Alembic Guitars Club
Connecting => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Glynn on November 25, 2015, 03:12:42 PM
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Any thoughts? Bergantino HD112 vs Barefaced Super Compact 12?
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I have no real information on which to base this, but I'd go for the Barefaced.
Personally, I might look at a Fearless F112, too.
Hopefully you'll get someone who will chime in who has personal experience with the cabinets!
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I don't have any experience with either of those cabinets but I can tell you my AccuGroove Wedgie with a 12/6/dual tweeter is the best sounding cabinet I have ever played through! It blows away my Eden stack with a 410 & 115. The response is incredible, I can hear the slightest adjustment on my filters or CVQ controls. It is amazing how much low end these small cabinets produce, & it handles my low B perfectly. It will handle 400 watts & only weighs 29 pounds. If you prefer a traditional box they make the same speaker setup in a rectangular cabinet as well
http://www.accugroovellc.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQiA4eqyBRDUh7Omv9vCtsoBEiQAspfs8s8cOhH2ftufguPr3HRZAydr-I25mDANJJJcgo3FLIgaAmo78P8HAQ# (http://www.accugroovellc.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQiA4eqyBRDUh7Omv9vCtsoBEiQAspfs8s8cOhH2ftufguPr3HRZAydr-I25mDANJJJcgo3FLIgaAmo78P8HAQ#)!wedgie/crn5
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Glynn,
I just purchased the Berg CN-212 and its a great sounding cab! The HD line is the ceramic magnet line and from what I understand people love them. I went with the CN neodymium magnet line because of the ~46 lbs weight. The CN-112 is ~26 lbs! The whole Bergantino line is greatly respected and now I concur.
TalkBass has 100's of informative (By TalkBass standards) comments on all the Berg lines.
Here's a good start.
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/bergantino-series-clarification.999190/ (http://www.talkbass.com/threads/bergantino-series-clarification.999190/)
I'm sure all the above would be great choices.
Best wishes its fun travels looking for the quest for sound!
Pete
(Message edited by flpete1uw on November 29, 2015)
(Message edited by flpete1uw on November 29, 2015)
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Thanks everyone, especially Pete. I actually have been using one HD112 for some time now (I bought two but only needed to use them both on a couple of gigs)and couple it with a GenzBenz Streamliner 900.
I love the sound but am always interested in what is out there.
Pete's link to TalkBass was just what I needed to basically back up the purchase. Your CN212 is exactly the same weight as my HD112 44lbs which seems to be the weight we have to carry. There seems to be a trade off for single neo cabs in that they come in at around 28lbs (CN112) but haven't the low-end punch of ceramic.
I guess you and I are both well suited to the cab we have chosen and a big vote for Bergs.
Glynn
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Cool! When you get to this level of cabs any of the above suggestions would work fine. I was looking for a 1 cab solution to handle what's been coming my way.
I'm thinking the CN-212's low end punch issues are a bit over stated except maybe when A/Bing the HD CN side by side. I'm finding if there is a issue my F2b / SF2 more than makes up for it.
Congrats!
Pete
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I need a stage rig like I need a hole in the head as I no longer play out, but I am very intrigued that Bag End is now offering their built-in power amps to virtually any and all of their cabinets, plus in the case of those type bins, also built-in INFRA (I wonder how this follow-on to ELF differs . . .). Then all you would need is your preamp and any outboard and you're done.
http://www.bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/PD10BX-D.pdf (http://www.bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/PD10BX-D.pdf)
http://www.bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IPS18E-D.pdf
Professional concert sound has gone this way (imagine the miles of speaker cable they no longer need), and it will be interesting to see if MI follows.
Joey
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Dag gum it Joey!
Nothing like links to Bag End equipment to give a guy a real bad case of GAS.
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They had one of these at the last Chicago gathering that was held at Bag End.
http://www.bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/bassault-r.pdf (http://www.bagend.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/bassault-r.pdf)
Keith
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I'm really happy with my Bergantino HD212. To date it's the cabinet that comes closest to the sound I hear in my head.
I typically run it with a Genz-Benz ShuttleMax 12.0, sometimes a Mesa Prodigy.
I think the Berg HD212 is a bit colored towards nice beefy lows and low mids, so it might not be ideal if you want flat response, or if you wanted super scooped slap sound. It's very musical, though. I use it at a blues jam for which I am cohost. I get to hear a lot of different basses through it, and it consistently sounds great.
I run my amps quite flat eq-wise, so what I hear is predominantly Bass + Cabinet.
