis Novak makes a Bi-Sonic pickup that's hidden in an EB-O Mudbucker shell
http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/EB-BS.shtml (http://curtisnovak.com/pickups/EB-BS.shtml)
~Taylor
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Taylor , The Curtis Novak link is interesting !
Thanks __
Wolf
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Hello Peter
These pickups are the same as the originals, unfortunately I do not have any additional information available on them.
Matthew Hounslow
Fender Musical Instruments Corp.
Consumer Relations Dept
Oooookay..................
Peter
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Excellent work Peter! That is good news !
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Wow, this is so exciting! When these come out in the summer we can see just how the pickups compare to the other variations.
Hopefully these sell well and they make a few lefties next year :-)
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There are 2 different new Starfire basses. The one in the original post, is one of a limited run of around 20, I believe. They were built in Guilds\ Conn. plant and use N.O.S. Guild Humbuckers. The Newark Street line of basses are built in Korea, and the Bi-Sonic is neither a Hagstrom or a Dark Star, but a copy that was reverse engineered in Korea.
Jeff
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http://www.guildguitars.com/instruments/details/?partno=3792400866
link to the Newark Street model mentioned above.
here is how she sounds...
I can dig it, but for a little more $$$ you can buy vintage.
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I also asked about chances of a 2-p/up version; no response.
Peter
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QUESTION: What's the difference between a Bisonic and an R & B Band?
ANSWER: With the R & B band the asshole is up front and the horns are in the back. (fade in snare press roll followed by cymbal crash!)
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OK...that was rude...sorry! The second I hit 'POST' I realized I should have spelled one of the words a little more discretely...a#@*ole...something like that.
I looked for an 'EDIT POST' icon and found none.
My apologies...my hope is everyone can take it for the joke it was meant to be...nothing personal or pointed or said with anything but a hopeful smile!
Fact is I love old Guild and Hagstrom basses with Bisonic pickups. The newer Guilds are interesting and perplexing. I agree...why make the more expensive model with the 70's Guild humbucker that by all indications was not even close to the power, attitude, character and dynamics of a nice Bisonic.
The newer Guild 'Newark St Collection' version of the Starfire I seems to be very accurate and priced nicely. Do they really stand up to a nice old Guild Starfire of the same ilk...don't know.
I commend Fender/Guild for doing a great job on being as accurate as possible!
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No offense taken. I liked the joke! And you can edit posts for up to one hour after posting. Just click on the little pad and pencil icon on the upper right of each post.
Bill, tgo
(Message edited by lbpesq on May 10, 2013)
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Welcome, Chris; let's see some pix of that Coronado! (Love the II & the XII; never played the IV)
Peter
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I've just got a 90's reissue starfire II I,ve split the coils with a tap and the single coil sound is much brighter, stronger and fuller than the lacklustre humbucker sound. if your struggling with the humbucker its cheaper than getting a bisonic or darkstar
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also I reversed the pickups so that the powerful coil (one is weak the other strong on each pickup) is away from the neck and bridge picking up the more central harmonics and tapped that coil.
If you can use a screwdriver and a soldering iron its not hard, but the wax embedding can melt so you could perhaps short the coil if you aren't careful.
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Hello Peter , Welcome to the forum .
The mod that you describe is very clever. Congratulations on your success. Pictures of the coil taps would be interesting.
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The basic configuration is in the photo of the reverse of the pickup, the other photo shows the bass with the pickups reversed and coil taps in place. the 2 coils are each at 2kohms but each pickup has a week and strong magnet and the strong coil has a much bigger signal. the first drawing is of the standard config and the second is of the rewire. The pickup case is earthed separately, but this is probably not necessary. the switch is a 6 pole 2 position on/on switch to either include or exclude the second coil as parallel. I hope this helps bw Peter
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/163158.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/163159.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/163160.jpg)
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/449/163161.jpg)
(Message edited by davehouck on May 19, 2013)
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Yes , Peter .
This presentation is quite excellent ! I think that many people will benefit from your example . Thank you !
Wolf