Alembic Guitars Club
Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: terryc on October 06, 2009, 02:19:00 AM
-
Okay..it has been a while since I started a new thread.
Which is better or preferred, easy to play guitar/bass and a poor tone or the other way around.
Please don't answer both because everyone here has that!!
-
I don't understand: my Further is, by a massive margin, the nicest guitar I've ever played and therefore the easiest to play too. Needless to say, it doesn't suffer from poor tone.
Mark
-
Okay lets step back a bit...I am not considering Alembic instruments here..we all know they are excellent on both accounts
Imagine you are a beginner..which is best then from the thread title
-
Playability: if an experienced player would find it hard to play an instrument, what chance has a beginner?
-
I'd have to say playability first, then tone.
I have on more than one occasion modified a bass to improve tone. I have never, other than adjusting action, done anything to improve playability of a bass. I've improved tone by changing preamps, pickups, bridges.
For me, playability starts with neck profile and extends to balance, action and fret conditioning. Of those, I'd only feel comfortable adjusting action and maybe changing strap button position to adjust balance. Otherwise I'm talking to a luthier, or more realistically, looking for a bass that already has good playability.
Peace,
James
-
I've never NOT been able to get a good tone (maybe not the one I was looking for, but good nonetheless) out of pretty much any instrument through a combination of nice fresh strings and a decent amp, so I'll say playability.
On a (somewhat) related topic: I participated in an experiment where a guy used an American Jazz and a cheap knock-off strung-up with old round wounds, new round wounds, old flats, and new flats. My conclusion: I'll take nice fresh strings on a cheap instrument over dead strings on a good instrument any day (tone wise).
-
Some years back, I did a gig playing guitar with a singer and her husband. He had a really old Hondo Les Paul copy which an old dear from his church bought for him at a cost of ?10 from a second hand shop. I played it once and although the sound was not very good, the neck and feel of the guitar was perfect. Alas he wouldn't sell it.
I bought one of my Fender strats after putting my hand round the neck at the shop and that was enough for me. It now has Alembic pickups in it so I have a great tone too. However I've now taken it to my Luthier to get the neck re-profiled as it gets tiring on my hands when chopping reggae or calypso songs all night.
Jazzyvee.
-
For a beginner - playability.
For me - Alembic.
-
when i first laid hands on my alembic before buying it,it was strung with old Heavy-gauge flat wounds which almost made me not buy it cause it lacked that sparkly diamond Stanley sound so i convinced my self to get new round wounds & then play it and that TONE i was looking for came alive ........so i'm gonna go with Tone!
(Message edited by serialnumber12 on October 06, 2009)
-
It has to be playability, especially for a beginner. If someone doesn't have a playable instrument, many times it ruins the experience for the neophyte and they will lose interest, or at least that has been my experience in teaching new students.
As an old codger I can work my way around the playability factor. When thinking back it was easy to play in the beginning because my instruments were, while far from the best or even laughable in the tone department, fun to play.
There is also the hands factor, where you hear someone who plays beautifully yet the instrument they play on is to something that might make good firewood, but that comes with experience.
There is the philosophy taken from a Guy Clark song...I got an old guitar it won?t ever stay in tune, I like the way it sounds in a dark and empty room...
So many factors, but playability, or playing is the foundation. IMHO.
-
When I was 13, my parents gave me 2 months of weekly guitar classes & 6 months of a rental guitar for x-mas. It had action like a Dobro & was truly painful to play. I didn't practice & after the lessons didn't try to play for about 10 years, when a girlfriend gave me the one I mostly play now, 30 years later. I didn't know what tone was then; the fact that it no doubt sounded like crap was meaningless, and if it had sounded like a pre-war Martin, I still wouldn't have practiced. If that POS had been playable, however, maybe I would have stuck with it then. When my son decided he wanted to play, I bought him a Strat. He is now a pretty good picker. Playablity trumps tone hands down, esp. for a beginner.
Peter
-
I would agree that if you are trying to get a beginner to play and practice that playability might make it or break it as far as them sticking with it. I think tone is something that we work on after the fingers think they know what their doing, Alembic for me now.
-
I totally agree playability over tone. However, I bought my first bass a 79 4001 because I wanted to play like Geddy. I didnt even try other basses. I did briefly consider a jazz bass, for about 5 minutes. The 4001 just happened to be a fairly easy bass to play and it is hard not to get a great tone out of it.