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I have Neo drivers in both of my AccuGroove cabinets & they do not suffer from lack of punch or bottom end at all. In fact I had to cut the lows at my gig Saturday night using my Wedgie. A testament to the truly flat response these cabinets have is the fact that I can go from using my 3 way Wedgie with a 12/6/dual tweeter to my 4 way El Whappo with a 15/12/6/dual tweeter & not change my EQ settings at all. They both reproduce exactly what you put into them with no coloration, the difference being the El Whappo puts out much more sound, so I can use it at larger venues or outdoors without having to find my tone again. I set the gain level & I'm good to go!
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Rusty,
I'm beginning to think if a cab is designed to be flat it is considered to lack low end. My Mesa Walkabout Scout has a ton of low end but tends to get a bit muddy at times.
Like you I don't have any issues with low end and in fact I enjoy the even response I'm getting.
I'm not versed enough to opine on the Neo / Ceramic debate except that my back sure likes the Neo's!
Variety makes the World go round. It's nice to have such choices.
Pete
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Pete, I'm sure people have different definitions of what flat is, & I'm certainly no expert, I just know how incredibly responsive both of my AccuGroove cabinets are to the slightest adjustment. I can get any sound I want out of them & for the first time since I began playing 42 years ago, I finally have the tone I have always wanted. They are so crystal clear that I can actually play at lower volume in my band & still hear what I'm playing. We always talk about the amazing response range of our Alembics, but until you play one through a full range cabinet you are only getting part of the picture. When I first got my Series II Europa I actually thought there was something wrong with the CVQ controls because I couldn't tell much difference in the sound when I turned the knob playing through my Eden cabinets. But now I can hear a difference turning them 1/8 of a turn! It's really nice going from lifting my 95 pound Eden 410 cabinet to my 29 pound Wedgie that sounds MUCH better! :-)
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Once again: Once you break yourself of buying 'over the counter' bass rigs IF you find your Mesa/Ampeg/Eden/SWR et al somehow lacking, going to pro components reveals a new world. I was fool enough to play thru a 737 Avalon in a store once, and I still remember every second of it: I heard what Rusty hears.
Joey
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This is really good fun. I started the thread about Barefaced v Bergantino and it has ended up as an Accugroove v Bergantino and Neo v Ceramic.
I am not complaining, mind, and it does go to show that the quality of gear we all seem to have here will get a good sound anyway. It is down to what we all consider to be 'our'sound. I think this when achieved or nearly achieved gives us that extra comfort in our playing whereas the general public out there listening just hear bass mixed up with usually an over enthusiastically miked up bass drum (No - I am not stating another thread)
Take care all.
Glynn
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Sorry Glynn! Please forgive my enthusiasm for AccuGroove, but it was life changing when I got mine! It was like going from my Jazz Bass to my SCSD! So I sing the praises of their cabinets every chance I get!
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I agree with Rusty, I recently purchased a Wedgie (now an El Whappo on order), and the difference between Accugroove and my previous gear was immediately noticeable. I've gotten rid of all of my other cabs and really like the Accugroove cabs.
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From what I can find out Accugroove are yet to get dealers in the UK but are working on it so something to look forward to.
I have to say Rusty that I had a similar life changing moment when I discovered the GenzBenz Streamliner after years of upping and downing with Trace Elliot 12 band graphic equalizer sliders and still not getting the sound I wanted. Also MarkBass didn't do it for me. Glynn
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Funny how the Barefaced hasn't been mentioned.
Doooooh, ducking for cover!
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Glynn, AccuGroove mostly sells directly to the customer. I think they only have a couple of dealers here in the US. If you are interested call Mark Wright & he will build one for you.
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I just replaced my studio monitors with a Bag End setup (MM-8s plus a double 10 sub with the Infra processor, all powered by Adcom). It's pretty awesome.
I have to say that we have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to bass gear these days.
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Edwin , That is interesting . What were your previous studio monitors? When I was at Wally Heider Studios / @ 245 Hyde St. in San Francisco we had ALTEC 604's powered by McIntosh 275 's , that was in 1975. Studio Monitor Technology has changed for the better over the last multible decades. Coming from a Dinosaur from the audio world that is a GOOD progressive statement ! . In my current Setup I use JBL 4411's with low freqency BI amped GAUSS 4580's in infinate baffle cabs . Powered by Two Yamaha P-2200's . I still use a Crown VFX2A active cross over .When I include them I run My RTA to make it REAL . I am sure your BAG ENDS are Awesome , but mine are old and home brewed. Like homemade Viking Barley Wine from 90OAD , LOL ! The Gauss 4580's add a bit of coloaration but are usefull when monitoring bass DI at higher SPL.
Wolf now AKA Crusty old Dragon !
LOL !
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I'd like to throw one more item into this mix. I was going to get a Berg 112 and then, after a lot of research, decided to take a shot with this.
I purchased a Baer ML-112 without ever hearing one and have no regrets. I use it for smaller rooms and clubs where it performs flawlessly. Huge bottom with very smooth transition between the mids and highs - great definition throughout. Plus it only weighs 36 lbs.
I've used it with a Thunderfunk 550B, GK800RB and Mesa M-Pulse 600 with excellent results from each.
My MK Std sounds wonderful, as do all the rest.
Ultimately I'll get another and get rid of my Aguilar GS-212, adding it as necessary. Can't say enough about it. It is only available direct. Look up reviews - TB has a huge thread on them.
http://www.baeramps.com/cabs.html (http://www.baeramps.com/cabs.html)
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After a lot of reading and procrastinating about Barefaced, and still not had a proper play with one, i have decided to burst my bass budget on one of their generation 3 Big Twin II cabs ( 2x12 with a tweeter). I've had some good conversations with a couple of the guys there, read lots of users comments pro's and cons and it still seems to tick all the boxes for me. I did ask the question about the bottom end as i've read that the cabs are flat response 30Hz - 20kHz and isn't voiced like most other bass cabs and was comforted by their assurance that it will reproduce the bottom extremely well and cleanly if that's what you give it.
One of the big plus points is that it weighs 20lbs less than my mesa boogie 2x10!
It is on 30 day money back approval and I have a few gigs in that time to try it out.
We shall hear!
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Since I started the thread, I bought a Barefaced One 10 which I am using with my GenzBenz Streamliner 900 or Genzler Magellan 350. It is an amazing little cabinet with loads of bottom end and 7kg! Easily copes.
Still got my Berg HD112s for bigger gigs.
Looking forward to reports on bigger cabs although not needing to change anything anymore.
Glynn
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Yeah it was a good while ago this thread started Glynn. I have ordered and paid for it now so it should get here next week. i have a gig Thursday so hopefully it will arrive in time for that. Now I need to get rid of my mesa boogie bass cabs. Hopefully find time to photograph them this weekend and get rid. Probably keep the 2x10 for a while though as it's physically smaller and will get into my smart car. I may get one of the smaller BF cabs if I like this one and then i can be covered for big and smaller gigs. Sure looking forward to reporting back.
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Mine arrived yesterday Big twin II. I only had a short time to try it out but I will be taking to rehearsal room tonight so I should get a better idea of what it can do later. The Amp is a QSC2402 so should give me 700w with that 4ohm cab. I hope looks are decieving as it doesn't look like it will deliver 700w of clean bottom ended reggae bass at stage volume but we shall see.
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That's a nice-looking rig Jazzy... looking forward to your review. ;)
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Just got back from rehearsal with it. Actually it sounds fantastic. I took my mesa boogie walkabout head as i use that most for gigs so my ears kind of know what it does with mesa cabs.
Everything about the BF cab is cleaner than the Mesa boogie across the full range of my bass and definitely more hifi sounding and louder than the boogie for the same volume and eq setting on my amp. If i'd have turned my mesa cabs up to the same volume they would start complaining. It's not at the moment as warm sounding as the boogie gear and the lower mids on the boogie I would say has more punch and presence on the sound.
I didn't experience any harshness in the sound and used the filters on my Series I more closed than normal to keep the high end down although I may try the tweaking the crossover next time. It's early days yet and apparently speakers need time to loosen up but I've already put my 3 boogie cabs up on line for sale. Depending on what I get for the cabs I may get a Big Baby II cab for smaller gigs or to scare punters at larger gigs were there is no PA for the band.
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That is good to hear. Those aren't your boogie cabs, perchance, on the Bass Direct website?
Glynn
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Perhaps I should know this but which Alembic is it next to your Barefaced cab. It looks like my Orion 4 but with LOADS more knobs. It certainly is a beautiful instrument.
Glynn
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No my cabs are on ebay and a few facebook buy and sell groups.
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No my cabs are on ebay and a few facebook buy and sell groups.
Perhaps I should know this but which Alembic is it next to your Barefaced cab. It looks like my Orion 4 but with LOADS more knobs. It certainly is a beautiful instrument.
Glynn
Thanks Glynn, It’s a series II Europa.