Lucky for me, I learned afterward that many of my favourite players were also using the 4001, which was THE bass in the 70's. I still think they sound great.
I didnt care about either playability or tone, because I didnt even consider either one. It had to be a 4001.
Another point is that good playability offers good tone; there is no correlation going the other way. A bass that is easier to play makes you sound better. As someone mentioned it is easier to tweak tone than playability.
Colin
-
Hmmmm...if you have a bass that's really hard to play (such as with super high action), and you learn to play it well, then you could conceivably become an even better player in the long run.
Example: Bill Dickens actually trained himself to play on a bass with a towel stuck under the strings to make the action impossibly high...and then when he switched back to normal action, he was that much better.
So, I guess with that argument, I'd say tone.
-
I guess I'm a tone addict ...
My series one is definitely less comfortable to play (most notably in the first position) than my old Jazz but the tone has me hooked to the point of playing the Alembic almost exclusively.
-
I've bought instruments for both reasons. Depends on the instrument and other more ephemeral criteria..
John
-
Hi Kenn, welcome to the board!
-
I could say Playability at first shot, since I don't want to fight against my axe and the Tone you can always sculpt in the Amp's Eqs... But I must say that since I bought my Rogue I can't play anything else.
Ok, it also have a great playability, but Tone is really addictive. I was never satisfied with the sound I used to get when I played other brands. May be I could get happy with the sound at stage sometime, but never had full pleasure when I heard myself in front of the PA (or had to deal with its leakage). Many times I argued with the Sound Tech to get me out of mud... But, now?
Just joy!
So, nowadays I would say Tone first to make a choice and Playability then to discard options.
-
Looks like I created a decent thread here.
Here is a point...
Say you play in a band which does covers, cheesy covers and you are just doing it for the money(this is from experience I might add!!!)
To the audience who are drunk and only want to dance and sing along and the bass goes thru' the PA and you backline is lost..does the playability become more important now??
-
If it's a cheesy bar gig or an open mic I go for comfort and quick every time
-
If you put it that way, me too... This looks like the Gig you'll not want to take your most expensive and valuable basses.
-
Terry; if your audience is a bunch of drunks who only want to dance and sing along, then I'm guessing they're not going to care about the bassplayer's tone. You might, and maybe your bandmates might, but the drunks, I'm thinking no.
-
Dave, aren't those the gigs that you take a beater to? hahaha
Jazzyvee
-
Jazzyvee; nowadays, those are the gigs I avoid!
-
dave..the band that I was in earlier this year didn't care about my tone at all so in that respect I guess playability comes to the front.
I was in that band for the money only BUT NEVER AGAIN WILL I DO THAT.
The two bands I am in right now are great musicians and great people.
-
In 44 yrs of playing I've only had two situations where a band noticed my tone enough to say never get rid of THAT bass
The first was a first issue musicman stingray that I bought in the first few weeks of musicman production. (yes that was a while ago....)
The second was my present series I Alembic.
Unfortunately I did sell the musicman but had two others right after. Then I bought a first run G&L and I have four of them (they get good reviews from the band but not an unsolicited request to play exclusively)
There are amps that will make any bass sound good and then there are basses that will make any amp sound good. I find it best to have one of each!
-
Interesting question. I would've answered playability, but in my current band I use my old Rick, which is probably in some ways my least playable bass and has the highest action. However I've tried loads of other easier-playing basses (including my old Alembic)and they don't work the same in the band, so I think the band context and how the tone fits it is an important factor. It's no use having a great playing instrument if the sound doesn't fit the music you're playing (unless you're a soloist of course!).
-
Tone. All of my favourite basses including my series one, a 78 music man stingray, and a custom 6 string warwick thumb with ebony f/board are far to heavy to be considered comfortable although they are easy'ish to play. In contrast I also play a hollow body 60s teardrop maton lute bass that is very light, very easy to play, and fantastic for folk music - unfortunately it wouldn't hold down the solid grove you need when you have to lock in with an 'animal' drummer.
If your back can take it - go with tone every time.
-
Say you play in a band which does covers, cheesy covers and you are just doing it for the money(this is from experience I might add!!!)
To the audience who are drunk and only want to dance and sing along and the bass goes thru' the PA and you backline is lost..does the playability become more important now??
If I found myself in this situation, I would find another band to play with. Why bother showing up if your bass just gets lost in the mix and nobody can hear you?
But to answer your initial question,I prefer playability. You can always shape your tone but if the bass is difficult to play you will not enjoy it and will sound aweful.
-
Now that I have a selection of guitars & basses that are all very good in terms of playability, I tend to pick a guitar or bass for the sound I want for on a particular gig. Or sometimes I pick a particular one just because I haven't played if for a while.
Jazzyve
-
Maybe it's just me . . . depending what day it is, either I DON'T sound good and my tone sucks, on a great bass and amp, or I'm just NOT playing very well, despite the fact I set my own bass up myself and the playability is just fine.
And this is on the same bass and amp with all the knobs in the same place: Yesterday I was a hero, today I'm a zero ! ! And I've been playing for thirty years ! !
The eternal struggle . . . . playability and tone is all well and good, but some days it just doesn't matter if my head and hands aren't talking to each other.
-
I get frustrated at rehearsal rooms where the equipment is of very basic quality and I can't get a sound from it that I can relate to.
Very often on gigs, my sound is better than my playing hahaha.
Jazzyvee
-
I think what Joey is refering to is the ghost in the machine!
JP
-
Oh, that is a point Jazzyvee!
I gave up using a rehearsal studio near home just because I couldn't get its boomny sounding room any longer. I started to hate the place and its stationary wave issues. There were days that I leave the place really frustrated (to not say pissed).
Now I got to get my car and go to another neighborhood, but I prefer that way much better... It is irritating having to play on a bad room. They gave you the impression that no effort you make is rewarded. Play is not a joy, joy is to hear music and there are places who seems to hates music (sorry, if I'm bitter today...).
-
My bass career started with Distillate bass.
Because my guess is Alembic tone first.
I was looking for other basses for playability.
After a quarter of a century, I got the answer.
Narrow neck 5st. Alembic basses satified both tone and playability for finger style, and Classic taper 4st. is comfortable for slapping.
I selected my other basses for the tone.
(Hamer 12st, Paul Reed Smith 4st FL, P-project Elec-Acoustic 6st etc...)
Eiji
-
As an individual who is somewhat limited with respect to the length of his fingers (okay...to be honest they are short and stubby) I'd have to go with playability. Having played for over thirty years I've found that the neck of a bass and its set-up make the difference between me sounding like an adequate bassist and a total hack. However, I can only respond on the basis of personal experience and it might be totally different for the person who can stretch those digits between the 1st and 7th frets with ease. In addition, recent years (as opposed to the distant past when I started playing) have seen the development of technology that allow just about any bassest with even the most basic amplification equipment to shape his or her tone to a much greater extent than in the past.
-
Since I've played my Alembic, it changed my concepts of what is playability and tone (and it is no Series).
-
Hi Brothers! Sound is always first. That?s why we are playing Alembic instruments. Playability is important too but sound is always first. If only playability matters why spend money to buy an Alembic?
Every bass player can play a great wedding gig with almost any bass and nobody will complain about the bass sound as long as the notes you play is about the right ones.
I play the Alembic bass because the instrument helps me as a musician to get the sound I like. The Alembic bass has a great wide bass sound with all the frequencies available and is the right tool for me to do the things I do. The Alembic bass sound also cuts through better than most basses in difficult situations, at least in my experience.
But of course, there are other great basses out there too???
J-O-S
-
When I went to buy my Rogue 5 I didn't even plug it in. I knew it would sound good. It's an Alembic. I wanted to know how it felt in my hands. It felt good and I took it home and when I plugged it in it did not disappoint....
JP
-
Funny, I had the same feeling when I met mine.
I knew it only could sound great just playing it unplugged. It sounded so good acousticaly - good as no other bass I'd already played before - that I was instantly grabbed by it.
I tried it plugged then and it sounded amazing on store's big stack. I didn't knew how to use the Filter or Switches, but all sounds that I'd got seemed usefull to me. So I took it home just to find out it sounds perfect on any gear I plug it.
Really love my Rogue. One of the best sounding Bass I've ever put my hands on and it is very confortable to play, too!